Exactly! Only 2 macs do not have firewire of some sort! The macbook air and the aluminum macbook. Where are all the firewire is a pro feature apologists!? Even for the slimness they could have found a way to make it work on the current aluminum macbooks.
I don't think it's the slimness that is preventing FW800 from the MB. After all the MBPs are the same thickness and they have FW800.
I am starting to think maybe I should skip this mini and buy a base white macbook for my htpc. I will be using an external firewire drive to store my media. In that application I don't know if I would notice a difference between firewire 800 versus 400. And with the macbook I would get a 13 monitor and a built in ups that can run it for 3+ hours and very portable when needed. However, on the downside, I worry if that 2.0 ghz processor is fast enough for running all my hd media. I think this is a decent but underwhelming upgrade considering how fracking long it took.
Actually, as of today and in the UK, that's not accurate. The closest-equivalent Studio Hybrid (with not-so-good graphics, but twice the memory and HD space) costs £449 versus Apple's £499.
But, of course, you don't have to buy a Studio Hybrid. You can buy a Studio instead with a not-totally-lame case and better specs than Apple's £649 model for £379 (with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, rather than a 2.0GHz one). While paying a little bit more is fine, paying 71% more seems a little extreme.
I don't think it's the slimness that is preventing FW800 from the MB. After all the MBPs are the same thickness and they have FW800.
Hmmm... very true, making it even more ridiculous that my macbook does not have it. This happened to me with fw800 on the original macbook pros, I've got to stop being an early adopter, but damnit it's so hard!
That's shared memory. If you just add memory you can do the same thing. In fact I think OS/X does it automatically.
I'd get the base model but with 4GB and the 250GB drive. This is worth $849 in the Apple store.
The cheapest way to get 4GB / 320 is to start with the "high" model: $899.
I don't see any point in spending $150 on the 2.26GHz CPU. Too little performance difference and probably runs hotter. so more fan noise.
Within a few months, this machine will replace my current desktop Windows PC. The drive is now big enough for me to keep my current Windows installation in a VM. The machine is far smaller and quieter and I expect performance to be comparable on the VM, and better for native Mac apps.
You can buy 4GB (2x2GB 1066 DDR3 SODIMM) @ Crucial for $65:
If they're going to offer it with Front Row included (a good thing), they obviously want to further the idea of the mini used as a digital entertainment hub. They should lose Apple TV and let the mini cover both the entry computer and home entertainment markets with the production cost of a single unit. That means little without a built in HDMI port. I think it's performance limitations are a function of it's size. Keeping it small and quiet (which I'm guessing includes heat-related performance limits) make it attractive to put in an entertainment system. But they configure it so you have to buy an HDMI converter which isn't just another thing to buy, there's more to it than that. That won't get audio to your home theater set up so you have to ad another cable, probably with a Lft/Rt splitter to inputs on your A/V receiver. Just more wires in your cabinet.
Front Row has been in maintenence mode for a while. Apple has no intentions of offering the Mac mini as some sort of quasi HTPC. If consumers feel that $100 is expensive for a DVD player how is Apple going to convince them that $600 is a more suitable product choice. Hell that's more than people are spending on their HDTV. The cleanest setup is a media extender aka Apple TV with a bit of local storage and the ability to stream music video and photos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut
As it is, not so much; I'm a little underwhelmed.
That happens a lot when you take a product outside it's intended market. The mini is a computer it's not a home theatre device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking
How would you support the second drive inside though?
And is looks like I overreacted so I'll apologize. The new macmini comes with mini dvi to dvi, the original appleinsider article has adapters sold separately which is why I flipped. My bad.
Not a problem ..you kept your temper in check I figure any secondary drives will need some sort of 3rd party mount. We'll see if someone attempts this.
No display adapters in the box? Wow that is beyond pathetic. This is their entry level desktop, do you know how many people will buy it get home with their first ma and find they can't use it, they've gotta go back out to the store and buy a $30 dongle? Do they think doing this will get more people to buy the 24"? Those dongles don't cost them more than a few dollars to make, just throw one in for pete's sake.
That said even though I have a current gen macbook I actually want the new one, just because the mac mini g4 I've not relegated to being used with my tv is still my favourite mac. The thing is I literally don't need it!
Dude, you've got to read before you rant. It clearly says that you get a mini-DVI to DVI adapter in the box. Are your panties untwisting now?
I can't believe its taken Apple a year from the last too minor update to come up with this. How many Apple developers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Apple's marketing is less than optimal. They still refuse to target the HTPC market. Slightly bigger case, allow 3.5" hard drives, more storage for HTPC and lower price point for switchers.
Other than that, its an acceptable although not extraordinary minor update.
Inclusion of FW800 seems confusing, mostly with the conspicuous removal of firewire from the aluminum Macbook. That appears to have been a mistake.
I would have considered an updated Mini a year ago, but now my Macbook is getting old enough that I'd consider buying a new laptop and using my 3yr old Macbook as a HTPC. The new Mini doesn't offer anything special. The new aluminum Macbook with the higher price and lack of FW makes it harder to take the plunge. I like the 13" size but really like FW. In my extensive tests I get twice the speed with FW than USB.
The used market on eBay is interesting. Old Minis don't sell for much less than a new one. But an old Macbook with similar specs can be had for $550-600. That seems worth it to get a laptop for the price of a Mini. Thats probably the route I'll take.
So for $750 and a bit of labor you can beat the Apple prices substantially. Again, assuming the putty knife trick works here.
I'll be sitting patiently waiting for the first person to post pictures of their upgrade efforts!
I'm guessing that because they haven't mentioned anything about the casing, it will be practically identical internally. So with that in mind, how difficult was it to upgrade the previous model? Would I be able to put a 500GB drive in there?
I cannot believe everyone is so impressed with the update? It's a complete RIP OFF! No remote is included anymore and the prices here in the UK are waaaaay more expensive than the previous versions - they keep going UP - (£499 or £649).
I was going to replace, but I don't think i'll bother!
Catering to those that have over 400 Mac Minis' in a rendering farm is a colossal failure, but it's my fault for no longer being at Apple to make that point.
I'll also remind people that University Engineering and Graphics departments [Architecture and more] would be more than happy to buy a bunch of these, connect them to nice monitors and do Numerical Analysis, FEM/FEA/CAD/CAM on these little boxes, versus buying Mac Pros for 50 lab spots.
Yes, because the total number of mini's running in that role out numbers the consumer market sufficiently that Apple should cater to their needs.
This is like saying that Sony should have designed the PS3 differently so that supercomputer cluster users could be better served. What?
You can easily do NA/FEM/FEA/CAD/CAM on these little boxes vs Mac Pros. Just slooower but at a fraction of the cost.
Oh, and the 9400M chips support CUDA although the drivers do not appear to officially do so. However, on the nVidia forum an employee indicated that it's possible for the future.
"I got both the 9400M and the 9600M GT running on CUDA under Mac OS X. When I'm in "Better battery life" mode I can only see the 9400M but if switch to "High performance" and restart then I can see both when I do a device query."
And then we read:
"Nvidia plans to have full OpenCL support in CUDA-capable GPUs (including the 9400M) in the second quarter of this year, and it doesn't hide the link between that and its partnership with Apple. OpenCL will allow developers to write general-purpose apps that can run on both AMD and Nvidia graphics processors, as well as other devices like digital signal processors."
For the "budget" mini, the 9400M still works and is future proof at least as far as Snow Leopard and OpenCL is concerned. It also allows Apple to upgrade the alu Macbooks to the G110M and leave the white Macbook and Mini behind a step while having their entire lineup OpenCL/Snow Leopard ready.
The new GPUs are probably the next speed bump for the MB and MBPs along with Nahalem Mobile.
Today the mini lives in a sweet spot but it won't get the G110M or Nahalem for a long time IMHO.
Comments
Exactly! Only 2 macs do not have firewire of some sort! The macbook air and the aluminum macbook. Where are all the firewire is a pro feature apologists!? Even for the slimness they could have found a way to make it work on the current aluminum macbooks.
I don't think it's the slimness that is preventing FW800 from the MB. After all the MBPs are the same thickness and they have FW800.
Actually, as of today and in the UK, that's not accurate. The closest-equivalent Studio Hybrid (with not-so-good graphics, but twice the memory and HD space) costs £449 versus Apple's £499.
But, of course, you don't have to buy a Studio Hybrid. You can buy a Studio instead with a not-totally-lame case and better specs than Apple's £649 model for £379 (with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, rather than a 2.0GHz one). While paying a little bit more is fine, paying 71% more seems a little extreme.
I don't think it's the slimness that is preventing FW800 from the MB. After all the MBPs are the same thickness and they have FW800.
Hmmm... very true, making it even more ridiculous that my macbook does not have it. This happened to me with fw800 on the original macbook pros, I've got to stop being an early adopter, but damnit it's so hard!
No price change in US
Faster CPUs (2.26GHz replaces 2.0 GHz) Core 2 Duo
Bigger cache (3 MB replaces 2MB)
DDR3 RAM (replaces DDR2)
Faster bus (1066MHz replaces 667MHz)
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M chipset. Up to 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM (shared)
Bigger drive options up to 320GB OEM
DisplayPort option & dual-monitor I/O support
More USB 2.0 ports (5 ports replace 4 ports)
FireWire 800 (replaces FireWire 400) - Calm down, adapters & cables available!
802.11 a/b/g/n support (Previous mini supported only b/g)
More energy efficient (<13 watts)
No black plastics
No Blu-Ray optical
Apple didnt wait for the i7 "Bloomfield" CPUs
DisplayPort adapters not included
That's shared memory. If you just add memory you can do the same thing. In fact I think OS/X does it automatically.
I'd get the base model but with 4GB and the 250GB drive. This is worth $849 in the Apple store.
The cheapest way to get 4GB / 320 is to start with the "high" model: $899.
I don't see any point in spending $150 on the 2.26GHz CPU. Too little performance difference and probably runs hotter. so more fan noise.
Within a few months, this machine will replace my current desktop Windows PC. The drive is now big enough for me to keep my current Windows installation in a VM. The machine is far smaller and quieter and I expect performance to be comparable on the VM, and better for native Mac apps.
You can buy 4GB (2x2GB 1066 DDR3 SODIMM) @ Crucial for $65:
http://www.crucial.com/store/partspe...KIT25664BC1067
And, after a very quick search, a 320 MB 7200 RPM hard drive for $79
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136280
So for $750 and a bit of labor you can beat the Apple prices substantially. Again, assuming the putty knife trick works here.
If they're going to offer it with Front Row included (a good thing), they obviously want to further the idea of the mini used as a digital entertainment hub. They should lose Apple TV and let the mini cover both the entry computer and home entertainment markets with the production cost of a single unit. That means little without a built in HDMI port. I think it's performance limitations are a function of it's size. Keeping it small and quiet (which I'm guessing includes heat-related performance limits) make it attractive to put in an entertainment system. But they configure it so you have to buy an HDMI converter which isn't just another thing to buy, there's more to it than that. That won't get audio to your home theater set up so you have to ad another cable, probably with a Lft/Rt splitter to inputs on your A/V receiver. Just more wires in your cabinet.
Front Row has been in maintenence mode for a while. Apple has no intentions of offering the Mac mini as some sort of quasi HTPC. If consumers feel that $100 is expensive for a DVD player how is Apple going to convince them that $600 is a more suitable product choice. Hell that's more than people are spending on their HDTV. The cleanest setup is a media extender aka Apple TV with a bit of local storage and the ability to stream music video and photos.
As it is, not so much; I'm a little underwhelmed.
That happens a lot when you take a product outside it's intended market. The mini is a computer it's not a home theatre device.
How would you support the second drive inside though?
And is looks like I overreacted so I'll apologize. The new macmini comes with mini dvi to dvi, the original appleinsider article has adapters sold separately which is why I flipped. My bad.
Not a problem ..you kept your temper in check
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
Will this work to connect my FW400 drives, or do I need some kind of hub/converter?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
Yes. That will work. I have some Belkin cables and adapters too.
Will this work to connect my FW400 drives, or do I need some kind of hub/converter?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
That's it. All you need
No display adapters in the box? Wow that is beyond pathetic. This is their entry level desktop, do you know how many people will buy it get home with their first ma and find they can't use it, they've gotta go back out to the store and buy a $30 dongle? Do they think doing this will get more people to buy the 24"? Those dongles don't cost them more than a few dollars to make, just throw one in for pete's sake.
That said even though I have a current gen macbook I actually want the new one, just because the mac mini g4 I've not relegated to being used with my tv is still my favourite mac. The thing is I literally don't need it!
Dude, you've got to read before you rant. It clearly says that you get a mini-DVI to DVI adapter in the box. Are your panties untwisting now?
That's it. All you need
Great! Thanks. Time to buy now...
So much for the macmini pictures being fake!
I kinda believed it personally. Having said that, if they had put a "£649" price label on it I'd have been screaming fake! Bah... Bloody recession.
Apple's marketing is less than optimal. They still refuse to target the HTPC market. Slightly bigger case, allow 3.5" hard drives, more storage for HTPC and lower price point for switchers.
Other than that, its an acceptable although not extraordinary minor update.
Inclusion of FW800 seems confusing, mostly with the conspicuous removal of firewire from the aluminum Macbook. That appears to have been a mistake.
I would have considered an updated Mini a year ago, but now my Macbook is getting old enough that I'd consider buying a new laptop and using my 3yr old Macbook as a HTPC. The new Mini doesn't offer anything special. The new aluminum Macbook with the higher price and lack of FW makes it harder to take the plunge. I like the 13" size but really like FW. In my extensive tests I get twice the speed with FW than USB.
The used market on eBay is interesting. Old Minis don't sell for much less than a new one. But an old Macbook with similar specs can be had for $550-600. That seems worth it to get a laptop for the price of a Mini. Thats probably the route I'll take.
So for $750 and a bit of labor you can beat the Apple prices substantially. Again, assuming the putty knife trick works here.
I'll be sitting patiently waiting for the first person to post pictures of their upgrade efforts!
I'm guessing that because they haven't mentioned anything about the casing, it will be practically identical internally. So with that in mind, how difficult was it to upgrade the previous model? Would I be able to put a 500GB drive in there?
I cannot believe everyone is so impressed with the update? It's a complete RIP OFF! No remote is included anymore and the prices here in the UK are waaaaay more expensive than the previous versions - they keep going UP - (£499 or £649).
I was going to replace, but I don't think i'll bother!
:-(
D'oh! Another slam dunk from Apple. Entry level UK price rises by £109
...so it's not "our most affordable Mac"... that would be the last one.
I second!!
Is this the same as a TOSLINK connection?
That's shared memory. If you just add memory you can do the same thing. In fact I think OS/X does it automatically.
How does OS X know the maximum of the GPU's chipset?
For example. u buy the baseline 599 model with 128 allocation. when u add another gig of ram, how does it know to expand the GPU to 256-max?
Catering to those that have over 400 Mac Minis' in a rendering farm is a colossal failure, but it's my fault for no longer being at Apple to make that point.
I'll also remind people that University Engineering and Graphics departments [Architecture and more] would be more than happy to buy a bunch of these, connect them to nice monitors and do Numerical Analysis, FEM/FEA/CAD/CAM on these little boxes, versus buying Mac Pros for 50 lab spots.
Yes, because the total number of mini's running in that role out numbers the consumer market sufficiently that Apple should cater to their needs.
This is like saying that Sony should have designed the PS3 differently so that supercomputer cluster users could be better served. What?
You can easily do NA/FEM/FEA/CAD/CAM on these little boxes vs Mac Pros. Just slooower but at a fraction of the cost.
Oh, and the 9400M chips support CUDA although the drivers do not appear to officially do so. However, on the nVidia forum an employee indicated that it's possible for the future.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...3&#entry452393
and further down you can see:
"I got both the 9400M and the 9600M GT running on CUDA under Mac OS X. When I'm in "Better battery life" mode I can only see the 9400M but if switch to "High performance" and restart then I can see both when I do a device query."
And then we read:
"Nvidia plans to have full OpenCL support in CUDA-capable GPUs (including the 9400M) in the second quarter of this year, and it doesn't hide the link between that and its partnership with Apple. OpenCL will allow developers to write general-purpose apps that can run on both AMD and Nvidia graphics processors, as well as other devices like digital signal processors."
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/16268
Ars agrees:
"The notebook also uses NVIDIA's GeForce 9400M chipset with its integrated 16-core GPU, making the machine OpenCL-ready."
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...m-graphics.ars
For the "budget" mini, the 9400M still works and is future proof at least as far as Snow Leopard and OpenCL is concerned. It also allows Apple to upgrade the alu Macbooks to the G110M and leave the white Macbook and Mini behind a step while having their entire lineup OpenCL/Snow Leopard ready.
The new GPUs are probably the next speed bump for the MB and MBPs along with Nahalem Mobile.
Today the mini lives in a sweet spot but it won't get the G110M or Nahalem for a long time IMHO.