I went ahead and bought the 599 base, no upgrade to 2.26, instead i put the money towards:
- 4GB crucial memory from newegg: $52
- 6ft mini toslink cable from newegg. $9
- Mini-DVI to HDMI + 6ft HDMI cable amazon: $15
I was going to buy the WD 320gb 7200 drive, but i was going to see how performace was first. I have a 1TB external FW800 drive, see how that runs. I didnt buy the apple remote, I'm going to use my JB iPhone for a remote via PLEX (for now).
I'm hoping my ram upgrade will auto-allocate 256 (instead of 128) to the GPU
No matter how you look at it, it's underspecced as an HTPC, but it has a form factor perfect to be used as one.
I'm curious to know in what way you consider it underspec'd as an HTPC? I'm not necessarily arguing, but would like your perspective/reasoning.
From a software point. I'd agree. Merge the functionality of FrontRow and AppleTV for a better software solution.
From a hardware perspective, how much more power do you need for HTPC service? The only thing I can think of that it might not handle is very high bit-rate 1080p video, and on that I'll reserve judgement until someone tries it. As for storage space, even if they put the biggest 2.5" drive in they could, it still wouldn't be big enough and you'd need an external drive anyway. So why bother with a huge internal drive. It only needs to hand the OS and applications, all my content is going on a big Firewire drive regardless. The only other hardware nice-to-have would be a blu-ray player.
What else would you add/upgrade to make it properly spec'd?
Actually, as of today and in the UK, that's not accurate. The closest-equivalent Studio Hybrid (with not-so-good graphics, but twice the memory and HD space) costs £449 versus Apple's £499.
But, of course, you don't have to buy a Studio Hybrid. You can buy a Studio instead with a not-totally-lame case and better specs than Apple's £649 model for £379 (with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, rather than a 2.0GHz one). While paying a little bit more is fine, paying 71% more seems a little extreme.
The Mac mini is competitive with the Studio Hybrid. Apple simply has chosen not to compete in the cheaper category of the Studio.
(1) It almost seems that a lot of people assume there is a human right to have an Apple system at every price point. The implicit justification for this 'human right' might be that OS X (on Apple hardware) is so much better than Windows that it is not acceptable to deny those who cannot afford (or simply don't feel like spending as much for a computer) the Macs offered, the joy of using a Mac.
(2) Or the unsaid rationale is that if Apple does not offer anything in the lower price brackets, the will never achieve more than 15-30% of the market. And without that they will ultimately fail.
I just called my local Apple Store and asked about dual monitor support for the new Mini. They said that it does NOT support more than one monitor at a time.
There?s nothing quite like seeing your photos and movies on a big, beautiful display. Unless, of course, you add a second. Mac mini comes with both mini-DVI and Mini DisplayPort output ports, so you can connect up to two displays. Choose the beautiful, widescreen Apple LED Cinema Display or displays available from many third parties.
Their just getting started... Have friends in England selling everything they own, buying Euro's.
They are going from bad to worse. Europe is having all of the same problems as the USA, plus a couple trillion in bad loans to the former soviet republics.
I'm curious to know in what way you consider it underspec'd as an HTPC? I'm not necessarily arguing, but would like your perspective/reasoning.
From a software point. I'd agree. Merge the functionality of FrontRow and AppleTV for a better software solution.
From a hardware perspective, how much more power do you need for HTPC service? The only thing I can think of that it might not handle is very high bit-rate 1080p video, and on that I'll reserve judgement until someone tries it. As for storage space, even if they put the biggest 2.5" drive in they could, it still wouldn't be big enough and you'd need an external drive anyway. So why bother with a huge internal drive. It only needs to hand the OS and applications, all my content is going on a big Firewire drive regardless. The only other hardware nice-to-have would be a blu-ray player.
What else would you add/upgrade to make it properly spec'd?
I myself will have a firewire drive (FW800) and if needed, i have a mac pro on the gigabit network.
I just called my local Apple Store and asked about dual monitor support for the new Mini. They said that it does NOT support more than one monitor at a time.
Sad but true
That's weird. In the Feature page of Mac Mini, it reads, "There?s nothing quite like seeing your photos and movies on a big, beautiful display. Unless, of course, you add a second. Mac mini comes with both mini-DVI and Mini DisplayPort output ports, so you can connect up to two displays."
I take it that it does support two monitor at the same time, or not?
But, of course, you don't have to buy a Studio Hybrid. You can buy a Studio instead with a not-totally-lame case and better specs than Apple's £649 model for £379 (with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, rather than a 2.0GHz one). While paying a little bit more is fine, paying 71% more seems a little extreme.
It depends what you want. Also, the Dell Studio uses more power (it has a 350W power supply), so you probably get the full cost back in electricity bills within a year or two. Let's say each machine is running 12 hours a day, and draws half of maximum power on average (55 W for the mini and 175 W for the Studio). That's 1.44 kWh per day difference. Over two years that's 1,000 kWh. In the UK, electricity costs about 11 pence per kWh, so that's £110 right there.
Besides that, there is the little matter of software. You are getting iLife '09, not to mention OS/X Leopard.
I honestly don't see this as an overpriced product. It's certainly not underpriced though.
It depends what you want. Also, the Dell Studio uses more power (it has a 350W power supply), so you probably get the full cost back in electricity bills within a year or two. Let's say each machine is running 12 hours a day, and draws half of maximum power on average (55 W for the mini and 175 W for the Studio). That's 1.44 kWh per day difference. Over two years that's 1,000 kWh. In the UK, electricity costs about 11 pence per kWh, so that's £110 right there.
Besides that, there is the little matter of software. You are getting iLife '09, not to mention OS/X Leopard.
I honestly don't see this as an overpriced product. It's certainly not underpriced though.
missing the point about pricing.
US = same price point...better specs.
UK = 26% price increase...better specs.
it has nothing to do with currency.
When Apple was selling the base model to you guys at $599, they were selling the same model over here for £391.
Now, your price has stayed the same and ours has gone up massively.
same for the iMac...£799 to £949.
rubbish, APple, just rubbish. They ahve priced them over here as if they don't want to sell them.
How exactly do you come to that conclusion, when you have not referenced the exchange rate in your post? Compare exchange adjusted price at introduction for each model of mini, the price of the mini in the UK should have gone up 40% in the last year, or else Apple's margins are shrinking there.
I'm quite pleased with it. With the price hikes, the Mini looks to be Apple's best value product right now. The 9400M with OpenCL compatibility looks powerful enough for most things. Just throw in 4GB Ram and a 7200 rpm drive and it's a nice little desktop.
Hope this doesn't sound too stupid. Will Mac warehouses like MacMall ship to Britain or other foreign places? How would tax, shipping, etc., in general, affect the cost? Would this be viable vis-a-vis buying a Mac locally? Cheaper? Costlier?
I'm curious to know in what way you consider it underspec'd as an HTPC? I'm not necessarily arguing, but would like your perspective/reasoning.
From a personal perspective, a proper 3.5" HDD or dual 2.5" HDDs would have been nice. Real HDMI 1.3a with audio would also expand its potential as a no-fuss HTPC greatly. Blu Ray is obviously just a fantasy but it would certainly make it into my ultimate HTPC.
I would have pulled the trigger at the old UK price despite these missing features. However, at £499, it's just too expensive once you factor in the extras you'd need to buy.
I'm seriously considering building a Shuttle PC instead. For ~£500 I can get 4GB RAM, 1TB disk space, Blu-Ray, HDMI and all kinds of goodies. The only downside is Vista.
Jeez, the number of folks that use a HTPC...PC, Mac, whatever, EVEN on AVS Forum is miniscule. Apple has the Apple TV as their set top entry, not the mini.
I would love the speed and useability of the iTunes interface huge on my 47 inch TV so I can get the most of my A/V receiver for music and download the occasional TV show I miss, all in the place I want it most, my living room. I don't want it enough to pay $300 bucks for Apple TV which does that, and only that?no sale there. I don't want to invest in an HTPC for that purpose alone?no sale there either. However, let's say I'm on the edge about buying a new computer for the sake of needing a computer (which I am). Knowing that computer would make an excellent HTPC after it's served it's original purpose as a computer alone to get more life out of it?how is that a bad thing? Who wouldn't want that? Do ya think maybe HTPC might be more widly used if people had a computer that fits that bill a little better, say like the mini with an HDMI port? Do ya think Apple might increase video sales on iTunes that way? Call me crazy, but I think it might.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
It is Apple's entry level computer which is a SFF computer. As such, it seems to be better spec'd than the Dell Studio Hybrid which is $449 but for the Pentium Dual core. Not the C2D although it does come with 2GB standard.
Again, why not leverage the SFF further with an HDMI port?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
The top end Mini is over priced...and it's meant to be so the iMac looks great in comparison. But it's nothing a putty knife and newegg can't solve.
Uh, it doesn't make the iMac look great in comparison to me, and many others I might suspect. It just reiterates the fact that Apple STILL doesn't make the machine I REALLY want. One with the specs of the iMac and no monitor. I fail to see the logic in almost making the machine a great many people want and pricing it high enough they won't want it in hopes they'll pay even more for another machine that has something they don't want in the first place (built in glossy monitor). The smarter goal is to make computers people want at the price you are selling them, not deter them from buying one of your products in favor of another (how is that a good idea). Because (if you're Apple) you think you can make up for it in sales of the low-end version to people who will void their warranty with a putty knife in an effort to frankenstein parts into it from a 3rd party? I doubt that's Apple's intent. Heroic efforts to "crack" the case hardly fit the "user friendly?it just works" idea. Here's an idea. If you are selling an "entry" model which most read as more affordable; why not put a hinge on the lid and advertise that it's now designed with user more affordable upgradability in mind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
Or get an AppleTV and Boxee it. Or just use your PS3.
It's called, "added value" and it increases demand. It's an especially good thing when people are holding on to their cash with a death grip, like in times of recession.
Ever used the PS3 browser? It's functional at the basic level, but many features (some basic blogging functions for one) don't work. Ever tried to play your iTunes music through the PS3? Give it a shot and see what happens. The fact that I've already spent $500 on a PS3 is one reason the Apple TV at another $300 is not exactly appealing to me. Again, repurposing the mini later for no more than the cost of an HDMI cable would fill in the gap where the PS3 falls short. Are you starting to get the picture now? Again, added value sells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
Yes, a $599 C2D machine that can go to 4GB of ram and drive a 30" ACD is almost functional as a stopgap.
Well...hopefully drove a 30" ACD if the damn adapter doesn't suck but I digress. Dual 24" displays anyway. Hmmm...I wonder if two 4GB sticks might work. Not that I have a spare $700 to buy two sticks to try...
30" monitor on the new mini? You must have access to a different spec sheet than I saw. You have know idea of the type of work I'm talking about specific to me, yet you're emoticon-laughing as if you know the specs that suit my purpose better than I do? Interesting. I do some rather large animations and 3D work which I bring home sometimes. It isn't what I do exclusively, but I do I need to do it. For those times, there is no such thing as "fast enough"?if you've ever rendered something in 3D, you know what I'm talking about. You understand the concept of "stop-gap" don't you? It means, "in the mean time?temporary?until another set of circumstances occurs." That "$599 C2D, goes up to $799 with 4 gigs of RAM. So, yeah, I guess the idea paying $799 for a machine that is roughly the same processor speed as the one I already have but with less RAM, a less powerful video card, and a smaller hard drive is laughable as a stop gap?unless I can use it for something else when I get another computer. I don't think I'm alone as a designer in considering the leap-frog approach to upgrading computers. Many of us can't afford the top of the line each time we need a new computer so we start to alternate. We look for the least we can get by with spec-wise with one purchase, so we can afford to upgrade to more powerful technology sooner than if we'd blown a huge wad because newer technology is cheaper with regard to performance per dollar?this makes especially good sense in uncertain economic times. I know more than a few designers who find the low-end mini underspecced but would be interested in the top end mini if it were more reasonably priced. The iMac bump is appealing, unless you want a headless mac. Then your back to square one scratching your head trying to decide if you want to go super cheap (mini) and upgrade again as soon as possible, or go uber-Mac (pro) and be stuck with it longer than you want because you spent an arm an a leg on it. It's the age old Apple story they could have made less painful with this mini, either feature wise on the low-end, or better pricing at the top end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
If you can show me a significant HTPC market I might agree. Heck, and I have a half dozen old HTPC builds gathering dust in my basement. Futzing around trying to get Front Row to work seamlessly as a HTPC is really low on my list of things to do these days. Although I might try Understudy for kicks.
Otherwise, that's a mighty small boat you're in.
By "builds" are your referring to Macs? I'm not interested in "building" a Mac anything. That's one reason people go Mac, to forego that particular brand of pain. I agree, I'm not interesting in "futzing" with Front Row or anything else on any computer to get HTPC. That's why I suggest Apple put the dern HDMI on their mini. If Front Row works on Apple TV, it should work on the mini. If it doesn't work, than they shouldn't be pushing it on either. To reiterate, the HTPC aspect alone is not the deal, its' the fact that adding an attractive feature to a minimal bump in specs and overpricing at the top end goes at least some distance in tipping it from the "meh" category, to the "OK, I'll bite this time around" column.
From a personal perspective, a proper 3.5" HDD or dual 2.5" HDDs would have been nice. Real HDMI 1.3a with audio would also expand its potential as a no-fuss HTPC greatly. Blu Ray is obviously just a fantasy but it would certainly make it into my ultimate HTPC.
I would have pulled the trigger at the old UK price despite these missing features. However, at £499, it's just too expensive once you factor in the extras you'd need to buy.
I'm seriously considering building a Shuttle PC instead. For ~£500 I can get 4GB RAM, 1TB disk space, Blu-Ray, HDMI and all kinds of goodies. The only downside is Vista.
Although it's a bit of a pain, you could go the Hackint0sh route, but obviously would have to do a dual boot.
If you can show me a significant HTPC market I might agree. Heck, and I have a half dozen old HTPC builds gathering dust in my basement. Futzing around trying to get Front Row to work seamlessly as a HTPC is really low on my list of things to do these days. Although I might try Understudy for kicks.
Otherwise, that's a mighty small boat you're in.
By "builds" are your referring to Macs? I'm not interested in "building" a Mac anything. That's one reason people go Mac, to forego that particular brand of pain. I agree, I'm not interesting in "futzing" with Front Row or anything else on any computer to get HTPC. That's why I suggest Apple put the dern HDMI on their mini. If Front Row works on Apple TV, it should work on the mini. If it doesn't work, than they shouldn't be pushing it on either. To reiterate, the HTPC aspect alone is not the deal, its' the fact that adding an attractive feature to a minimal bump in specs and overpricing at the top end goes at least some distance in tipping it from the "meh" category, to the "OK, I'll bite this time around" column.
The low end Mini (reconfigured) 2.26 GHz : 120 GB is also $799..
Which would be the better buy?
Are there factors that would make one better than the other?
After market, I could always buy a larger external HDD but not a better processor.
I think the after market HDD would be better for less money
If this has been addressed, I apologize. I haven't had time to read all the posts.
If you REALLY need the 13% boost, then go with the low-end option w/ the CPU upgrade. Hard drives, you can shop around for much cheaper. I found a good 320 gb drive on newegg (faster than the 320 from apple) for $75-80 bucks.
OK, I know I'll be labeled a hater, but it's overpriced for the minimal bump. This "bump" really just puts the thing where it should already have been by now more or less, or they need more attractive pricing. Ya see, there's this little thing called a recession going on now that makes anemic electronics less desirable, "it's the economy stupid."
To make it worth the price Apple should have sweetened the deal IMO. Right now, the high-end maxed out is only slightly less than the low-end iMac but with no monitor. If they really wanted to basically sell the same machine tweaked a little, they should have thrown in more.
If they're going to offer it with Front Row included (a good thing), they obviously want to further the idea of the mini used as a digital entertainment hub. They should lose Apple TV and let the mini cover both the entry computer and home entertainment markets with the production cost of a single unit. That means little without a built in HDMI port. I think it's performance limitations are a function of it's size. Keeping it small and quiet (which I'm guessing includes heat-related performance limits) make it attractive to put in an entertainment system. But they configure it so you have to buy an HDMI converter which isn't just another thing to buy, there's more to it than that. That won't get audio to your home theater set up so you have to ad another cable, probably with a Lft/Rt splitter to inputs on your A/V receiver. Just more wires in your cabinet.
The typical home theater enthusiast has at least the A/V receiver, cable box, game console, maybe a DVR. Anyone building a system or adding new things to it wants it as close to "future proof" as possible and as few cables as possible—that means HDMI. HT equipment without HDMI is simply outdated. The remote is necessary to make it useful as part of an HT system, that should be included standard for all models as well. As a computer alone it just isn't that impressive considering it's present cost structure. The low-end should have 2 gigs RAM standard at the current start price. The high-end should have 4 gigs and/or the larger HD standard at the current start price. Those things would make me want to buy one. As it is, not so much; I'm a little underwhelmed.
If what you want is to run OSX and you have a monitor of recent vintage, exactly how many choices do you have?
I don't think Apple is unreasonable in asking roughly $1,000 Cdn. for a well-equiped mini.
From my perspective, the 9400 M, plus faster memory, plus the opportunity to bump up system RAM, translates to a machine that will make editing HD video considerably more pleasant than trying to do it on the mini I have now, which is a base model that has 1.83 Core 2 duo with a gig of RAM. That's 667 Mhz SDRAM, compared to the new version's 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM.
Updating to this machine in the next few months is a no-brainer. I can't even imagine going another route. The price is not, for me, a deal-breaker. Consider that to go to 2 gigs of RAM here in Canada, costs all of $60. Big deal. Going all the way to 4 gigs sets you back $180. Seems to me that's not much of a cost to take this machine up to the point where it can handle some serious work rather well. A few years ago, a top-of-the-line Apple running 4 gigs of RAM would have been prohibitively expensive.
Comments
- 4GB crucial memory from newegg: $52
- 6ft mini toslink cable from newegg. $9
- Mini-DVI to HDMI + 6ft HDMI cable amazon: $15
I was going to buy the WD 320gb 7200 drive, but i was going to see how performace was first. I have a 1TB external FW800 drive, see how that runs. I didnt buy the apple remote, I'm going to use my JB iPhone for a remote via PLEX (for now).
I'm hoping my ram upgrade will auto-allocate 256 (instead of 128) to the GPU
No matter how you look at it, it's underspecced as an HTPC, but it has a form factor perfect to be used as one.
I'm curious to know in what way you consider it underspec'd as an HTPC? I'm not necessarily arguing, but would like your perspective/reasoning.
From a software point. I'd agree. Merge the functionality of FrontRow and AppleTV for a better software solution.
From a hardware perspective, how much more power do you need for HTPC service? The only thing I can think of that it might not handle is very high bit-rate 1080p video, and on that I'll reserve judgement until someone tries it. As for storage space, even if they put the biggest 2.5" drive in they could, it still wouldn't be big enough and you'd need an external drive anyway. So why bother with a huge internal drive. It only needs to hand the OS and applications, all my content is going on a big Firewire drive regardless. The only other hardware nice-to-have would be a blu-ray player.
What else would you add/upgrade to make it properly spec'd?
Actually, as of today and in the UK, that's not accurate. The closest-equivalent Studio Hybrid (with not-so-good graphics, but twice the memory and HD space) costs £449 versus Apple's £499.
But, of course, you don't have to buy a Studio Hybrid. You can buy a Studio instead with a not-totally-lame case and better specs than Apple's £649 model for £379 (with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, rather than a 2.0GHz one). While paying a little bit more is fine, paying 71% more seems a little extreme.
The Mac mini is competitive with the Studio Hybrid. Apple simply has chosen not to compete in the cheaper category of the Studio.
(1) It almost seems that a lot of people assume there is a human right to have an Apple system at every price point. The implicit justification for this 'human right' might be that OS X (on Apple hardware) is so much better than Windows that it is not acceptable to deny those who cannot afford (or simply don't feel like spending as much for a computer) the Macs offered, the joy of using a Mac.
(2) Or the unsaid rationale is that if Apple does not offer anything in the lower price brackets, the will never achieve more than 15-30% of the market. And without that they will ultimately fail.
I just called my local Apple Store and asked about dual monitor support for the new Mini. They said that it does NOT support more than one monitor at a time.
Sad but true
From Mac mini - Features page:
There?s nothing quite like seeing your photos and movies on a big, beautiful display. Unless, of course, you add a second. Mac mini comes with both mini-DVI and Mini DisplayPort output ports, so you can connect up to two displays. Choose the beautiful, widescreen Apple LED Cinema Display or displays available from many third parties.
Their just getting started... Have friends in England selling everything they own, buying Euro's.
They are going from bad to worse. Europe is having all of the same problems as the USA, plus a couple trillion in bad loans to the former soviet republics.
Follow along here, try not to think so small. The mini is either under-specced or overpriced as a low-end computer.
Spend some time in the off-topic section of PLEX forums. You'll find guys running older Mac Mini's 1080p files stutter-free.
I'm curious to know in what way you consider it underspec'd as an HTPC? I'm not necessarily arguing, but would like your perspective/reasoning.
From a software point. I'd agree. Merge the functionality of FrontRow and AppleTV for a better software solution.
From a hardware perspective, how much more power do you need for HTPC service? The only thing I can think of that it might not handle is very high bit-rate 1080p video, and on that I'll reserve judgement until someone tries it. As for storage space, even if they put the biggest 2.5" drive in they could, it still wouldn't be big enough and you'd need an external drive anyway. So why bother with a huge internal drive. It only needs to hand the OS and applications, all my content is going on a big Firewire drive regardless. The only other hardware nice-to-have would be a blu-ray player.
What else would you add/upgrade to make it properly spec'd?
I myself will have a firewire drive (FW800) and if needed, i have a mac pro on the gigabit network.
I just called my local Apple Store and asked about dual monitor support for the new Mini. They said that it does NOT support more than one monitor at a time.
Sad but true
That's weird. In the Feature page of Mac Mini, it reads, "There?s nothing quite like seeing your photos and movies on a big, beautiful display. Unless, of course, you add a second. Mac mini comes with both mini-DVI and Mini DisplayPort output ports, so you can connect up to two displays."
I take it that it does support two monitor at the same time, or not?
But, of course, you don't have to buy a Studio Hybrid. You can buy a Studio instead with a not-totally-lame case and better specs than Apple's £649 model for £379 (with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, rather than a 2.0GHz one). While paying a little bit more is fine, paying 71% more seems a little extreme.
It depends what you want. Also, the Dell Studio uses more power (it has a 350W power supply), so you probably get the full cost back in electricity bills within a year or two. Let's say each machine is running 12 hours a day, and draws half of maximum power on average (55 W for the mini and 175 W for the Studio). That's 1.44 kWh per day difference. Over two years that's 1,000 kWh. In the UK, electricity costs about 11 pence per kWh, so that's £110 right there.
Besides that, there is the little matter of software. You are getting iLife '09, not to mention OS/X Leopard.
I honestly don't see this as an overpriced product. It's certainly not underpriced though.
It depends what you want. Also, the Dell Studio uses more power (it has a 350W power supply), so you probably get the full cost back in electricity bills within a year or two. Let's say each machine is running 12 hours a day, and draws half of maximum power on average (55 W for the mini and 175 W for the Studio). That's 1.44 kWh per day difference. Over two years that's 1,000 kWh. In the UK, electricity costs about 11 pence per kWh, so that's £110 right there.
Besides that, there is the little matter of software. You are getting iLife '09, not to mention OS/X Leopard.
I honestly don't see this as an overpriced product. It's certainly not underpriced though.
missing the point about pricing.
US = same price point...better specs.
UK = 26% price increase...better specs.
it has nothing to do with currency.
When Apple was selling the base model to you guys at $599, they were selling the same model over here for £391.
Now, your price has stayed the same and ours has gone up massively.
same for the iMac...£799 to £949.
rubbish, APple, just rubbish. They ahve priced them over here as if they don't want to sell them.
it has nothing to do with currency.
How exactly do you come to that conclusion, when you have not referenced the exchange rate in your post? Compare exchange adjusted price at introduction for each model of mini, the price of the mini in the UK should have gone up 40% in the last year, or else Apple's margins are shrinking there.
I'm quite pleased with it. With the price hikes, the Mini looks to be Apple's best value product right now. The 9400M with OpenCL compatibility looks powerful enough for most things. Just throw in 4GB Ram and a 7200 rpm drive and it's a nice little desktop.
Hope this doesn't sound too stupid. Will Mac warehouses like MacMall ship to Britain or other foreign places? How would tax, shipping, etc., in general, affect the cost? Would this be viable vis-a-vis buying a Mac locally? Cheaper? Costlier?
I'm curious to know in what way you consider it underspec'd as an HTPC? I'm not necessarily arguing, but would like your perspective/reasoning.
From a personal perspective, a proper 3.5" HDD or dual 2.5" HDDs would have been nice. Real HDMI 1.3a with audio would also expand its potential as a no-fuss HTPC greatly. Blu Ray is obviously just a fantasy but it would certainly make it into my ultimate HTPC.
I would have pulled the trigger at the old UK price despite these missing features. However, at £499, it's just too expensive once you factor in the extras you'd need to buy.
I'm seriously considering building a Shuttle PC instead. For ~£500 I can get 4GB RAM, 1TB disk space, Blu-Ray, HDMI and all kinds of goodies. The only downside is Vista.
Jeez, the number of folks that use a HTPC...PC, Mac, whatever, EVEN on AVS Forum is miniscule. Apple has the Apple TV as their set top entry, not the mini.
I would love the speed and useability of the iTunes interface huge on my 47 inch TV so I can get the most of my A/V receiver for music and download the occasional TV show I miss, all in the place I want it most, my living room. I don't want it enough to pay $300 bucks for Apple TV which does that, and only that?no sale there. I don't want to invest in an HTPC for that purpose alone?no sale there either. However, let's say I'm on the edge about buying a new computer for the sake of needing a computer (which I am). Knowing that computer would make an excellent HTPC after it's served it's original purpose as a computer alone to get more life out of it?how is that a bad thing? Who wouldn't want that? Do ya think maybe HTPC might be more widly used if people had a computer that fits that bill a little better, say like the mini with an HDMI port? Do ya think Apple might increase video sales on iTunes that way? Call me crazy, but I think it might.
It is Apple's entry level computer which is a SFF computer. As such, it seems to be better spec'd than the Dell Studio Hybrid which is $449 but for the Pentium Dual core. Not the C2D although it does come with 2GB standard.
Again, why not leverage the SFF further with an HDMI port?
The top end Mini is over priced...and it's meant to be so the iMac looks great in comparison. But it's nothing a putty knife and newegg can't solve.
Uh, it doesn't make the iMac look great in comparison to me, and many others I might suspect. It just reiterates the fact that Apple STILL doesn't make the machine I REALLY want. One with the specs of the iMac and no monitor. I fail to see the logic in almost making the machine a great many people want and pricing it high enough they won't want it in hopes they'll pay even more for another machine that has something they don't want in the first place (built in glossy monitor). The smarter goal is to make computers people want at the price you are selling them, not deter them from buying one of your products in favor of another (how is that a good idea). Because (if you're Apple) you think you can make up for it in sales of the low-end version to people who will void their warranty with a putty knife in an effort to frankenstein parts into it from a 3rd party? I doubt that's Apple's intent. Heroic efforts to "crack" the case hardly fit the "user friendly?it just works" idea. Here's an idea. If you are selling an "entry" model which most read as more affordable; why not put a hinge on the lid and advertise that it's now designed with user more affordable upgradability in mind?
Or get an AppleTV and Boxee it. Or just use your PS3.
It's called, "added value" and it increases demand. It's an especially good thing when people are holding on to their cash with a death grip, like in times of recession.
Ever used the PS3 browser? It's functional at the basic level, but many features (some basic blogging functions for one) don't work. Ever tried to play your iTunes music through the PS3? Give it a shot and see what happens. The fact that I've already spent $500 on a PS3 is one reason the Apple TV at another $300 is not exactly appealing to me. Again, repurposing the mini later for no more than the cost of an HDMI cable would fill in the gap where the PS3 falls short. Are you starting to get the picture now? Again, added value sells.
Yes, a $599 C2D machine that can go to 4GB of ram and drive a 30" ACD is almost functional as a stopgap.
Well...hopefully drove a 30" ACD if the damn adapter doesn't suck but I digress. Dual 24" displays anyway. Hmmm...I wonder if two 4GB sticks might work. Not that I have a spare $700 to buy two sticks to try...
30" monitor on the new mini? You must have access to a different spec sheet than I saw. You have know idea of the type of work I'm talking about specific to me, yet you're emoticon-laughing as if you know the specs that suit my purpose better than I do? Interesting. I do some rather large animations and 3D work which I bring home sometimes. It isn't what I do exclusively, but I do I need to do it. For those times, there is no such thing as "fast enough"?if you've ever rendered something in 3D, you know what I'm talking about. You understand the concept of "stop-gap" don't you? It means, "in the mean time?temporary?until another set of circumstances occurs." That "$599 C2D, goes up to $799 with 4 gigs of RAM. So, yeah, I guess the idea paying $799 for a machine that is roughly the same processor speed as the one I already have but with less RAM, a less powerful video card, and a smaller hard drive is laughable as a stop gap?unless I can use it for something else when I get another computer. I don't think I'm alone as a designer in considering the leap-frog approach to upgrading computers. Many of us can't afford the top of the line each time we need a new computer so we start to alternate. We look for the least we can get by with spec-wise with one purchase, so we can afford to upgrade to more powerful technology sooner than if we'd blown a huge wad because newer technology is cheaper with regard to performance per dollar?this makes especially good sense in uncertain economic times. I know more than a few designers who find the low-end mini underspecced but would be interested in the top end mini if it were more reasonably priced. The iMac bump is appealing, unless you want a headless mac. Then your back to square one scratching your head trying to decide if you want to go super cheap (mini) and upgrade again as soon as possible, or go uber-Mac (pro) and be stuck with it longer than you want because you spent an arm an a leg on it. It's the age old Apple story they could have made less painful with this mini, either feature wise on the low-end, or better pricing at the top end.
If you can show me a significant HTPC market I might agree. Heck, and I have a half dozen old HTPC builds gathering dust in my basement. Futzing around trying to get Front Row to work seamlessly as a HTPC is really low on my list of things to do these days. Although I might try Understudy for kicks.
Otherwise, that's a mighty small boat you're in.
By "builds" are your referring to Macs? I'm not interested in "building" a Mac anything. That's one reason people go Mac, to forego that particular brand of pain. I agree, I'm not interesting in "futzing" with Front Row or anything else on any computer to get HTPC. That's why I suggest Apple put the dern HDMI on their mini. If Front Row works on Apple TV, it should work on the mini. If it doesn't work, than they shouldn't be pushing it on either. To reiterate, the HTPC aspect alone is not the deal, its' the fact that adding an attractive feature to a minimal bump in specs and overpricing at the top end goes at least some distance in tipping it from the "meh" category, to the "OK, I'll bite this time around" column.
From a personal perspective, a proper 3.5" HDD or dual 2.5" HDDs would have been nice. Real HDMI 1.3a with audio would also expand its potential as a no-fuss HTPC greatly. Blu Ray is obviously just a fantasy but it would certainly make it into my ultimate HTPC.
I would have pulled the trigger at the old UK price despite these missing features. However, at £499, it's just too expensive once you factor in the extras you'd need to buy.
I'm seriously considering building a Shuttle PC instead. For ~£500 I can get 4GB RAM, 1TB disk space, Blu-Ray, HDMI and all kinds of goodies. The only downside is Vista.
Although it's a bit of a pain, you could go the Hackint0sh route, but obviously would have to do a dual boot.
Vista = blu-ray
HackinT0sh = everything else.
Originally Posted by vinea View Post
If you can show me a significant HTPC market I might agree. Heck, and I have a half dozen old HTPC builds gathering dust in my basement. Futzing around trying to get Front Row to work seamlessly as a HTPC is really low on my list of things to do these days. Although I might try Understudy for kicks.
Otherwise, that's a mighty small boat you're in.
By "builds" are your referring to Macs? I'm not interested in "building" a Mac anything. That's one reason people go Mac, to forego that particular brand of pain. I agree, I'm not interesting in "futzing" with Front Row or anything else on any computer to get HTPC. That's why I suggest Apple put the dern HDMI on their mini. If Front Row works on Apple TV, it should work on the mini. If it doesn't work, than they shouldn't be pushing it on either. To reiterate, the HTPC aspect alone is not the deal, its' the fact that adding an attractive feature to a minimal bump in specs and overpricing at the top end goes at least some distance in tipping it from the "meh" category, to the "OK, I'll bite this time around" column.
Look into PLEX, forget FrontRow.
The high end Mini 2.0GHz : 320GB is $799.
The low end Mini (reconfigured) 2.26 GHz : 120 GB is also $799..
Which would be the better buy?
Are there factors that would make one better than the other?
After market, I could always buy a larger external HDD but not a better processor.
I think the after market HDD would be better for less money
If this has been addressed, I apologize. I haven't had time to read all the posts.
Has this been addressed?
The high end Mini 2.0GHz : 320GB is $799.
The low end Mini (reconfigured) 2.26 GHz : 120 GB is also $799..
Which would be the better buy?
Are there factors that would make one better than the other?
After market, I could always buy a larger external HDD but not a better processor.
I think the after market HDD would be better for less money
If this has been addressed, I apologize. I haven't had time to read all the posts.
If you REALLY need the 13% boost, then go with the low-end option w/ the CPU upgrade. Hard drives, you can shop around for much cheaper. I found a good 320 gb drive on newegg (faster than the 320 from apple) for $75-80 bucks.
OK, I know I'll be labeled a hater, but it's overpriced for the minimal bump. This "bump" really just puts the thing where it should already have been by now more or less, or they need more attractive pricing. Ya see, there's this little thing called a recession going on now that makes anemic electronics less desirable, "it's the economy stupid."
To make it worth the price Apple should have sweetened the deal IMO. Right now, the high-end maxed out is only slightly less than the low-end iMac but with no monitor. If they really wanted to basically sell the same machine tweaked a little, they should have thrown in more.
If they're going to offer it with Front Row included (a good thing), they obviously want to further the idea of the mini used as a digital entertainment hub. They should lose Apple TV and let the mini cover both the entry computer and home entertainment markets with the production cost of a single unit. That means little without a built in HDMI port. I think it's performance limitations are a function of it's size. Keeping it small and quiet (which I'm guessing includes heat-related performance limits) make it attractive to put in an entertainment system. But they configure it so you have to buy an HDMI converter which isn't just another thing to buy, there's more to it than that. That won't get audio to your home theater set up so you have to ad another cable, probably with a Lft/Rt splitter to inputs on your A/V receiver. Just more wires in your cabinet.
The typical home theater enthusiast has at least the A/V receiver, cable box, game console, maybe a DVR. Anyone building a system or adding new things to it wants it as close to "future proof" as possible and as few cables as possible—that means HDMI. HT equipment without HDMI is simply outdated. The remote is necessary to make it useful as part of an HT system, that should be included standard for all models as well. As a computer alone it just isn't that impressive considering it's present cost structure. The low-end should have 2 gigs RAM standard at the current start price. The high-end should have 4 gigs and/or the larger HD standard at the current start price. Those things would make me want to buy one. As it is, not so much; I'm a little underwhelmed.
If what you want is to run OSX and you have a monitor of recent vintage, exactly how many choices do you have?
I don't think Apple is unreasonable in asking roughly $1,000 Cdn. for a well-equiped mini.
From my perspective, the 9400 M, plus faster memory, plus the opportunity to bump up system RAM, translates to a machine that will make editing HD video considerably more pleasant than trying to do it on the mini I have now, which is a base model that has 1.83 Core 2 duo with a gig of RAM. That's 667 Mhz SDRAM, compared to the new version's 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM.
Updating to this machine in the next few months is a no-brainer. I can't even imagine going another route. The price is not, for me, a deal-breaker. Consider that to go to 2 gigs of RAM here in Canada, costs all of $60. Big deal. Going all the way to 4 gigs sets you back $180. Seems to me that's not much of a cost to take this machine up to the point where it can handle some serious work rather well. A few years ago, a top-of-the-line Apple running 4 gigs of RAM would have been prohibitively expensive.