The low end Mini (reconfigured) 2.26 GHz : 120 GB is also $799..
Which would be the better buy?
Are there factors that would make one better than the other?
There won't be significant performance difference between 2 and 2.26 GHz. 10% at the most.
Since high-end mini is identical to low-end except for the hard disk and memory, I wouldn't even consider it.
I would buy the low-end from online retailer that offers free shipping and $25 mail-in-rebate, along with 2x2GB 1066 MHz SO-DIMM (about $70) and external hard disk (e.g., 1 TB USB at about $100).
So, what is the difference of having 128 vs. 256 MB of graphics memory. I know some games require it, but would it speed up openCL, iMovie, rendering, etc.?
I am so glad they finally updated it. Now I just have to decide which graphics and processor speed I want.
Well the thing is if you have 1 GB of RAM it only takes up 128 MB, but if you 2 or 4 GB of RAM it will use up to 256 MB...
Add a secondary PCI-Express 2.0 GPU slot and I'd buy 2 and buy 2 GPUs to use OpenCL and OpenGL3.x.
They blew it.
Are you saying that this GPU is not OpenCL ready?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phong
I would have bought this, if they released this six months ago instead of the Macbooks. I remember feeling like a second class citizen for owning a Mac desktop back in the 90s. These past six months I've felt like a second class citizen from Apple's perspective for wanting to buy a Mac desktop.
There's no excuse for waiting this long. The real headline should be "Apple waits 19 months to make 6-month-old Macbook."
This is just the way I see it, but a Nintendo, XBOX, or PS takes 3-4 years or more per release...
This is just an expensive set top box, that can run os x, win, and linux...
This is what I am doing, with my purchase:
Getting the low end $599
Use it for a little
Sending it Off to OWC for 7200.4 500 GB Seagate & 4 GB of RAM...
And putting that 120 GB in an External case YUM
I was wondering if this would do the 6 GB trick, but that seems like it's to expensive to be practical.
1 year too late. A upgrade after sitting on the shelf for a year? Mini should should retired! As usual apple cripples its low end mac to meet a pricepoint. Underpowered and overpriced yet again. 2GHz? On come on! When 3ghz is the low end on most pcs. Wake up and get a clue.
Maybe a financial loss next quarter will make apple more humble and less arrogant. The entire desktop line up has nothing worthy to offer.
1 year too late. A upgrade after sitting on the shelf for a year? Mini should should retired! As usual apple cripples its low end mac to meet a pricepoint. Underpowered and overpriced yet again. 2GHz? On come on! When 3ghz is the low end on most pcs. Wake up and get a clue.
Maybe a financial loss next quarter will make apple more humble and less arrogant. The entire desktop line up has nothing worthy to offer.
YOU SERIOUS!?!?! This 2.0ghz CPU is NOT ONLY A laptop unit designed for low power, but has the better performance on a magnitude of 5 of the 3.06 from years ago. 1066mhz bus! Single chipset controller! Let's see the numbers before ANYONE b*tches about the specs.
Where not in 2003 anymore, this isn't about higher ghz numbers. We are in total gigaflops (teraflops soon) a cpu can calculate per second.
Megahertz junkies... Come on. IT'S A MINI! Not a MacPro! Which BTW lost it's 3.0+ chips, YET IS OVER 200% faster!
Since OpenGL 3.0 is compatible with DirectX 10 hardware, this 9400M is fully compatible with DX10... Then this GPU is compatible with OpenGL 3.0... Hmmm....
Full use of OpenGL 3.0 requires the same level of hardware as is required for DirectX 10 support. Unlike DirectX 10, OpenGL 3.0 does not require Windows Vista and can be used on any OS for which the appropriate drivers are provided.
Actually, it has everything to do with currency. The exchange rate used to be around $1.90 +/- per 1 GBP (It's been awhile since I've travelled to the UK, so I'm not exactly sure). It's now $1.40 per GBP. So let's do the math, that's a $0.50 change, and 0.5/1.9 = 0.26 or 26%. Hmm...
Now obviously, the exchange rate didn't change overnight. It gradually changed over time. So in fact, over the past year or two, the price of the mini in the UK should have been slowing increasing as the dollar got stronger vs the GBP. So you should actually be thanking Apple for not increasing the price of the mini sooner as the exchange rate changed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
Hope this doesn't sound too stupid. Will Mac warehouses like MacMall ship to Britain or other foreign places? How would tax, shipping, etc., in general, affect the cost? Would this be viable vis-a-vis buying a Mac locally? Cheaper? Costlier?
Not sure it would save you much. By the time you add in sales tax (which isn't included in the US price) currency conversion, and import tax, the price is probably about the same. Granted, I'm not sure how sales tax would be applied in that case. But for me, if I were to purchase the base mini from either of those stores, the $599 price tag would change to $665 with sales tax. And at the current exchange rate, that's 475 GBP. Then add shipping and import duties. Even without sales tax, you are getting pretty close to the UK price with a lot more hassle.
Thought I would throw my $.02 in to the home theater discussion.
I like the mini because it is small and a cheap headless mac. The specs I have now are good enough for 1080p. However I mostly do the native on my projector at 720p. I use it for surfing the web on the big screen and to watch TV I missed.
Biggest things I see being commented on and what works for me personally:
HDMI: DVI to HDMI works great. Audio is not an issue I would rather take the optical to the surround receiver anyway. If macs had Blue-Ray, and if they then supported True HD over HDMI then maybe a different story. Do PC's support True HD over HDMI?
HDD: If your doing media you are going to want an external anyway. GigE or firewire (usb in a pinch) are better than going internal. I already have a few and adding externals can be done anytime and cheaper.
The setup I am going to order:
Low end mini $600
4GB ram $50
Processor bump $150
Pay the same amount as the stock high end but have a better system overall. I love having my current mini on a 100" screen and a new one is just what the doctor ordered.
They are going from bad to worse. Europe is having all of the same problems as the USA, plus a couple trillion in bad loans to the former soviet republics.
I noticed HSBC is looking for 12b to "fend" off the upcoming issues... Seems what's happening here follows in EuroAmerica by a year. There gonna need more than that, good thing Banc of China is lending... Only Bank that is.
Thought I would throw my $.02 in to the home theater discussion.
I like the mini because it is small and a cheap headless mac. The specs I have now are good enough for 1080p. However I mostly do the native on my projector at 720p. I use it for surfing the web on the big screen and to watch TV I missed.
Biggest things I see being commented on and what works for me personally:
HDMI: DVI to HDMI works great. Audio is not an issue I would rather take the optical to the surround receiver anyway. If macs had Blue-Ray, and if they then supported True HD over HDMI then maybe a different story. Do PC's support True HD over HDMI?
HDD: If your doing media you are going to want an external anyway. GigE or firewire (usb in a pinch) are better than going internal. I already have a few and adding externals can be done anytime and cheaper.
The setup I am going to order:
Low end mini $600
4GB ram $50
Processor bump $150
Pay the same amount as the stock high end but have a better system overall. I love having my current mini on a 100" screen and a new one is just what the doctor ordered.
Pushing 1080 on the new unit should be no issue, it's supporting 1080i resolutions.
BTW: Which Doctor are you seeing? Mine said "No way, not right now!"
I don't want to invest in an HTPC for that purpose alone—no sale there either. However, let's say I'm on the edge about buying a new computer for the sake of needing a computer (which I am). Knowing that computer would make an excellent HTPC after it's served it's original purpose as a computer alone to get more life out of it—how is that a bad thing? Who wouldn't want that? Do ya think maybe HTPC might be more widly used if people had a computer that fits that bill a little better, say like the mini with an HDMI port? Do ya think Apple might increase video sales on iTunes that way? Call me crazy, but I think it might.
Optical Digital Out (TosLink) to receiver for sound. $5
Quote:
Again, why not leverage the SFF further with an HDMI port?
Other than being able to send audio on one cable it's a $10 fix. DisplayPort to HDMI may be a $10 fix with audio depending on how it's handled by OSX.
Quote:
Ever used the PS3 browser? It's functional at the basic level, but many features (some basic blogging functions for one) don't work. Ever tried to play your iTunes music through the PS3? Give it a shot and see what happens. The fact that I've already spent $500 on a PS3 is one reason the Apple TV at another $300 is not exactly appealing to me. Again, repurposing the mini later for no more than the cost of an HDMI cable would fill in the gap where the PS3 falls short. Are you starting to get the picture now? Again, added value sells.
So use a mini. Whatever. Jeez. The AppleTV is a nice little box if you don't game.
Quote:
30" monitor on the new mini? You must have access to a different spec sheet than I saw.
What? You mean the one on the Apple site?
Does "2560 by 1600 pixels on a dual-link DVI display using Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter (sold separately)" and "Connect the 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display to your Mac mini using the Mini DisplayPort." confuse you somehow?
Quote:
You have know idea of the type of work I'm talking about specific to me, yet you're emoticon-laughing as if you know the specs that suit my purpose better than I do? Interesting. I do some rather large animations and 3D work which I bring home sometimes. It isn't what I do exclusively, but I do I need to do it. For those times, there is no such thing as "fast enough"—if you've ever rendered something in 3D, you know what I'm talking about.
Yep. And I know it generally breaks down into two kinds of "take home" work flows: "fast enough to do real time" and "so slow you run it overnight or while watching lots of TV". The C2D and 9400M should be sufficient for that. If you need more then you should VPN into your work and put the job on the renderfarm and check later.
Quote:
You understand the concept of "stop-gap" don't you? It means, "in the mean time—temporary—until another set of circumstances occurs." That "$599 C2D, goes up to $799 with 4 gigs of RAM. So, yeah, I guess the idea paying $799 for a machine that is roughly the same processor speed as the one I already have but with less RAM, a less powerful video card, and a smaller hard drive is laughable as a stop gap—unless I can use it for something else when I get another computer.
Then stay with your G5 if you think it has the same processor speed.
Too bad that the benchmarks indicates that the old Merom based mini was faster than dual 2.5Ghz G5s...and the new mini a bit faster and the 9400M far better than the old GMA.
Quote:
I don't think I'm alone as a designer in considering the leap-frog approach to upgrading computers. Many of us can't afford the top of the line each time we need a new computer so we start to alternate.
So don't. You can get a few minis and use them as a baby renderfarm. Or get a refurb last gen Mac Pro.
Quote:
I know more than a few designers who find the low-end mini underspecced but would be interested in the top end mini if it were more reasonably priced.
Then find one tech with a putty knife and upgrade them all to "top end mini" with a fast drive and 4GB of ram for $100 each and a case of beer. You haven't pissed off your techs at work have you?
Quote:
By "builds" are your referring to Macs? I'm not interested in "building" a Mac anything.
The point is that I've probably done more with HTPCs than you have. Even with a mac, it's just not worth the effort for me anymore.
Quote:
That's one reason people go Mac, to forego that particular brand of pain. I agree, I'm not interesting in "futzing" with Front Row or anything else on any computer to get HTPC.
Then no hardware configuration will help you. There are no HTPCs that require no futzing of some kind. AppleTV probably comes closest IF you stay within the iTunes walled garden.
Quote:
That's why I suggest Apple put the dern HDMI on their mini. If Front Row works on Apple TV, it should work on the mini. If it doesn't work, than they shouldn't be pushing it on either. To reiterate, the HTPC aspect alone is not the deal, its' the fact that adding an attractive feature to a minimal bump in specs and overpricing at the top end goes at least some distance in tipping it from the "meh" category, to the "OK, I'll bite this time around" column.
Well, then I suggest you do some research and realize that you can't get there from here without futzing around with crap if you want a usable HTPC. That may mean as little as installing Boxee on your aTV or replacing Front Row with something else.
Frankly, if you can't use 2 cables to connect your mini to your HDTV you are not going be a happy HTPC user, single HDMI cable or not.
First of all, the shared memory numbers quoted here are minimums, which brings me to my second point: Those minimum depends on how much memory you have installed---with 1GB (the lower end model), it's 128MB, but with 2GB, it's 256MB---which means you can simply install more memory into your lower end mac mini to achieve the same number.
Good point (I never new how they came up with allocating shared video memory).
So the only two things you get for an extra $200 (that is a 33% higher price) is a single extra GB of RAM (whoo-hoo :P ) and a boost in HD space from 120G up to 320G. Same cpu speed, same graphic chip, same same...
Is the larger capacity 2.5" notebook drive really worth the extra $150-$175?
I just did some quick checks:
- on PC3-8500 DDR3-1066 looks to be 1 GB for $25-$50 (depending on mfg, vendor);
- 2.5" 320 GB sata notebook drives: $75 to $100 (depending on mfg, vendor)
So about $100 for those two upgrades if you find best deals, maybe $150 for average (but still lower than SRP). ... 'course, still need to add in tax, shipping and whatever you or tech person install time ...
THus it seems the 799 higher end is not quite as good a value for price (compared to 599 base model) maybe $50 to 100 overpriced based on cost of hardware ...
Many PCs with integrated GPUs that share the system memory have the GPU's memory allocation set in the BIOS. Macs use EFI which for the most part is hidden from the user. It may take more than simply installing more RAM to increase the memory allocation to the GPU, but I am sure that if it does require commands to be entered in EFI someone will post a how-to in short order.
The new mac mini is actually quite good. It has one of the best blu-ray accelerating video chipsets, which also includes hd h.264 videos. For 599 bucks apple is providing you with a computer that is capable of running two displays at once, has wi-fi, bluetooth and a dvd burner. The ram and hdd are awful choices on apple's part, but atleast they can be upgraded. The nvidia 110m is basically a overclocked 8400m gs and with its 64 bit interface against the 9400m's 128 bit is actually inferior despite featuring dedicated ram.
Pushing 1080 on the new unit should be no issue, it's supporting 1080i resolutions.
BTW: Which Doctor are you seeing? Mine said "No way, not right now!"
I guess I don't understand, what is the issue with 1080i?
Well my doctor is kind of a quack. I don't think he has a license. Travels around in a blue box. Like I said kinda strange, but I am sure he would say its fantastic!
Thought I would throw my $.02 in to the home theater discussion.
I like the mini because it is small and a cheap headless mac. The specs I have now are good enough for 1080p. However I mostly do the native on my projector at 720p. I use it for surfing the web on the big screen and to watch TV I missed.
Biggest things I see being commented on and what works for me personally:
HDMI: DVI to HDMI works great. Audio is not an issue I would rather take the optical to the surround receiver anyway. If macs had Blue-Ray, and if they then supported True HD over HDMI then maybe a different story. Do PC's support True HD over HDMI?
HDD: If your doing media you are going to want an external anyway. GigE or firewire (usb in a pinch) are better than going internal. I already have a few and adding externals can be done anytime and cheaper.
The setup I am going to order:
Low end mini $600
4GB ram $50
Processor bump $150
Pay the same amount as the stock high end but have a better system overall. I love having my current mini on a 100" screen and a new one is just what the doctor ordered.
Here's a few more pennies.
Not everyone uses a flat screen LCD or Plasma for their HD viewing. Like you, my HD display is a front projector. (92 inches for me). The biggest draw back with the old Mini is that it only supports one display. There is really no cheap and viable work around. On a PC box (and PowerMac) you can just add another graphics card.) Since I'm also planning on using the Mini as my music server, I need to use iTunes. I can select my music with the "Remote" app on my Touch. But I still have to open iTunes on the Mini. And I don't want to turn my projector on, just to do that. Plus I don't want to use my projector as a monitor when importing music or movies to my HD.
HD, Graphics and processor speed is not an issue. Even the old Mini was fast enough to do what I need it to do (play back video and music) and the internal HD is way too small even at 320G or 500G. External is the only way to go. And FW800 is a plus. I already have a 750G FW800 external that cost me only$120. The old Mini graphics was good enough and is now way better on the new Mini.
The other big plus for the Mini as a HTPC is the optical out for sound. It's the only way to get Dolby Digital to my sound system. Otherwise your stuck with with Dolby ProLogic. And since I'm not sending the sound to my projector anyways, DVI to HDMI (without sound) will do just fine. And there's no cheap and good work around when trying to add optical out for sound on a PPC Mac or older Intel Mac.
And finally "Front Row". Too bad the remote don't come with the new Mini. But being able to control the DVD player in OSX with a remote is also a big plus. My movies will be ripped and stored as a Video_TS file. Thus I will be using the DVD player to play back my movies. Not iTunes. This preserves the Dolby Digital surround sound. Along with subtitles, languages and special features. The only draw back is the file size. About 7G per movie after ripping. But no biggy when using external HDs.
And built in BlueTooth means I can surf the web from my couch if I want to use my projector as the monitor.
There are more pluses than minuses for the new Mini being use as a HTPC. And when you considered that a refurbish older low end Mini is going for $499 (with warranty and 1G ram) and used ones were going for about $450 (with no warranty but 2G ram), $599 (with warranty and 1G ram) for the new Mini is a bargain. The new low end Mini is better than the the older high end Mini when using as an HTPC. And is cheaper than a used or refurished one of those. And if you don't need to add memory, it's ready for HTPC out of the box (with a few connecting cables).
Many PCs with integrated GPUs that share the system memory have the GPU's memory allocation set in the BIOS. Macs use EFI which for the most part is hidden from the user. It may take more than simply installing more RAM to increase the memory allocation to the GPU, but I am sure that if it does require commands to be entered in EFI someone will post a how-to in short order.
It does seem like this would have to be in software somewhere. It'd be my preference to get the $599 mini with the 2.26GHz upgrade and do the rest of the upgrades myself.
Note the Tech Specs at the bottom, "2. Memory available to Mac OS X may vary depending on graphics needs. Minimum graphics memory usage is 128MB for 1GB configuration and 256MB for 2GB configuration." Maybe it is based on the amount of installed RAM.
From a personal perspective, a proper 3.5" HDD or dual 2.5" HDDs would have been nice. Real HDMI 1.3a with audio would also expand its potential as a no-fuss HTPC greatly. Blu Ray is obviously just a fantasy but it would certainly make it into my ultimate HTPC.
HDMI only supports screen resolutions up to 1920 x 1080.
As a COMPUTER, the mini can drive a typical 22" (and up) monitor at 1920 x 1200 and the Apple 30" monitor, whatever resolution is. HDMI also adds DRM to the mix, if you like that.
You're better off with an external Blu-ray player that will also UPSAMPLE DVDs to 1080p resolution and also has multi-channel audio outputs. The internal DVD drive will not upsample video. Upsampling really does make a difference.
Comments
Has this been addressed?
The high end Mini 2.0GHz : 320GB is $799.
The low end Mini (reconfigured) 2.26 GHz : 120 GB is also $799..
Which would be the better buy?
Are there factors that would make one better than the other?
There won't be significant performance difference between 2 and 2.26 GHz. 10% at the most.
Since high-end mini is identical to low-end except for the hard disk and memory, I wouldn't even consider it.
I would buy the low-end from online retailer that offers free shipping and $25 mail-in-rebate, along with 2x2GB 1066 MHz SO-DIMM (about $70) and external hard disk (e.g., 1 TB USB at about $100).
So, what is the difference of having 128 vs. 256 MB of graphics memory. I know some games require it, but would it speed up openCL, iMovie, rendering, etc.?
I am so glad they finally updated it. Now I just have to decide which graphics and processor speed I want.
Well the thing is if you have 1 GB of RAM it only takes up 128 MB, but if you 2 or 4 GB of RAM it will use up to 256 MB...
Put in the G110M and I've got OpenCL ready GPU.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product..._g110m_us.html
Add a secondary PCI-Express 2.0 GPU slot and I'd buy 2 and buy 2 GPUs to use OpenCL and OpenGL3.x.
They blew it.
Are you saying that this GPU is not OpenCL ready?
I would have bought this, if they released this six months ago instead of the Macbooks. I remember feeling like a second class citizen for owning a Mac desktop back in the 90s. These past six months I've felt like a second class citizen from Apple's perspective for wanting to buy a Mac desktop.
There's no excuse for waiting this long. The real headline should be "Apple waits 19 months to make 6-month-old Macbook."
This is just the way I see it, but a Nintendo, XBOX, or PS takes 3-4 years or more per release...
This is just an expensive set top box, that can run os x, win, and linux...
This is what I am doing, with my purchase:
Getting the low end $599
Use it for a little
Sending it Off to OWC for 7200.4 500 GB Seagate & 4 GB of RAM...
And putting that 120 GB in an External case YUM
I was wondering if this would do the 6 GB trick, but that seems like it's to expensive to be practical.
Laters...
Maybe a financial loss next quarter will make apple more humble and less arrogant. The entire desktop line up has nothing worthy to offer.
From Mac mini - Features page:
Seriously, that wasn't there when I looked! COOL!
Wonder if I can run the projector for the home theater AND a 15" touchscreen next to the couch...
1 year too late. A upgrade after sitting on the shelf for a year? Mini should should retired! As usual apple cripples its low end mac to meet a pricepoint. Underpowered and overpriced yet again. 2GHz? On come on! When 3ghz is the low end on most pcs. Wake up and get a clue.
Maybe a financial loss next quarter will make apple more humble and less arrogant. The entire desktop line up has nothing worthy to offer.
YOU SERIOUS!?!?! This 2.0ghz CPU is NOT ONLY A laptop unit designed for low power, but has the better performance on a magnitude of 5 of the 3.06 from years ago. 1066mhz bus! Single chipset controller! Let's see the numbers before ANYONE b*tches about the specs.
Where not in 2003 anymore, this isn't about higher ghz numbers. We are in total gigaflops (teraflops soon) a cpu can calculate per second.
Megahertz junkies... Come on. IT'S A MINI! Not a MacPro! Which BTW lost it's 3.0+ chips, YET IS OVER 200% faster!
Full use of OpenGL 3.0 requires the same level of hardware as is required for DirectX 10 support. Unlike DirectX 10, OpenGL 3.0 does not require Windows Vista and can be used on any OS for which the appropriate drivers are provided.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL#OpenGL_3.0
missing the point about pricing.
US = same price point...better specs.
UK = 26% price increase...better specs.
it has nothing to do with currency.
Actually, it has everything to do with currency. The exchange rate used to be around $1.90 +/- per 1 GBP (It's been awhile since I've travelled to the UK, so I'm not exactly sure). It's now $1.40 per GBP. So let's do the math, that's a $0.50 change, and 0.5/1.9 = 0.26 or 26%. Hmm...
Now obviously, the exchange rate didn't change overnight. It gradually changed over time. So in fact, over the past year or two, the price of the mini in the UK should have been slowing increasing as the dollar got stronger vs the GBP. So you should actually be thanking Apple for not increasing the price of the mini sooner as the exchange rate changed!
Hope this doesn't sound too stupid. Will Mac warehouses like MacMall ship to Britain or other foreign places? How would tax, shipping, etc., in general, affect the cost? Would this be viable vis-a-vis buying a Mac locally? Cheaper? Costlier?
Not sure it would save you much. By the time you add in sales tax (which isn't included in the US price) currency conversion, and import tax, the price is probably about the same. Granted, I'm not sure how sales tax would be applied in that case. But for me, if I were to purchase the base mini from either of those stores, the $599 price tag would change to $665 with sales tax. And at the current exchange rate, that's 475 GBP. Then add shipping and import duties. Even without sales tax, you are getting pretty close to the UK price with a lot more hassle.
I like the mini because it is small and a cheap headless mac. The specs I have now are good enough for 1080p. However I mostly do the native on my projector at 720p. I use it for surfing the web on the big screen and to watch TV I missed.
Biggest things I see being commented on and what works for me personally:
HDMI: DVI to HDMI works great. Audio is not an issue I would rather take the optical to the surround receiver anyway. If macs had Blue-Ray, and if they then supported True HD over HDMI then maybe a different story. Do PC's support True HD over HDMI?
HDD: If your doing media you are going to want an external anyway. GigE or firewire (usb in a pinch) are better than going internal. I already have a few and adding externals can be done anytime and cheaper.
The setup I am going to order:
Low end mini $600
4GB ram $50
Processor bump $150
Pay the same amount as the stock high end but have a better system overall. I love having my current mini on a 100" screen and a new one is just what the doctor ordered.
They are going from bad to worse. Europe is having all of the same problems as the USA, plus a couple trillion in bad loans to the former soviet republics.
I noticed HSBC is looking for 12b to "fend" off the upcoming issues... Seems what's happening here follows in EuroAmerica by a year. There gonna need more than that, good thing Banc of China is lending... Only Bank that is.
Thought I would throw my $.02 in to the home theater discussion.
I like the mini because it is small and a cheap headless mac. The specs I have now are good enough for 1080p. However I mostly do the native on my projector at 720p. I use it for surfing the web on the big screen and to watch TV I missed.
Biggest things I see being commented on and what works for me personally:
HDMI: DVI to HDMI works great. Audio is not an issue I would rather take the optical to the surround receiver anyway. If macs had Blue-Ray, and if they then supported True HD over HDMI then maybe a different story. Do PC's support True HD over HDMI?
HDD: If your doing media you are going to want an external anyway. GigE or firewire (usb in a pinch) are better than going internal. I already have a few and adding externals can be done anytime and cheaper.
The setup I am going to order:
Low end mini $600
4GB ram $50
Processor bump $150
Pay the same amount as the stock high end but have a better system overall. I love having my current mini on a 100" screen and a new one is just what the doctor ordered.
Pushing 1080 on the new unit should be no issue, it's supporting 1080i resolutions.
BTW: Which Doctor are you seeing? Mine said "No way, not right now!"
I don't want to invest in an HTPC for that purpose alone—no sale there either. However, let's say I'm on the edge about buying a new computer for the sake of needing a computer (which I am). Knowing that computer would make an excellent HTPC after it's served it's original purpose as a computer alone to get more life out of it—how is that a bad thing? Who wouldn't want that? Do ya think maybe HTPC might be more widly used if people had a computer that fits that bill a little better, say like the mini with an HDMI port? Do ya think Apple might increase video sales on iTunes that way? Call me crazy, but I think it might.
Oh for crying out loud:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...mat=4#feedback
Boom. Mini DVI to HDMI for $10.
Optical Digital Out (TosLink) to receiver for sound. $5
Again, why not leverage the SFF further with an HDMI port?
Other than being able to send audio on one cable it's a $10 fix. DisplayPort to HDMI may be a $10 fix with audio depending on how it's handled by OSX.
Ever used the PS3 browser? It's functional at the basic level, but many features (some basic blogging functions for one) don't work. Ever tried to play your iTunes music through the PS3? Give it a shot and see what happens. The fact that I've already spent $500 on a PS3 is one reason the Apple TV at another $300 is not exactly appealing to me. Again, repurposing the mini later for no more than the cost of an HDMI cable would fill in the gap where the PS3 falls short. Are you starting to get the picture now? Again, added value sells.
So use a mini. Whatever. Jeez. The AppleTV is a nice little box if you don't game.
30" monitor on the new mini? You must have access to a different spec sheet than I saw.
What? You mean the one on the Apple site?
Does "2560 by 1600 pixels on a dual-link DVI display using Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter (sold separately)" and "Connect the 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display to your Mac mini using the Mini DisplayPort." confuse you somehow?
You have know idea of the type of work I'm talking about specific to me, yet you're emoticon-laughing as if you know the specs that suit my purpose better than I do? Interesting. I do some rather large animations and 3D work which I bring home sometimes. It isn't what I do exclusively, but I do I need to do it. For those times, there is no such thing as "fast enough"—if you've ever rendered something in 3D, you know what I'm talking about.
Yep. And I know it generally breaks down into two kinds of "take home" work flows: "fast enough to do real time" and "so slow you run it overnight or while watching lots of TV". The C2D and 9400M should be sufficient for that. If you need more then you should VPN into your work and put the job on the renderfarm and check later.
You understand the concept of "stop-gap" don't you? It means, "in the mean time—temporary—until another set of circumstances occurs." That "$599 C2D, goes up to $799 with 4 gigs of RAM. So, yeah, I guess the idea paying $799 for a machine that is roughly the same processor speed as the one I already have but with less RAM, a less powerful video card, and a smaller hard drive is laughable as a stop gap—unless I can use it for something else when I get another computer.
Then stay with your G5 if you think it has the same processor speed.
Too bad that the benchmarks indicates that the old Merom based mini was faster than dual 2.5Ghz G5s...and the new mini a bit faster and the 9400M far better than the old GMA.
I don't think I'm alone as a designer in considering the leap-frog approach to upgrading computers. Many of us can't afford the top of the line each time we need a new computer so we start to alternate.
So don't. You can get a few minis and use them as a baby renderfarm. Or get a refurb last gen Mac Pro.
I know more than a few designers who find the low-end mini underspecced but would be interested in the top end mini if it were more reasonably priced.
Then find one tech with a putty knife and upgrade them all to "top end mini" with a fast drive and 4GB of ram for $100 each and a case of beer. You haven't pissed off your techs at work have you?
By "builds" are your referring to Macs? I'm not interested in "building" a Mac anything.
The point is that I've probably done more with HTPCs than you have. Even with a mac, it's just not worth the effort for me anymore.
That's one reason people go Mac, to forego that particular brand of pain. I agree, I'm not interesting in "futzing" with Front Row or anything else on any computer to get HTPC.
Then no hardware configuration will help you. There are no HTPCs that require no futzing of some kind. AppleTV probably comes closest IF you stay within the iTunes walled garden.
That's why I suggest Apple put the dern HDMI on their mini. If Front Row works on Apple TV, it should work on the mini. If it doesn't work, than they shouldn't be pushing it on either. To reiterate, the HTPC aspect alone is not the deal, its' the fact that adding an attractive feature to a minimal bump in specs and overpricing at the top end goes at least some distance in tipping it from the "meh" category, to the "OK, I'll bite this time around" column.
Well, then I suggest you do some research and realize that you can't get there from here without futzing around with crap if you want a usable HTPC. That may mean as little as installing Boxee on your aTV or replacing Front Row with something else.
Frankly, if you can't use 2 cables to connect your mini to your HDTV you are not going be a happy HTPC user, single HDMI cable or not.
First of all, the shared memory numbers quoted here are minimums, which brings me to my second point: Those minimum depends on how much memory you have installed---with 1GB (the lower end model), it's 128MB, but with 2GB, it's 256MB---which means you can simply install more memory into your lower end mac mini to achieve the same number.
Good point (I never new how they came up with allocating shared video memory).
So the only two things you get for an extra $200 (that is a 33% higher price) is a single extra GB of RAM (whoo-hoo :P ) and a boost in HD space from 120G up to 320G. Same cpu speed, same graphic chip, same same...
Is the larger capacity 2.5" notebook drive really worth the extra $150-$175?
I just did some quick checks:
- on PC3-8500 DDR3-1066 looks to be 1 GB for $25-$50 (depending on mfg, vendor);
- 2.5" 320 GB sata notebook drives: $75 to $100 (depending on mfg, vendor)
So about $100 for those two upgrades if you find best deals, maybe $150 for average (but still lower than SRP). ... 'course, still need to add in tax, shipping and whatever you or tech person install time ...
THus it seems the 799 higher end is not quite as good a value for price (compared to 599 base model) maybe $50 to 100 overpriced based on cost of hardware ...
Pushing 1080 on the new unit should be no issue, it's supporting 1080i resolutions.
BTW: Which Doctor are you seeing? Mine said "No way, not right now!"
I guess I don't understand, what is the issue with 1080i?
Well my doctor is kind of a quack. I don't think he has a license. Travels around in a blue box. Like I said kinda strange, but I am sure he would say its fantastic!
Thought I would throw my $.02 in to the home theater discussion.
I like the mini because it is small and a cheap headless mac. The specs I have now are good enough for 1080p. However I mostly do the native on my projector at 720p. I use it for surfing the web on the big screen and to watch TV I missed.
Biggest things I see being commented on and what works for me personally:
HDMI: DVI to HDMI works great. Audio is not an issue I would rather take the optical to the surround receiver anyway. If macs had Blue-Ray, and if they then supported True HD over HDMI then maybe a different story. Do PC's support True HD over HDMI?
HDD: If your doing media you are going to want an external anyway. GigE or firewire (usb in a pinch) are better than going internal. I already have a few and adding externals can be done anytime and cheaper.
The setup I am going to order:
Low end mini $600
4GB ram $50
Processor bump $150
Pay the same amount as the stock high end but have a better system overall. I love having my current mini on a 100" screen and a new one is just what the doctor ordered.
Here's a few more pennies.
Not everyone uses a flat screen LCD or Plasma for their HD viewing. Like you, my HD display is a front projector. (92 inches for me). The biggest draw back with the old Mini is that it only supports one display. There is really no cheap and viable work around. On a PC box (and PowerMac) you can just add another graphics card.) Since I'm also planning on using the Mini as my music server, I need to use iTunes. I can select my music with the "Remote" app on my Touch. But I still have to open iTunes on the Mini. And I don't want to turn my projector on, just to do that. Plus I don't want to use my projector as a monitor when importing music or movies to my HD.
HD, Graphics and processor speed is not an issue. Even the old Mini was fast enough to do what I need it to do (play back video and music) and the internal HD is way too small even at 320G or 500G. External is the only way to go. And FW800 is a plus. I already have a 750G FW800 external that cost me only$120. The old Mini graphics was good enough and is now way better on the new Mini.
The other big plus for the Mini as a HTPC is the optical out for sound. It's the only way to get Dolby Digital to my sound system. Otherwise your stuck with with Dolby ProLogic. And since I'm not sending the sound to my projector anyways, DVI to HDMI (without sound) will do just fine. And there's no cheap and good work around when trying to add optical out for sound on a PPC Mac or older Intel Mac.
And finally "Front Row". Too bad the remote don't come with the new Mini. But being able to control the DVD player in OSX with a remote is also a big plus. My movies will be ripped and stored as a Video_TS file. Thus I will be using the DVD player to play back my movies. Not iTunes. This preserves the Dolby Digital surround sound. Along with subtitles, languages and special features. The only draw back is the file size. About 7G per movie after ripping. But no biggy when using external HDs.
And built in BlueTooth means I can surf the web from my couch if I want to use my projector as the monitor.
There are more pluses than minuses for the new Mini being use as a HTPC. And when you considered that a refurbish older low end Mini is going for $499 (with warranty and 1G ram) and used ones were going for about $450 (with no warranty but 2G ram), $599 (with warranty and 1G ram) for the new Mini is a bargain. The new low end Mini is better than the the older high end Mini when using as an HTPC. And is cheaper than a used or refurished one of those. And if you don't need to add memory, it's ready for HTPC out of the box (with a few connecting cables).
Many PCs with integrated GPUs that share the system memory have the GPU's memory allocation set in the BIOS. Macs use EFI which for the most part is hidden from the user. It may take more than simply installing more RAM to increase the memory allocation to the GPU, but I am sure that if it does require commands to be entered in EFI someone will post a how-to in short order.
It does seem like this would have to be in software somewhere. It'd be my preference to get the $599 mini with the 2.26GHz upgrade and do the rest of the upgrades myself.
Note the Tech Specs at the bottom, "2. Memory available to Mac OS X may vary depending on graphics needs. Minimum graphics memory usage is 128MB for 1GB configuration and 256MB for 2GB configuration." Maybe it is based on the amount of installed RAM.
What's the best way to hook this up to my HDTV??
It depends on the inputs of your HDTV. Some have DVI ports, some VGA. You could get a DVI to HDMI adaptor to connect to the included mini DVI adaptor.
Me? My HDTV has VGA, so, I'd need to buy the mini DVI to VGA adaptor cable.
I guess I don't understand, what is the issue with 1080i?
There's no issue. It supports Full-HD 1080p resolution. 1080p refreshes the entire screen with every cycle.
1080i is interlaced video, like broadcast HD TV, meaning that it paints every other line with each cycle.
(excuse my lack of videot lingo)
From a personal perspective, a proper 3.5" HDD or dual 2.5" HDDs would have been nice. Real HDMI 1.3a with audio would also expand its potential as a no-fuss HTPC greatly. Blu Ray is obviously just a fantasy but it would certainly make it into my ultimate HTPC.
HDMI only supports screen resolutions up to 1920 x 1080.
As a COMPUTER, the mini can drive a typical 22" (and up) monitor at 1920 x 1200 and the Apple 30" monitor, whatever resolution is. HDMI also adds DRM to the mix, if you like that.
You're better off with an external Blu-ray player that will also UPSAMPLE DVDs to 1080p resolution and also has multi-channel audio outputs. The internal DVD drive will not upsample video. Upsampling really does make a difference.