I love all the people on here making excuses for Apple's flub. A numbered keyboard should be included as the default- end of story. That's an industry standard for a desktop.
And you were appointed by whom of arbiter of 'industry standards'?
Jeez... I can't believe I got sucked into your endless pissing and moaning.
I wish there was an option for no keyboard or mouse because I don't much care for any of the Apple input devices.
Yes! For a while there I thought I was the only one who thought Apple's input devices are complete garbage.
I'm typing this on a MS Natural Keyboard Elite (with the PS/2 to USB adapter -- archaic I know, but it works) and using a Logitech TrackMan Wheel mouse. Been making very heavy use of this combination for about 12 years now and no carpal tunnel symptoms to speak of yet (knocking on my compressed particleboard desk).
The only time I use the Apple keyboard is when I need to use the key combos when booting up. And even for that my wrists hurt. And don't even mention the mighty mouse. That immediately went in the recycling bin (what a waste).
Please Apple, if you're not going to give a rats ass about ergonomics, at least give the option to forgo the keyboard and mouse for environmental reasons. Even if there's no discount (which there should be).
I hardly ever use my desktop machine so I don't care what wired keyboard Apple provides. I do nearly all my work on my laptop, where I love my multitouch trackpad. I do have a Mac Mini with wireless keyboard and mouse connected to my TV in the lounge though. If you've ever tried to use a wireless mouse on your knee or the arm rest of a sofa though you'll know how absolutely essential it is for Apple to bring out a Bluetooth trackpad.
A spreadsheet by definition has columns and rows of numbers!! That's right- numbers!
Wrong - a spreadsheet by definition has columns and rows of cells - whose contents could be numbers - but do not have to be - could be text - or formulas - or graphics - etc
Hmmm. Not true. Had an iMac G3 350 and went back to Windows. Apple is not so perfect. If they make enough blunders, I will return to Windows again. I have every intention of running Windows 7 on my iMac via Boot Camp. That is more of a for-sure than an upgrade to Snow Leopard.
... I'm typing this on a MS Natural Keyboard Elite (with the PS/2 to USB adapter -- archaic I know, but it works) and using a Logitech TrackMan Wheel mouse. ...
I used to use both of these, but not for some time now.
You might want to actually try the new keyboards for a while though, they really are great once you get used to the different action. I started by being forced to use one on my work computer when the first Apple aluminium keyboards came out as I had a new machine at the time, and eventually I decided they were better than the old ones.
The other day I had to use an older Apple wireless keyboard and it was so hard to get used to the idea that each and every finger press had to be exaggerated by a centimetre or more to even register! I could hardly type at all on this kind now. The Apple aluminium keyboards are the most solid feeling ones I have ever used (and I've used everything back to a Vic 20), but the travel is about a fifth or so of that on a typical keyboard. I find my typing speed, which was already impressive, has been improved substantially.
The Wireless Apple Aluminium Keyboard (which initially I never thought I would buy (because I like "clicky" keyboards and I like the number pad), ... is simply the very best keyboard I have ever used or owned by a country mile. Not because I like Apple, and not because I drink the kool-aide, just because it is.
I hardly ever use my desktop machine so I don't care what wired keyboard Apple provides. I do nearly all my work on my laptop, where I love my multitouch trackpad. I do have a Mac Mini with wireless keyboard and mouse connected to my TV in the lounge though. If you've ever tried to use a wireless mouse on your knee or the arm rest of a sofa though you'll know how absolutely essential it is for Apple to bring out a Bluetooth trackpad.
Have you tried a wireless trackball? I love mine - been using trakballs since around 1989 or so.
The market for Apple products are consumers and education, but the main use of the number pad is in business which they don't sell to as much. In an education setting, it's also important to have more desk space so the smaller keyboard makes sense that way also.
The average consumer "doesn't do numbers" and doesn't even track their finances in any appreciable way by using financial software or doing spreadsheets. Hopefully the longer keyboard will remain an option, but there are many good reasons for leaving it out from Apple's point of view.
You're totally wrong about that. Macs are very popular with small businesses, even ones that aren't graphic design studios. Many accountants and other number crunchers use Macs. There are not good reasons for Apple to leave out the number pad as the default - make it an option and that's fine.
But it's not just the number pad that's missing. The full-size arrow keys are much better, plus you have a right delete key that's in a great place. I can't imagine doing anything without the right delete key (I don't use laptops).
There are going to be a lot of unhappy people who order iMacs from Amazon or elsewhere (perhaps even in an apple Store) that get them home and find their keyboard's been decapitated.
I wish there was an option for no keyboard or mouse because I don't much care for any of the Apple input devices.
I've usually avoided first party input devices of any brand, though the mouse for my DEC was a rebrand of a Logitech that I liked.
But I really don't have a problem with this, most consumers don't seem to do much work of substance with Macs anyway, they're bought more for home use than work.
I do touch typing for letters, but I am very bad with the number row, I can touch type numbers using the number pad. As I really don't like apple's key actuation on their desktop keyboards, I just store the keyboard.
Anyway, is there really a call for wireless with number pad? I used the wireless for my home theater system, rarely need numbers for that, but for some reason, it really eats batteries.
You're totally delusional. The whole world that's has been receiving standard number blocked keyboards is wrong- and you're right.
What part of, 'but can be swapped out for one that does include a numeric keypad at no additional cost when ordering online' do you not understand? I also bet that an Apple Store would have a few of the keyboards with number pad stocked in case somebody preferred that.
I'm not- what other desktop give a crippled keyboard -out of store?
Who says that the majority of customers care about a number pad? You imply because the vast majority of desktop computers ship with one means that the majority of people actually want/need them. If the industry standard is that a computer has Windows installed, I couldn't care less about industry standards.
Have you ever written a spreadsheet?? Obviously not- to have written such an asinine post.
I have written spreadsheets but they don't scale well when you have a lot of data. They are also harder to automate. A spreadsheet usually is a dead end for that data, easy to input a limited amount of data, hard to handle if you actually want get the data out of it again. Have you ever handled matrices approaching millions of elements?
Wrong - a spreadsheet by definition has columns and rows of cells - whose contents could be numbers - but do not have to be - could be text - or formulas - or graphics - etc
WRONG -Financial spreadsheet usually have numbers . Have you ever even created one? Formulas (which reference cells which have usually have numbers in them) are usually in additional columns which give results from the data in those rows and columns filled with numbers
I purchased an iMac from an Apple Store. The sales guy asked me at the last moment if I wanted the Bluetooth? It was only fifty bucks more and I said sure. I made the mistake of not looking at it first. I get home to find out there is no numeric pad. So now if I want that option, it is going to cost me another fifty bucks to get the full-sized USB keyboard. My Bluetooth MIghty Mouse has been replaced once. The scroll wheel died. Same has happened to my second Mighty Mouse, which is gathering dust in a drawer. I am using an old Microsoft Mouse and it gives me some issues. I would use the numeric pad imbedded mouse feature some of the time, if I had the full-sized keyboard. Used it for quite some time back in the Windows 98/Me days. There is always something that will get under my skin with Apple. Guess the same is true with Microsoft as well. I would be stunned if Dell ever started to do dumb things with their keyboards though.
Comments
I love all the people on here making excuses for Apple's flub. A numbered keyboard should be included as the default- end of story. That's an industry standard for a desktop.
And you were appointed by whom of arbiter of 'industry standards'?
Jeez... I can't believe I got sucked into your endless pissing and moaning.
It really does get old dude.
As usual, YMMV. I type 80wpm on the top row.
What I don't get is people who insist on being vulgar and snipe-ish simply because a company doesn't tailor its options specifically to them.
Must be such a sad life.
Actually very happy and use my iMac for much, much more than just a typewriter.
And you were appointed by whom of arbiter of 'industry standards'?
.
I'm not- what other desktop give a crippled keyboard -out of store?
I wish there was an option for no keyboard or mouse because I don't much care for any of the Apple input devices.
Yes! For a while there I thought I was the only one who thought Apple's input devices are complete garbage.
I'm typing this on a MS Natural Keyboard Elite (with the PS/2 to USB adapter -- archaic I know, but it works) and using a Logitech TrackMan Wheel mouse. Been making very heavy use of this combination for about 12 years now and no carpal tunnel symptoms to speak of yet (knocking on my compressed particleboard desk).
The only time I use the Apple keyboard is when I need to use the key combos when booting up. And even for that my wrists hurt. And don't even mention the mighty mouse. That immediately went in the recycling bin (what a waste).
Please Apple, if you're not going to give a rats ass about ergonomics, at least give the option to forgo the keyboard and mouse for environmental reasons. Even if there's no discount (which there should be).
A spreadsheet by definition has columns and rows of numbers!! That's right- numbers!
Wrong - a spreadsheet by definition has columns and rows of cells - whose contents could be numbers - but do not have to be - could be text - or formulas - or graphics - etc
Hmmm. Not true. Had an iMac G3 350 and went back to Windows. Apple is not so perfect. If they make enough blunders, I will return to Windows again. I have every intention of running Windows 7 on my iMac via Boot Camp. That is more of a for-sure than an upgrade to Snow Leopard.
... I'm typing this on a MS Natural Keyboard Elite (with the PS/2 to USB adapter -- archaic I know, but it works) and using a Logitech TrackMan Wheel mouse. ...
I used to use both of these, but not for some time now.
You might want to actually try the new keyboards for a while though, they really are great once you get used to the different action. I started by being forced to use one on my work computer when the first Apple aluminium keyboards came out as I had a new machine at the time, and eventually I decided they were better than the old ones.
The other day I had to use an older Apple wireless keyboard and it was so hard to get used to the idea that each and every finger press had to be exaggerated by a centimetre or more to even register! I could hardly type at all on this kind now. The Apple aluminium keyboards are the most solid feeling ones I have ever used (and I've used everything back to a Vic 20), but the travel is about a fifth or so of that on a typical keyboard. I find my typing speed, which was already impressive, has been improved substantially.
The Wireless Apple Aluminium Keyboard (which initially I never thought I would buy (because I like "clicky" keyboards and I like the number pad), ... is simply the very best keyboard I have ever used or owned by a country mile. Not because I like Apple, and not because I drink the kool-aide, just because it is.
I hardly ever use my desktop machine so I don't care what wired keyboard Apple provides. I do nearly all my work on my laptop, where I love my multitouch trackpad. I do have a Mac Mini with wireless keyboard and mouse connected to my TV in the lounge though. If you've ever tried to use a wireless mouse on your knee or the arm rest of a sofa though you'll know how absolutely essential it is for Apple to bring out a Bluetooth trackpad.
Have you tried a wireless trackball? I love mine - been using trakballs since around 1989 or so.
The market for Apple products are consumers and education, but the main use of the number pad is in business which they don't sell to as much. In an education setting, it's also important to have more desk space so the smaller keyboard makes sense that way also.
The average consumer "doesn't do numbers" and doesn't even track their finances in any appreciable way by using financial software or doing spreadsheets. Hopefully the longer keyboard will remain an option, but there are many good reasons for leaving it out from Apple's point of view.
You're totally wrong about that. Macs are very popular with small businesses, even ones that aren't graphic design studios. Many accountants and other number crunchers use Macs. There are not good reasons for Apple to leave out the number pad as the default - make it an option and that's fine.
But it's not just the number pad that's missing. The full-size arrow keys are much better, plus you have a right delete key that's in a great place. I can't imagine doing anything without the right delete key (I don't use laptops).
There are going to be a lot of unhappy people who order iMacs from Amazon or elsewhere (perhaps even in an apple Store) that get them home and find their keyboard's been decapitated.
Touchscreens anytime now Apple.
I wish there was an option for no keyboard or mouse because I don't much care for any of the Apple input devices.
I've usually avoided first party input devices of any brand, though the mouse for my DEC was a rebrand of a Logitech that I liked.
But I really don't have a problem with this, most consumers don't seem to do much work of substance with Macs anyway, they're bought more for home use than work.
I do touch typing for letters, but I am very bad with the number row, I can touch type numbers using the number pad. As I really don't like apple's key actuation on their desktop keyboards, I just store the keyboard.
Anyway, is there really a call for wireless with number pad? I used the wireless for my home theater system, rarely need numbers for that, but for some reason, it really eats batteries.
You're totally delusional. The whole world that's has been receiving standard number blocked keyboards is wrong- and you're right.
What part of, 'but can be swapped out for one that does include a numeric keypad at no additional cost when ordering online' do you not understand? I also bet that an Apple Store would have a few of the keyboards with number pad stocked in case somebody preferred that.
It's a choice with an asterisk *- You don't get a choice to walk into any store and leave with the keyboard you want.
How much are you willing to bet that in an Apple Store you would not be able to get the number pad keyboard instead?
I'm not- what other desktop give a crippled keyboard -out of store?
Who says that the majority of customers care about a number pad? You imply because the vast majority of desktop computers ship with one means that the majority of people actually want/need them. If the industry standard is that a computer has Windows installed, I couldn't care less about industry standards.
Have you ever written a spreadsheet?? Obviously not- to have written such an asinine post.
I have written spreadsheets but they don't scale well when you have a lot of data. They are also harder to automate. A spreadsheet usually is a dead end for that data, easy to input a limited amount of data, hard to handle if you actually want get the data out of it again. Have you ever handled matrices approaching millions of elements?
How much are you willing to bet that in an Apple Store you would not be able to get the number pad keyboard instead?
Have you ever even ordered or bought anything from Apple before?
That would be considered a configure-to-order/custom order- it's not included in the standard box and harder to return, if I may add.
Wrong - a spreadsheet by definition has columns and rows of cells - whose contents could be numbers - but do not have to be - could be text - or formulas - or graphics - etc
WRONG -Financial spreadsheet usually have numbers . Have you ever even created one? Formulas (which reference cells which have usually have numbers in them) are usually in additional columns which give results from the data in those rows and columns filled with numbers
Why am I even bothering?