And their are even numeric key pad/calculator/mouse all-in-ones.
In any event, it takes me longer to select a keyboard and a mouse then buying a new computer. Right now, we have 5 computers running at home with 7 keyboards and 8 mice. I use two keyboards. One is a Mac and the other a Logitech. One on the desk, the other on a sliding drawer below. Big mouse used at home, mini in brief case for laptop and another at the office. And on and on and on. My son hates every one of my combos (as everything else) and my wife has returned every mouse and keyboard that I ever bought for her (just like most of her birthday and Christmas gifts)
Instead of giving us a new keyboard that nobody really wanted, why not give us a mighty mouse with a track ball that doesn't gum up and actually allows for a consistent right click ?
At best, that's not a helpful suggestion. I don't understand why people say things like this, it looks like jumping to conclusions.
I wash my hands many times a day, but mighty mouse scroll ball still gums up on occasion. As such, I don't think the scroll ball was properly designed for actual use by actual people.
Instead of giving us a new keyboard that nobody really wanted, why not give us a mighty mouse with a track ball that doesn't gum up and actually allows for a consistent right click ?
Naah - that would be too useful !
First post and that's what you have to contribute.
Why don't you clean up your desktop or mouse pad? It has to pick up the shit from somewhere. It doesn't make it all by itself.
If people had proper typing skills, they probably wouldn't miss the numeric keypad so much...
I have proper typing skills. I can type up to 100 words per minute. But the wireless and wired compact keyboards and all macbook and macbook pro keyboards do not have right hand side CTRL key.
I miss it so much when I edit in VIM exactly because I have proper typing skills. You are meant to use opposite CTRL or SHIFT key from the letter that you are typing. So for example CTRL+ A is done with right CTRL and "a" of course with left pinky. On macbook you have to resort to the incorrect and unergonomic left pinky on left CTRL (since that's the only CTRL key you have) and one of the other left hand fingers on letter a. This slows you down.
I have proper typing skills. I can type up to 100 words per minute. But the wireless and wired compact keyboards and all macbook and macbook pro keyboards do not have right hand side CTRL key.
I miss it so much when I edit in VIM exactly because I have proper typing skills. You are meant to use opposite CTRL or SHIFT key from the letter that you are typing. So for example CTRL+ A is done with right CTRL and "a" of course with left pinky. On macbook you have to resort to the incorrect and unergonomic left pinky on left CTRL (since that's the only CTRL key you have) and one of the other left hand fingers on letter a. This slows you down.
Careful. There are a number of PC keyboards that only have the Control key on the one side.
this is what i want to know, they incorperated the home, end, pg up, pg down, and forward delete buttons by using the fn key and the direction arrows and the delete.. but why cant we program the keyboard to setup some of the letters to act as numbers while holding the fn key. On my HP laptop that was what i had to do since it didnt have a numpad either.
For me I like having the numpad to help memorize numbers for banking etc. slows you down too much having to use the top row numbers, but even if we could have a numpad by having to hold fn and use the letters i would be satisfied
At best, that's not a helpful suggestion. I don't understand why people say things like this, it looks like jumping to conclusions.
I wash my hands many times a day, but mighty mouse scroll ball still gums up on occasion. As such, I don't think the scroll ball was properly designed for actual use by actual people.
Thank you, nor do I. Another bad example of form over function.
Why do I care about PC keyboards? How is this even relevant for the discussion.
In all fairness, they should work just as well on a Mac, and you get a much larger ecosystem as long as you don't mind losing out on certain features common to devices targeting the Mac market, such as the USB hub in the wired keyboards.
Why do I care about PC keyboards? How is this even relevant for the discussion.
Because you were talking about it:
Quote:
I miss it so much when I edit in VIM exactly because I have proper typing skills. You are meant to use opposite CTRL or SHIFT key from the letter that you are typing. So for example CTRL+ A is done with right CTRL and "a" of course with left pinky. On macbook you have to resort to the incorrect and unergonomic left pinky on left CTRL (since that's the only CTRL key you have) and one of the other left hand fingers on letter a. This slows you down.
I guess that explains why the Apple keyboards that I have also have Control keys. Even Apple software use control keys as part of a few hot key combinations. Also, for software referenced in the part you quoted, it's the control key that is used, not command, it's platform independent UNIX software.
I guess that explains why the Apple keyboards that I have also have Control keys. Even Apple software use control keys as part of a few hot key combinations. Also, for software referenced in the part you quoted, it's the control key that is used, not command, it's platform independent UNIX software.
He never said anything about the (Apple) Command key. It has never been called as the Control key.
He was complaining that the Mac keyboard didn't have a Control key on the right side. To which i simply informed him that there were PC keyboards that also only had a single Control key as well.
Apple has really lost the plot with this one. A couple of weeks ago I bought a 20" iMac for my wife - and was appalled by the keyboard - it is simply TOO SMALL for any prolonged use. And then things got worse - I bought the 'refreshed' 24" model for myself and found that the keyboard was even smaller. I've just switched to the mac and my old Microsoft ergonomic keyboard, which I've had for ten years or more is about 52 cms long - Apple crams slightly fewer keys into about 42.5 cms on the old model and then reduces this by getting rid of the num pad, the home and end keys, the page up and page down keys, ultimately reducing the board to only 27 cms. Oh, yes, and we also lose the additional 7 function keys.
Smart thinking, Apple - you want to know why macs don't figure in the corporations? Rubbish keyboards could just be one of the answers - these things are not built for serious work - they are designed for people who make occasional use of a computer, not for anyone spending six or more hours a day at the keyboard.
I'm going to love it when the class action for RSI gets going and Apple has to explain just what the hell it thought it was doing.
Not sure if this helps or really if its true. I called Apple and asked a few questions about the new iMac. One question was the lack of the number pad keyboard unless bought online. I was told by the person at Apple that the larger keyboard is being phased out and the option to substitute also phased out. When, I have no idea. For that reason alone I was going to order online. A key board without the number pad? Then I started thinking, I never use the number pad on a keyboard. It just should be there, in case one day I should happen to need it. Kinda a dumb reason. My two cents is Apple is cutting corners wherever they can. No remote, smaller keybaord.
... then reduces this by getting rid of the num pad, the home and end keys, the page up and page down keys, ultimately reducing the board to only 27 cms. Oh, yes, and we also lose the additional 7 function keys.
... keyboards ... designed for people who make occasional use of a computer, not for anyone spending six or more hours a day at the keyboard. ...
I agree they have a habit of pairing good advances with almost unbelievable steps backwards in various user interface/control areas.
My Dell std issue keyboard is 44cm, my 3rd party ergo keyboard is about 45cm, all with numeric keypads that I daily make use of.
To subtract keys and jam the remainder into a smaller space seems very dubious to me. One of the things the ergo technician told me at my last corporate posting was to vary hand and arm (and seat) positions. If the keyboard is so small now, and with no ability to occasionally vary hand/arm to a keypad mode, it does strike me as more confining.
I would think that the engineers who design the computer keyboards choose to use full size, not micro keyboards for themselves (just my guess, you understand )
For me, having worked with computers for years, and continuing for years more I expect, I need my primary input interfaces to be Human centric, not micro-designer-artsy.
When did it start that 'cool' now trumps human comfort and usability?
(well, if I think back to that horrible round hockey-puck mouse of the original iMac... )
Well, I guess the only upside is it's good for a thriving third-party after-market. Though overall, a waste, as part of the purchase costs go to produce, sell and buy Apple keyboards (and mice) that many will just box up, shelve, etc. (I have a whole 'stable' of Apple mice that I just do not ever use. )
(I hope I'm not starting to repeat myself... repeat myself .... )
The keyboard with num pad is just not ergonomical.
For the best typing position, the keyboard should be centered with the monitor. However, with the extended portion (about 7 inches), that pushes my mouse pad way to the right...
Pulling the mouse closer to normal typing hand position is worth giving up the keypad for me, too. I will be buying one of these keyboards! Yes, I'll miss the keypad once or twice a week, but for me, it's worth it.
I don't agree with everything Apple (i.e. their 3rd-party mouse support could use some work), but I like this product. As for people that might buy a new system without realizing they're getting the small keyboard -- Best Buy has the small keyboards plain as day on their demo systems, and the Apple web site seems pretty clear to me that the default is the narrow keyboard, and that it's a free option to get the wide keyboard. I just don't see a down-side to this new product release.
Comments
Like FireWire from the MacBook.
Firewire 400 has been out forever, it was time to let it go. Let's bring back ADC while we are at it.
Firewire 400 has been out forever, it was time to let it go. Let's bring back ADC while we are at it.
Well they could have put in a FW800 instead of removing it altogether!
Would be nice if people would stop defending every idiot move Apple makes.
Mouse is closer. Most people don't use or have minimal use of a number pad
Add a separate numeric keypad Logitech Cordless Number Pad For Notebooks http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ke.../3075&cl=ca,en
And if you look hard enough, their are numeric key pad/calculator. My accountant has this one: http://www.trust.com/products/produc...spx?item=14152
And their are even numeric key pad/calculator/mouse all-in-ones.
In any event, it takes me longer to select a keyboard and a mouse then buying a new computer. Right now, we have 5 computers running at home with 7 keyboards and 8 mice. I use two keyboards. One is a Mac and the other a Logitech. One on the desk, the other on a sliding drawer below. Big mouse used at home, mini in brief case for laptop and another at the office. And on and on and on. My son hates every one of my combos (as everything else) and my wife has returned every mouse and keyboard that I ever bought for her (just like most of her birthday and Christmas gifts)
Instead of giving us a new keyboard that nobody really wanted, why not give us a mighty mouse with a track ball that doesn't gum up and actually allows for a consistent right click ?
Naah - that would be too useful !
Wash your hands......
Wash your hands......
At best, that's not a helpful suggestion. I don't understand why people say things like this, it looks like jumping to conclusions.
I wash my hands many times a day, but mighty mouse scroll ball still gums up on occasion. As such, I don't think the scroll ball was properly designed for actual use by actual people.
Instead of giving us a new keyboard that nobody really wanted, why not give us a mighty mouse with a track ball that doesn't gum up and actually allows for a consistent right click ?
Naah - that would be too useful !
First post and that's what you have to contribute.
Why don't you clean up your desktop or mouse pad? It has to pick up the shit from somewhere. It doesn't make it all by itself.
If people had proper typing skills, they probably wouldn't miss the numeric keypad so much...
I have proper typing skills. I can type up to 100 words per minute. But the wireless and wired compact keyboards and all macbook and macbook pro keyboards do not have right hand side CTRL key.
I miss it so much when I edit in VIM exactly because I have proper typing skills. You are meant to use opposite CTRL or SHIFT key from the letter that you are typing. So for example CTRL+ A is done with right CTRL and "a" of course with left pinky. On macbook you have to resort to the incorrect and unergonomic left pinky on left CTRL (since that's the only CTRL key you have) and one of the other left hand fingers on letter a. This slows you down.
I have proper typing skills. I can type up to 100 words per minute. But the wireless and wired compact keyboards and all macbook and macbook pro keyboards do not have right hand side CTRL key.
I miss it so much when I edit in VIM exactly because I have proper typing skills. You are meant to use opposite CTRL or SHIFT key from the letter that you are typing. So for example CTRL+ A is done with right CTRL and "a" of course with left pinky. On macbook you have to resort to the incorrect and unergonomic left pinky on left CTRL (since that's the only CTRL key you have) and one of the other left hand fingers on letter a. This slows you down.
Careful. There are a number of PC keyboards that only have the Control key on the one side.
the apple bluetooth keyboard is just gorgeous.
For me I like having the numpad to help memorize numbers for banking etc. slows you down too much having to use the top row numbers, but even if we could have a numpad by having to hold fn and use the letters i would be satisfied
Careful. There are a number of PC keyboards that only have the Control key on the one side.
Why do I care about PC keyboards? How is this even relevant for the discussion.
At best, that's not a helpful suggestion. I don't understand why people say things like this, it looks like jumping to conclusions.
I wash my hands many times a day, but mighty mouse scroll ball still gums up on occasion. As such, I don't think the scroll ball was properly designed for actual use by actual people.
Thank you, nor do I. Another bad example of form over function.
Why do I care about PC keyboards? How is this even relevant for the discussion.
In all fairness, they should work just as well on a Mac, and you get a much larger ecosystem as long as you don't mind losing out on certain features common to devices targeting the Mac market, such as the USB hub in the wired keyboards.
Why do I care about PC keyboards? How is this even relevant for the discussion.
Because you were talking about it:
I miss it so much when I edit in VIM exactly because I have proper typing skills. You are meant to use opposite CTRL or SHIFT key from the letter that you are typing. So for example CTRL+ A is done with right CTRL and "a" of course with left pinky. On macbook you have to resort to the incorrect and unergonomic left pinky on left CTRL (since that's the only CTRL key you have) and one of the other left hand fingers on letter a. This slows you down.
Macs have Command keys!
PCs have Control keys.
FAH
Because you were talking about it:
Macs have Command keys!
PCs have Control keys.
FAH
?
I guess that explains why the Apple keyboards that I have also have Control keys. Even Apple software use control keys as part of a few hot key combinations. Also, for software referenced in the part you quoted, it's the control key that is used, not command, it's platform independent UNIX software.
?
I guess that explains why the Apple keyboards that I have also have Control keys. Even Apple software use control keys as part of a few hot key combinations. Also, for software referenced in the part you quoted, it's the control key that is used, not command, it's platform independent UNIX software.
He never said anything about the (Apple) Command key. It has never been called as the Control key.
He was complaining that the Mac keyboard didn't have a Control key on the right side. To which i simply informed him that there were PC keyboards that also only had a single Control key as well.
Smart thinking, Apple - you want to know why macs don't figure in the corporations? Rubbish keyboards could just be one of the answers - these things are not built for serious work - they are designed for people who make occasional use of a computer, not for anyone spending six or more hours a day at the keyboard.
I'm going to love it when the class action for RSI gets going and Apple has to explain just what the hell it thought it was doing.
Apple has really lost the plot with this one...
... then reduces this by getting rid of the num pad, the home and end keys, the page up and page down keys, ultimately reducing the board to only 27 cms. Oh, yes, and we also lose the additional 7 function keys.
... keyboards ... designed for people who make occasional use of a computer, not for anyone spending six or more hours a day at the keyboard. ...
I agree they have a habit of pairing good advances with almost unbelievable steps backwards in various user interface/control areas.
My Dell std issue keyboard is 44cm, my 3rd party ergo keyboard is about 45cm, all with numeric keypads that I daily make use of.
To subtract keys and jam the remainder into a smaller space seems very dubious to me. One of the things the ergo technician told me at my last corporate posting was to vary hand and arm (and seat) positions. If the keyboard is so small now, and with no ability to occasionally vary hand/arm to a keypad mode, it does strike me as more confining.
I would think that the engineers who design the computer keyboards choose to use full size, not micro keyboards for themselves (just my guess, you understand
For me, having worked with computers for years, and continuing for years more I expect, I need my primary input interfaces to be Human centric, not micro-designer-artsy.
When did it start that 'cool' now trumps human comfort and usability?
(well, if I think back to that horrible round hockey-puck mouse of the original iMac...
Well, I guess the only upside is it's good for a thriving third-party after-market. Though overall, a waste, as part of the purchase costs go to produce, sell and buy Apple keyboards (and mice) that many will just box up, shelve, etc. (I have a whole 'stable' of Apple mice that I just do not ever use. )
(I hope I'm not starting to repeat myself... repeat myself ....
I have to say I asked for this one.
The keyboard with num pad is just not ergonomical.
For the best typing position, the keyboard should be centered with the monitor. However, with the extended portion (about 7 inches), that pushes my mouse pad way to the right...
Pulling the mouse closer to normal typing hand position is worth giving up the keypad for me, too. I will be buying one of these keyboards! Yes, I'll miss the keypad once or twice a week, but for me, it's worth it.
I don't agree with everything Apple (i.e. their 3rd-party mouse support could use some work), but I like this product. As for people that might buy a new system without realizing they're getting the small keyboard -- Best Buy has the small keyboards plain as day on their demo systems, and the Apple web site seems pretty clear to me that the default is the narrow keyboard, and that it's a free option to get the wide keyboard. I just don't see a down-side to this new product release.