Well if Apple allowed background services, the iPhone would need to support as many apps as could be installed. What 's difficult to understand about that?
It's difficult to understand because they wouldn't have to do that at all. They would simply support as much as could fit into memory at any one time, and if the device runs out of RAM, it just closes apps down. There's absolutely no need for it to be able to have 148 apps open at once and no one is even asking for that
Well if Apple allowed background services, the iPhone would need to support as many apps as could be installed. What 's difficult to understand about that?
Pasteboard Server. Obviously, this is a major addition for background processing in iPhone 3.0.
Yeah the slow fiddly switching is one of the main problems, which would be solved by allowing them to run in the background. I can't see how else that would be fixed.
They could be kept resident in memory without actually being allocated clock cycles. Or their loaded state could be cached outside of RAM. This would make task switching require a simple transfer of data, without any actual processing required.
"Multitasking" isn't necessary for fast task switching. Not that multitasking is bad, or even undesirable, but it doesn't directly address the complaint of slow task switching. Its advantages are elsewhere. If anything, it comes with processing overhead.
That's essentially what it already does. The phone app, messaging app, mail app, and iPod app run in the background. The main app on the screen uses what ever memory is left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester
It's difficult to understand because they wouldn't have to do that at all. They would simply support as much as could fit into memory at any one time, and if the device runs out of RAM, it just closes apps down. There's absolutely no need for it to be able to have 148 apps open at once and no one is even asking for that
That's essentially what it already does. The phone app, messaging app, mail app, and iPod app run in the background. The main app on the screen uses what ever memory is left.
I think very few people realize that the Pre is not so much multi-tasking, it is more multi-paging.
Each of its apps is a web-app. WebOS is effectively a browser in which multiple pages can be open at once.
The apps run on cards (pages). And you can switch rapidly between those cards (pages)
This is similar to switching pages in Mobile Safari - except in WebOS - the apps can make much better use of local storage and local features.
Palm have devised a good inventive solution. But Web Apps have their own limitations.
C.
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Just to clarify.
I think Palm is raising the bar. I wouldn't be surprised if* this thing becomes iPhone's biggest rival in less than a year after launch for touch screen smartphone supremacy.
OBviously, it's unlikey they'll approach iPhone's/iPod touch's user base within 12 months, of course, but everything about Pre that we've seen so far shows that Palm 'gets it' about why the iPhone is a success. (As opposed to WinMo manufacturers and RIM who are still in the 'kludigng together last year's OS with this year's interface' phase of software development.)
* - and that's a big IF - one has every reason to be wary about Palm's ability to deliver on time and in quantity.
I wouldn't say Palm is raising the bar, they are simply using new technology that wasn't available when the iPhone was originally launched. Web apps will be able to run locally on the iPhone when Mobile Safari is updated with HTML 5. Any phone with a HTML 5 supported browser will have this functionality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunchable Food Product
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Just to clarify.
I think Palm is raising the bar. I wouldn't be surprised if* this thing becomes iPhone's biggest rival in less than a year after launch for touch screen smartphone supremacy.
I wouldn't say Palm is raising the bar, they are simply using new technology that wasn't available when the iPhone was originally launched.
It doesn't matter if this is new technology or not. The point is that Palm is both learning from iPhone and adding other additional interactivity and useability options. Not to mention they are agressively wooing developers, again learning from Apple's success.
So far it's all vaporware, of course. Let's see it in the wild.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Web apps will be able to run locally on the iPhone when Mobile Safari is updated with HTML 5. Any phone with a HTML 5 supported browser will have this functionality.
That's missing the point. It's not that Pre or iPhone can run web apps or not or run them locally or not--it's that Palm has chosen to orient their platform to web technologies in an effort to exploit the web-interactive attitudes of a broad swath of users. And, not so coincedentally, lower the barrier to development by using web coding tools.
I'm interested to see if this all plays out. This could be revolutionary, or it could flop on it's face.
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Isn't this exactly the way the iPhone started out? (And still is to some extent)
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Yeah - In other words they are *exactly* like Apple's web apps - but with a couple of new tricks. The apps are cached locally and can make use of local data. And of course they are built specifically for the WebOS Browser.
This is a smart approach by Palm. The WebOS approach allows Palm to move faster and deploy applications faster. The browser can easily manage multiple pages in memory at once. And if they have done stuff right, they can feed resources to the foreground page.
But before we start drooling, remember that web apps are not good for everything.
The most interesting thing about web app support is that it offers a simple way for developers to get an app running on the three major platforms (iPhone/Pre/BlackBerry) simultaneously.
Yeah - In other words they are *exactly* like Apple's web apps - but with a couple of new tricks. The apps are cached locally and can make use of local data.
Not even any new tricks as far as I know. Apple provides extended functionality to webapps on the iphone, including access to local data.
The biggest advantage of webapps is that they leverage the skills already possessed by millions of developers. Customization per platform is still key though. Screen dimensions and input handling alone would make cross-platform releases not as straight forward as they might initially seem.
this is kind pointless thread and honestly it reminds me of other threads from the past ie "ipod killer" discussions. Apple isn't nor ever will be the be all end all of any device they develop but at the same time it sounds reminds me of locker room rhetoric to talk about who's "phone is bigger than yours". Apple has many advantages not linked to the device itself namely mobile me, itunes etc. etc not to mention popularity in general (my kids haven't asked for a pre and I doubt they ever will). I owned the OG palms in the day and even had a visor phone. Palm is at best competition but no more than RIM or any windows mobile or other device.
Its likely the Home button could be a short cut to Spotlight. At the press of one button you could have access to everything on the phone.
If you set it that way, why not? But didn't they say that a "right swipe" brought Spotlight up? In other words, it lives to the left of the home screen.
As an aside, "up swipe" and "down swipe" on the home screen are free for future use...
Me, like quite a few around here, believe the Palm to be a threat to the iPhone.
One has to wonder with the millions of subscribers coming up on their 2 year contract renewal, might jump ship and try out the palm. Wondering what everyone thinks.
There is a new story on Mac Rumors that addresses this threat.
I find it ironic that Palm Pre is to Apple what AMD was (at one time), to Intel. Sure, some will retort, "well look at where AMD is now" so will nib that in the butt right away, but you have to wonder, if Palm didn't have all these features, would we see VIDEO, MMS with graphics, tethering (works jail broken), from Apple. We can only hope flash makes it as the Palm is rumored to have a full fledged FLASH player which will allow users to watch Hulu, something you can't do on the iPhone and still unsure if it will happen on the 3.0 version. More than likely, it won't work on present versions as I think the battery would die whereas newer phones will have a different battery.
Anyway, check out the story, seems to imply that there is indeed, some panic and worry. How many people bought the iPhone? I predict that unless Apple drops prices, ATT cuts prices, that the PALM PRE is really going to do some damage to Apple.
it really depends what you consider a threat. based on what i've heard...
will it steal SOME customers from iphone? sure but i think most phones are capable of doing that. not everyone in the world wants an iphone, and it's never going to happen.
will it become a more popular phone than iphone? i highly doubt it. as it stands right now apple is known for innovation. palm is not, actually palm is in deep trouble if they don't make this pre work. if they some how, manage to make this phone everything it's made out to be and more... i think it's has the possibility to be a competitor with the iphone.
it could end up being a great phone, but most high end smart phones all carry the same features. people like the iphone for it's beautiful design, ease of use, and the app store. it's going to take someone coming out with a phone, that offers a new innovative feature we've never seen before... to pull everyone away from the iphone.
Jeez, it's frigging April without a launch date or price. It's one thing when you're secretive like Apple but it's entirely another when you've been vaporing your product for since January with a "1st half 2009" release and talking about their "next generation" OS since early 2007.
How bleeding long does it take them to get a linux based phone with webkit working anyway? Sure it took Apple 30 months but geez has the Pre even been sent to the FCC yet?
Everyone seems to think Appe is about to put out the 3rd generation of iPhone* out around 6/30......and Pre is due out in 1H '09 which ends on.....6/30.
Let the battle begin! I can't tell whether Apple is deliberately trying to steal Pre's thunder, or if Palm is just that dumb to bring a media blitz knife to a media blitz gun fight.
* - Of course, they can't call it 'iPhone 3G', because the 2nd iPhone is the iPhone 3G......Maybe 'iPhone 3G3G'?
Comments
Well if Apple allowed background services, the iPhone would need to support as many apps as could be installed. What 's difficult to understand about that?
It's difficult to understand because they wouldn't have to do that at all. They would simply support as much as could fit into memory at any one time, and if the device runs out of RAM, it just closes apps down. There's absolutely no need for it to be able to have 148 apps open at once and no one is even asking for that
Well if Apple allowed background services, the iPhone would need to support as many apps as could be installed. What 's difficult to understand about that?
Pasteboard Server. Obviously, this is a major addition for background processing in iPhone 3.0.
Yeah the slow fiddly switching is one of the main problems, which would be solved by allowing them to run in the background. I can't see how else that would be fixed.
They could be kept resident in memory without actually being allocated clock cycles. Or their loaded state could be cached outside of RAM. This would make task switching require a simple transfer of data, without any actual processing required.
"Multitasking" isn't necessary for fast task switching. Not that multitasking is bad, or even undesirable, but it doesn't directly address the complaint of slow task switching. Its advantages are elsewhere. If anything, it comes with processing overhead.
It's difficult to understand because they wouldn't have to do that at all. They would simply support as much as could fit into memory at any one time, and if the device runs out of RAM, it just closes apps down. There's absolutely no need for it to be able to have 148 apps open at once and no one is even asking for that
That's essentially what it already does. The phone app, messaging app, mail app, and iPod app run in the background. The main app on the screen uses what ever memory is left.
Needs more RAM then or better optimised OS!
Each of its apps is a web-app. WebOS is effectively a browser in which multiple pages can be open at once.
The apps run on cards (pages). And you can switch rapidly between those cards (pages)
This is similar to switching pages in Mobile Safari - except in WebOS - the apps can make much better use of local storage and local features.
Palm have devised a good inventive solution. But Web Apps have their own limitations.
C.
I think very few people realize that the Pre is not so much multi-tasking, it is more multi-paging.
Each of its apps is a web-app. WebOS is effectively a browser in which multiple pages can be open at once.
The apps run on cards (pages). And you can switch rapidly between those cards (pages)
This is similar to switching pages in Mobile Safari - except in WebOS - the apps can make much better use of local storage and local features.
Palm have devised a good inventive solution. But Web Apps have their own limitations.
C.
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Just to clarify.
I think Palm is raising the bar. I wouldn't be surprised if* this thing becomes iPhone's biggest rival in less than a year after launch for touch screen smartphone supremacy.
OBviously, it's unlikey they'll approach iPhone's/iPod touch's user base within 12 months, of course, but everything about Pre that we've seen so far shows that Palm 'gets it' about why the iPhone is a success. (As opposed to WinMo manufacturers and RIM who are still in the 'kludigng together last year's OS with this year's interface' phase of software development.)
* - and that's a big IF - one has every reason to be wary about Palm's ability to deliver on time and in quantity.
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Just to clarify.
I think Palm is raising the bar. I wouldn't be surprised if* this thing becomes iPhone's biggest rival in less than a year after launch for touch screen smartphone supremacy.
I wouldn't say Palm is raising the bar, they are simply using new technology that wasn't available when the iPhone was originally launched.
It doesn't matter if this is new technology or not. The point is that Palm is both learning from iPhone and adding other additional interactivity and useability options. Not to mention they are agressively wooing developers, again learning from Apple's success.
So far it's all vaporware, of course. Let's see it in the wild.
Web apps will be able to run locally on the iPhone when Mobile Safari is updated with HTML 5. Any phone with a HTML 5 supported browser will have this functionality.
That's missing the point. It's not that Pre or iPhone can run web apps or not or run them locally or not--it's that Palm has chosen to orient their platform to web technologies in an effort to exploit the web-interactive attitudes of a broad swath of users. And, not so coincedentally, lower the barrier to development by using web coding tools.
I'm interested to see if this all plays out. This could be revolutionary, or it could flop on it's face.
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Isn't this exactly the way the iPhone started out? (And still is to some extent)
They aren't Web Apps (like Apple's Web Apps). They are apps that use the same coding as the web. They run locally - you do not have to be connect to the web to run them.
Yeah - In other words they are *exactly* like Apple's web apps - but with a couple of new tricks. The apps are cached locally and can make use of local data. And of course they are built specifically for the WebOS Browser.
This is a smart approach by Palm. The WebOS approach allows Palm to move faster and deploy applications faster. The browser can easily manage multiple pages in memory at once. And if they have done stuff right, they can feed resources to the foreground page.
But before we start drooling, remember that web apps are not good for everything.
C.
Yeah - In other words they are *exactly* like Apple's web apps - but with a couple of new tricks. The apps are cached locally and can make use of local data.
Not even any new tricks as far as I know. Apple provides extended functionality to webapps on the iphone, including access to local data.
The biggest advantage of webapps is that they leverage the skills already possessed by millions of developers. Customization per platform is still key though. Screen dimensions and input handling alone would make cross-platform releases not as straight forward as they might initially seem.
Its likely the Home button could be a short cut to Spotlight. At the press of one button you could have access to everything on the phone.
If you set it that way, why not? But didn't they say that a "right swipe" brought Spotlight up? In other words, it lives to the left of the home screen.
As an aside, "up swipe" and "down swipe" on the home screen are free for future use...
Me, like quite a few around here, believe the Palm to be a threat to the iPhone.
One has to wonder with the millions of subscribers coming up on their 2 year contract renewal, might jump ship and try out the palm. Wondering what everyone thinks.
There is a new story on Mac Rumors that addresses this threat.
http://www.macrumors.com/
I find it ironic that Palm Pre is to Apple what AMD was (at one time), to Intel. Sure, some will retort, "well look at where AMD is now" so will nib that in the butt right away, but you have to wonder, if Palm didn't have all these features, would we see VIDEO, MMS with graphics, tethering (works jail broken), from Apple. We can only hope flash makes it as the Palm is rumored to have a full fledged FLASH player which will allow users to watch Hulu, something you can't do on the iPhone and still unsure if it will happen on the 3.0 version. More than likely, it won't work on present versions as I think the battery would die whereas newer phones will have a different battery.
Anyway, check out the story, seems to imply that there is indeed, some panic and worry. How many people bought the iPhone? I predict that unless Apple drops prices, ATT cuts prices, that the PALM PRE is really going to do some damage to Apple.
it really depends what you consider a threat. based on what i've heard...
will it steal SOME customers from iphone? sure but i think most phones are capable of doing that. not everyone in the world wants an iphone, and it's never going to happen.
will it become a more popular phone than iphone? i highly doubt it. as it stands right now apple is known for innovation. palm is not, actually palm is in deep trouble if they don't make this pre work. if they some how, manage to make this phone everything it's made out to be and more... i think it's has the possibility to be a competitor with the iphone.
it could end up being a great phone, but most high end smart phones all carry the same features. people like the iphone for it's beautiful design, ease of use, and the app store. it's going to take someone coming out with a phone, that offers a new innovative feature we've never seen before... to pull everyone away from the iphone.
How bleeding long does it take them to get a linux based phone with webkit working anyway? Sure it took Apple 30 months but geez has the Pre even been sent to the FCC yet?
Let the battle begin! I can't tell whether Apple is deliberately trying to steal Pre's thunder, or if Palm is just that dumb to bring a media blitz knife to a media blitz gun fight.
* - Of course, they can't call it 'iPhone 3G', because the 2nd iPhone is the iPhone 3G......Maybe 'iPhone 3G3G'?
Cupertino doesn't publicly show off new OS features three months in advance for any other reason.
Most people still haven't realized there is a deeply personal element to the Apple/Palm rivalry now.
Apple is obviously trying to steal some of the Pre's thunder.
Cupertino doesn't publicly show off new OS features three months in advance for any other reason.
You clearly missed the point of this event. It was going to happen without the Pre.