Yeah, I'm not seeing the competition-for-the-sake-of-vendetta angle either. It seems more likely that they're both more motivated to make successful products rather than to beat eachother.
Yeah, I'm not seeing the competition-for-the-sake-of-vendetta angle either. It seems more likely that they're both more motivated to make successful products rather than to beat eachother.
But even given that, there is some wiggle room to be first to announce vs. second. Which would you rather do if you were Palm? Or if you were Apple?
The iPhone OS 2.0 SDK beta was announced on March 6, 2008. iPhone 2.0 was released on July 11, 2008.
Just like with OS X, Apple issues beta's of software to give developers the ability to build their apps using the new tools before Apple releases the new OS to the public.
You guys give the Pre way too much credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
Apple is obviously trying to steal some of the Pre's thunder.
Cupertino doesn't publicly show off new OS features three months in advance for any other reason.
Most people still haven't realized there is a deeply personal element to the Apple/Palm rivalry now.
Is that early or late? Palm has been trying to build a replacement to Palm OS 5 since 2004.
I dunno. That article seems to be putting the best possible face on things (it's a Pre fan site, I guess, so that's not surprising).
I think we can scrub "mid-April" as a potential release window, Sprint employees training schedules notwithstanding.
And no price set yet? If the thing's actually a few weeks out from release, how does that make any sense?
Maybe Palm wants to stun us all by abruptly dropping the Pre into stores with no warning, but that seems like a missed marketing opportunity.
My guess is that there are still some issues to be ironed out, they're working frantically to do so, but they don't want to miss an announced deadline (since Palm is already swimming upstream re the perception of their ability to execute, and any bad news at all on this front could be disastrous), so they're just sort of vamping, at this point, until they can be sure they have a deliverable product.
These sorts of "leaks" (they're training the staff! Any minute now!) can buy several more months of buzz, but if they don't have some kind of dates and prices by then I think people are going to start getting really antsy.
I dunno. That article seems to be putting the best possible face on things (it's a Pre fan site, I guess, so that's not surprising).
I think we can scrub "mid-April" as a potential release window, Sprint employees training schedules notwithstanding.
...
These sorts of "leaks" (they're training the staff! Any minute now!) can buy several more months of buzz, but if they don't have some kind of dates and prices by then I think people are going to start getting really antsy.
Even with Apple you get the "there is a shipload of new hardware leaving China as we speak" kind of rumors. They're even sometimes true.
Given the current date and a cursory glance at the state of the pre rumormill I'm thinking that May 17 date is not happening. That probably means that June 29 date is going to be what they are shooting for unless they want to do a paper launch.
Which would be bleeding stupid except that Palm is bleeding money.
For me at least, the Palm Pre does offer a lot of things the iPhone isn't doing right now....until 3.0 comes out and then what you have is another platform. People swore that the Storm was an iPhone killer and that the G1 was an iPhone killer but you can't beat the integration of the App Store along with the easy to use interface that Apple put together. It will be very hard for a company to try to surpass Apple. The iPhone has been doing this good even without Copy and Paste, Tethering, Bluetooth connectivity and landscape writing so 3.0 will sky rocket the iPhone even higher.
Say, remember when Android was going to run roughshod over the iPhone because of the might of Google and because the coolness of open source would attract lots and lots of super innovative developers who had no interest in laboring in Apple's crypto-fascist salt mines because a non-locked down phone would fly free and very quickly be able to do all the iPhone could and more, on account of the openness and coolness and Google? And how a lot of people decided that before they really ever got a look at an actual phone?
I'm just tired of all this talk with all these supposed iphone killers. There have been so many I can't even recall them from the Instinct, HTC Diamond, Sony Xperia, G1, Storm, Nokia 5800, Nokia N97, and now we have the Palm Pre. I guess this is the new talk of the week. We'll soon been tossing this one into the bin with all the iphone killers.
Everyone I know that owns an iPhone absolutely loves it. It is not the innovative design, but the app store that will keep users on the iphone.
Palm will get some users that were considering purchasing their first iPhone, but there will only be a small percentage that will dump their iPhone for a Pre.
Okay well younsay apps. K. What if pre has flash? This would mean MLN subscribers could watch full baseballngames on their phone this from talking to a few friends that love baseball would be an instant sale and while MLB has a iPhone app, plus a new hd MLB channel, they would realease apps fir the pre. This is just one example. Plus flash and the other things flash can do such as high quality, yet small video size means many website created for the pre.
As it us now you can use the phone with one computer only. What if the ore allows you to such to many computer in addition to adobe websites or cloud computing. Plus you won't have all the restrictions that the app store has. I see many who were turned away going to ore(developers) and imagine if teethering due to 4g was available fir cheap or free I'd jail broken easy without bricking you phone I'd worse, an unlocked pre that you could swap the sim card.
My take is that Oalm will address every shortcoming if the iPhone and this is why Apple is scrambling to ad ccpaste, video ( but for .mac, cough cough I mean mm), where palm might have no restrictions at all.
Palm knows they have an open window with millions if users about to have their two contract expire. I think Palm is going to wait until June 29th and release a monster if a phone. Equally mobile windows 6.5 which looks like an iPhone os in ease of use may be a huge problem fir Apple. But as others have said, this is all great for us, the consumer. Even in a worse case scenario where apple AT&T loses millions, it may force apple to reakse better computers, in fact, they may release the tablet netbook to garner those that may have expired and go to the Palm Pre. Slot depends in price
Look fir the tablet to work well with net, iPhone and existing macs. This is how they will do it inorder tomake up for lost iPhone sales as you willnhave iPhone users who want more out of their phone and the possible tablet may deliver on a faster network
Late, time fir bed and typing on iPhone. Sooty for grammar and spelling. Time to pet my wonderful kitties and love my newlywed wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Yes ...I'm a fan of technology and if Palm can deliver undeniable techlust worthy hardware hell I'm happy. But I grow tired of the astroturfing and viral marketing fluff that happens on boards.
"XXX product is a threat to yyyy product? What is yyyyy product gonna do?"
That's about an uncritical as you can get.
With the iPhone I have
1. Support of my music collection and iTunes an app i'm very comfy with.
2. More apps than I can ever hope to download
3. Cachet ---hey it accounts for something
4. Active development. Apple hasn't stopped improving this phone.
5. MobileMe syncing and Cloud goodness
For a competitor it's going to take them being superior in %75 of the aformentioned attributes for me to look at them.
It's going to take more than "it has background processes" or "a physical keyboard" for me to ooh and aaah.
Mobile me costs $100 a year. Free is better. Am seeing a lot of reasons this Palm could succeed.
The reason some were addressed in 3.0 was due to Palm in the first place. Just like AMDS first Athlon and probably why Palm is waiting so they can continue to create even better phones.
Also the reason a tablet may come out on non AT&T top make up lost revenue from the millions who's contract expire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Multi-tasking on a 3.5" screen? It's a phone with limited display capabilities. You're sounding like a marketer who really isn't confident in the product that you speak about.
You claim superiority and toss out "synergy" and "cards" and while that sounds exciting you offer no insight as to what benefits these bring.
Pre uses the Palm® Synergy? feature to bring your Outlook®,2 Google, and Facebook® calendars together for one logical view of your day. And if you have the same contacts in different places, Pre can link them together, making it easy to find the information you need.
Why on God's Green Earth (GGE) would I disperse my calendar info across 3 or more services? Why would I do the same with my contacts when Addressbook allows me to group contacts by arbitrary values I decide. I can create a Facebook group and easily view this content without stranding my data across services and hoping for some aggregation tool to piece it back together for me.
A iPhone with a MobileMe account backing it up removes the need for Synergy based on Palm's definition of the technology.
Cards
Keep multiple applications open and move easily between them?email, maps, photos, websites, whatever.3 Pre thinks of your applications as "activity cards," and lets you flip through them, move them around, or throw them off screen.
Sounds great but I need to know what the underbelly of running apps brings me. What's my battery life going to be like? For me personally I doubt that i'm going to need maps or photos available at a moments notice. Having the web available is something I could see as well as email. The only limitation I can see with push notification in the place of background processes is wanting to stream music whilst you surf.
The reason some were addressed in 3.0 was due to Palm in the first place. Just like AMDS first Athlon and probably why Palm is waiting so they can continue to create even better phones.
I am pretty sure Apple is keeping an eye on the competition, but for me the 3.0 announcements showed that Apple is keeping it's own roadmap and it's own pace of development. The assumption that the Pre had measurable impact on the iPhone 3.0 features is Palm's fanboys wet dream.
As I mentioned before, the only hope for Palm is to be acquired by Microsoft, Dell or other big player.
All this Palm hype resembles me the Zune hype before it was released. Zune failed miserably despite Microsoft's big pockets. One of the greatest mistakes the Zune fans were making was that they were comparing the old iPod with the future Zune. There was also on assumption that Zune will kill the iPod on price. Pretty much the same here. Now, Pre + Sprint is going to be a killer? Give me a break!
I am pretty sure Apple is keeping an eye on the competition, but for me the 3.0 announcements showed that Apple is keeping it's own roadmap and it's own pace of development. The assumption that the Pre had measurable impact on the iPhone 3.0 features is Palm's fanboys wet dream.
As I mentioned before, the only hope for Palm is to be acquired by Microsoft, Dell or other big player.
All this Palm hype resembles me the Zune hype before it was released. Zune failed miserably despite Microsoft's big pockets. One of the greatest mistakes the Zune fans were making was that they were comparing the old iPod with the future Zune. There was also on assumption that Zune will kill the iPod on price. Pretty much the same here. Now, Pre + Sprint is going to be a killer? Give me a break!
First, OT, is there a way to scroll to the bottom with iPhone, if not, who doesn't want that feature? I mean, really, your finger gets a good workout scrolling to the bottom only to go so fast you hit the top AGAING and have it snap back to top. Kid you not though, once, I had my hand in the iPhone and touched somewhere in the bottom and it snapped to the bottom. Havnt been able to reproduce. Ideas?
Back to topic. I'm certainly not saying verizon or sprint Palm killer. What I am saying is thatthere are two scenarios coming, possibly. One is, a full fledged FLASH phone means lots of games, streaming video, way morethan QuickTime, better video size, heck, even MLB has a HD steam at 480mbits per sec or 48k, I think still, that apple fears flash due to app store. Plus you have dozens of developer, turned away from app store and millions if iPhone users who's contracts expire. If the pre is played right and turns out to not be vsporware, it will gain iPhone adaptors. Additionally, I think the pre could be the best streaming phone out there especially if they dont have to worry about the iTunes video store and plays all hulu content and partners with netflix, slingbox, Apple on the other hand, still keeps the iPhone closed ended in that content has to be from iTunes or in QuickTime. Flash is smaller and looks great. Case point, look at MLB.com, HD streamed in flash not to mention all the divx movies that look great on a 24" let alone a 3.5 " screen.
The other could be, apple knows this and wants to bring the streaming content, at least from a mac POV meaning osx, flip4mac and feels AT&T isn't there yet so releases a tablet that fills this gap until AT&T opens up a bit more. Personally, I hope att gets cornered and has to drop there prices esepcially since things like text cost zero $$$$ and uses unused sections of the telcom lines to deliver. I think everyone else agrees data package priced to high. Again, if Palm plays this right and is not vaporware and has the right partners, it could do well. For now it's all smoke and mirrors.
Comments
Yeah, I'm not seeing the competition-for-the-sake-of-vendetta angle either. It seems more likely that they're both more motivated to make successful products rather than to beat eachother.
But even given that, there is some wiggle room to be first to announce vs. second. Which would you rather do if you were Palm? Or if you were Apple?
Just like with OS X, Apple issues beta's of software to give developers the ability to build their apps using the new tools before Apple releases the new OS to the public.
You guys give the Pre way too much credit.
Apple is obviously trying to steal some of the Pre's thunder.
Cupertino doesn't publicly show off new OS features three months in advance for any other reason.
Most people still haven't realized there is a deeply personal element to the Apple/Palm rivalry now.
Pre might be here before iPhone 3......
It is kinda like bmw having a bmw vs mercedes poll on the bmw website. Yeah, like those numbers mean anything.
The poll on the sidebar of that page is comical.
It is kinda like bmw having a bmw vs mercedes poll on the bmw website. Yeah, like those numbers mean anything.
Heh. didn't even notice that......
http://www.prethinking.com/home/2009...launch-is.html
Pre might be here before iPhone 3......
Is that early or late? Palm has been trying to build a replacement to Palm OS 5 since 2004.
I dunno. That article seems to be putting the best possible face on things (it's a Pre fan site, I guess, so that's not surprising).
I think we can scrub "mid-April" as a potential release window, Sprint employees training schedules notwithstanding.
And no price set yet? If the thing's actually a few weeks out from release, how does that make any sense?
Maybe Palm wants to stun us all by abruptly dropping the Pre into stores with no warning, but that seems like a missed marketing opportunity.
My guess is that there are still some issues to be ironed out, they're working frantically to do so, but they don't want to miss an announced deadline (since Palm is already swimming upstream re the perception of their ability to execute, and any bad news at all on this front could be disastrous), so they're just sort of vamping, at this point, until they can be sure they have a deliverable product.
These sorts of "leaks" (they're training the staff! Any minute now!) can buy several more months of buzz, but if they don't have some kind of dates and prices by then I think people are going to start getting really antsy.
I dunno. That article seems to be putting the best possible face on things (it's a Pre fan site, I guess, so that's not surprising).
I think we can scrub "mid-April" as a potential release window, Sprint employees training schedules notwithstanding.
...
These sorts of "leaks" (they're training the staff! Any minute now!) can buy several more months of buzz, but if they don't have some kind of dates and prices by then I think people are going to start getting really antsy.
Even with Apple you get the "there is a shipload of new hardware leaving China as we speak" kind of rumors. They're even sometimes true.
Given the current date and a cursory glance at the state of the pre rumormill I'm thinking that May 17 date is not happening. That probably means that June 29 date is going to be what they are shooting for unless they want to do a paper launch.
Which would be bleeding stupid except that Palm is bleeding money.
my angle is that you buy a big dollar phone and the network goes to bankrupcy
you invest in a new high dollar phone on HYPE ALONE and the phone company goes bankrupt
i can't include pre in my decision process till its reviewed in the wild
as macdailynews says its take over bait.
so you hope that a weak network doesn't go down or a weak company can't afford further development
its been said before many many many many....did i say many? times
they both have issues and hanging your hopes on these stars may be dubious
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/20853/
No? Carry on.
Everyone I know that owns an iPhone absolutely loves it. It is not the innovative design, but the app store that will keep users on the iphone.
Palm will get some users that were considering purchasing their first iPhone, but there will only be a small percentage that will dump their iPhone for a Pre.
Okay well younsay apps. K. What if pre has flash? This would mean MLN subscribers could watch full baseballngames on their phone this from talking to a few friends that love baseball would be an instant sale and while MLB has a iPhone app, plus a new hd MLB channel, they would realease apps fir the pre. This is just one example. Plus flash and the other things flash can do such as high quality, yet small video size means many website created for the pre.
Just a thought.
As it us now you can use the phone with one computer only. What if the ore allows you to such to many computer in addition to adobe websites or cloud computing. Plus you won't have all the restrictions that the app store has. I see many who were turned away going to ore(developers) and imagine if teethering due to 4g was available fir cheap or free I'd jail broken easy without bricking you phone I'd worse, an unlocked pre that you could swap the sim card.
My take is that Oalm will address every shortcoming if the iPhone and this is why Apple is scrambling to ad ccpaste, video ( but for .mac, cough cough I mean mm), where palm might have no restrictions at all.
Palm knows they have an open window with millions if users about to have their two contract expire. I think Palm is going to wait until June 29th and release a monster if a phone. Equally mobile windows 6.5 which looks like an iPhone os in ease of use may be a huge problem fir Apple. But as others have said, this is all great for us, the consumer. Even in a worse case scenario where apple AT&T loses millions, it may force apple to reakse better computers, in fact, they may release the tablet netbook to garner those that may have expired and go to the Palm Pre. Slot depends in price
Look fir the tablet to work well with net, iPhone and existing macs. This is how they will do it inorder tomake up for lost iPhone sales as you willnhave iPhone users who want more out of their phone and the possible tablet may deliver on a faster network
Late, time fir bed and typing on iPhone. Sooty for grammar and spelling. Time to pet my wonderful kitties and love my newlywed wife.
Yes ...I'm a fan of technology and if Palm can deliver undeniable techlust worthy hardware hell I'm happy. But I grow tired of the astroturfing and viral marketing fluff that happens on boards.
"XXX product is a threat to yyyy product? What is yyyyy product gonna do?"
That's about an uncritical as you can get.
With the iPhone I have
1. Support of my music collection and iTunes an app i'm very comfy with.
2. More apps than I can ever hope to download
3. Cachet ---hey it accounts for something
4. Active development. Apple hasn't stopped improving this phone.
5. MobileMe syncing and Cloud goodness
For a competitor it's going to take them being superior in %75 of the aformentioned attributes for me to look at them.
It's going to take more than "it has background processes" or "a physical keyboard" for me to ooh and aaah.
The reason some were addressed in 3.0 was due to Palm in the first place. Just like AMDS first Athlon and probably why Palm is waiting so they can continue to create even better phones.
Also the reason a tablet may come out on non AT&T top make up lost revenue from the millions who's contract expire.
Multi-tasking on a 3.5" screen? It's a phone with limited display capabilities. You're sounding like a marketer who really isn't confident in the product that you speak about.
You claim superiority and toss out "synergy" and "cards" and while that sounds exciting you offer no insight as to what benefits these bring.
Palm
Synergy
Pre uses the Palm® Synergy? feature to bring your Outlook®,2 Google, and Facebook® calendars together for one logical view of your day. And if you have the same contacts in different places, Pre can link them together, making it easy to find the information you need.
Why on God's Green Earth (GGE) would I disperse my calendar info across 3 or more services? Why would I do the same with my contacts when Addressbook allows me to group contacts by arbitrary values I decide. I can create a Facebook group and easily view this content without stranding my data across services and hoping for some aggregation tool to piece it back together for me.
A iPhone with a MobileMe account backing it up removes the need for Synergy based on Palm's definition of the technology.
Cards
Keep multiple applications open and move easily between them?email, maps, photos, websites, whatever.3 Pre thinks of your applications as "activity cards," and lets you flip through them, move them around, or throw them off screen.
Sounds great but I need to know what the underbelly of running apps brings me. What's my battery life going to be like? For me personally I doubt that i'm going to need maps or photos available at a moments notice. Having the web available is something I could see as well as email. The only limitation I can see with push notification in the place of background processes is wanting to stream music whilst you surf.
Thanks
The reason some were addressed in 3.0 was due to Palm in the first place. Just like AMDS first Athlon and probably why Palm is waiting so they can continue to create even better phones.
I am pretty sure Apple is keeping an eye on the competition, but for me the 3.0 announcements showed that Apple is keeping it's own roadmap and it's own pace of development. The assumption that the Pre had measurable impact on the iPhone 3.0 features is Palm's fanboys wet dream.
As I mentioned before, the only hope for Palm is to be acquired by Microsoft, Dell or other big player.
All this Palm hype resembles me the Zune hype before it was released. Zune failed miserably despite Microsoft's big pockets. One of the greatest mistakes the Zune fans were making was that they were comparing the old iPod with the future Zune. There was also on assumption that Zune will kill the iPod on price. Pretty much the same here. Now, Pre + Sprint is going to be a killer? Give me a break!
I am pretty sure Apple is keeping an eye on the competition, but for me the 3.0 announcements showed that Apple is keeping it's own roadmap and it's own pace of development. The assumption that the Pre had measurable impact on the iPhone 3.0 features is Palm's fanboys wet dream.
As I mentioned before, the only hope for Palm is to be acquired by Microsoft, Dell or other big player.
All this Palm hype resembles me the Zune hype before it was released. Zune failed miserably despite Microsoft's big pockets. One of the greatest mistakes the Zune fans were making was that they were comparing the old iPod with the future Zune. There was also on assumption that Zune will kill the iPod on price. Pretty much the same here. Now, Pre + Sprint is going to be a killer? Give me a break!
First, OT, is there a way to scroll to the bottom with iPhone, if not, who doesn't want that feature? I mean, really, your finger gets a good workout scrolling to the bottom only to go so fast you hit the top AGAING and have it snap back to top. Kid you not though, once, I had my hand in the iPhone and touched somewhere in the bottom and it snapped to the bottom. Havnt been able to reproduce. Ideas?
Back to topic. I'm certainly not saying verizon or sprint Palm killer. What I am saying is thatthere are two scenarios coming, possibly. One is, a full fledged FLASH phone means lots of games, streaming video, way morethan QuickTime, better video size, heck, even MLB has a HD steam at 480mbits per sec or 48k, I think still, that apple fears flash due to app store. Plus you have dozens of developer, turned away from app store and millions if iPhone users who's contracts expire. If the pre is played right and turns out to not be vsporware, it will gain iPhone adaptors. Additionally, I think the pre could be the best streaming phone out there especially if they dont have to worry about the iTunes video store and plays all hulu content and partners with netflix, slingbox, Apple on the other hand, still keeps the iPhone closed ended in that content has to be from iTunes or in QuickTime. Flash is smaller and looks great. Case point, look at MLB.com, HD streamed in flash not to mention all the divx movies that look great on a 24" let alone a 3.5 " screen.
The other could be, apple knows this and wants to bring the streaming content, at least from a mac POV meaning osx, flip4mac and feels AT&T isn't there yet so releases a tablet that fills this gap until AT&T opens up a bit more. Personally, I hope att gets cornered and has to drop there prices esepcially since things like text cost zero $$$$ and uses unused sections of the telcom lines to deliver. I think everyone else agrees data package priced to high. Again, if Palm plays this right and is not vaporware and has the right partners, it could do well. For now it's all smoke and mirrors.