New Palm Pre apps underscore Apple's iPhone limitations

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  • Reply 21 of 212
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Hey trollboy, the Pre would be pretty fucked without Apple's contribution to WebKit.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.



    I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.



    I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.



    Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.



  • Reply 22 of 212
    jeffharrisjeffharris Posts: 629member
    Quote:

    I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    And the rotary dial on my old phone kept my wrist nicely toned.



    LOL, moving right along . . .



    Didn't other activities give you an iron-strong wrist?



    Actually, a stylus IS a nice thing for text entry.



    Since my fingertip covers 6 letters (or more!) on the iPod touch keypad, I OFTEN mis-type. I got a Pogo Sketch stylus and it's pretty nice, not perfect. The only drawbacks are where to keep it and having to push a little harder to trigger a letter. But, I just seem to type faster and more confidently with it.



    A finger isn't ALWAYS the best tool.
  • Reply 23 of 212
    As a consumer and not a developer, Palm has still successfully avoided answering every question I deem important in my buying decisions. The price, the cost of contract, release date and finally battery life. Until amy of these questions are answered I really barely care about this "hype" palm is spinning. The pandora concept is very enviable, just last night I was sad I couldn't play pandora and surf the net, but at least I use my device all day and rarely am concerned with the battery. Talk about something important palm, this is ridiculous.
  • Reply 24 of 212
    I can't decide which is worst. The bias in this so called article (puts Apple to shame is so wrong on so many levels) or the lousy photography. Not a single picture is properly focused. WTF AI. This is ZDnet quality.
  • Reply 25 of 212
    mobiusmobius Posts: 378member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by der passant View Post


    I can't decide which is worst. The bias in this so called article (puts Apple to shame is so wrong on so many levels) or the lousy photography. Not a single picture is properly focused. WTF AI. This is ZDnet quality.



    It also doesn't seem to have been spell-checked:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    ...interpreting code within tjhird-party apps...



    \
  • Reply 26 of 212
    applesauce007applesauce007 Posts: 1,654member
    1. The "Card" paradigm is a glorified task manager that make switching apps easier but I am convinced that you forget to quit your apps it will drain your battery and it will degrade performance.



    2. The "Synergy" integrated contacts and other environments I think will pollute user data with extraneous information and lead to confusion. It may also provide an automation facility for viruses and worms.



    3. Take a close look at the Cut-Copy-Paste procedures and capabilities on the iPhone against all other phones including the Pre and you will have to agree that it is well worth the wait. By the way the Pre has no "accurate" method of selecting text using the touch screen. From the demos that I have seen, it should be called "swipe and pray".



    3. The "keyboard". I find Apple's virtual keyboards much easier to use than other physical keyboards. I can easily tap the correct keys using my thumb while single handedly holding the phone. Have you ever tried to dial a phone number or an alpha-numeric number on a non-TouchScreen blackberry? Trust me, it's a nightmare. The Pre does have a key pad but the keyboard looks just like a blackberry.



    Overall, I think the Pre touchscreen UI looks nicer than many other touchscreen phones but I also think that the engineers were allowed to play "cowboy" and implement some wild UI features that are really not consistent because Palm was desperate for something new and flashy.



    Time will tell.
  • Reply 27 of 212
    miromiro Posts: 1member
    This is a pretty interesting article. My last 3 phones have been WinMo phones (5, 6, and currently 6.1). While WinMo does take a constant bashing, I don't really find anything wrong with it for the most part. There are outstanding WinMo phones out there by HTC, Samsung, etc that put their own finger gesture UI on top of WinMo so for the most part you don't have to deal with WinMo directly. I do like that I have a bit more control of WinMo without having to jailbreak it, but I also enjoy the various cooked ROMs available.I do think there are some advantages of WinMo over the iPhone, but I'm sure that's been covered ad nauseum but I wanted to drop my 2 cents. My point it, I have the first gen iPod Touch and I absolutely love it.



    The Palm Pre is definitely interesting, but it's not the phone for me and isn't that what it's really going to come down to -- personal preference? Even though I've been using WinMo phones, I rarely use it the way it's intended - as a business centric phone. While it's capable of playing music, I use it mainly as a phone and for texting. Why did I get a beefier phone over a phone that's designed specifically for texting? I like the robustness of WinMo and experimenting with apps and ROMs.



    I agree about backgrounding and I'm not sure how useful it'll be to the general public. There are a fair share of iPhone/Touch apps that let you listen to your own music while you're using the app, but just all apps seems to do a "save state" when you hit the Home button anyway, so isn't that essentially like running multiple apps? It's not true backgrounding, but the result is the same. You're minimizing (or in Apple's case, closing) one app to work in another. But when you come back to the previous app, you're still at the same point you were. It's not like Windows or OS X where you can balance multiple windows on your screen and do several things at once. Apple's allowing the essential processes to run background in 3.0 but I can see where listening to music while doing something on the phone comes in handy (train/bus commutes, etc), but I think most people, especially the younger generation, are accustomed to carrying more than one device anyway. They may be listening to an older gen iPod while playing their NDS or PSP. I play a ton of games on my Touch but I don't even listen to the sound effects as the games don't require it.



    I do hope the 3.2mp camera in the next iPhone is just a rumor. You'd think it would be at least 5mp by now, but I rarely take pics or video with my phone anyway so it's not a big deal. I hear video recording is insanely popular in overseas but again, I've had no real need for it personally.



    The Pre is no doubt great for competition and looks speedy as hell. I haven't been impressed with many Blackberries but I have no reason to use them. And because I love my Touch so much, I've pretty much already decided my next phone will be the next iPhone. The 3.0 software is introducing some greatly needed enhancements and that's pretty much all I'll need. The App Store is great and the apps are cheap (vs WinMo apps where some can cost up to $40 or more). I've never been a fan of iTunes but the later versions do exactly what I need to do, and that's sync my Touch.



    Palm was actually pretty smart. They let Apple come up with a great interface and developed their own phone. Let someone else come up with the design and then build on it. Not saying Palm copied Apple's design, but they definitely learned from it.



    The Palm doesn't look very thin. After carrying 3 generations of HTC phones in my pocket, I'm ready for something thinner. But I am liking the looks and features of the HTC Touch Pro 2.



    Okay, I think I've babbled enough and I hope I said something useful lol Oh yeah, the Pre's Touchstone charging looks fantastic. There's a demo video online somewhere (intomobile I think?) and it was pretty cool. You just set the Pre on the charger (I think the guy said it was slightly magnetized to hold it in place) but if you got a call, the speaker phone automatically initiated. If you pull the phone off the charger while still on the call, the phone automatically switches to the receiver. If you place it back on the charger, it switches back to speaker.
  • Reply 28 of 212
    wheelhotwheelhot Posts: 465member
    Lol, congrats iLad, you are the first iPhone troll we found!!! Woo hoo!!!, we always see Windows Trolls around here but rarely iPhone trolls. Go back to your mud swamp troll!



    Anyway, I must say there are some points that Palm made will throw a few punches at Apple but that doesn't mean Apple is not doing anything right also, its very good that Apple is doing its best to prevent malware or spyware by being totally controlling over 3rd Party Apps, of course developers will whine here and there when their apps get rejected but which one will we prefer? A almost/complete malware/virus free environment but restrictive or a free environment but full of craps? I I prefer the earlier one.
  • Reply 29 of 212
    res08haores08hao Posts: 114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ilad View Post


    the iphone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient treo 650 or even my prehistoric treo 600.



    I have a treo 650 running palm os and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in palm desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by sprint.



    I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iphone hardware and os can handle it or can it? The only thing my treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What bs from apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.



    Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the pre.



    yes, doofus, please do. And don't post here again.
  • Reply 30 of 212
    doroteadorotea Posts: 323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.



    Isn't it nice that the marketplace provides different products for people with different requirements. My most important features are music, movies games, tons of apps on a lovely and vibrant screen. My wants and desires are different than yours.
  • Reply 31 of 212
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post


    Didn't other activities give you an iron-strong wrist?



    Actually, a stylus IS a nice thing for text entry.



    Since my fingertip covers 6 letters (or more!) on the iPod touch keypad, I OFTEN mis-type. I got a Pogo Sketch stylus and it's pretty nice, not perfect. The only drawbacks are where to keep it and having to push a little harder to trigger a letter. But, I just seem to type faster and more confidently with it.



    A finger isn't ALWAYS the best tool.



    Hehe . . . well if you've got fingertips that are a bit too meaty, then I can understand your position. Typing on the iPhone can be tricky.
  • Reply 32 of 212
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post


    battery life.



    Agreed, I'd love some actual info on this.
  • Reply 33 of 212
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,234member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies.....



    ... and other such trash..



    you need help
  • Reply 34 of 212
    Quote:

    But by requiring an active Internet connection and declining to let the programs themselves run, Apple has not only denied the system to iPhone and iPod touch owners without Internet links but has prevented games and some other non-alert programs from running as expected.



    I'm not clear what this sentence from the article means.
  • Reply 35 of 212
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    The biggest thing it really prevents is device emulation and it means no way to legitimately put a SNES emulator or ScummVM emulator on the iphone. The game manufacturers could make a whole load more revenue from say Donkey Kong running on the iphone.



    Donkey Kong came out in 1994. People who are 15 now, may have missed the franchise entirely. They are available through Nintendo's virtual console thing but the iphone/ipod touch is a big market.



    While that is currently an issue I can see allowing select developers access to emulation. Especially now that they are allowing in app purchases. For instance, running an Atari emulator from Atari that allows you to purchase hundreds of their games from within the emulator app. This seems like a revenue stream that Apple won't want to pass up in the long run.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    I think the direction that Palm has taken with the Pre is smart, but it has its own limitations.



    The Pre really only runs one App at a time. In fact it only has one app.

    It runs a Webkit based browser, which can make use of data cached on the device.



    The contacts page, the email interface are all just web-apps. Specialized web pages.



    Here is a screenshot of the iPhone doing the same, but without the Apple-funded WebKit using HTML5's local cacheing...



    If the Pre becomes popular and these background app rouse catches on can we expect Apple to follow suit by allowing developers to make simple, Pre-like apps that run in the same manor that will run in the backgorund. We'll then have pure web apps, localized web apps and true iPhone apps. Sounds like a pretty solid environment for every developer's needs. If Apple can't get a revenue stream from localized web pages I doubt they would do it.



    PS: Does the Pre really need an SDK for HTML, CSS and Java?
  • Reply 36 of 212
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    I'd love to have all the benefits of the iPhone (including background push which is coming), PLUS have the background apps as seen on the Pre, AND have unhindered battery life, RAM usage, speed and stability (the things that typically suffer from background apps).



    Since having all that in one is impossible and will be for some time to come (until faster iPhones and iPhone OS 4.0 maybe?) I'll have to settle for having SOME of that. There's no avoiding compromise. I'll take the first and third things, and give up "true" background apps.



    Most iPhone apps "pause" nicely and launch quickly anyway... and push is coming which doesn't hog battery and RAM. So Pandora is about the only app I'd really WANT in the background anyway. Maybe on my next iPhone next year. And if other apps can switch more quickly by staying loaded, that will be a nice little side benefit. We know the iPhone OS can multitask, it's simply disabled because it's a bad idea (in some ways) until mobile hardware improves.



    (And of course, the Pre, like iPhone OS 3.0, is still in the future anyway. The Pre looks like it will beat iPhone OS 3.0 to market... but not by much. We'll get our push IM apps about the same time Pre buyers get their Pres.)
  • Reply 37 of 212
    chrisochriso Posts: 1member
    Wake up dude, over 12 million sold, that hardly sucks, this has been the most incredibly phone ever product, its only going to get better. Palm is barely hanging on, do you not read the press. However, if the Pre is a a success competition is always good for the market.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.



    I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.



    I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.



    Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.



  • Reply 38 of 212
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    I wish Palm all the best with Pre and whatever else they might come up with. I like how they are being less restrictive than Apple, but the Pre is not for me, I'm happy with my iPhone and don't feel that I need any of features the Pre has.

    The Pre should attract different buyers than the iPhone, and would most probably cut WinMo's and Symbian's slice of the smartphone pie, a little.
  • Reply 39 of 212
    steviet02steviet02 Posts: 594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    If those are limitations then i'm fine with that.



    If I'm listening to music i'm listening to music. I don't want to surf and try to manage Pandora decisions.



    All this comes from my own perspective and desire for features. I speak only for myself.



    I couldn't disagree with you more. If there was ever a task or two that begged for background tasking it is music and surfing the web. And for the bit rates that pandora and other http streamers use the impact on the surfing would not be much of a hindrance. I'm speaking for everyone in this case
  • Reply 40 of 212
    In theory, under controlled conditions, this Pre seems to some individuals to be the perfect handset. But it's far too early to tell if there are compromises being made. There is not one retail Pre in operation yet. People are comparing a nearly one-year-old iPhone against a product that, so far, is vaporware. I know that short battery life doesn't mean much compared to features, but a handset should have good battery life. It is said that the Pre's processor is even faster than what the iPhone has and it's going to be running background processing. I'm curious as to how this is going to affect battery life on the Pre. I suppose if you're paying attention you can turn off background processing if you want, but the average user might not be aware of this and be plagued with running down the battery faster.



    If Palm had all the answers years ago, then why do they have a struggling company today? I'd heard that they neglected to update their Palm OS for years. Did they believe that the Palm OS had so many features it didn't need to be updated? Is that the reason Ed Colligan believed Apple and the iPhone would fail because Palm was already sitting pretty with cutting edge products?



    Apple is certainly capable of building a mobile OS that can do anything that WebOS can do, but they've made their own decision about how they want to do things. Yet for some reason people think that Apple is not doing it for the user's benefit but for Apple's own secret agenda. At least just wait for the Pre to be in user's hands for one full year before any conclusions are made. As long as the Pre is well-built and bugs are sorted out quickly, then maybe the Pre has a chance of being a solid product for Palm. Now it's just a dream that could quickly turn into a nightmare without strong customer support.



    I hope Palm succeeds in putting out a solid product, just to save itself from going bankrupt.
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