New Palm Pre apps underscore Apple's iPhone limitations

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  • Reply 61 of 212
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.



    .



    Clearly your as ancient as those phones and still fall under the idea that its business first everything second. A smartphone doesnt have to be smart anymore it has to be entertaining something the iphone suceeds at. if a business man really wants to do big business hes gonna buy the meanest blackberry around. My smartphone doesnt have copy and paste like seriously people are so ridiculous with their standards my smartphone is fine and it doesnt have that so really go back to your prehistoric brick
  • Reply 62 of 212
    duecesdueces Posts: 89member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    So tell me again how well Pandora and Fandango will work without a web connection, for those Pre owners without access?



    Unlike ATT, Sprint and Verizon have web access pretty much everywhere.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post




    Palm seems to emphasize always-on and background processing? Let's see how well that battery lasts with everything running. You forget to shut an app and put in in your pocket? Will you have a dead battery in 30 minutes then?




    Of course they are emphasizing it as they are taking a shot directly at the iphone, which does not allow background processing, which almost all phones have forever. Its such a basic feature that the fact that it is not there is a slap in the face. But I have to say some people like being abused.



    As for how long will the battery last with background processes active. Well I would imagine it would last as long as any other Palm or Blackberry phone has for the last 10 years. Fine.



    I used to have a Palm Centro that had tons of background apps running, the phone would last a couple days easy.



    I currently have a Blackberry Curve, which ALWAYS has 16 apps running in the background at all times. I use about 45 minutes of talk everyday, send about 50 emails, maybe 20 text messages. At the end of the day my battery is usually at 70%. This is on a battery that is now 11 months old and is charged every single night while I sleep.
  • Reply 63 of 212
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post


    In theory, under controlled conditions, this Pre seems to some individuals to be the perfect handset. But it's far too early to tell if there are compromises being made. There is not one retail Pre in operation yet. People are comparing a nearly one-year-old iPhone against a product that, so far, is vaporware. I know that short battery life doesn't mean much compared to features, but a handset should have good battery life. It is said that the Pre's processor is even faster than what the iPhone has and it's going to be running background processing. I'm curious as to how this is going to affect battery life on the Pre. I suppose if you're paying attention you can turn off background processing if you want, but the average user might not be aware of this and be plagued with running down the battery faster.



    If Palm had all the answers years ago, then why do they have a struggling company today? I'd heard that they neglected to update their Palm OS for years. Did they believe that the Palm OS had so many features it didn't need to be updated? Is that the reason Ed Colligan believed Apple and the iPhone would fail because Palm was already sitting pretty with cutting edge products?



    Apple is certainly capable of building a mobile OS that can do anything that WebOS can do, but they've made their own decision about how they want to do things. Yet for some reason people think that Apple is not doing it for the user's benefit but for Apple's own secret agenda. At least just wait for the Pre to be in user's hands for one full year before any conclusions are made. As long as the Pre is well-built and bugs are sorted out quickly, then maybe the Pre has a chance of being a solid product for Palm. Now it's just a dream that could quickly turn into a nightmare without strong customer support.



    I hope Palm succeeds in putting out a solid product, just to save itself from going bankrupt.



    Thanks for that very sane post -- instead of the considerable, noisy back-and-forth -- in this thread!
  • Reply 64 of 212
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dueces View Post


    Unlike ATT, Sprint and Verizon have web access pretty much everywhere.



    Fwiw to you, where I live, ATT > Verizon. Data from Sprint is nearly non-existent.



    (Sheesh. Talk about the arrogance of extrapolating and generalizing from a few-mile radius of one's existence......)
  • Reply 65 of 212
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Fwiw to you, where I live, ATT > Verizon. Data from Sprint is nearly non-existent.



    (Sheesh. Talk about the arrogance of extrapolating and generalizing from a few-mile radius of one's existence......)



    Sorry to be replying to my own post...... but, on the subject of Verizon - whose coverage and quality I constantly hear people praising a lot - see this: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10209477-51.html



    Heh heh. The comments section of the article is a fascinating and telling eye-opener for me.
  • Reply 66 of 212
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.



    I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.



    I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.



    Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.



    You are obviously a Palm guy. That's OK. But if you are so certain that the Pre is better than the iphone why are you trolling on an Apple oriented site to comment on the pre- Why not stay in Pre forums?
  • Reply 67 of 212
    ibillibill Posts: 400member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    Damn Apple has a lot of haters, seems the more success you get the more haters you get.



    Bingo!
  • Reply 68 of 212
    jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    Damn Apple has a lot of haters, seems the more success you get the more haters you get.



    In a day where success is despised and even punished, it's understandable.
  • Reply 69 of 212
    shookstershookster Posts: 113member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software.



    Are you insane? Do you really want to run daily virus scans on your phone and have an anti-malware app running constantly and reducing your battery life to zero?



    I've heard about Windows users having premium rate dialers installed without their knowledge... until they received a gigantic bill at the end of the month. Is this what you want on your iPhone?
  • Reply 70 of 212
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    A viable competitor to the iPhone should be welcomed as competition will only make the iPhone that much better. I don't know if the Pre will be a direct rival, but it's unhealthy, in my opinion, for Apple to occupy that space alone.
  • Reply 71 of 212
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    I feel I need to remind again:



    iPhone OS can run multiple tasks at once. In fact, it always does! There are more than a dozen processes that are always active. Two of them are the Phone application, of course, and the Springboard application (the iPhone Finder equivalent). Pretty often, Mail and Safari are runnung in the background as well, even when the user is using another app. This is extremely important to keep in mind, because:
    1. Apple can "unlock" the multitasking for third parties whenever it feels this will improve the user experience or it feels a pressure to do so.

    2. Apple can allow selected third party applications to run in background, if they feel this will improve user experience.

    3. The desision to block the background running applicatin support for third parties is made by professionals, not by idiots. Why everibody and his dog feel that they know better?

    Most iPhone users have two dozens of apps or more. The idea to have your application running in background is very tempting for developers, few of them (the Apple provided ones) already run in the background. And even Apple's apps are not perfect: restarting the phone once a week helps a lot. The idea that every developer out there should be allowed to write a background application and the user should manage the priorities, and this will be good for the user, is extremely far from reality. The actual technical limitation of the iPhone OS is the lack of virtual memory. The multitasking is just there. Then, again, I have hard time to believe that Apple could not implement virtual memory because their engineers are morons, or they want to abuse the user.



    That said, I am pretty sure Apple will unlock the multitasking for third parties when they feel the hardware is good enough and they can have fast and efficient virtual memory implementation, or when there is competitive pressure to do so.
  • Reply 72 of 212
    applesauce007applesauce007 Posts: 1,654member
    1. OK. Well, True multitasking is certainly a good thing. We'll have to see if Palm can keep the UI snappy while maintaining respectable battery life with the background apps. We tried this with WinMo and Apple's statement does check out.



    2. OK. I don't know with certainty, but allowing other local apps and web environments to inject information into your contacts and schedule sounds dangerous to me. You could end up calling some 900 number instead of your spouse or strange appointments could be injected into your corporate or family calendar. Then your boss and/or your spouse could get very upset with you. Who knows... Time will tell. :-)



    The iPhone is certainly not perfect. I would also like to see a faster path to SpotLight. I must say however the features that the iPhone does have are extremely well implemented and with very consistent user interfaces. The programming tools and APIs are also rich and impeccable.



    ciao





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    I have to disagree with you.



    1. I hate when people say that something is "glorified". That"s what it is. A task manager. To do this on the iphone you have to consistently quit out of one app and exit into another. Palm, again mimicking Apple, is coming out with their own PNS so they will able to have the best of both worlds. I hope that Apple implements background tasks with hardware 3.0.



    2. There is no way you know this. Palm is going to have an app store that will, I assume, filter out badly written or malicious apps. The truth is most people would love this kind of functionality. The fandango application is brilliant example of this. Apple is going to have to do this at one point or another. Something tells me that when they initially wanted people to build web apps that it was synergy that they were aiming towards before people were clamoring for native apps. I would not be suprised if apple built an api for this in OS 4.0.



    3. I agree. Apple has the best implementation of copy and paste period.



    4. I also agree with you on the keyboard on the iphone is highly underrated.



    Apple has a lot of things to do with os 3.0. The PNS system is horrible. It will like visiting a xxx website with all the popups that you will get. There also has to be a way that you can quickly access spotlight. Having to press the home button then scroll left is very sloppy. I hope it's something like a triple click.

    The OS on the pre is certainly jaw dropping and something apple should take note of. My guess is that it will take another year for apple to catch up and move ahead. To say that nobody would like to run pandora in the background while using the gps is lying. Background tasks, whether apple wants it or not, is a neccesity.



    At first blush, the pre is a better smartphone and the iphone is a better multimedia device. Apple had better catch up though, because many would choose a smartphone first



  • Reply 73 of 212
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,991member
    I think this argues against allowing just about anything on a phone, and allowing almost unfettered access to any area on a phone.



    http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...m?newsid=20093



    So far, the iPhone has an enviable record in security matters. Other phones have had virus's going way back, and I always had to be careful with mine.



    Maybe Apple's way IS better.
  • Reply 74 of 212
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    My guess is that it will take another year for apple to catch up and move ahead.



  • Reply 75 of 212
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,834member
    To all those concerned, it is obvious that multitasking will come at the expense of battery life.

    Everyone knows this.



    But the Pre has a replaceable battery, so what's the big problem?
  • Reply 76 of 212
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    Guys,



    Hold off your final judgment and strong opinions until Palm Pre and next iPhone are released. As I mentioned before, I had a chance to play wit Pre for a while and found it very good but not Jaw Dropping by any means. Of course, you need to use the device for few days in real life to get a real feeling.



    Palm will have trouble making the Pre a killer product, and the reasons are beyond the technical capabilities.



    Having one provider in the US, and a bunch of people building expectations that it will outsell the iPhone as soon as it is released is unrealistic. Those same people may declare the Pre a failure because it did not meet their unrealistic predictions, just as they declared the iPhone a failure because Apple did not sell 1 million units the first weekend. But that may hurt Palm more than it did hurt Apple.



    Recently there were reports from "analysts" that the Pre may sell "only half the number of the iPhones" Apple is expected to sell for the same period, and that would be a flop. Give me a break! It will be a HUGE success for Palm if they manage to sell 25% percent of the phones Apple will sell for a year.



    P.S. I am not a native English speaker, so please help. Does the word "analyst" has something to do with the word "anal" and the way the analyst pull the data for their conclusions?
  • Reply 77 of 212
    jimzipjimzip Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mobius View Post


    And another great set of well-thought out arguments. Well done you!

    ...

    It's healthy for people to give constructive criticism. What's the point of just constantly praising something in blind adoration? It's like you're in love with someone and don't notice the mole on their chin anymore.

    ...

    If we praise and criticise it in an intelligent and constructive way then we can make it an even better product.



    I like the cut of your jib.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mobius View Post


    It also doesn't seem to have been spell-checked:



    "...interpreting code within tjhird-party apps..."



    \



    He was just getting back to his Swedish roots.



    Jimzip
  • Reply 78 of 212
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    I've seen the Pre videos and I think while no one can guarantee anything with regard to iPhone versus Pre or the reverse the way that the Pre multitasks makes very good sense from the perception of understanding. The graphics of the cards and they way they back out and move looks just like if Apple designed Expose for the iPhone.



    It is really rare that someone does something better and before Apple that makes so much sense.
  • Reply 79 of 212
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shadow View Post




    P.S. I am not a native English speaker, so please help. Does the word "analyst" has something to do with the word "anal" and the way the analyst pull the data for their conclusions?



    Excellent surmise.





    But, as with many words in English:

    Origin: 1650?60; from French analyste, equiv. to analyse analysis + -iste -ist, by haplology from *analysiste

    \
  • Reply 80 of 212
    akhomerunakhomerun Posts: 386member
    I have a backgrounding application on my jailbroken iPod touch, and I can definitely say there are advantages and disadvantages.



    First of all, the only applications that are really useful to background are Pandora and chat programs (like Facebook and AIM). The other thing is that the iPod touch/iPhone has a limited amount of RAM, so really I try not to open 2 or 3 at a time.



    As far as the battery life goes, I don't see a significant hit in keeping these 3 applications open (the only thing that makes the battery life worse is keeping the WiFi on constantly, which is another feature available to jailbreakers).



    Actually, one night I left WiFi on all night and my battery only went from 70% to 30% in about 8 hours. Obviously I wasn't running anything and the screen was off the whole time, but I was rather impressed.



    I think Apple will eventually allow backgrounding, but it may be on newer, more capable hardware in the future. I think iPhone users have barely enough battery life as it is if you're making calls a lot and using the 3G. And of course I think Apple will do it the Apple way and they won't implement backgrounding until they get it right - similar to how long it took them to figure out how to do copy/paste right.
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