New Palm Pre apps underscore Apple's iPhone limitations

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  • Reply 41 of 212
    mark2005mark2005 Posts: 1,158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChrisO View Post


    Wake up dude, over 12 million sold, that hardly sucks, this has been the most incredibly phone ever product, its only going to get better. Palm is barely hanging on, do you not read the press. However, if the Pre is a a success competition is always good for the market.





    You mean, over 17 million sold (plus 13 million more iPod touch).
  • Reply 42 of 212
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post


    1. The "Card" paradigm is a glorified task manager that make switching apps easier but I am convinced that you forget to quit your apps it will drain your battery and it will degrade performance.



    2. The "Synergy" integrated contacts and other environments I think will pollute user data with extraneous information and lead to confusion. It may also provide an automation facility for viruses and worms.



    3. Take a close look at the Cut-Copy-Paste procedures and capabilities on the iPhone against all other phones including the Pre and you will have to agree that it is well worth the wait. By the way the Pre has no "accurate" method of selecting text using the touch screen. From the demos that I have seen, it should be called "swipe and pray".



    3. The "keyboard". I find Apple's virtual keyboards much easier to use than other physical keyboards. I can easily tap the correct keys using my thumb while single handedly holding the phone. Have you ever tried to dial a phone number or an alpha-numeric number on a non-TouchScreen blackberry? Trust me, it's a nightmare. The Pre does have a key pad but the keyboard looks just like a blackberry.



    Overall, I think the Pre touchscreen UI looks nicer than many other touchscreen phones but I also think that the engineers were allowed to play "cowboy" and implement some wild UI features that are really not consistent because Palm was desperate for something new and flashy.



    Time will tell.



    I have to disagree with you.



    1. I hate when people say that something is "glorified". That"s what it is. A task manager. To do this on the iphone you have to consistently quit out of one app and exit into another. Palm, again mimicking Apple, is coming out with their own PNS so they will able to have the best of both worlds. I hope that Apple implements background tasks with hardware 3.0.



    2. There is no way you know this. Palm is going to have an app store that will, I assume, filter out badly written or malicious apps. The truth is most people would love this kind of functionality. The fandango application is brilliant example of this. Apple is going to have to do this at one point or another. Something tells me that when they initially wanted people to build web apps that it was synergy that they were aiming towards before people were clamoring for native apps. I would not be suprised if apple built an api for this in OS 4.0.



    3. I agree. Apple has the best implementation of copy and paste period.



    4. I also agree with you on the keyboard on the iphone is highly underrated.



    Apple has a lot of things to do with os 3.0. The PNS system is horrible. It will like visiting a xxx website with all the popups that you will get. There also has to be a way that you can quickly access spotlight. Having to press the home button then scroll left is very sloppy. I hope it's something like a triple click.

    The OS on the pre is certainly jaw dropping and something apple should take note of. My guess is that it will take another year for apple to catch up and move ahead. To say that nobody would like to run pandora in the background while using the gps is lying. Background tasks, whether apple wants it or not, is a neccesity.



    At first blush, the pre is a better smartphone and the iphone is a better multimedia device. Apple had better catch up though, because many would choose a smartphone first
  • Reply 43 of 212
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 636member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    I couldn't disagree with you more. If there was ever a task or two that begged for background tasking it is music and surfing the web. And for the bit rates that pandora and other http streamers use the impact on the surfing would not be much of a hindrance. I'm speaking for everyone in this case



    I agree. Apple's limitations on the iPhone coupled with ATT are going to make me give the Pre a long, hard look before renewing our 4 v1 iPhone contracts. While network issues seem to be regional, I have a Sprint datacard that gets great coverage in this area and unlike the many who hate Sprints CS, I have never had a problem with them when I have called in or visited a Sprint store. Will I go with a Pre? Who knows but if the hype pans out at least there will be a credible competitor to the iPhone and ATT.
  • Reply 44 of 212
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks ... funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. ... Zombie generation with no standards! ... shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated. ....



    WTF?

    What are you talking about with this "no standards" stuff?



    Moral standards?



    That has to be the oddest insult I've heard in a while, especially when talking about Apple.
  • Reply 45 of 212
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    WTF?

    What are you talking about with this "no standards" stuff?



    Moral standards?



    That has to be the oddest insult I've heard in a while, especially when talking about Apple.



    I don't understand it either. LOL.



    I think he's angry about Apple's premium image or something, and all of us buying into that.



    I'm not sure what alternative he would propose. The Windows ecosystem (it isn't even one)? With WinMo?? Maybe if it was 1998 and we had nothing better. But I think we have better things to do than to attempt to deconstruct lunacy.
  • Reply 46 of 212
    cu10cu10 Posts: 294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post


    1. The "Card" paradigm is a glorified task manager that make switching apps easier but I am convinced that you forget to quit your apps it will drain your battery and it will degrade performance.



    Palm perfected device sleeping with their Palm products (I play around with a Treo that keeps its charge for months while not turned on).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post


    2. The "Synergy" integrated contacts and other environments I think will pollute user data with extraneous information and lead to confusion. It may also provide an automation facility for viruses and worms.



    Perhaps, and I agree that time will tell. This is a great feature IMO.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post


    3. The "keyboard". I find Apple's virtual keyboards much easier to use than other physical keyboards.



    Samsung Instinct has a better soft-keyboard than iPhone, but the iPhone is a better executed product overall, IMHO.
  • Reply 47 of 212
    All personal attacks aside, Apple's justifications seem reasonable to me.

    Many a morning, I've been on the patio with coffee and a cigar, listening to internet radio via wifi. Having that running in the background would definitely be a drain, and a fast one at that.



    The Pre is a very interesting device -- the first from Palm in at least 10 years that really makes me want to take another look. Nothing, however, makes me want to switch, especially the way Apple has kept loads of improvements in the pipeline. I'm still running iPhone v1 that was purchased June 30, 2007.



    iPhone: shirt pocket NetMac.

    et al: nothing close.
  • Reply 48 of 212
    goochergoocher Posts: 92member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.



    I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.



    I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.



    Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.



    This is a patently trollish post. Nice try.
  • Reply 49 of 212
    goochergoocher Posts: 92member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    WTF?

    What are you talking about with this "no standards" stuff?



    Moral standards?



    That has to be the oddest insult I've heard in a while, especially when talking about Apple.



    He's trolling, nothing more. Either that, or he's very young and mad at somebody who owns an iPhone.
  • Reply 50 of 212
    alanskyalansky Posts: 235member
    There is nothing easier than knocking the limitations of your competitors' products by crowing about a product that doesn't even exist yet! Palm will look ridiculous when they actually debut their phantom phone, if that ever actually happens.
  • Reply 51 of 212
    goochergoocher Posts: 92member
    I haven't read every post, and somebody may have addressed this. Currently, only third-party apps are restricted from running in the background. Some native iPhone apps seem to run just fine in the background. For example, playing tunes with the iPod app, then doing other tasks, no problem. Music keeps playing just fine, and I can adjust the volume. I've even (accidentally, not sure how I did it) called up a mini-iPod controller interface while I was using another app, since I was listening to music while doing other things on the iPhone. Perhaps that is the only one; not sure. Obviously, SMS is another backgrounded app. But third-party apps are not allowed to background, and not all native iPhone apps remain active once backgrounded. I will be curious to see how the iPhone 3.0 OS works on the newer hardware.



    I will also be interested to see how the Pre's webOS influences other manufacturers, in the same way the iPhone OS had influenced the industry. It's all good, in my book. The more they can influence one another, the better off the consumer.
  • Reply 52 of 212
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Damn Apple has a lot of haters, seems the more success you get the more haters you get.
  • Reply 53 of 212
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Anyone else notice the large number of posts by posters with less than 10 posts? Weird! On both sides of the argument....
  • Reply 54 of 212
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,991member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beg_ne View Post


    Well the whole classics thing is completely moot. What is the point of bringing that up in the article?



    I wouldn't mind an API to hook into the calendar store, its one of the very few things missing from the new API's in 3.0 IMO.



    Also i'm still not sold on the backgrounding, we don't know how the battery will handle that, also unless you manage your tasks a lot you're going to slow that phone down pretty easy. The hardware is a lot beefier than the iPhone's 2 year old hardware but it runs slower, or on par at best compared to iPhone with only a few apps running.



    It's not moot. It's very important. It could be the one thing that allows this to be a success.



    If Apple didn't allow this when moving to the PPC, they likely would have failed. The same thing is true for the move to OS X.



    All my cells have been Palm smartphones, starting with the Samsung i300, and ending with the Treo 700p, when we all bought iPhones last August.



    I've got 17 apps for the phone, and they cost an average of $20.



    I I were to move from the Treo to the Pre, for example, I would have few apps to buy. Taking all my apps over would be the one thing that would allow the continuation of the functionality until enough new apps became available.



    There were a lot of questions about what Palm would do until enough apps came out. Now we know.
  • Reply 55 of 212
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,991member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLad View Post


    The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.



    I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.



    I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.



    Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.



    I think that we would ALL be happy if you moved to the Pre. Just don't come back here when you start to complain about it too.
  • Reply 56 of 212
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    More and more desktop applications are becoming web apps. Palm's web-apps are better than Apple's web apps. And we know that Web apps are fine for email, lists, rss-readers, image viewers, to-do lists and so on.



    Historically I believe we can see good evidence web apps was truly Apple's original direction for the iPhone. Only because the original web capabilities were so limited and the crowd so noisy for native apps do we have the App Store today. (And what a disaster it is ) Think Squirrelfish, Sproutcore, and Apple's adamance that web apps were the future.



    Quote:

    As someone invested in the iPhone, I think the Palm Pre is the best thing that could have happened to Apple.



    Agreed. And as a Treo 650 owner, I also believe iLad makes a lot of great, valid points. With a third-party app, I had push e-mail 4+ years ago from any IMAP-idle server. Apple only makes this possible with certain commercial IMAP servers and not even with their own Mac OS X Server.
  • Reply 57 of 212
    walshbjwalshbj Posts: 864member
    Is it true that webOS does NOT support an onscreen keyboard? You have to open the physical keyboard to type? Wouldn't like that...



    I'm in the "wait and see what we really have here" camp when it comes to the Pre.
  • Reply 58 of 212
    kenckenc Posts: 195member
    The point of Classics mode is for Palm to be able to say, we already have THOUSANDS of apps, available at the Hold Out Your Palm Store.
  • Reply 59 of 212
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    I couldn't disagree with you more. If there was ever a task or two that begged for background tasking it is music and surfing the web. And for the bit rates that pandora and other http streamers use the impact on the surfing would not be much of a hindrance. I'm speaking for everyone in this case



    You're not speaking for me.



    There are tasks (like downloading email) where the iPhone saturates the network or slows down for some other reason. Adding background tasks slows it down even further by the amount of CPU time and network access going to the background task PLUS additional losses for overhead. While I don't expect incredible performance from a phone, there's no point in slowing it down unnecessarily just because some people want to try to do 2 things at once.



    Some day, mobile CPUs will be fast enough and use little enough battery power to make it practical. Until then, keep the overhead to a minimum.
  • Reply 60 of 212
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,431member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Wow. Is anyone else grateful that this guy is speaking on "our" behalf?



    I think Apple's got it pretty close on their first generation mobile platform. It's a real achievement. But that's not to say that people don't want things like background processes. How many people IM, for instance? Having a notification server is a hack, in the end. A workaround to meet a certain architectural philosophy.



    It's not a hack. You just fail to see the bigger picture. With the notification server in place I can receive notifications from a hundred different sources without needing a single one of those clients/applications running in the background. On every other platform you would need to have all those clients running and maintaining their own connections and polling for incoming data and eating up CPU cycles.



    What Apple is first trying to accomplish is removing the need to have superfluous clients running in the background when all they're doing is monitoring ports for data, which can be handled by the OS. It is my belief that once Apple gets developers into this way of thinking, they will eventually open applications to run in the background that truly need to continue running, such as a music streaming client, etc.



    While I agree that being able to run certain applications in the background would be nice to quickly jump back and forth, this method for serving notifications makes a lot more sense for mobile devices that have limited power, both in CPU and battery, and especially when being notified and staying in touch is the exact reason we all walk around with these devices in the first place.
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