The very existence of these ads is mysterious. Do Microsoft really believe that corporations worldwide refused to move to Vista because of Apple's advertising campaign? Why would these MS ads be seen as some sort of solution?
I think the drive is away from Microsoft, rather than toward Apple, and Apple just happen to be the guys that currently offer the best experience for people wanting to escape from Windows. For that reason, Microsoft's adverts are pointless, and Apple should avoid being satisfied with just being better than Microsoft.
FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.
Chose User CP from the upper left of the forum, then chose Edit Ignore List from the left hand column and enter the names you wish one at a time.
PS: If anyone I have added or otherwise wishes to add me please to their ignore list, please feel free.
PS: Yes, adding Kasper is a joke and the pic is meant to instigate a couple of the posters I have ignored.
I am afraid it's totally FUD. Just to get the facts clear, I looked at all three of your cites - Gizmodo says 'BOM' costs (i.e., only the actual cost of material, it is neither the cost to make nor create them, as you suggest) may give Apple a 50% margin relative to sale price, CNET says 55%, and Intomobile implies it could be as high as 75%.
.
sorry if i wasnt clear enough, im not saying that it has doubled its money for what it has cost to produce the iPhone (including manufacturing)
i was saying that as of today (the cost of producing the iPhone 3G has certainly dropped in the last 8 monhts) is even less than what was suggested that far back.
by "make" i meant when you take out advertising, Physical assembly, and shipping, the components are worth probably less than HALF of what the cost of purchasing one of the phones is. $600 for the 16GB version, half of that is $300, and it likely costs less than that for the components (according to said articles) and you know it doesnt take *that* much for production in China and shipping those small devices around the world...
all in all, they have a larger profit margin than most other devices on the market. reading back my intention of the post was not clear, sorry.
Many cars have the same specs too, why buy a premium car over a cheap model?
Why BECAUSE IT IS THE ONE THAT YOU WANT.
You can always find something cheaper, does not mean you have to buy it.
Do you buy the cheapest of everything, do you own any brands? Look at yourself.
Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
What to do about the battery! Its the most important part of an electronic device, yet it has the slowest technological advances of the the industry. The best Apple can do with it is to change the shape to pack more into the 17". By comparision, cpu, memories, drives, monitor makes leaps and bounds. Battery life gets better only because of energy efficiency in other parts.
I'm surprised by the criticism of this ad. The Lauren one was pretty stupid, but this one is right on the money, IMO.
I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost every time.
The HDX series used in this latest ad is an especially good value. Here in Canada, you can find a well equipped 16" HDX for $1100-1200. Apple simply cannot compete with that machine. Not on price, not on features. Apple's only trump card over HP is software. I'd gladly pay more to get OS X, but even if I slapped down another $600, I still could not find a Mac that comes even close to competing with the HDX.
My vetch is not really with the price anyway. I don't mind paying more to get a Mac. My criticism is with Apple's limited hardware choices. I want a consumer laptop with firewire, a dedicated graphics card, a matte screen, a proper extended keyboard, express card and memory card slots, and HDMI out. Apple can't do that at any price.
Of course, what's still bad about this ad from MS' standpoint, is that it is an ad for HP hardware, and not for Windows. Even if someone found the HP laptop they liked, they still could just put a different OS on it.
FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.
yeah, this is good for all of the single post poeple, but they likely wont be back either. but those of us just trying to point out that Apple isnt 100% perfect (even though we all like it, why else would we be here?) then your going to be missing parts of the conversation. unless you want to because it bothers you too much... just seems a bit silly to me. ignoring other points of view does not = the facts disappearing.
of course im not sure what you point to this post is, im not saying you just want to put your fingers in your ears and scream...
FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.
Chose User CP from the upper left of the forum, then chose Edit Ignore List from the left hand column and enter the names you wish one at a time.
PS: If anyone I have added or otherwise wishes to add me please to their ignore list, please feel free.
...
Phew! Thanks for reminding me. I assume ItalianKid and Teckstud are quite young and have somehow stumbled upon AppleInsider by accident. I have excluded them already.
I agree that the new Macbook Pros look really good, but the best thing about the new macs for me is that they caused a major price drop of the ?old? Macbook Pros on Amazon back in December 2008. I picked up a 15″ 2.5 GHz Macbook Pro with 512 MB NVidia video RAM for $1500 on Amazon after rebate. Don?t get me wrong, $1500 still seems like a TON of money to spend on a laptop, but I dare you to match those specs for less ? on whatever OS. Of course I wasn?t about to spend $700 more for the new version of MBP with the same specs either (plus I had to have a matte screen ? just personal preference).
Even on the current HW without a retail discount it's hard to beat Apple's higher-end merchandise when comparing on specs and build quality. But I think the argument is with many non-Mac users is that the average person doesn't really need all that power or durability or attention to build design. For instance, when you compare an iMac or Mac Mini to another machine that is vying for that same design type you find the Mac is cheaper all around, but most people are fine with the mini-towers that Dell, HP et al. sell. I wish more people would see that one size does not fit all. Welcome to the forums.
Are these articles even necessary? It's like trolling for the flamebait traffic.
I kind of agree with that. Writing articles about an MS ad just causes this site to be linked in from PC sites. My experience has been that as soon as MS fans start appearing, the tone gets really nasty and personal. This is also one of the reasons that I hope Apple don't get greedy about market share. I just don't want those people to start influencing the direction of the products.
"There are some people that we choose not to serve"
I kind of agree with that. Writing articles about an MS ad just causes this site to be linked in from PC sites. My experience has been that as soon as MS fans start appearing, the tone gets really nasty and personal. This is also one of the reasons that I hope Apple don't get greedy about market share. I just don't want those people to start influencing the direction of the products.
"There are some people that we choose not to serve"
Just wait until a major new product from Apple arrives, then they will start coming out of the woodwork. Can't get a decent conversation going at all. It's like Digg around here.
sorry if i wasnt clear enough, im not saying that it has doubled its money for what it has cost to produce the iPhone (including manufacturing)
i was saying that as of today (the cost of producing the iPhone 3G has certainly dropped in the last 8 monhts) is even less than what was suggested that far back.
by "make" i meant when you take out advertising, Physical assembly, and shipping, the components are worth probably less than HALF of what the cost of purchasing one of the phones is. $600 for the 16GB version, half of that is $300, and it likely costs less than that for the components (according to said articles) and you know it doesnt take *that* much for production in China and shipping those small devices around the world...
all in all, they have a larger profit margin than most other devices on the market. reading back my intention of the post was not clear, sorry.
Why on earth would I want to spend nine hundred dollars extra to get identical specifications? What does a Macintosh have that could possibly justify this?
OS X is well worth the $900 extra dollars. The solidness and security of UNIX (and all the great open source software that comes with most Linux distros) with an awesome desktop. Sure I can't compile my kernel however I want, but I'll trade that for the Aqua GUI in comparison to the Gnome or KDE desktop (I have an Ubuntu distro as a VM, and while very good I would never use it as a primary because I rely on Adobe's Creative Suite which does not run on Linux).
I've owned a myriad of Windows machines: built from scratch beige boxes, Acer laptop (worst computer ever), Dell desktops and laptops, a Toshiba laptop (possibly the best pc I owned), a couple racked servers, and lastly a HP laptop. When I made the switch (basically when I found out about the beta of BootCamp) and have never looked back. My first Mac was a MBP. I now own a Mac Pro, and just recently added a G5 Xserve to be my testing and version control server at home.
Macs are not for everyone. A good friend of mine that is a .NET and Java developer will always be on Windows because the developer tools are robust for .NET. As a matter of fact, I don't want you or other Windows users to switch. Why? Because I'd prefer virus and malware people keep writing their viruses for Windows. If Macs reach a 'critical mass' you better believe that there would be Mac viruses. While Macs are secure, they are not impervious--viruses and malware HAVE been written for Macs. But since there isn't enough money in it because it is difficult to spread Mac viruses. Like real viruses, they need to reach a critical mass of infections to become widespread. Windows homogeneous networks spread worms like Conficker very efficiently--believe it or not many of the infected Conficker machines are on corporate networks. So please do me a favor and keep buying Windows machines.
ok just to set the record straight on the macbook pro 15's battery ... it pretty much sucks. i get 3.5 hours out of it if i'm lucky, with almost everything shut down, the discrete graphics turned off, and the screen only illuminated to 2 bars. i've never gotten over 4 hours in this configuration, even when the machine was new.
what macbook Pro? I've run mine with the integrated graphics, bluetooth off, WIFI on... screen half bright, using the internet and MS Word, and its lasted OVER 5 hours... 5:20 from the time i woke it up (wasnt even full to start, like 96%) to the time it was to 2% and saying better plug in or else... not sure whats wrong with yours!
Apple's higher-end merchandise when comparing on specs and build quality. But I think the argument is with many non-Mac users is that the average person doesn't really need all that power or durability or attention to build design. For instance, when you compare an iMac or Mac Mini to another machine that is vying for that same design type you find the Mac is cheaper all around, but most people are fine with the mini-towers that Dell, HP et al. sell. I wish more people would see that one size does not fit all. Welcome to the forums.
I definitely agree with Solipsism's statement that durability and quality of Mac's build is much higher than most if not all PC makers (especially Dell and HP). However I question the statement about power (* and to some extent flexibility [hardware & software]). I have a MacBook (for graphics design, taking notes in class, presentations, web development), but for things such as gaming, productivity, and programming, I still feel that PCs are probably the better option as I have a wider capacity to do upgrades and have access to a wider array of software.
Ultimately it is down to what you want to do with the system. Mac has by far the better list of graphics tools (both 2D and 3D) and in general better screens and less compatibility issues (because of a smaller list of certified hardware). Whereas PC is lower end product that is like a jack of all trades. You can't compare a specialized/niche product such as Mac directly to that of the PC and expect a fair comparison.
>> Regarding Maxhomie's attack [in pg 3]:
"Welcome to a bunch of trolls that have turned this place into CNET? I don't post much, because I usually enjoy the exchanges between the more experienced and knowledgeable members."
I find it really amusing how fanboism from Mac's side is making the rest of us Mac users look like a bunch of hypocrites. Stop bashing other people if they have their own opinion, just show them "where" they were wrong and why Mac is a better product. Doing personal offense (* especially to PC elitists) just shows how immature you are.
Your assessment of hardware is fair. Apple hardware is PC hardware since the switch to Intel. The difference is OS X. It means not spending hours getting your machine fixed after OS and virus updates. It means working well with Windows and especially Linux machines on your network. Easily sharing a printer when Windows won't. It means a a leaner OS that runs faster and is more stable with less resources. Running the whole world of X windows and Windows apps side by side with OS X apps. It is A Better Mousetrap.
After using Windows for 20 years, and Linux for 12, I feel the extra money is well worth it. If you like to tinker with hardware and the OS, I'd try Slackware Linux. At least then, it is by choice! This kind of stuff can be very fun, but it stinks when you are trying to fix Windows and MS is no help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomdude
*sound of me repeatedly hitting my head on desk*
Okay, whoever made that ad needs to be fired. Now. What the hell is MS thinking? God.
Anyways, I saw a lot of people talking about benchmark comparisons between macs and PCs, so I decided to see for myself.
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT graphics card with 256MB dedicated video memory
costs $2099.00.
I then went to dell.com and looked at a computer there, and customized it a bit.
A 16-inch Dell Studio XPS 16 with
Intel® Core? 2 Duo T9800 (6MB cache/2.93GHz/1066Mhz FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-bit (yes, it really can handle the next entry...)
5GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1067MHz (2 Dimms)
320GB Serial ATA HDD @ 7200rpm
8X optical drive (DVD+/- R/RW CD-RW)
ATI Mobility RADEON® HD 3670 graphics card with 512MB dedicated video memory
costs $1,949.00.
I am not certain about battery life. As far as I could tell, Apple's website did not mention anything about the computer's battery life, so I'm going to guess the at 3-5 hours from the people below. The Dell ships with a six-cell battery (whatever that means), with an option to add an additional 9-cell battery for $80. (The computer has one battery port, so you would have to switch batteries to change them). In the past, Dell called the 9-cell battery an "85whr" and I think the the 6-cell was a "65whr". They did not elaborate on what "whr" is, so maybe someone can tell me?
The rest of the specifications (such as backlit keyboard, webcam, physical dimensions, weight, included software/accessories, etc.) were either not easily comparable, or merely matters of personal preference, so I purposely did not include them.
Essentially, my point is, for $150.00 less, you are getting
A processor that is 0.5GHz faster
An extra GB of RAM (and the same type of RAM as the Macbook, too, so you have nothing there like you did with MS's shitty commercial)
HDD that is 70GB larger and 1.5 times as fast
Graphics card which has twice as much memory.
A computer with comparable specifications (actually, essentially identical) to the Macbook mentioned above is a (very slightly modified) Studio XPS 13. If the graphics card is upgraded to the GeForce 9500M, comparable to the one that the Macbook has, this model costs $1,229. (the processor and RAM are the same by default; the Dell has a slightly (inconsequentially, IMHO) larger HDD)
Why on earth would I want to spend nine hundred dollars extra to get identical specifications? What does a Macintosh have that could possibly justify this? And don't tell me that Macs are more reliable. They may be, but I have had a Dell laptop for three and a half years, and I have had zero problems with the hardware.
How the hell do you even know that - were you inside Bill Gates head? or are you referring to a movie with Noah Wyle as Steve Jobs? And why would a Mac "send him into a tizzy"- I don't recall Gates and Microsoft making a computer- ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka
I'm surprised by the criticism of this ad. The Lauren one was pretty stupid, but this one is right on the money, IMO.
I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost
My vetch is not really with the price anyway. I don't mind paying more to get a Mac. My criticism is with Apple's limited hardware choices. I want a consumer laptop with firewire, a dedicated graphics card, a matte screen, a proper extended keyboard, express card and memory card slots, and HDMI out. Apple can't do that at any price.
Of course, what's still bad about this ad from MS' standpoint, is that it is an ad for HP
hardware, and not for Windows. Even if someone found the HP laptop they liked, they still could just put a different OS on it.
Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".
So what if he wants to pay for a brand, the majority of the world pays for brands which is why companies with a higher brand value than others can charge, it sucks for those who can't afford one to complain but thats life.
Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".
His argument makes total sense, unfortunately yours is nonsense.
You alone can decide what you want to buy and whether you want to spend more or less money on something. Some people spend crazy amounts of money on clothes but would never spend more than the minimum on a car.
What does it matter whether Dell is a large or small company? As for best value? It all depends on what you mean by that. Many people would say the design of the Mac, the lack of viruses and all the software that the Mac comes with constitute value.
If you're not "some idiot who pay $900 extra buck just for the brand" does that mean you're just an idiot then? lol
Do people actually believe a commercial in which Microsoft pays a person for buying a windows based laptop. When I decided to buy a Mac, I walked into an Apple store for a few hours and used one.
Comments
I think the drive is away from Microsoft, rather than toward Apple, and Apple just happen to be the guys that currently offer the best experience for people wanting to escape from Windows. For that reason, Microsoft's adverts are pointless, and Apple should avoid being satisfied with just being better than Microsoft.
Chose User CP from the upper left of the forum, then chose Edit Ignore List from the left hand column and enter the names you wish one at a time.
PS: If anyone I have added or otherwise wishes to add me please to their ignore list, please feel free.
PS: Yes, adding Kasper is a joke and the pic is meant to instigate a couple of the posters I have ignored.
I am afraid it's totally FUD. Just to get the facts clear, I looked at all three of your cites - Gizmodo says 'BOM' costs (i.e., only the actual cost of material, it is neither the cost to make nor create them, as you suggest) may give Apple a 50% margin relative to sale price, CNET says 55%, and Intomobile implies it could be as high as 75%.
.
sorry if i wasnt clear enough, im not saying that it has doubled its money for what it has cost to produce the iPhone (including manufacturing)
i was saying that as of today (the cost of producing the iPhone 3G has certainly dropped in the last 8 monhts) is even less than what was suggested that far back.
by "make" i meant when you take out advertising, Physical assembly, and shipping, the components are worth probably less than HALF of what the cost of purchasing one of the phones is. $600 for the 16GB version, half of that is $300, and it likely costs less than that for the components (according to said articles) and you know it doesnt take *that* much for production in China and shipping those small devices around the world...
all in all, they have a larger profit margin than most other devices on the market. reading back my intention of the post was not clear, sorry.
And your point is?
Many cars have the same specs too, why buy a premium car over a cheap model?
Why BECAUSE IT IS THE ONE THAT YOU WANT.
You can always find something cheaper, does not mean you have to buy it.
Do you buy the cheapest of everything, do you own any brands? Look at yourself.
Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".
I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost every time.
The HDX series used in this latest ad is an especially good value. Here in Canada, you can find a well equipped 16" HDX for $1100-1200. Apple simply cannot compete with that machine. Not on price, not on features. Apple's only trump card over HP is software. I'd gladly pay more to get OS X, but even if I slapped down another $600, I still could not find a Mac that comes even close to competing with the HDX.
My vetch is not really with the price anyway. I don't mind paying more to get a Mac. My criticism is with Apple's limited hardware choices. I want a consumer laptop with firewire, a dedicated graphics card, a matte screen, a proper extended keyboard, express card and memory card slots, and HDMI out. Apple can't do that at any price.
Of course, what's still bad about this ad from MS' standpoint, is that it is an ad for HP hardware, and not for Windows. Even if someone found the HP laptop they liked, they still could just put a different OS on it.
FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.
yeah, this is good for all of the single post poeple, but they likely wont be back either. but those of us just trying to point out that Apple isnt 100% perfect (even though we all like it, why else would we be here?) then your going to be missing parts of the conversation. unless you want to because it bothers you too much... just seems a bit silly to me. ignoring other points of view does not = the facts disappearing.
of course im not sure what you point to this post is, im not saying you just want to put your fingers in your ears and scream...
FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.
Chose User CP from the upper left of the forum, then chose Edit Ignore List from the left hand column and enter the names you wish one at a time.
PS: If anyone I have added or otherwise wishes to add me please to their ignore list, please feel free.
...
Phew! Thanks for reminding me. I assume ItalianKid and Teckstud are quite young and have somehow stumbled upon AppleInsider by accident. I have excluded them already.
I agree that the new Macbook Pros look really good, but the best thing about the new macs for me is that they caused a major price drop of the ?old? Macbook Pros on Amazon back in December 2008. I picked up a 15″ 2.5 GHz Macbook Pro with 512 MB NVidia video RAM for $1500 on Amazon after rebate. Don?t get me wrong, $1500 still seems like a TON of money to spend on a laptop, but I dare you to match those specs for less ? on whatever OS. Of course I wasn?t about to spend $700 more for the new version of MBP with the same specs either (plus I had to have a matte screen ? just personal preference).
Even on the current HW without a retail discount it's hard to beat Apple's higher-end merchandise when comparing on specs and build quality. But I think the argument is with many non-Mac users is that the average person doesn't really need all that power or durability or attention to build design. For instance, when you compare an iMac or Mac Mini to another machine that is vying for that same design type you find the Mac is cheaper all around, but most people are fine with the mini-towers that Dell, HP et al. sell. I wish more people would see that one size does not fit all. Welcome to the forums.
Are these articles even necessary? It's like trolling for the flamebait traffic.
I kind of agree with that. Writing articles about an MS ad just causes this site to be linked in from PC sites. My experience has been that as soon as MS fans start appearing, the tone gets really nasty and personal. This is also one of the reasons that I hope Apple don't get greedy about market share. I just don't want those people to start influencing the direction of the products.
"There are some people that we choose not to serve"
I kind of agree with that. Writing articles about an MS ad just causes this site to be linked in from PC sites. My experience has been that as soon as MS fans start appearing, the tone gets really nasty and personal. This is also one of the reasons that I hope Apple don't get greedy about market share. I just don't want those people to start influencing the direction of the products.
"There are some people that we choose not to serve"
Just wait until a major new product from Apple arrives, then they will start coming out of the woodwork. Can't get a decent conversation going at all. It's like Digg around here.
sorry if i wasnt clear enough, im not saying that it has doubled its money for what it has cost to produce the iPhone (including manufacturing)
i was saying that as of today (the cost of producing the iPhone 3G has certainly dropped in the last 8 monhts) is even less than what was suggested that far back.
by "make" i meant when you take out advertising, Physical assembly, and shipping, the components are worth probably less than HALF of what the cost of purchasing one of the phones is. $600 for the 16GB version, half of that is $300, and it likely costs less than that for the components (according to said articles) and you know it doesnt take *that* much for production in China and shipping those small devices around the world...
all in all, they have a larger profit margin than most other devices on the market. reading back my intention of the post was not clear, sorry.
Appreciate your clarification, though!
Why on earth would I want to spend nine hundred dollars extra to get identical specifications? What does a Macintosh have that could possibly justify this?
OS X is well worth the $900 extra dollars. The solidness and security of UNIX (and all the great open source software that comes with most Linux distros) with an awesome desktop. Sure I can't compile my kernel however I want, but I'll trade that for the Aqua GUI in comparison to the Gnome or KDE desktop (I have an Ubuntu distro as a VM, and while very good I would never use it as a primary because I rely on Adobe's Creative Suite which does not run on Linux).
I've owned a myriad of Windows machines: built from scratch beige boxes, Acer laptop (worst computer ever), Dell desktops and laptops, a Toshiba laptop (possibly the best pc I owned), a couple racked servers, and lastly a HP laptop. When I made the switch (basically when I found out about the beta of BootCamp) and have never looked back. My first Mac was a MBP. I now own a Mac Pro, and just recently added a G5 Xserve to be my testing and version control server at home.
Macs are not for everyone. A good friend of mine that is a .NET and Java developer will always be on Windows because the developer tools are robust for .NET. As a matter of fact, I don't want you or other Windows users to switch. Why? Because I'd prefer virus and malware people keep writing their viruses for Windows. If Macs reach a 'critical mass' you better believe that there would be Mac viruses. While Macs are secure, they are not impervious--viruses and malware HAVE been written for Macs. But since there isn't enough money in it because it is difficult to spread Mac viruses. Like real viruses, they need to reach a critical mass of infections to become widespread. Windows homogeneous networks spread worms like Conficker very efficiently--believe it or not many of the infected Conficker machines are on corporate networks. So please do me a favor and keep buying Windows machines.
ok just to set the record straight on the macbook pro 15's battery ... it pretty much sucks. i get 3.5 hours out of it if i'm lucky, with almost everything shut down, the discrete graphics turned off, and the screen only illuminated to 2 bars. i've never gotten over 4 hours in this configuration, even when the machine was new.
what macbook Pro? I've run mine with the integrated graphics, bluetooth off, WIFI on... screen half bright, using the internet and MS Word, and its lasted OVER 5 hours... 5:20 from the time i woke it up (wasnt even full to start, like 96%) to the time it was to 2% and saying better plug in or else... not sure whats wrong with yours!
Apple's higher-end merchandise when comparing on specs and build quality. But I think the argument is with many non-Mac users is that the average person doesn't really need all that power or durability or attention to build design. For instance, when you compare an iMac or Mac Mini to another machine that is vying for that same design type you find the Mac is cheaper all around, but most people are fine with the mini-towers that Dell, HP et al. sell. I wish more people would see that one size does not fit all. Welcome to the forums.
I definitely agree with Solipsism's statement that durability and quality of Mac's build is much higher than most if not all PC makers (especially Dell and HP). However I question the statement about power (* and to some extent flexibility [hardware & software]). I have a MacBook (for graphics design, taking notes in class, presentations, web development), but for things such as gaming, productivity, and programming, I still feel that PCs are probably the better option as I have a wider capacity to do upgrades and have access to a wider array of software.
Ultimately it is down to what you want to do with the system. Mac has by far the better list of graphics tools (both 2D and 3D) and in general better screens and less compatibility issues (because of a smaller list of certified hardware). Whereas PC is lower end product that is like a jack of all trades. You can't compare a specialized/niche product such as Mac directly to that of the PC and expect a fair comparison.
>> Regarding Maxhomie's attack [in pg 3]:
"Welcome to a bunch of trolls that have turned this place into CNET? I don't post much, because I usually enjoy the exchanges between the more experienced and knowledgeable members."
I find it really amusing how fanboism from Mac's side is making the rest of us Mac users look like a bunch of hypocrites. Stop bashing other people if they have their own opinion, just show them "where" they were wrong and why Mac is a better product. Doing personal offense (* especially to PC elitists) just shows how immature you are.
After using Windows for 20 years, and Linux for 12, I feel the extra money is well worth it. If you like to tinker with hardware and the OS, I'd try Slackware Linux. At least then, it is by choice! This kind of stuff can be very fun, but it stinks when you are trying to fix Windows and MS is no help.
*sound of me repeatedly hitting my head on desk*
Okay, whoever made that ad needs to be fired. Now. What the hell is MS thinking? God.
Anyways, I saw a lot of people talking about benchmark comparisons between macs and PCs, so I decided to see for myself.
I looked at a computer on Apple.com and customized it a bit.
A 15-inch Macbook Pro with
- 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
- 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM (2 Dimms)
- 250GB Serial ATA HDD @ 5400rpm
- 8x optical disc drive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
- NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT graphics card with 256MB dedicated video memory
costs $2099.00.I then went to dell.com and looked at a computer there, and customized it a bit.
A 16-inch Dell Studio XPS 16 with
- Intel® Core? 2 Duo T9800 (6MB cache/2.93GHz/1066Mhz FSB)
- Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-bit (yes, it really can handle the next entry...)
- 5GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1067MHz (2 Dimms)
- 320GB Serial ATA HDD @ 7200rpm
- 8X optical drive (DVD+/- R/RW CD-RW)
- ATI Mobility RADEON® HD 3670 graphics card with 512MB dedicated video memory
costs $1,949.00.I am not certain about battery life. As far as I could tell, Apple's website did not mention anything about the computer's battery life, so I'm going to guess the at 3-5 hours from the people below. The Dell ships with a six-cell battery (whatever that means), with an option to add an additional 9-cell battery for $80. (The computer has one battery port, so you would have to switch batteries to change them). In the past, Dell called the 9-cell battery an "85whr" and I think the the 6-cell was a "65whr". They did not elaborate on what "whr" is, so maybe someone can tell me?
The rest of the specifications (such as backlit keyboard, webcam, physical dimensions, weight, included software/accessories, etc.) were either not easily comparable, or merely matters of personal preference, so I purposely did not include them.
Essentially, my point is, for $150.00 less, you are getting
- A processor that is 0.5GHz faster
- An extra GB of RAM (and the same type of RAM as the Macbook, too, so you have nothing there like you did with MS's shitty commercial)
- HDD that is 70GB larger and 1.5 times as fast
- Graphics card which has twice as much memory.
A computer with comparable specifications (actually, essentially identical) to the Macbook mentioned above is a (very slightly modified) Studio XPS 13. If the graphics card is upgraded to the GeForce 9500M, comparable to the one that the Macbook has, this model costs $1,229. (the processor and RAM are the same by default; the Dell has a slightly (inconsequentially, IMHO) larger HDD)Why on earth would I want to spend nine hundred dollars extra to get identical specifications? What does a Macintosh have that could possibly justify this? And don't tell me that Macs are more reliable. They may be, but I have had a Dell laptop for three and a half years, and I have had zero problems with the hardware.
How the hell do you even know that - were you inside Bill Gates head? or are you referring to a movie with Noah Wyle as Steve Jobs? And why would a Mac "send him into a tizzy"- I don't recall Gates and Microsoft making a computer- ever.
I'm surprised by the criticism of this ad. The Lauren one was pretty stupid, but this one is right on the money, IMO.
I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost
My vetch is not really with the price anyway. I don't mind paying more to get a Mac. My criticism is with Apple's limited hardware choices. I want a consumer laptop with firewire, a dedicated graphics card, a matte screen, a proper extended keyboard, express card and memory card slots, and HDMI out. Apple can't do that at any price.
Of course, what's still bad about this ad from MS' standpoint, is that it is an ad for HP
hardware, and not for Windows. Even if someone found the HP laptop they liked, they still could just put a different OS on it.
Nicef looking boxes, pass me what you smoking.
Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".
So what if he wants to pay for a brand, the majority of the world pays for brands which is why companies with a higher brand value than others can charge, it sucks for those who can't afford one to complain but thats life.
Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".
His argument makes total sense, unfortunately yours is nonsense.
You alone can decide what you want to buy and whether you want to spend more or less money on something. Some people spend crazy amounts of money on clothes but would never spend more than the minimum on a car.
What does it matter whether Dell is a large or small company? As for best value? It all depends on what you mean by that. Many people would say the design of the Mac, the lack of viruses and all the software that the Mac comes with constitute value.
If you're not "some idiot who pay $900 extra buck just for the brand" does that mean you're just an idiot then? lol