One thing worth considering is that if Nokia has a bad year based on the current economy, all the others to include Apple will suffer to some extent. People are not simply going to say: "Oh, I do not have as much money, I better go buy an iPhone instead of that Nokia I always wanted". The same people that would buy Nokia's no matter what are no different than the iPhone purchasers. Nokia will lose market share until they release their new phones which people are waiting to buy. Not to mention that they shipped 13 Million 5800XM's and the new E75 is sold out in most places with the N97 highly anticipated. The market will ebb and flow but in the end Nokia, because of shear size and current market situation will still stay on top, just not as much as before.
By the way, Symbian can run on Atom processors. So this should prove interesting in the near future.
First of all, it's MARKETSHARE they lost, in addition to actual sales.
What does that tell you? It tells you that they ARE buying iPhones and others over Nokia's models. Otherwise, they would have lost sales but kept the same marketshare.
Secondly, please stop giving incorrect information about the 5800's sales. They sold 3 million.
The only thing abut the N97 that I really like is the higher rez screen. The screen's a bit smaller though, as it's also 3.5" diag., it's thinner than the one in the iPhone because it's 16/9. Not sure I like that.
First of all, it's MARKETSHARE they lost, in addition to actual sales.
What does that tell you? It tells you that they ARE buying iPhones and others over Nokia's models. Otherwise, they would have lost sales but kept the same marketshare.
Secondly, please stop giving incorrect information about the 5800's sales. They sold 3 million.
Enough!
For one of the smarter posters on this forum you seemed to have missed my posts #174 and #176 where I NEVER SAID NOKIA SOLD 13 MILLION 5800XM's. I said shipped. Read it again and then get back to me mmmmk...
And once again, I will also agree that there are people buying iPhones and Samsungs, etc... but as I have said over and over and NO ONE has answered so I will ask again. If the iPhone is the wonder that many here claim, why are not the sales figures even higher as well as the market share? For me it is quite simple. While many want an iPhone, many, many more do not. These do nots are the ones Apple has to worry about. So in essence, Apple has it core purchasers who will buy from them no matter what as does Samsung and Nokia. The market numbers you see now will most likely remain the same plus or minus a few percentage points but I would not expect Apple to eat significantly into Nokia or even Samsungs markets. These are the big three and they will probably stay that way. The other guys will gain and lose shares as well but they will not crack the top 3. This is reminiscent of the time when SE was supposed to kill Nokia when Sony and Ericsson combined, and launched the P800. We see where SE is a few years later. This is all good theatre and fodder for the fanboys that find their identification and reason for living in a certain brand. Like I said I will stick with Mac OS X because there is nothing better, but if Microsoft came out with a better OS tomorrow, I would go to it in a heartbeat. It is all about what works, not the label.
The only thing abut the N97 that I really like is the higher rez screen. The screen's a bit smaller though, as it's also 3.5" diag., it's thinner than the one in the iPhone because it's 16/9. Not sure I like that.
For one of the smarter posters on this forum you seemed to have missed my posts #174 and #176 where I NEVER SAID NOKIA SOLD 13 MILLION 5800XM's. I said shipped. Read it again and then get back to me mmmmk...
And once again, I will also agree that there are people buying iPhones and Samsungs, etc... but as I have said over and over and NO ONE has answered so I will ask again. If the iPhone is the wonder that many here claim, why are not the sales figures even higher as well as the market share? For me it is quite simple. While many want an iPhone, many, many more do not. These do nots are the ones Apple has to worry about. So in essence, Apple has it core purchasers who will buy from them no matter what as does Samsung and Nokia. The market numbers you see now will most likely remain the same plus or minus a few percentage points but I would not expect Apple to eat significantly into Nokia or even Samsungs markets. These are the big three and they will probably stay that way. The other guys will gain and lose shares as well but they will not crack the top 3. This is reminiscent of the time when SE was supposed to kill Nokia when Sony and Ericsson combined, and launched the P800. We see where SE is a few years later. This is all good theatre and fodder for the fanboys that find their identification and reason for living in a certain brand. Like I said I will stick with Mac OS X because there is nothing better, but if Microsoft came out with a better OS tomorrow, I would go to it in a heartbeat. It is all about what works, not the label.
Sappor, there is little difference between shipped and sold. No company ever ships much more than it thinks it will sell during a given period. That's financial suicide. It cost a lot of money to manufacture product. It costs a fair amount to ship it around the world. No one, whether the manufacturer, the distributer, or the stores, likes to warehouse lots of unsold product for what could be several quarters, esp. during a severe downturn.
That's why the 13 million number is simply wrong whether is is for sold, OR for shipped items.
I don't see how you get the rest of your argument either. You have seen the sales charts. Nokia's numbers are moving down, RIM and Apple's numbers are moving up significantly. That's a big shift.
No one is saying the the iPhone is the " Jesus" phone, or the "wonder" phone.
BUT, and it's a big but, the iPhone has changed the industry around. For the first time, the carriers hare having to give in on feature sets in favor of phone manufacturers. Apple was the only one with the balls to try this. Even mighty Nokia didn't have the balls to try that.
This is why everyone is playing catch-up to Apple.
Remember that Apple is the newest phone manufacturer around. They've done remarkably well to sell what they have. Will they become number one in smartphones? Likely not. They weren't trying for that, though their success might make them try harder for it.
When Apple first came out with the iPod, in an interview, Jobs said" we think it's a nice little product for us." I really don't think that he, or Apple, thought it would become what it did. But when it began to snowball, they were VERY smart about the way they exploited it. Other companies were far too slow to catch on, and look what happened.
Now, they are a bit smarter. But, even so, a computer phone is vastly more complex an undertaking that an iPod, no matter how good.
Some people are making a big mistake in concentrating on criticizing Apple for the lack of some "features". They're completely missing the point! Feature bloat is one of the biggest complaints people have for products. Adding difficult to use, or even to find, features that most of the users won't be using anyway is not the way to a successful product. The Nxx series of handsets has been described as "clunky". That's even for the new N97. Whether that will remain a problem for Nokia is yet to be seen, but it sure is a clunky looking product!
Also, arguing about how many pixels the phone has is besides the point. Most people use those pictures to send them online to someone else, and whatever IQ the pictures MAY have when first taken doesn't survive the journey, so people don't care. Apple is going to a better camera anyway, more than good enough.
We'll see how sales go when they intro the new ones in June, along with the new, and FREE 3.0 upgrade to everyone else. But, I think that they will do well. The fact that Apple isn't obsoleting the older phones is unique in the phone business, and is also forcing other companies to do the same, which is crushing their business models. That's significant as well, and you should note that. Companies that are used to getting a big lift in sales each time a new model came out with a newer version of the OS will not get that lift again, unless their phones are truly much better, something that new models never were, just minor updates to the older models. Apple has forced that upon other manufacturers.
Apple also has a VERY large amount of money coming in from their app store, and now from iTunes as well, as you can buy songs over the 3G network as well. Other phone manufacturers don't have that, and it's really a question as to whether they will ever have that. If they ever get significant revenues from their own stores, it will take several years to do so. One major reason is that most of the smartphones they have sold, and are selling even now, can't use those programs the stores are selling. It will take at least two years until their customers transition over to new phones capable of doing that. Meanwhile, Apple will have sold a lot more phones, and will have seen the app store grow to several times its size, in sales, as well as in number of apps.
Just like the iPod, and iTunes, Apple may very well gain an insurmountable lead, even if they aren't selling the most smartphones because others have cheaper, less sophisticated, models in their lineup than does Apple.
The iPhone/iTouch is now becoming a rival to the Nintendo DS models and the Sony PSP. No other phone can ever do that. They are all too late. Remember how badly the N-Gage devices did?
Lastly, and I know you're happy about that, Apple has one thing that no other company has, or is likely to have, and that's a vast third party universe of add-on hardware. This will never change. Apple has, again, very smartly, made it so that most accessories work with both their phones and iPods, giving the manufacturers a vast number of devices to sell to. People upgrading from any number of iPods often find that their accessories work just fine with the phone. The iTouch is also a companion product which helps that significantly.
No other company has anything like this, and never will. They are far too divided in every way.
To add to it is the new 3.0 OS. This allows even far more sophisticated hardware and software to attach themselves to both the iPhone and iTouch. The number of devices that are already out there capable of taking advantage of that is now over 30 million, and rising rapidly. That's very large present user base that companies will be able to tap into. No one else can point to that either.
So I have to say that your argument is wrong. When you look at the surface, you might be seeing what you do, but when look beneath, you see an entire world that you missed. It's that world that's going to make both the iPhone and iTouch a major success, even if the iPhone sales numbers don't exceed the sales numbers of a company such as Nokia's total number of phone model sales.
Apple will be laughing on their way to the bank, while Nokia and some others will be trying to squeeze some profit out of their lines.
Lastly, and I know you're happy about that, Apple has one thing that no other company has, or is likely to have, and that's a vast third party universe of add-on hardware. This will never change. Apple has, again, very smartly, made it so that most accessories work with both their phones and iPods, giving the manufacturers a vast number of devices to sell to. People upgrading from any number of iPods often find that their accessories work just fine with the phone. The iTouch is also a companion product which helps that significantly.
Any word on why so many accessories didn't work with the new iPhone/iPods? What was changed? I figure it was a long time coming since having a single connector that keeps the same design and pin setup for 7 years is pretty rare, especially when it doesn't seem to be obsolescing in favour of a new setup.
Quote:
We'll see how sales go when they intro the new ones in June, along with the new, and FREE 3.0 upgrade to everyone else. But, I think that they will do well. The fact that Apple isn't obsoleting the older phones is unique in the phone business, and is also forcing other companies to do the same, which is crushing their business models. That's significant as well, and you should note that. Companies that are used to getting a big lift in sales each time a new model came out with a newer version of the OS will not get that lift again, unless their phones are truly much better, something that new models never were, just minor updates to the older models. Apple has forced that upon other manufacturers.
The giving away of v3.0 to original iPhone owners surprised me. I thought that SOx would have prevented them from doing it since the accounting was for 2 years, so they would have charged for it. Could the App Store revenue and/or iTS revenue on the iPhone be so good that they don't care about the HW upsell? Or is that they know that the next iPhone HW is so far ahead that they think people won't the original one so it's more of an empty gesture that doesn't really make a difference to R&D since it's nearly identical to the current, 3G version?
I think there is something up here since the original iPhone will be getting free point releases for up to, at least 3 years now. Some G5 owners will be able to say that about a paid update to Snow Leopard. Perhaps, as you elude to, it's just to undermine the rest of the industry business strategy at this point to give Apple a further lead with their premium media-phone offering.
This was answered when Steve Jobs first announced the iPhone, Apple clearly stated their goal was for the iPhone to hold 1% of the mobile phone market. RIM only holds 1.9%.
You are the only person who expects a premium phone with a premium service to dominate. That is an extrmely unrealistic expectation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns
And once again, I will also agree that there are people buying iPhones and Samsungs, etc... but as I have said over and over and NO ONE has answered so I will ask again. If the iPhone is the wonder that many here claim, why are not the sales figures even higher as well as the market share? For me it is quite simple. While many want an iPhone, many, many more do not.
Any word on why so many accessories didn't work with the new iPhone/iPods? What was changed? I figure it was a long time coming since having a single connector that keeps the same design and pin setup for 7 years is pretty rare, especially when it doesn't seem to be obsolescing in favour of a new setup.
A lot of them do work. Some don't. If an accessory depended on something specific, which they shouldn't have, then when Apple makes some changes to that area, it doesn't work. You'd think that these companies would learn. Like when Apple changed something for the iPhone, some third party rechargers didn't work, but some did. What does that tell us?
Quote:
The giving away of v3.0 to original iPhone owners surprised me. I thought that SOx would have prevented them from doing it since the accounting was for 2 years, so they would have charged for it. Could the App Store revenue and/or iTS revenue on the iPhone be so good that they don't care about the HW upsell? Or is that they know that the next iPhone HW is so far ahead that they think people won't the original one so it's more of an empty gesture that doesn't really make a difference to R&D since it's nearly identical to the current, 3G version?
This might be the last free OS upgrade the first iPhone will get, as this will be the end of that two year period. Even so, that's an amazing run. Even if next year, those owners have to pay the $9.95, that's still pretty good.
Likely all of your reasons come into play. It's rarely just one reason, unless that's got some overriding advantage. Also, over time, the first phone becomes less of a percentage of all phones, so giving it to them becomes less of a burden, if we can call it that.
The new phone will likely be a good improvement over the original, how much is anyone's guess.
Like iPods, most owners upgrade to the newer models, so Apple is likely to keep them within the family, and this is just good will.
Quote:
I think there is something up here since the original iPhone will be getting free point releases for up to, at least 3 years now. Some G5 owners will be able to say that about a paid update to Snow Leopard. Perhaps, as you elude to, it's just to undermine the rest of the industry business strategy at this point to give Apple a further lead with their premium media-phone offering.
Yes. This is a good reason. I know that many people who have never ran businesses don't understand the thinking that goes behind some major decisions. They see the immediate fallout, and think that that's it, when there are far deeper reasons involved.
Business is not just looking to your own product stable and customers, but to every other one as well. You constantly try to undermine your competitors. That's why Jack Tramiel said, when he bought out the computer division of Atari and came out with the St, that business was war. He was right. It is. It's a cold war. You have to look ahead to out maneuver your opponents, and apply misdirection. You let them think that something is a minor update when it adds something that will zap them.
You come out with a phone, and tell everyone that it's NOT a handheld computer, but just a phone. You force your competitors to follow that model as best as they can, a year to two years late, and then you bomb them with an app store that they now have to attempt to match another year later, poorly, because they now have to do it in a hurry, rather than to take the time to get it really right.
You then leverage you sales with another major feature set (third party hardware and software hook into the connector as never before) that no one can match, because they have all these different models out there with none selling in enough numbers to intice third party companies.
You keep doing this, and watch those competitors fall over each other trying to figure out how to match what you're doing, but never quite able to do so because ypu're a moving target with a much better basic concept of where you're going.
So you've forced them to compete on different models and prices that prevents them from taking advantage of what you're doing. Exactly what Apple wants them to do.
They fall further behind because even though some techies are crying about some unimportant features to the vast majority, that others are mistakenly thinking they should add in order to compete, you're making basic advances that they're ignoring, or can't seem to understand.
A close study has shown that opening the doors to iPhones at large-scale business has not only made workers happier but has often saved money over competing smartphones in the process.
Not until Apple provides a way to globally delete email off the handheld.
Blackberry's "Delete Prior" command is not available on iPhone. No one can spend the time deleting thousands of email one at a time, it's absurd Apple would even ask a user to consider such a thing.
I have over 9500 email on iPhone weighing in at 5.3 Gig. By next week, I will have close to 12,000. Sometimes, it takes up to 3 minutes for the contents of the inbox to appear. The whole unit gets sluggish.
These email can't be deleted off the corporate server, it's against US law. iPhone has limited storage capabilities, so Apple must deliver a method for protecting that limited space by enabling the user to select a date, and delete all email prior to that date off the handheld.
Not until Apple provides a way to globally delete email off the handheld.
Can't you do that now with Exchange or IMAP-based mail?
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Originally Posted by melgross
What AI says is true.
I know a couple people working for large corps. that are moving to the iPhone. One is letting the user decide and the other is making the move completely per department as they are also making native corporate apps to go with the iPhone. Pretty damn impressive for a device under 2 years old and an SDK only a year old.
Blackberry's "Delete Prior" command is not available on iPhone. No one can spend the time deleting thousands of email one at a time, it's absurd Apple would even ask a user to consider such a thing.
I have over 9500 email on iPhone weighing in at 5.3 Gig. By next week, I will have close to 12,000. Sometimes, it takes up to 3 minutes for the contents of the inbox to appear. The whole unit gets sluggish.
These email can't be deleted off the corporate server, it's against US law. iPhone has limited storage capabilities, so Apple must deliver a method for protecting that limited space by enabling the user to select a date, and delete all email prior to that date off the handheld.
Deleting one email at a time is ridiculous.
You can say what you want, but more than a few large businesses are adopting the iPhone. In some cases, by the thousands.
Your concern is obviously not the concern of everyone.
Can't you do that now with Exchange or IMAP-based mail?
I know a couple people working for large corps. that are moving to the iPhone. One is letting the user decide and the other is making the move completely per department as they are also making native corporate apps to go with the iPhone. Pretty damn impressive for a device under 2 years old and an SDK only a year old.
Some major companies started adopting them even with the OS ver 1.0.
It's interesting that people can't seem to read, or they would see that some of these companies are named, and are adopting them at high rates.
Whatever they may think, that makes what they say wrong for many others. They may have a concern that don't know enough about to do anything that can alleviate that concern, but there are obviously other people in IT who are knowledgeable enough to know how to deal with it.
Some major companies started adopting them even with the OS ver 1.0.
It's interesting that people can't seem to read, or they would see that some of these companies are named, and are adopting them at high rates.
Whatever they may think, that makes what they say wrong for many others. They may have a concern that don't know enough about to do anything that can alleviate that concern, but there are obviously other people in IT who are knowledgeable enough to know how to deal with it.
It's my belief that RiM will have a very tough time come the end of this year. I know they are selling more units, which I feel is partly because Apple has made the smartphone more likable in general, but I think their business model of selling server-side HW to connect to a company's local Exchange server and the per user license fees are going to have to cut severely for them to stay competitive.
Their method was great when they introduced it, and from what I can tell it still uses less power on the handset to maintain the Push connection than the iPhone and other handsets use for email, But that benefit is so minor with so many years of evolving phone tech that they are outdated and overpriced.
I think they will sell more units next year, but the areas that they make their money will kill their quarterly earnings.
You can say what you want, but more than a few large businesses are adopting the iPhone. In some cases, by the thousands.
Your concern is obviously not the concern of everyone.
I can say what I want? Wow, so gracious.
Look, there were almost 140 million smartphones sold in 2008, and Apple had about a 10-11% market share.
So, maybe 90% of smartphone users agree with me.
It's a simple function to implement, would make lots of sense, would help out the thousands of businesses you've somehow identified... do you really want to debate something so illogical? Let's just make it a better platform instead.
Look, there were almost 140 million smartphones sold in 2008, and Apple had about a 10-11% market share.
So, maybe 90% of smartphone users agree with me.
It's a simple function to implement, would make lots of sense, would help out the thousands of businesses you've somehow identified... do you really want to debate something so illogical? Let's just make it a better platform instead.
Settings>General>Erase all content and settings.
Plug into iTunes > restore does the same thing BUT as you left all your emails on the server the legal requirements are fulfilled.
Look, there were almost 140 million smartphones sold in 2008, and Apple had about a 10-11% market share.
So, maybe 90% of smartphone users agree with me.
It's a simple function to implement, would make lots of sense, would help out the thousands of businesses you've somehow identified... do you really want to debate something so illogical? Let's just make it a better platform instead.
Maybe not. Most smartphones aren't sold to business. You're only talking about that.
Besides, the iPhone is still fairly new. Business users seem to think it's much better than the Blackberry according to more than one survey. More reliable too.
Plug into iTunes > restore does the same thing BUT as you left all your emails on the server the legal requirements are fulfilled.
I know matt_s is going to state that your solution isn't ideal, and he's right, but it's a solution to freeing up 5GB. But wouldn't be better to delete the mail account and then re-add it, so you get to keep all your iPhone settings?
Comments
One thing worth considering is that if Nokia has a bad year based on the current economy, all the others to include Apple will suffer to some extent. People are not simply going to say: "Oh, I do not have as much money, I better go buy an iPhone instead of that Nokia I always wanted". The same people that would buy Nokia's no matter what are no different than the iPhone purchasers. Nokia will lose market share until they release their new phones which people are waiting to buy. Not to mention that they shipped 13 Million 5800XM's and the new E75 is sold out in most places with the N97 highly anticipated. The market will ebb and flow but in the end Nokia, because of shear size and current market situation will still stay on top, just not as much as before.
By the way, Symbian can run on Atom processors. So this should prove interesting in the near future.
First of all, it's MARKETSHARE they lost, in addition to actual sales.
What does that tell you? It tells you that they ARE buying iPhones and others over Nokia's models. Otherwise, they would have lost sales but kept the same marketshare.
Secondly, please stop giving incorrect information about the 5800's sales. They sold 3 million.
Enough!
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/16/nok...ity-apple.html
First of all, it's MARKETSHARE they lost, in addition to actual sales.
What does that tell you? It tells you that they ARE buying iPhones and others over Nokia's models. Otherwise, they would have lost sales but kept the same marketshare.
Secondly, please stop giving incorrect information about the 5800's sales. They sold 3 million.
Enough!
For one of the smarter posters on this forum you seemed to have missed my posts #174 and #176 where I NEVER SAID NOKIA SOLD 13 MILLION 5800XM's. I said shipped. Read it again and then get back to me mmmmk...
And once again, I will also agree that there are people buying iPhones and Samsungs, etc... but as I have said over and over and NO ONE has answered so I will ask again. If the iPhone is the wonder that many here claim, why are not the sales figures even higher as well as the market share? For me it is quite simple. While many want an iPhone, many, many more do not. These do nots are the ones Apple has to worry about. So in essence, Apple has it core purchasers who will buy from them no matter what as does Samsung and Nokia. The market numbers you see now will most likely remain the same plus or minus a few percentage points but I would not expect Apple to eat significantly into Nokia or even Samsungs markets. These are the big three and they will probably stay that way. The other guys will gain and lose shares as well but they will not crack the top 3. This is reminiscent of the time when SE was supposed to kill Nokia when Sony and Ericsson combined, and launched the P800. We see where SE is a few years later. This is all good theatre and fodder for the fanboys that find their identification and reason for living in a certain brand. Like I said I will stick with Mac OS X because there is nothing better, but if Microsoft came out with a better OS tomorrow, I would go to it in a heartbeat. It is all about what works, not the label.
The only thing abut the N97 that I really like is the higher rez screen. The screen's a bit smaller though, as it's also 3.5" diag., it's thinner than the one in the iPhone because it's 16/9. Not sure I like that.
Does it matter if you do or do not like it?
For one of the smarter posters on this forum you seemed to have missed my posts #174 and #176 where I NEVER SAID NOKIA SOLD 13 MILLION 5800XM's. I said shipped. Read it again and then get back to me mmmmk...
And once again, I will also agree that there are people buying iPhones and Samsungs, etc... but as I have said over and over and NO ONE has answered so I will ask again. If the iPhone is the wonder that many here claim, why are not the sales figures even higher as well as the market share? For me it is quite simple. While many want an iPhone, many, many more do not. These do nots are the ones Apple has to worry about. So in essence, Apple has it core purchasers who will buy from them no matter what as does Samsung and Nokia. The market numbers you see now will most likely remain the same plus or minus a few percentage points but I would not expect Apple to eat significantly into Nokia or even Samsungs markets. These are the big three and they will probably stay that way. The other guys will gain and lose shares as well but they will not crack the top 3. This is reminiscent of the time when SE was supposed to kill Nokia when Sony and Ericsson combined, and launched the P800. We see where SE is a few years later. This is all good theatre and fodder for the fanboys that find their identification and reason for living in a certain brand. Like I said I will stick with Mac OS X because there is nothing better, but if Microsoft came out with a better OS tomorrow, I would go to it in a heartbeat. It is all about what works, not the label.
Sappor, there is little difference between shipped and sold. No company ever ships much more than it thinks it will sell during a given period. That's financial suicide. It cost a lot of money to manufacture product. It costs a fair amount to ship it around the world. No one, whether the manufacturer, the distributer, or the stores, likes to warehouse lots of unsold product for what could be several quarters, esp. during a severe downturn.
That's why the 13 million number is simply wrong whether is is for sold, OR for shipped items.
I don't see how you get the rest of your argument either. You have seen the sales charts. Nokia's numbers are moving down, RIM and Apple's numbers are moving up significantly. That's a big shift.
No one is saying the the iPhone is the " Jesus" phone, or the "wonder" phone.
BUT, and it's a big but, the iPhone has changed the industry around. For the first time, the carriers hare having to give in on feature sets in favor of phone manufacturers. Apple was the only one with the balls to try this. Even mighty Nokia didn't have the balls to try that.
This is why everyone is playing catch-up to Apple.
Remember that Apple is the newest phone manufacturer around. They've done remarkably well to sell what they have. Will they become number one in smartphones? Likely not. They weren't trying for that, though their success might make them try harder for it.
When Apple first came out with the iPod, in an interview, Jobs said" we think it's a nice little product for us." I really don't think that he, or Apple, thought it would become what it did. But when it began to snowball, they were VERY smart about the way they exploited it. Other companies were far too slow to catch on, and look what happened.
Now, they are a bit smarter. But, even so, a computer phone is vastly more complex an undertaking that an iPod, no matter how good.
Some people are making a big mistake in concentrating on criticizing Apple for the lack of some "features". They're completely missing the point! Feature bloat is one of the biggest complaints people have for products. Adding difficult to use, or even to find, features that most of the users won't be using anyway is not the way to a successful product. The Nxx series of handsets has been described as "clunky". That's even for the new N97. Whether that will remain a problem for Nokia is yet to be seen, but it sure is a clunky looking product!
Also, arguing about how many pixels the phone has is besides the point. Most people use those pictures to send them online to someone else, and whatever IQ the pictures MAY have when first taken doesn't survive the journey, so people don't care. Apple is going to a better camera anyway, more than good enough.
We'll see how sales go when they intro the new ones in June, along with the new, and FREE 3.0 upgrade to everyone else. But, I think that they will do well. The fact that Apple isn't obsoleting the older phones is unique in the phone business, and is also forcing other companies to do the same, which is crushing their business models. That's significant as well, and you should note that. Companies that are used to getting a big lift in sales each time a new model came out with a newer version of the OS will not get that lift again, unless their phones are truly much better, something that new models never were, just minor updates to the older models. Apple has forced that upon other manufacturers.
Apple also has a VERY large amount of money coming in from their app store, and now from iTunes as well, as you can buy songs over the 3G network as well. Other phone manufacturers don't have that, and it's really a question as to whether they will ever have that. If they ever get significant revenues from their own stores, it will take several years to do so. One major reason is that most of the smartphones they have sold, and are selling even now, can't use those programs the stores are selling. It will take at least two years until their customers transition over to new phones capable of doing that. Meanwhile, Apple will have sold a lot more phones, and will have seen the app store grow to several times its size, in sales, as well as in number of apps.
Just like the iPod, and iTunes, Apple may very well gain an insurmountable lead, even if they aren't selling the most smartphones because others have cheaper, less sophisticated, models in their lineup than does Apple.
The iPhone/iTouch is now becoming a rival to the Nintendo DS models and the Sony PSP. No other phone can ever do that. They are all too late. Remember how badly the N-Gage devices did?
Lastly, and I know you're happy about that, Apple has one thing that no other company has, or is likely to have, and that's a vast third party universe of add-on hardware. This will never change. Apple has, again, very smartly, made it so that most accessories work with both their phones and iPods, giving the manufacturers a vast number of devices to sell to. People upgrading from any number of iPods often find that their accessories work just fine with the phone. The iTouch is also a companion product which helps that significantly.
No other company has anything like this, and never will. They are far too divided in every way.
To add to it is the new 3.0 OS. This allows even far more sophisticated hardware and software to attach themselves to both the iPhone and iTouch. The number of devices that are already out there capable of taking advantage of that is now over 30 million, and rising rapidly. That's very large present user base that companies will be able to tap into. No one else can point to that either.
So I have to say that your argument is wrong. When you look at the surface, you might be seeing what you do, but when look beneath, you see an entire world that you missed. It's that world that's going to make both the iPhone and iTouch a major success, even if the iPhone sales numbers don't exceed the sales numbers of a company such as Nokia's total number of phone model sales.
Apple will be laughing on their way to the bank, while Nokia and some others will be trying to squeeze some profit out of their lines.
Lastly, and I know you're happy about that, Apple has one thing that no other company has, or is likely to have, and that's a vast third party universe of add-on hardware. This will never change. Apple has, again, very smartly, made it so that most accessories work with both their phones and iPods, giving the manufacturers a vast number of devices to sell to. People upgrading from any number of iPods often find that their accessories work just fine with the phone. The iTouch is also a companion product which helps that significantly.
Any word on why so many accessories didn't work with the new iPhone/iPods? What was changed? I figure it was a long time coming since having a single connector that keeps the same design and pin setup for 7 years is pretty rare, especially when it doesn't seem to be obsolescing in favour of a new setup.
We'll see how sales go when they intro the new ones in June, along with the new, and FREE 3.0 upgrade to everyone else. But, I think that they will do well. The fact that Apple isn't obsoleting the older phones is unique in the phone business, and is also forcing other companies to do the same, which is crushing their business models. That's significant as well, and you should note that. Companies that are used to getting a big lift in sales each time a new model came out with a newer version of the OS will not get that lift again, unless their phones are truly much better, something that new models never were, just minor updates to the older models. Apple has forced that upon other manufacturers.
The giving away of v3.0 to original iPhone owners surprised me. I thought that SOx would have prevented them from doing it since the accounting was for 2 years, so they would have charged for it. Could the App Store revenue and/or iTS revenue on the iPhone be so good that they don't care about the HW upsell? Or is that they know that the next iPhone HW is so far ahead that they think people won't the original one so it's more of an empty gesture that doesn't really make a difference to R&D since it's nearly identical to the current, 3G version?
I think there is something up here since the original iPhone will be getting free point releases for up to, at least 3 years now. Some G5 owners will be able to say that about a paid update to Snow Leopard.
You are the only person who expects a premium phone with a premium service to dominate. That is an extrmely unrealistic expectation.
And once again, I will also agree that there are people buying iPhones and Samsungs, etc... but as I have said over and over and NO ONE has answered so I will ask again. If the iPhone is the wonder that many here claim, why are not the sales figures even higher as well as the market share? For me it is quite simple. While many want an iPhone, many, many more do not.
Any word on why so many accessories didn't work with the new iPhone/iPods? What was changed? I figure it was a long time coming since having a single connector that keeps the same design and pin setup for 7 years is pretty rare, especially when it doesn't seem to be obsolescing in favour of a new setup.
A lot of them do work. Some don't. If an accessory depended on something specific, which they shouldn't have, then when Apple makes some changes to that area, it doesn't work. You'd think that these companies would learn. Like when Apple changed something for the iPhone, some third party rechargers didn't work, but some did. What does that tell us?
The giving away of v3.0 to original iPhone owners surprised me. I thought that SOx would have prevented them from doing it since the accounting was for 2 years, so they would have charged for it. Could the App Store revenue and/or iTS revenue on the iPhone be so good that they don't care about the HW upsell? Or is that they know that the next iPhone HW is so far ahead that they think people won't the original one so it's more of an empty gesture that doesn't really make a difference to R&D since it's nearly identical to the current, 3G version?
This might be the last free OS upgrade the first iPhone will get, as this will be the end of that two year period. Even so, that's an amazing run. Even if next year, those owners have to pay the $9.95, that's still pretty good.
Likely all of your reasons come into play. It's rarely just one reason, unless that's got some overriding advantage. Also, over time, the first phone becomes less of a percentage of all phones, so giving it to them becomes less of a burden, if we can call it that.
The new phone will likely be a good improvement over the original, how much is anyone's guess.
Like iPods, most owners upgrade to the newer models, so Apple is likely to keep them within the family, and this is just good will.
I think there is something up here since the original iPhone will be getting free point releases for up to, at least 3 years now. Some G5 owners will be able to say that about a paid update to Snow Leopard.
Yes. This is a good reason. I know that many people who have never ran businesses don't understand the thinking that goes behind some major decisions. They see the immediate fallout, and think that that's it, when there are far deeper reasons involved.
Business is not just looking to your own product stable and customers, but to every other one as well. You constantly try to undermine your competitors. That's why Jack Tramiel said, when he bought out the computer division of Atari and came out with the St, that business was war. He was right. It is. It's a cold war. You have to look ahead to out maneuver your opponents, and apply misdirection. You let them think that something is a minor update when it adds something that will zap them.
You come out with a phone, and tell everyone that it's NOT a handheld computer, but just a phone. You force your competitors to follow that model as best as they can, a year to two years late, and then you bomb them with an app store that they now have to attempt to match another year later, poorly, because they now have to do it in a hurry, rather than to take the time to get it really right.
You then leverage you sales with another major feature set (third party hardware and software hook into the connector as never before) that no one can match, because they have all these different models out there with none selling in enough numbers to intice third party companies.
You keep doing this, and watch those competitors fall over each other trying to figure out how to match what you're doing, but never quite able to do so because ypu're a moving target with a much better basic concept of where you're going.
So you've forced them to compete on different models and prices that prevents them from taking advantage of what you're doing. Exactly what Apple wants them to do.
They fall further behind because even though some techies are crying about some unimportant features to the vast majority, that others are mistakenly thinking they should add in order to compete, you're making basic advances that they're ignoring, or can't seem to understand.
Great strategy!
A close study has shown that opening the doors to iPhones at large-scale business has not only made workers happier but has often saved money over competing smartphones in the process.
Not until Apple provides a way to globally delete email off the handheld.
Not until Apple provides a way to globally delete email off the handheld.
What AI says is true.
What AI says is true.
Blackberry's "Delete Prior" command is not available on iPhone. No one can spend the time deleting thousands of email one at a time, it's absurd Apple would even ask a user to consider such a thing.
I have over 9500 email on iPhone weighing in at 5.3 Gig. By next week, I will have close to 12,000. Sometimes, it takes up to 3 minutes for the contents of the inbox to appear. The whole unit gets sluggish.
These email can't be deleted off the corporate server, it's against US law. iPhone has limited storage capabilities, so Apple must deliver a method for protecting that limited space by enabling the user to select a date, and delete all email prior to that date off the handheld.
Deleting one email at a time is ridiculous.
Not until Apple provides a way to globally delete email off the handheld.
Can't you do that now with Exchange or IMAP-based mail?
What AI says is true.
I know a couple people working for large corps. that are moving to the iPhone. One is letting the user decide and the other is making the move completely per department as they are also making native corporate apps to go with the iPhone. Pretty damn impressive for a device under 2 years old and an SDK only a year old.
Blackberry's "Delete Prior" command is not available on iPhone. No one can spend the time deleting thousands of email one at a time, it's absurd Apple would even ask a user to consider such a thing.
I have over 9500 email on iPhone weighing in at 5.3 Gig. By next week, I will have close to 12,000. Sometimes, it takes up to 3 minutes for the contents of the inbox to appear. The whole unit gets sluggish.
These email can't be deleted off the corporate server, it's against US law. iPhone has limited storage capabilities, so Apple must deliver a method for protecting that limited space by enabling the user to select a date, and delete all email prior to that date off the handheld.
Deleting one email at a time is ridiculous.
You can say what you want, but more than a few large businesses are adopting the iPhone. In some cases, by the thousands.
Your concern is obviously not the concern of everyone.
Can't you do that now with Exchange or IMAP-based mail?
I know a couple people working for large corps. that are moving to the iPhone. One is letting the user decide and the other is making the move completely per department as they are also making native corporate apps to go with the iPhone. Pretty damn impressive for a device under 2 years old and an SDK only a year old.
Some major companies started adopting them even with the OS ver 1.0.
It's interesting that people can't seem to read, or they would see that some of these companies are named, and are adopting them at high rates.
Whatever they may think, that makes what they say wrong for many others. They may have a concern that don't know enough about to do anything that can alleviate that concern, but there are obviously other people in IT who are knowledgeable enough to know how to deal with it.
Some major companies started adopting them even with the OS ver 1.0.
It's interesting that people can't seem to read, or they would see that some of these companies are named, and are adopting them at high rates.
Whatever they may think, that makes what they say wrong for many others. They may have a concern that don't know enough about to do anything that can alleviate that concern, but there are obviously other people in IT who are knowledgeable enough to know how to deal with it.
It's my belief that RiM will have a very tough time come the end of this year. I know they are selling more units, which I feel is partly because Apple has made the smartphone more likable in general, but I think their business model of selling server-side HW to connect to a company's local Exchange server and the per user license fees are going to have to cut severely for them to stay competitive.
Their method was great when they introduced it, and from what I can tell it still uses less power on the handset to maintain the Push connection than the iPhone and other handsets use for email, But that benefit is so minor with so many years of evolving phone tech that they are outdated and overpriced.
I think they will sell more units next year, but the areas that they make their money will kill their quarterly earnings.
You can say what you want, but more than a few large businesses are adopting the iPhone. In some cases, by the thousands.
Your concern is obviously not the concern of everyone.
I can say what I want? Wow, so gracious.
Look, there were almost 140 million smartphones sold in 2008, and Apple had about a 10-11% market share.
So, maybe 90% of smartphone users agree with me.
It's a simple function to implement, would make lots of sense, would help out the thousands of businesses you've somehow identified... do you really want to debate something so illogical? Let's just make it a better platform instead.
I can say what I want? Wow, so gracious.
Look, there were almost 140 million smartphones sold in 2008, and Apple had about a 10-11% market share.
So, maybe 90% of smartphone users agree with me.
It's a simple function to implement, would make lots of sense, would help out the thousands of businesses you've somehow identified... do you really want to debate something so illogical? Let's just make it a better platform instead.
Settings>General>Erase all content and settings.
Plug into iTunes > restore does the same thing BUT as you left all your emails on the server the legal requirements are fulfilled.
I can say what I want? Wow, so gracious.
Look, there were almost 140 million smartphones sold in 2008, and Apple had about a 10-11% market share.
So, maybe 90% of smartphone users agree with me.
It's a simple function to implement, would make lots of sense, would help out the thousands of businesses you've somehow identified... do you really want to debate something so illogical? Let's just make it a better platform instead.
Maybe not. Most smartphones aren't sold to business. You're only talking about that.
Besides, the iPhone is still fairly new. Business users seem to think it's much better than the Blackberry according to more than one survey. More reliable too.
The 3.0 software will help even more.
Settings>General>Erase all content and settings.
Plug into iTunes > restore does the same thing BUT as you left all your emails on the server the legal requirements are fulfilled.
I know matt_s is going to state that your solution isn't ideal, and he's right, but it's a solution to freeing up 5GB. But wouldn't be better to delete the mail account and then re-add it, so you get to keep all your iPhone settings?