Remember the post where it was said that Nokia sold 13 million 5800's, and I said that something was fishy with that number? Well, it was fishy. They sold 3 million, not 13 million. I don't know where that incorrect number came from, but wherever it was, I wouldn't ever use them for information again if I was that person.
Fact is, Nokia is in trouble. I remember when Motorola was the biggest cell phone maker. At the time, no one thought they would ever get in trouble either. But look what's happened to them. It's beginning to happen to Nokia as well. They can still get out of it, but will they?
As far as I understand, 3 MUnits were sold in Q4 of 2008. 13 MUnits have been sold by April 2009, i.e. Q4 2008 + Q1 2009.
Fact is, Nokia is in trouble. I remember when Motorola was the biggest cell phone maker. At the time, no one thought they would ever get in trouble either. But look what's happened to them. It's beginning to happen to Nokia as well. They can still get out of it, but will they?
Momentum depends on the loyalty of your customer base. Does Nokia has a hard core user base in Europe? Outside of that things can go down really quickly and it can be extremely difficult to come back.
Momentum depends on the loyalty of your customer base. Does Nokia has a hard core user base in Europe? Outside of that things can go down really quickly and it can be extremely difficult to come back.
What can I say? I can't see any complaints about loyalty of their customers in Europe... 5800 didn't have any issues here and seems selling (there are mates which bought it recently)...
But isn't the larger issue the product mix? It's very clear that we are now rapidly moving to the era of the ubiquitous mobile computer. The days of the cheap/free cell phone are numbered. In a year or two the current iPhone will be the cheap/free phone, sold with a cheap data plan. "Just a phone" phones will be as desirable as laptops that can do nothing but email.
So it looks to me like Nokia may be hanging in there due to its enormous installed user base of cheap/free phones, but their smart phone business is in absolute free fall.
Got an officiall respond from Nokia Noth America: .. ... .in-correct info due to a Nokia spokesperson that mis-spoke at a conference?thought you might appreciate a link to the corrected info."
Looks like they can put the cork back in the bottle
Remember the post where it was said that Nokia sold 13 million 5800's, and I said that something was fishy with that number? Well, it was fishy. They sold 3 million, not 13 million. I don't know where that incorrect number came from...
Got an officiall respond from Nokia Noth America: .. ... .in-correct info due to a Nokia spokesperson that mis-spoke at a conference—thought you might appreciate a link to the corrected info."
Looks like they can put the cork back in the bottle
Holy shit, does being a "Symbian Freak" drive you mad? That website is like sticking a screwdriver in your eye.
I can't even exactly tell what's happening, in that it first throws a big party, then confusingly alludes to an update that kills the party, mentions a link to the actual numbers which isn't included, wanders into a Nokia press release praising the 5800 in general terms, then finishes things off with a little more partying.
In the world of fanboi's, I think you'll find that the Nokia variety is particularly rabid, their foray's into this part of the world have been fairly mild in comparison to some other forums.
"Nokia 4 lyfe" being one of their common catchphrases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Holy shit, does being a "Symbian Freak" drive you mad? That website is like sticking a screwdriver in your eye.
I can't even exactly tell what's happening, in that it first throws a big party, then confusingly alludes to an update that kills the party, mentions a link to the actual numbers which isn't included, wanders into a Nokia press release praising the 5800 in general terms, then finishes things off with a little more partying.
But isn't the larger issue the product mix? It's very clear that we are now rapidly moving to the era of the ubiquitous mobile computer. The days of the cheap/free cell phone are numbered. In a year or two the current iPhone will be the cheap/free phone, sold with a cheap data plan. "Just a phone" phones will be as desirable as laptops that can do nothing but email.
So it looks to me like Nokia may be hanging in there due to its enormous installed user base of cheap/free phones, but their smart phone business is in absolute free fall.
Even medium term, that pretty disastrous.
I might check the trendlines a bit more carefully.
Like most bad economic climates, those who cannot purchase stop and those who are not effected continue to purchase as they always would. When you look at carrier growth and cell growth you see some differences. Smart phone sales are still growing but the quickest growing plans for cell providers are pre-paid plans. (Sorry I had the link a week or so ago)
So it appear there is a split when the contract is coming due. Those in a good position are moving up to smart phones and those who aren't in a good position are delaying phone purchases and moving down to a pre-paid plan to save money.
One thing worth considering is that if Nokia has a bad year based on the current economy, all the others to include Apple will suffer to some extent. People are not simply going to say: "Oh, I do not have as much money, I better go buy an iPhone instead of that Nokia I always wanted". The same people that would buy Nokia's no matter what are no different than the iPhone purchasers. Nokia will lose market share until they release their new phones which people are waiting to buy. Not to mention that they shipped 13 Million 5800XM's and the new E75 is sold out in most places with the N97 highly anticipated. The market will ebb and flow but in the end Nokia, because of shear size and current market situation will still stay on top, just not as much as before.
By the way, Symbian can run on Atom processors. So this should prove interesting in the near future.
One thing worth considering is that if Nokia has a bad year based on the current economy, all the others to include Apple will suffer to some extent. People are not simply going to say: "Oh, I do not have as much money, I better go buy an iPhone instead of that Nokia I always wanted". The same people that would buy Nokia's no matter what are no different than the iPhone purchasers. Nokia will lose market share until they release their new phones which people are waiting to buy. Not to mention that they shipped 13 Million 5800XM's and the new E75 is sold out in most places with the N97 highly anticipated. The market will ebb and flow but in the end Nokia, because of shear size and current market situation will still stay on top, just not as much as before.
By the way, Symbian can run on Atom processors. So this should prove interesting in the near future.
Wait, are you still on the 13 million 5800s thing? I thought this had been settled-- 3M 5800s, 13M 5310s.
Also, and again, isn't the "highly anticipated" N97 exactly the same kind of phone that Nokia has been shipping during this disastrous decline in profits and smart phone market share? How do you figure it's going to bolster their fortunes? Because it has a higher res camera or more ram or another button? That's called an "upgrade", and it's not generally the kind of thing that turns around a company's fortunes, is it?
That's why RIM brought out entirely new phones with a different focus, why Palm is abandoning all that came before to do the Pre, why Android was build from scratch and why Apple has been so successful: new world, new paradigm, new handsets. Nokia's bolting on more features.
I mean, you can't count them out, they're huge, but it really doesn't look like a winning strategy, now that the playing field has changed so much.
Wait, are you still on the 13 million 5800s thing? I thought this had been settled-- 3M 5800s, 13M 5310s.
Also, and again, isn't the "highly anticipated" N97 exactly the same kind of phone that Nokia has been shipping during this disastrous decline in profits and smart phone market share? How do you figure it's going to bolster their fortunes? Because it has a higher res camera or more ram or another button? That's called an "upgrade", and it's not generally the kind of thing that turns around a company's fortunes, is it?
That's why RIM brought out entirely new phones with a different focus, why Palm is abandoning all that came before to do the Pre, why Android was build from scratch and why Apple has been so successful: new world, new paradigm, new handsets. Nokia's bolting on more features.
I mean, you can't count them out, they're huge, but it really doesn't look like a winning strategy, now that the playing field has changed so much.
I do not recall mentioning 13 million 5800XM thing. From my understanding, they shipped 13 million, not sold 13 million, but if you say so, so be it. I don't remember mentioning it here.
Anyway the N97 if anything is similar but not quite the same thus the "N" designation. I guess you could see it the same as I see an iPhone as nothing more than an iPod with phone (not a very good phone at that but still a phone none the less.) Supposedly the N97 is the new direction where Nokia is making the phone into the computer or net device which is a departure from their previous offerings. You are a clablactozillion % correct in that they need a different direction from just the old "this is a phone" paradigm. People want more and brand loyalties are not as rock solid as they maybe once were. I am only loyal in my computers in that I will only use a Mac but for me the iPhone is no more special than my E71, or N85. They are tools to have and discard, and luckily in this climate I can afford to pick and choose where to spend my money.
I do not recall mentioning 13 million 5800XM thing. From my understanding, they shipped 13 million, not sold 13 million, but if you say so, so be it. I don't remember mentioning it here.
Um, in the post I was responding to?
If they've shipped 13M but only sold 3M, that is one hell of a channel stuff.
Quote:
Anyway the N97 if anything is similar but not quite the same thus the "N" designation. I guess you could see it the same as I see an iPhone as nothing more than an iPod with phone (not a very good phone at that but still a phone none the less.) Supposedly the N97 is the new direction where Nokia is making the phone into the computer or net device which is a departure from their previous offerings. You are a clablactozillion % correct in that they need a different direction from just the old "this is a phone" paradigm. People want more and brand loyalties are not as rock solid as they maybe once were. I am only loyal in my computers in that I will only use a Mac but for me the iPhone is no more special than my E71, or N85. They are tools to have and discard, and luckily in this climate I can afford to pick and choose where to spend my money.
I didn't know that about the N97, I'll be interested in seeing how it pans out. Do you have a link to where I could get some more info?
I do not recall mentioning 13 million 5800XM thing. From my understanding, they shipped 13 million, not sold 13 million, but if you say so, so be it. I don't remember mentioning it here.
If you look back a few posts you'll see the 13 million figure came from a misheard remark regarding the 5310, you can go see the retraction at Symbian World if you like, there's a link here somewhere, you can admire the Nokia fans exquisite taste in Web design while you're at it.
What's the N97 got that the N95 didn't have?
A qwerty physical keyboard instead of a number pad, more memory and a touchscreen.
That about covers it, Nokia are stagnating and they know it.
What will be interesting to see is if more than 3 million iPhone's have been sold since November.
If they've shipped 13M but only sold 3M, that is one hell of a channel stuff.
I didn't know that about the N97, I'll be interested in seeing how it pans out. Do you have a link to where I could get some more info?
Here you go. It is late here in the land of 1000 lakes so if you post something please excuse that I do not respond right away. You can start with this:
Comments
Year to year it's down.
Remember the post where it was said that Nokia sold 13 million 5800's, and I said that something was fishy with that number? Well, it was fishy. They sold 3 million, not 13 million. I don't know where that incorrect number came from, but wherever it was, I wouldn't ever use them for information again if I was that person.
This article expands on the one from Yahoo:
http://www.electronista.com/articles....2009.results/
Fact is, Nokia is in trouble. I remember when Motorola was the biggest cell phone maker. At the time, no one thought they would ever get in trouble either. But look what's happened to them. It's beginning to happen to Nokia as well. They can still get out of it, but will they?
As far as I understand, 3 MUnits were sold in Q4 of 2008. 13 MUnits have been sold by April 2009, i.e. Q4 2008 + Q1 2009.
Fact is, Nokia is in trouble. I remember when Motorola was the biggest cell phone maker. At the time, no one thought they would ever get in trouble either. But look what's happened to them. It's beginning to happen to Nokia as well. They can still get out of it, but will they?
OK, let's say I believe in their momentum.
OK, let's say I believe in their momentum.
Momentum depends on the loyalty of your customer base. Does Nokia has a hard core user base in Europe? Outside of that things can go down really quickly and it can be extremely difficult to come back.
What can I say? I can't see any complaints about loyalty of their customers in Europe... 5800 didn't have any issues here and seems selling (there are mates which bought it recently)...
So it looks to me like Nokia may be hanging in there due to its enormous installed user base of cheap/free phones, but their smart phone business is in absolute free fall.
Even medium term, that pretty disastrous.
LOL, 13M 5310s has been shipped so far :]
but Nokia Rob has mistakenly stated it is 5800 :]
10X 2 BGR for the heads up by the way!
UPDATE 2:
Got an officiall respond from Nokia Noth America: .. ... .in-correct info due to a Nokia spokesperson that mis-spoke at a conference?thought you might appreciate a link to the corrected info."
Looks like they can put the cork back in the bottle
Source:-
http://symbian-freak.com/news/009/04...lion_units.htm
Remember the post where it was said that Nokia sold 13 million 5800's, and I said that something was fishy with that number? Well, it was fishy. They sold 3 million, not 13 million. I don't know where that incorrect number came from...
"UPDATE:
LOL, 13M 5310s has been shipped so far :]
but Nokia Rob has mistakenly stated it is 5800 :]
10X 2 BGR for the heads up by the way!
UPDATE 2:
Got an officiall respond from Nokia Noth America: .. ... .in-correct info due to a Nokia spokesperson that mis-spoke at a conference—thought you might appreciate a link to the corrected info."
Looks like they can put the cork back in the bottle
Source:-
http://symbian-freak.com/news/009/04...lion_units.htm
Holy shit, does being a "Symbian Freak" drive you mad? That website is like sticking a screwdriver in your eye.
I can't even exactly tell what's happening, in that it first throws a big party, then confusingly alludes to an update that kills the party, mentions a link to the actual numbers which isn't included, wanders into a Nokia press release praising the 5800 in general terms, then finishes things off with a little more partying.
Is "Symbian" a euphemism for "meth amphetamine"?
"Nokia 4 lyfe" being one of their common catchphrases.
Holy shit, does being a "Symbian Freak" drive you mad? That website is like sticking a screwdriver in your eye.
I can't even exactly tell what's happening, in that it first throws a big party, then confusingly alludes to an update that kills the party, mentions a link to the actual numbers which isn't included, wanders into a Nokia press release praising the 5800 in general terms, then finishes things off with a little more partying.
Is "Symbian" a euphemism for "meth amphetamine"?
But isn't the larger issue the product mix? It's very clear that we are now rapidly moving to the era of the ubiquitous mobile computer. The days of the cheap/free cell phone are numbered. In a year or two the current iPhone will be the cheap/free phone, sold with a cheap data plan. "Just a phone" phones will be as desirable as laptops that can do nothing but email.
So it looks to me like Nokia may be hanging in there due to its enormous installed user base of cheap/free phones, but their smart phone business is in absolute free fall.
Even medium term, that pretty disastrous.
I might check the trendlines a bit more carefully.
Like most bad economic climates, those who cannot purchase stop and those who are not effected continue to purchase as they always would. When you look at carrier growth and cell growth you see some differences. Smart phone sales are still growing but the quickest growing plans for cell providers are pre-paid plans. (Sorry I had the link a week or so ago)
So it appear there is a split when the contract is coming due. Those in a good position are moving up to smart phones and those who aren't in a good position are delaying phone purchases and moving down to a pre-paid plan to save money.
Just some thoughts...
As far as I understand, 3 MUnits were sold in Q4 of 2008. 13 MUnits have been sold by April 2009, i.e. Q4 2008 + Q1 2009.
No. It's quite clear. They sold 3 million.
Give it up.
Look at the total number of smartphones they sold, even you will see that 13 million is impossible.
OK, let's say I believe in their momentum.
I do to. It's on the way down the hill, where momentum builds up quickly.
You better hope they have a brake, otherwise their increasing momentum will lead them to crash.
I do to. It's on the way down the hill, where momentum builds up quickly.
Hits the nail on the head.
Hits the nail on the head.
One thing worth considering is that if Nokia has a bad year based on the current economy, all the others to include Apple will suffer to some extent. People are not simply going to say: "Oh, I do not have as much money, I better go buy an iPhone instead of that Nokia I always wanted". The same people that would buy Nokia's no matter what are no different than the iPhone purchasers. Nokia will lose market share until they release their new phones which people are waiting to buy. Not to mention that they shipped 13 Million 5800XM's and the new E75 is sold out in most places with the N97 highly anticipated. The market will ebb and flow but in the end Nokia, because of shear size and current market situation will still stay on top, just not as much as before.
By the way, Symbian can run on Atom processors. So this should prove interesting in the near future.
One thing worth considering is that if Nokia has a bad year based on the current economy, all the others to include Apple will suffer to some extent. People are not simply going to say: "Oh, I do not have as much money, I better go buy an iPhone instead of that Nokia I always wanted". The same people that would buy Nokia's no matter what are no different than the iPhone purchasers. Nokia will lose market share until they release their new phones which people are waiting to buy. Not to mention that they shipped 13 Million 5800XM's and the new E75 is sold out in most places with the N97 highly anticipated. The market will ebb and flow but in the end Nokia, because of shear size and current market situation will still stay on top, just not as much as before.
By the way, Symbian can run on Atom processors. So this should prove interesting in the near future.
Wait, are you still on the 13 million 5800s thing? I thought this had been settled-- 3M 5800s, 13M 5310s.
Also, and again, isn't the "highly anticipated" N97 exactly the same kind of phone that Nokia has been shipping during this disastrous decline in profits and smart phone market share? How do you figure it's going to bolster their fortunes? Because it has a higher res camera or more ram or another button? That's called an "upgrade", and it's not generally the kind of thing that turns around a company's fortunes, is it?
That's why RIM brought out entirely new phones with a different focus, why Palm is abandoning all that came before to do the Pre, why Android was build from scratch and why Apple has been so successful: new world, new paradigm, new handsets. Nokia's bolting on more features.
I mean, you can't count them out, they're huge, but it really doesn't look like a winning strategy, now that the playing field has changed so much.
Wait, are you still on the 13 million 5800s thing? I thought this had been settled-- 3M 5800s, 13M 5310s.
Also, and again, isn't the "highly anticipated" N97 exactly the same kind of phone that Nokia has been shipping during this disastrous decline in profits and smart phone market share? How do you figure it's going to bolster their fortunes? Because it has a higher res camera or more ram or another button? That's called an "upgrade", and it's not generally the kind of thing that turns around a company's fortunes, is it?
That's why RIM brought out entirely new phones with a different focus, why Palm is abandoning all that came before to do the Pre, why Android was build from scratch and why Apple has been so successful: new world, new paradigm, new handsets. Nokia's bolting on more features.
I mean, you can't count them out, they're huge, but it really doesn't look like a winning strategy, now that the playing field has changed so much.
I do not recall mentioning 13 million 5800XM thing. From my understanding, they shipped 13 million, not sold 13 million, but if you say so, so be it. I don't remember mentioning it here.
Anyway the N97 if anything is similar but not quite the same thus the "N" designation. I guess you could see it the same as I see an iPhone as nothing more than an iPod with phone (not a very good phone at that but still a phone none the less.) Supposedly the N97 is the new direction where Nokia is making the phone into the computer or net device which is a departure from their previous offerings. You are a clablactozillion % correct in that they need a different direction from just the old "this is a phone" paradigm. People want more and brand loyalties are not as rock solid as they maybe once were. I am only loyal in my computers in that I will only use a Mac but for me the iPhone is no more special than my E71, or N85. They are tools to have and discard, and luckily in this climate I can afford to pick and choose where to spend my money.
I do not recall mentioning 13 million 5800XM thing. From my understanding, they shipped 13 million, not sold 13 million, but if you say so, so be it. I don't remember mentioning it here.
Um, in the post I was responding to?
If they've shipped 13M but only sold 3M, that is one hell of a channel stuff.
Anyway the N97 if anything is similar but not quite the same thus the "N" designation. I guess you could see it the same as I see an iPhone as nothing more than an iPod with phone (not a very good phone at that but still a phone none the less.) Supposedly the N97 is the new direction where Nokia is making the phone into the computer or net device which is a departure from their previous offerings. You are a clablactozillion % correct in that they need a different direction from just the old "this is a phone" paradigm. People want more and brand loyalties are not as rock solid as they maybe once were. I am only loyal in my computers in that I will only use a Mac but for me the iPhone is no more special than my E71, or N85. They are tools to have and discard, and luckily in this climate I can afford to pick and choose where to spend my money.
I didn't know that about the N97, I'll be interested in seeing how it pans out. Do you have a link to where I could get some more info?
I do not recall mentioning 13 million 5800XM thing. From my understanding, they shipped 13 million, not sold 13 million, but if you say so, so be it. I don't remember mentioning it here.
If you look back a few posts you'll see the 13 million figure came from a misheard remark regarding the 5310, you can go see the retraction at Symbian World if you like, there's a link here somewhere, you can admire the Nokia fans exquisite taste in Web design while you're at it.
What's the N97 got that the N95 didn't have?
A qwerty physical keyboard instead of a number pad, more memory and a touchscreen.
That about covers it, Nokia are stagnating and they know it.
What will be interesting to see is if more than 3 million iPhone's have been sold since November.
Um, in the post I was responding to?
If they've shipped 13M but only sold 3M, that is one hell of a channel stuff.
I didn't know that about the N97, I'll be interested in seeing how it pans out. Do you have a link to where I could get some more info?
Here you go. It is late here in the land of 1000 lakes so if you post something please excuse that I do not respond right away. You can start with this:
http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N97
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O2Li74EYew (I think the music is dumb but whatever)
http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/n...hip-n97-phone/
Cheerio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O2Li74EYew
It better work exactly like that or I'm going to start a class action
It better work exactly like that or I'm going to start a class action
Heh. Thought the same thing.