I am actually more interested in the other future devices that will use WebOS. I hope the Pre is successful.
Perhaps then Apple will be forced to come out with a better product. I know Apple has something better but they are delaying their release of it because of their stubborness. And I'm not referring to new hardware either. I'm talking about the Apple mobile OS and its refusal to become a full multi-tasker.
Hey something else occurred to me that I'd like people's take on: With the iphone, when you invest in a ton of apps, you're locked in pretty much so you can't go to a different phone and bring your apps. Since Palm developed an OS that will be used in many different phones in the future, you should be able to switch to a different model and bring your apps, correct? They've already announced another phone that will run the webOS, I'm sure there will be more to come.
Hey that's a plus isn't it?
The only phones we know that will run the WebOS are Palm's phones. no other deal has been announced, and Palm didn't, as far as I know, say that they will license the OS to anyone else.
I'm not saying that having no replaceable battery is the best thing always, though it does offer advantages as well. But you were talking about "crying out" for one.
That's a heck of a bit different than a mention that it doesn't have one, and that it might make a difference for some people.
And the iPhone gets, by far, the best satisfaction numbers even without that replaceable battery. Most people don't need it at all. And there are other ways of getting a field recharge if needed.
I think the fact is that the vast majority of people don't need a user replaceable battery. So as a compromise Apple can design lighter slimmer products with less complexity. Good for users(most) and good for them from a manufacturing perspective.
I would complain about the cost of having the battery replaced but you are really only paying about $10 extra for Apple to install it.
If Apple comes out with new phones this summer, as expected, with double the memory for the same money, both Palm and Sprint will have a major problem.
Bingo. And, new software too. They'll just get iPodded like PMP-makers did. I'll bet Apple already has this figured out as a part of their hardware/software strategy for the year.
On top of that, Pre had also better make sure that they have no major IP violations: Apple has promised to pursue that end of things aggressively.
The only phones we know that will run the WebOS are Palm's phones. no other deal has been announced, and Palm didn't, as far as I know, say that they will license the OS to anyone else.
Do you have information otherwise?
Hmm, I guess I'm misinformed. I must have read it as hearsay along the lines and remembered it as fact.
To be a successful iPhone killer, the Pre needs either to be superior phone by a big margin or deliver more or less the same but at much lower price. None is true. My prediction: the Pre will not affect the iPhone sales in a measurable way. The best Palm can hope for is to save the company, but that's going to be a challenge.
Indeed. The last point is possible, and I hope they do it.
That's a very ill-informed, and pointless, statement. The first cellphone cost thousands of dollars. But you wouldn't price it at that if you were introducing a competitive product today.
Red Koolaid or orange today? But then you probably shelled out the $600 2 years ago too and never blinked twice.
If Apple comes out with new phones this summer, as expected, with double the memory for the same money, both Palm and Sprint will have a major problem.
HOw is that?
What CDMA peple who are happy with their service would want to switch to AT&T's lousy 3G network-Yechh!
The fanboyz have already switched - lightning will be very hard to strike 3 times. Many of the sales will be renewals only.
Red Koolaid or orange today? But then you probably shelled out the $600 2 years ago too and never blinked twice.
He makes a valid point. Palm can't come to market today with a $600 Pre and expect it to sell. IF they had come out with it two years ago before the iPhone? Maybe.
People wouldn't pay $600 for an iPhone today because they know they don't have to pay that much. Comparing this to two years ago just doesn't make sense because market conditions have changed.
This cost for the 1st gen Pre seems reasonable to me considering all of Palm R&D costs , etc.
That's not the problem. Apple was releasing into a vacuum, a market dominated by utterly useless "smart" phones that were difficult to use, had absolutely useless browsers and didn't sync up anything you actually wanted. Don't get me wrong, the BB is a superb business tool (better than the iPhone even today) but there wasn't a single consumer smart phone out there worth buying. Period.
That is no longer true. Apple has wrapped up the majority of the brain-space (forget sales, people talk about everything in relation to the iPhone) and they've set the bar for others to meet. Lets not forget that a year ago everyone was talking about how this new open web-based development environment combined with a real keyboard and better camera was going to kick the iPhone's butt. Pre? No, G1.
The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.
He makes a valid point. Palm can't come to market today with a $600 Pre and expect it to sell. IF they had come out with it two years ago before the iPhone? Maybe.
People wouldn't pay $600 for an iPhone today because they know they don't have to pay that much. Comparing this to two years ago just doesn't make sense because market conditions have changed.
My point is that a $200 Pre after rebate is not a bad deal, in fact it's excellent, for a brand new phone with this technology. The iPhone when originally introduced was overpriced- plain and simple. Hence the $200 reduction 2 months later with a $100 rebate for Apple products only. I know it brings up old wounds but that original pricing was BULL$HIT and indefensible.
Red Koolaid or orange today? But then you probably shelled out the $600 2 years ago too and never blinked twice.
No I did not. (Blinked twice, I mean). And, had positive consumer surplus, on top of a substantially enriched stock portfolio from my Apple stock (resulting from the market impact of iPhone's introduction).
"am curious how this works. So what, if product X offers a rebate, Best Buy simply pays you it up front?
If so, my guess is that this won't be coming to Best Buy any time soon, unless they have an air-tight deal worked out with Sprint. I know that I, for one, would not be terribly interested in paying out more than my profits in an up-front rebate and then waiting for a 3rd party to pay be back some time in the future. I like the cash in MY bank account, thank you."
Best Buy has always done that. Best Buy pays the vendor (Sprint) the 300. You pay 200 and Sprint will return the 100 to best buy. It is how they always have done it. In november when they stared this they had a 2.4 percent market share in phones, now they have a 8.6. It's a good deal!
Comments
Perhaps then Apple will be forced to come out with a better product. I know Apple has something better but they are delaying their release of it because of their stubborness. And I'm not referring to new hardware either. I'm talking about the Apple mobile OS and its refusal to become a full multi-tasker.
But, lets see what happens in June.
Hey something else occurred to me that I'd like people's take on: With the iphone, when you invest in a ton of apps, you're locked in pretty much so you can't go to a different phone and bring your apps. Since Palm developed an OS that will be used in many different phones in the future, you should be able to switch to a different model and bring your apps, correct? They've already announced another phone that will run the webOS, I'm sure there will be more to come.
Hey that's a plus isn't it?
The only phones we know that will run the WebOS are Palm's phones. no other deal has been announced, and Palm didn't, as far as I know, say that they will license the OS to anyone else.
Do you have information otherwise?
I'm not saying that having no replaceable battery is the best thing always, though it does offer advantages as well. But you were talking about "crying out" for one.
That's a heck of a bit different than a mention that it doesn't have one, and that it might make a difference for some people.
And the iPhone gets, by far, the best satisfaction numbers even without that replaceable battery. Most people don't need it at all. And there are other ways of getting a field recharge if needed.
I think the fact is that the vast majority of people don't need a user replaceable battery. So as a compromise Apple can design lighter slimmer products with less complexity. Good for users(most) and good for them from a manufacturing perspective.
I would complain about the cost of having the battery replaced but you are really only paying about $10 extra for Apple to install it.
If Apple comes out with new phones this summer, as expected, with double the memory for the same money, both Palm and Sprint will have a major problem.
Bingo. And, new software too. They'll just get iPodded like PMP-makers did. I'll bet Apple already has this figured out as a part of their hardware/software strategy for the year.
On top of that, Pre had also better make sure that they have no major IP violations: Apple has promised to pursue that end of things aggressively.
I'm talking about 3G as well. It wasn't so hot.
It's amusing that 3G here in Toronto absolutely rocks. I have to drive a LONG way before I drop to Edge, and I get solid speed throughout.
Did you mean to reply to yourself?
Very funny Sol, I'm sure you're quick enough to understand the comments. Or at least I used to.
And Apple fixed that problem.
What does that have to do with what is happening NOW?
YOU tell me!
ASK those bitching about Pre's $199 cost after rebate- not me.
This cost for the 1st gen Pre seems reasonable to me considering all of Palm R&D costs , etc.
The only phones we know that will run the WebOS are Palm's phones. no other deal has been announced, and Palm didn't, as far as I know, say that they will license the OS to anyone else.
Do you have information otherwise?
Hmm, I guess I'm misinformed. I must have read it as hearsay along the lines and remembered it as fact.
To be a successful iPhone killer, the Pre needs either to be superior phone by a big margin or deliver more or less the same but at much lower price. None is true. My prediction: the Pre will not affect the iPhone sales in a measurable way. The best Palm can hope for is to save the company, but that's going to be a challenge.
Indeed. The last point is possible, and I hope they do it.
Maury
That's a very ill-informed, and pointless, statement. The first cellphone cost thousands of dollars. But you wouldn't price it at that if you were introducing a competitive product today.
Red Koolaid or orange today? But then you probably shelled out the $600 2 years ago too and never blinked twice.
I
If Apple comes out with new phones this summer, as expected, with double the memory for the same money, both Palm and Sprint will have a major problem.
HOw is that?
What CDMA peple who are happy with their service would want to switch to AT&T's lousy 3G network-Yechh!
The fanboyz have already switched - lightning will be very hard to strike 3 times. Many of the sales will be renewals only.
Red Koolaid or orange today? But then you probably shelled out the $600 2 years ago too and never blinked twice.
He makes a valid point. Palm can't come to market today with a $600 Pre and expect it to sell. IF they had come out with it two years ago before the iPhone? Maybe.
People wouldn't pay $600 for an iPhone today because they know they don't have to pay that much. Comparing this to two years ago just doesn't make sense because market conditions have changed.
This cost for the 1st gen Pre seems reasonable to me considering all of Palm R&D costs , etc.
That's not the problem. Apple was releasing into a vacuum, a market dominated by utterly useless "smart" phones that were difficult to use, had absolutely useless browsers and didn't sync up anything you actually wanted. Don't get me wrong, the BB is a superb business tool (better than the iPhone even today) but there wasn't a single consumer smart phone out there worth buying. Period.
That is no longer true. Apple has wrapped up the majority of the brain-space (forget sales, people talk about everything in relation to the iPhone) and they've set the bar for others to meet. Lets not forget that a year ago everyone was talking about how this new open web-based development environment combined with a real keyboard and better camera was going to kick the iPhone's butt. Pre? No, G1.
The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.
Maury
He makes a valid point. Palm can't come to market today with a $600 Pre and expect it to sell. IF they had come out with it two years ago before the iPhone? Maybe.
People wouldn't pay $600 for an iPhone today because they know they don't have to pay that much. Comparing this to two years ago just doesn't make sense because market conditions have changed.
My point is that a $200 Pre after rebate is not a bad deal, in fact it's excellent, for a brand new phone with this technology. The iPhone when originally introduced was overpriced- plain and simple. Hence the $200 reduction 2 months later with a $100 rebate for Apple products only. I know it brings up old wounds but that original pricing was BULL$HIT and indefensible.
Really? What will the new iphone have that will "change the game"?
That's why I'd wait the two days and find out for sure...
Or you can just buy the Pre and return it if iPhone 2009 changes the game.
This cost for the 1st gen Pre seems reasonable to me considering all of Palm R&D costs , etc.
what R&D costs are you talking about? Paying for iPhone engineers to jump ship to Palm?
Red Koolaid or orange today? But then you probably shelled out the $600 2 years ago too and never blinked twice.
No I did not. (Blinked twice, I mean). And, had positive consumer surplus, on top of a substantially enriched stock portfolio from my Apple stock (resulting from the market impact of iPhone's introduction).
Doesn't get better than that. So, go stew in it.
I thought the Palm was multi-touch. Is it not?
If so, my guess is that this won't be coming to Best Buy any time soon, unless they have an air-tight deal worked out with Sprint. I know that I, for one, would not be terribly interested in paying out more than my profits in an up-front rebate and then waiting for a 3rd party to pay be back some time in the future. I like the cash in MY bank account, thank you."
Best Buy has always done that. Best Buy pays the vendor (Sprint) the 300. You pay 200 and Sprint will return the 100 to best buy. It is how they always have done it. In november when they stared this they had a 2.4 percent market share in phones, now they have a 8.6. It's a good deal!
But...iPhone still wins. (at least for me)