I work in the wireless industry and I try to stay as neutral as possible when it comes to mobile phones, but i believe that the palm pre is palms last ditch effort to try and make a profit. I lost a lot of confidence in palm ever since they launched the palm centro which has been nothing but a problem. I have an iphone myself and there has been word that version 3.0 will have the ability to run applications in the background on the iphone. Thats just the word I got. After reading about the pre I have yet to see anything special about it that will compete with the iphone. Look at what happened with the supposed iphone killer (blackberry storm) the storm did not have the effect on the iphone as a lot of people thought it would. I think the pre will sell to hardcore sprint customers, but I dont think that people will go running to sprint to get it, and with the launch of 3.0 coming out with the iphone and a new model coming out, the pre will fall on deaf ears. sorry palm\
And to everyone who's bringing up the existence of the app store as a reason not to get a pre, just answer me one thing: What if Apple decided that they were going to give up because they had to compete with the popularity of Windows? Apple once was (and still is in some regards) the underdog that fought past the naysayers. Why wouldn't you relate to Palm in the same regard?
Yes, Palm is just as beleaguered today as Apple was in 1996-1998. I bought a G3 PowerMac in 1998 (though using only my soon-to-expire Apple Citicard reward points so it was really free - Citicard was another thing that Jobs killed), so that would be like buying a Pre today. So why did I buy?
Did I mention the reward points? Seriously, I felt OS8 was competitive with Windows (and better in the AV stuff I was doing); and Hypercard was neat. And I had confidence that Jobs could bring Apple back, and bring developers back.
Is Pre competitive with iPhone? It's the best competitive device thus far.
Is there something in the Pre that I'd really want? No; multitasking, physical keyboard, replaceable battery, and Synergy are nice-to-have but nothing incredible. And I'd be giving up some current apps for 3-to-4 months; and the iPhone 3.0 apps/ecosystem is way ahead of where Palm is today.
Do I have more confidence in Palm or Apple to extend its utility (including 3rd parties) in the next 2 years? Palm has shown some innovation with Synergy, but Apple is the "founder" of the small-screen multi-touch paradigm. Palm app development just got started but the developer buzz is muted compared to that for iPhone 3.0 app development. And finally, I have more confidence in an Apple/Jobs/Cook vision, then in one from Apple castoff Rubinstein (who argued that iPod shouldn't become a phone).
Just to add, I live in Mississauga and it's just fine here. Downtown Toronto is great. Outlying areas too.
Interestingly enough, it's also pretty strong in the Huntsville/Port Sydney area up North, and I'm talking way deep in the woods here, on the snowmobile trails.
Yes and yes. It's not about carrying one around- where did you get that from? It's about you walking into a store and you replacing it, when and if you need it. And swapping batteries is common place for cameras- we do have them in NYC and sell batteries at JandR. Many of us buy them. Why buy a brick to hook on your iPhone when you could simply travel with a battery?
Have you ever been outside of an Apple store or Teckserve?
20 months... iPhone battery still lasts all day - no need to replace it.
And what's the difference when you're traveling whether you're carrying a "brick" or second battery in your bag?
Bashing? I didn't say it wasn't good/bad. My comment was based on the current status of both Palm and Sprint as companies. Both are doing poorly, so it wouldn't shock me to see this venture fail...
You're right - but there is a ton of bashing going on here for something not even released. Amazing -isn't it?
Totally different situation, totally different markets (Apple 1996 vs. Palm today), and completely different business phliosophies.
Palm isn't the "underdog." There's nothing heroic about them. They make phones, and are just another company struggling to remain relevant, same as Motorola. Palm devices were nice back in the day, but they were nothing special, and nothing on the level of what Apple was in the early days. Now THAT was heroic. THAT was something worth cheering for. They created the Macintosh and the OS that went along with it, which singlehandedly revolutionized the entire industry. It was an icon, something by which time is measured in the tech world. Nothing less. Microsoft and Bill G wnet absolutely batshit crazy because of it, and that seething, palpable jealousy (beyond just envy) of Apple is not only still characteristic of MS today, but is stronger than ever.
Palm made an iPhone knockoff with the help of ex-Apple engineers, with only a fraction of the potential of the iPhone (for now.) Released (or rather, allegedly to be released in June) two years after Apple shook everything up already.
If they achieve FAR MORE than what the iPhone has, then I'll be impressed. Don't forget that the iPhone almost overnight took the #1 smartphone spot in the US and #3 worldwide, and held it, and then forced everyone else to up their game. Not by accident or Nokia-like cheap sales, either. And most didn't do very well back then and still can't manage to compete. The Pre has to be far and away so much more than the iPhone to really matter. Otherwise, it's just another Blackberry-esque, Storm-type device that didn't live up to the hype. There are plenty of iPhone copycats out there that are far too obvious. Same with the iPod, really, You've got the iPod. Then you've got everything else.
Good luck getting developers, too. With the iPhone around that's an uphill battle as well. You have to have an app store, too. And its implemenation and robustness has to be impressive, to say the least. And let's hope the recession doesn't kill the Pre. Apple has already established a reputation for quality and innovation. Palm's reputation - whatever is might have been, has long since been forgotten and is today synonymous with galactic laziness. Well, for those that even remember Palm or know what Palm is today. They never were much in the branding department.
I'm not sure why people are getting so excited about the Pre. It has yet to prove itself in any capacity. We'll have to wait for the real hands-on reviews (from neutral sources), and our own hands-on experience, to know what to make of this product. Being a brand-new product from a failing company, with nowhere near the technical know-how and resources of Apple, I'm not expecting much from it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink
Oh GOD don't even get me started. Sprint has been some of the worst, and best experiences I've had. You know what I tell people thinking of switching to sprint? As long as you never have to deal with customer service, everything will be hunky dory! That's the truth. Dealing with customer service will enrage you beyond anything you've felt. Some people flat out hang up on you. It's painfully obvious Sprint cuts cost by hiring morons for tier 1 and 2 level customer support.
This is true... I was a Sprint customer for more than a decade. It is a fact that their network coverage is inferior to AT&T's and Verizon's, but I was happy enough with the phones I used. And then, after all those decades, I had to sort some problems out with customer service, and I saw a completely different side to Sprint. Never again. Everyone I know who once used Sprint eventually left for the same reason.
And really, who the hell wants to carry around batteries or other extra crap? Like you're lugging around ammo and scopes or something. What is this, Viet Nam???
Non-removable batteries is the name of the game. Just make them quickly chargeable and long-lasting. And at worst, replaceable by the manufacturer.
Oh, and third parties have already made plenty of extra batteries (attachable) and power packs for the iPhone. So, it's a non-issue, really. There are iPhone car chargers in abundance, too.
That's not the problem. Apple was releasing into a vacuum, a market dominated by utterly useless "smart" phones that were difficult to use, had absolutely useless browsers and didn't sync up anything you actually wanted. Don't get me wrong, the BB is a superb business tool (better than the iPhone even today) but there wasn't a single consumer smart phone out there worth buying. Period.
That is no longer true. Apple has wrapped up the majority of the brain-space (forget sales, people talk about everything in relation to the iPhone) and they've set the bar for others to meet. Lets not forget that a year ago everyone was talking about how this new open web-based development environment combined with a real keyboard and better camera was going to kick the iPhone's butt. Pre? No, G1.
The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.
Maury
When iphone came out, it was 600 dollars, but the argument is that's because of the market. Now the pre is coming out, for half as much, and people are saying this is so horrible. Lets take a look at that for a second and compare it to complaints about the iphone's lack of mms and copy and paste. What's the argument there? The argument is that the iphone is still "young" and other phones had these features because they had time to develop them. Well, HELLO? The Pre won't have a 200 dollar price point right out of the gate because it will take time to get there, just as it took TWO YEARS for the iphone to get to the most basic features of a "smart phone."
To say the Pre should start out with all the latest and greatest is to also say the iphone should have as well. To say that Apple's excuse for these artificial limitations is because of it's infancy is to say that the Pre can carry that excuse for the next two years as well.
I know I know, Palm was in the phone business long before Apple, right? Well instead of 2 years, lets see what Palm is capable of accomplishing with the Pre in ONE year.
Normally? You mean with your whole 3 post track record? Mkay.
He can't read an article without posting about it? He could have been working with Apple products LONG before you have, but since he has a low post count he's not to be taken seriously? If he posted fart jokes 1000 times in a row, then you would take him seriously?
And really, who the hell wants to carry around batteries or other extra crap? Like you're lugging around ammo and scopes or something. What is this, Viet Nam???
Non-removable batteries is the name of the game. Just make them quickly chargeable and long-lasting. And at worst, replaceable by the manufacturer.
Oh, and third parties have already made plenty of extra batteries (attachable) and power packs for the iPhone. So, it's a non-issue, really. There are iPhone car chargers in abundance, too.
And really, who the hell wants to carry around attachable power packs? Wait, what's the difference? Is the power pack disposable? Is it smaller than your average cell phone battery? Does it recharge the battery faster than simply swapping out the battery with a full one?
How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.
How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.
I wouldn't.
I'd rather have a charger in the car and in the house (that you don't carry with you) rather than have extra batteries lying around. I don't use power packs, either.
The Pre is hideous looking. Sorry, 2 years on an iPhone and I can't even entertain the idea of such a half-assed "competitor".
June 6th release? Ha are you kidding me? This is called, "Whatever we do, it has to be on sale before WWDC, or we won't sell ANY of them."
At least they'll get a few Pandora suckers to drop $300 + 2 year Sprint contract on it.
Relax. Its hilarious to some people to see people clamoring for "more", and thinking the Palm Pre is it. Its hilarious because it couldn't be more wrong. Everyone knows it, except the people that are constant victims of advertising. And the release date? I'm telling you right now, it was CRITICAL that they launch this product before the announcement of the new iPhone. This was the best they do, logistically. 2 days.
This product will sell about 100,000 units, over 2 days, then yes its DEAD, thanks to iPhone 3.
For the most part they pre's customer base will be current sprint customers that for some reason or another can't switch to att.
all these iphone wannabees will continue to be around while att retain's iphone exclusivity, the day iphone sells to all networks (in one or two years) then palm and blackberry will be screwed.
And really, who the hell wants to carry around attachable power packs? Wait, what's the difference? Is the power pack disposable? Is it smaller than your average cell phone battery? Does it recharge the battery faster than simply swapping out the battery with a full one?
How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.
I don't want to buy and carry around a specialized battery that works for one device. I used my wife's ipod AA battery thingamig for my iPhone and a $10 external rechargable pack that isn't much larger than a cell phone battery because all it really is is a cell phone battery with a dock connector.
Comments
Same here, are you with Rogers or Fido?
Fido, although there's 100% overlap for the last 6 months or more. At least in all the areas I've been to.
And to everyone who's bringing up the existence of the app store as a reason not to get a pre, just answer me one thing: What if Apple decided that they were going to give up because they had to compete with the popularity of Windows? Apple once was (and still is in some regards) the underdog that fought past the naysayers. Why wouldn't you relate to Palm in the same regard?
Yes, Palm is just as beleaguered today as Apple was in 1996-1998. I bought a G3 PowerMac in 1998 (though using only my soon-to-expire Apple Citicard reward points so it was really free - Citicard was another thing that Jobs killed), so that would be like buying a Pre today. So why did I buy?
Did I mention the reward points?
Is Pre competitive with iPhone? It's the best competitive device thus far.
Is there something in the Pre that I'd really want? No; multitasking, physical keyboard, replaceable battery, and Synergy are nice-to-have but nothing incredible. And I'd be giving up some current apps for 3-to-4 months; and the iPhone 3.0 apps/ecosystem is way ahead of where Palm is today.
Do I have more confidence in Palm or Apple to extend its utility (including 3rd parties) in the next 2 years? Palm has shown some innovation with Synergy, but Apple is the "founder" of the small-screen multi-touch paradigm. Palm app development just got started but the developer buzz is muted compared to that for iPhone 3.0 app development. And finally, I have more confidence in an Apple/Jobs/Cook vision, then in one from Apple castoff Rubinstein (who argued that iPod shouldn't become a phone).
Same here, are you with Rogers or Fido?
Just to add, I live in Mississauga and it's just fine here. Downtown Toronto is great. Outlying areas too.
Interestingly enough, it's also pretty strong in the Huntsville/Port Sydney area up North, and I'm talking way deep in the woods here, on the snowmobile trails.
And what feature is this Pre bringing that haven't been out in phones for years, name one feature?
WebOS. That's a pretty significant thing. Yes it's just an OS, but no one else has used it before.
Yes and yes. It's not about carrying one around- where did you get that from? It's about you walking into a store and you replacing it, when and if you need it. And swapping batteries is common place for cameras- we do have them in NYC and sell batteries at JandR. Many of us buy them. Why buy a brick to hook on your iPhone when you could simply travel with a battery?
Have you ever been outside of an Apple store or Teckserve?
20 months... iPhone battery still lasts all day - no need to replace it.
And what's the difference when you're traveling whether you're carrying a "brick" or second battery in your bag?
Bashing? I didn't say it wasn't good/bad. My comment was based on the current status of both Palm and Sprint as companies. Both are doing poorly, so it wouldn't shock me to see this venture fail...
You're right - but there is a ton of bashing going on here for something not even released. Amazing -isn't it?
And what's the difference when you're traveling whether you're carrying a "brick" or second battery in your bag?
WEIGHT? SIZE?
Totally different situation, totally different markets (Apple 1996 vs. Palm today), and completely different business phliosophies.
Palm isn't the "underdog." There's nothing heroic about them. They make phones, and are just another company struggling to remain relevant, same as Motorola. Palm devices were nice back in the day, but they were nothing special, and nothing on the level of what Apple was in the early days. Now THAT was heroic. THAT was something worth cheering for. They created the Macintosh and the OS that went along with it, which singlehandedly revolutionized the entire industry. It was an icon, something by which time is measured in the tech world. Nothing less. Microsoft and Bill G wnet absolutely batshit crazy because of it, and that seething, palpable jealousy (beyond just envy) of Apple is not only still characteristic of MS today, but is stronger than ever.
Palm made an iPhone knockoff with the help of ex-Apple engineers, with only a fraction of the potential of the iPhone (for now.) Released (or rather, allegedly to be released in June) two years after Apple shook everything up already.
If they achieve FAR MORE than what the iPhone has, then I'll be impressed. Don't forget that the iPhone almost overnight took the #1 smartphone spot in the US and #3 worldwide, and held it, and then forced everyone else to up their game. Not by accident or Nokia-like cheap sales, either. And most didn't do very well back then and still can't manage to compete. The Pre has to be far and away so much more than the iPhone to really matter. Otherwise, it's just another Blackberry-esque, Storm-type device that didn't live up to the hype. There are plenty of iPhone copycats out there that are far too obvious. Same with the iPod, really, You've got the iPod. Then you've got everything else.
Good luck getting developers, too. With the iPhone around that's an uphill battle as well. You have to have an app store, too. And its implemenation and robustness has to be impressive, to say the least. And let's hope the recession doesn't kill the Pre. Apple has already established a reputation for quality and innovation. Palm's reputation - whatever is might have been, has long since been forgotten and is today synonymous with galactic laziness. Well, for those that even remember Palm or know what Palm is today. They never were much in the branding department.
Oh GOD don't even get me started. Sprint has been some of the worst, and best experiences I've had. You know what I tell people thinking of switching to sprint? As long as you never have to deal with customer service, everything will be hunky dory! That's the truth. Dealing with customer service will enrage you beyond anything you've felt. Some people flat out hang up on you. It's painfully obvious Sprint cuts cost by hiring morons for tier 1 and 2 level customer support.
This is true... I was a Sprint customer for more than a decade. It is a fact that their network coverage is inferior to AT&T's and Verizon's, but I was happy enough with the phones I used. And then, after all those decades, I had to sort some problems out with customer service, and I saw a completely different side to Sprint. Never again. Everyone I know who once used Sprint eventually left for the same reason.
WEIGHT? SIZE?
And really, who the hell wants to carry around batteries or other extra crap? Like you're lugging around ammo and scopes or something. What is this, Viet Nam???
Non-removable batteries is the name of the game. Just make them quickly chargeable and long-lasting. And at worst, replaceable by the manufacturer.
Oh, and third parties have already made plenty of extra batteries (attachable) and power packs for the iPhone. So, it's a non-issue, really. There are iPhone car chargers in abundance, too.
Normally I would have a Apple fanboy kneejerk reaction to anything non-Apple.
Normally? You mean with your whole 3 post track record? Mkay.
That's not the problem. Apple was releasing into a vacuum, a market dominated by utterly useless "smart" phones that were difficult to use, had absolutely useless browsers and didn't sync up anything you actually wanted. Don't get me wrong, the BB is a superb business tool (better than the iPhone even today) but there wasn't a single consumer smart phone out there worth buying. Period.
That is no longer true. Apple has wrapped up the majority of the brain-space (forget sales, people talk about everything in relation to the iPhone) and they've set the bar for others to meet. Lets not forget that a year ago everyone was talking about how this new open web-based development environment combined with a real keyboard and better camera was going to kick the iPhone's butt. Pre? No, G1.
The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.
Maury
When iphone came out, it was 600 dollars, but the argument is that's because of the market. Now the pre is coming out, for half as much, and people are saying this is so horrible. Lets take a look at that for a second and compare it to complaints about the iphone's lack of mms and copy and paste. What's the argument there? The argument is that the iphone is still "young" and other phones had these features because they had time to develop them. Well, HELLO? The Pre won't have a 200 dollar price point right out of the gate because it will take time to get there, just as it took TWO YEARS for the iphone to get to the most basic features of a "smart phone."
To say the Pre should start out with all the latest and greatest is to also say the iphone should have as well. To say that Apple's excuse for these artificial limitations is because of it's infancy is to say that the Pre can carry that excuse for the next two years as well.
I know I know, Palm was in the phone business long before Apple, right? Well instead of 2 years, lets see what Palm is capable of accomplishing with the Pre in ONE year.
Normally? You mean with your whole 3 post track record? Mkay.
He can't read an article without posting about it? He could have been working with Apple products LONG before you have, but since he has a low post count he's not to be taken seriously? If he posted fart jokes 1000 times in a row, then you would take him seriously?
jeesh
And really, who the hell wants to carry around batteries or other extra crap? Like you're lugging around ammo and scopes or something. What is this, Viet Nam???
Non-removable batteries is the name of the game. Just make them quickly chargeable and long-lasting. And at worst, replaceable by the manufacturer.
Oh, and third parties have already made plenty of extra batteries (attachable) and power packs for the iPhone. So, it's a non-issue, really. There are iPhone car chargers in abundance, too.
And really, who the hell wants to carry around attachable power packs? Wait, what's the difference? Is the power pack disposable? Is it smaller than your average cell phone battery? Does it recharge the battery faster than simply swapping out the battery with a full one?
How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.
Apple says you don't need it and it's not necessary- stop complaining and defending it!
(I thought I would pre-empt solipism on this one)
I just spent an gninormous amount of time on an airplane (24 friking hours including the layovers).
My iPhone lasted the whole time by being recharged via AA batteries. So I watched several movies, read a book and played a lot of games.
All without being able to replace the battery.
Oh yes, indeed, but can they be "good enough in just a couple areas" and be the iPhone killer everyone wants? No.
Maybe. If streaming porn works flawlessly, you could have the number one selling phone of all time.
How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.
I wouldn't.
I'd rather have a charger in the car and in the house (that you don't carry with you) rather than have extra batteries lying around. I don't use power packs, either.
The Pre is hideous looking. Sorry, 2 years on an iPhone and I can't even entertain the idea of such a half-assed "competitor".
June 6th release? Ha are you kidding me? This is called, "Whatever we do, it has to be on sale before WWDC, or we won't sell ANY of them."
At least they'll get a few Pandora suckers to drop $300 + 2 year Sprint contract on it.
Relax. Its hilarious to some people to see people clamoring for "more", and thinking the Palm Pre is it. Its hilarious because it couldn't be more wrong. Everyone knows it, except the people that are constant victims of advertising. And the release date? I'm telling you right now, it was CRITICAL that they launch this product before the announcement of the new iPhone. This was the best they do, logistically. 2 days.
This product will sell about 100,000 units, over 2 days, then yes its DEAD, thanks to iPhone 3.
For the most part they pre's customer base will be current sprint customers that for some reason or another can't switch to att.
all these iphone wannabees will continue to be around while att retain's iphone exclusivity, the day iphone sells to all networks (in one or two years) then palm and blackberry will be screwed.
And really, who the hell wants to carry around attachable power packs? Wait, what's the difference? Is the power pack disposable? Is it smaller than your average cell phone battery? Does it recharge the battery faster than simply swapping out the battery with a full one?
How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.
I don't want to buy and carry around a specialized battery that works for one device. I used my wife's ipod AA battery thingamig for my iPhone and a $10 external rechargable pack that isn't much larger than a cell phone battery because all it really is is a cell phone battery with a dock connector.