Inductive charging is a cool feature. I understand why electric toothbrushes should have it. They need the closed environment and are used infrequently between charges. Does have a dock with a plug make that big of a difference in convenience since it still has to be docked? It would be really cool if it could just laid on a simple pad that you also your keys and wallet on at night? Is there a time difference in how long it takes to charge the same size battery with direct connection? How much heat is output is there and how much more power does it use to complete the charge?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Very funny Sol, I'm sure you're quick enough to understand the comments. Or at least I used to.
I wasn?t making a joke or being funny, but I was reading 3 pages of comments quickly to catch up with the thread. I?m guessing you were just continuing your thought, but you could be going senile you never know.
Really? What will the new iphone have that will "change the game"? Please link me to where you can confirm this and it's not hearsay...
We're talking about Apple here. How many people said the same thing before the 3G? Look what happened. Wait until June to find out. I'm quite confident we'll be pleasantly surprised, and there will be something (perhaps several things) that no one knows about yet, despite the new iPhone OS betas.
What CDMA peple who are happy with their service would want to switch to AT&T's lousy 3G network-Yechh!
The fanboyz have already switched - lightning will be very hard to strike 3 times. Many of the sales will be renewals only.
That's a blanket statement. Sprint/Verizon CDMA in my area is horrendous; both voice and 3G. Yet AT&T has full coverage.
Get what works for you, and be done with it. My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...
what R&D costs are you talking about? Paying for iPhone engineers to jump ship to Palm?
Correct. Most of Palm's engineering team are ex-Apple (and some are recent ex-Apple), as well as some of the execs. I posted all the names on Newoin a couple of months ago. There's a lot.
It's not the Palm Pre, it's the iPalm.
Apple's innovative arm stretches beyond Cupertino. Hell, Palm is located in California as well. Convenient, convenient.
That's a blanket statement. Sprint/Verizon CDMA in my area is horrendous; both voice and 3G. Yet AT&T has full coverage.
Get what works for you, and be done with it. My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...
CDMA is nearly dead. 3G is the way to go, and AT&T has improved its 3G coverage considerably.
And the Pre isn't even released yet, anyway. It has plenty to prove, and plenty of ground to make up. And all the developers are flocking to the iPhone. Nothing has the ecosystem that iPhone has. Not even close. Developers are also leaving the Blackberry to get in on the iPhone action.
Palm could not have released the Pre at a worse time. The party's all but over. In any case, it'll be an interesting release to watch.
Being able to replace the battery is an attractive feature. For example, if you're traveling for an extended period of time, and you've got a fully charged spare battery, it's nice to just pop it in and go after the first battery is drained.
Not a key feature everyone looks for, but not a bad one either.
You're right. But you can also buy an external battery pack for the iPhone that works just as well. I bought one for my bus trips to Chicago. Worked great. Uses 4 AA rechargeable batteries and works for 8+ hours straight without using up any of the internal battery power in the iPhone. Yes, there is a cord that connects the power pack to the iPhone, but if I'm sitting down for all those hours, It's not a big deal.
My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...
Nothing surpises me- especially a comment like that posted on here- bashing a competitor's product before it's even released.
He makes a valid point. Palm can't come to market today with a $600 Pre and expect it to sell. IF they had come out with it two years ago before the iPhone? Maybe.
People wouldn't pay $600 for an iPhone today because they know they don't have to pay that much. Comparing this to two years ago just doesn't make sense because market conditions have changed.
But the original iPhone didn?t have a subsidy tied to it. On top of that, Apple had a clear winner here in the states where smartphones were either business or geek focused. There wasn?t a single one that was consumer media focused and had a decent web browser. Now, the Pre is fighting in a market that has changed dramatically in two years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz
The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.
I think Palm can get away with being good enough in just a couple areas and do very well. I agree that the rebate is a gaffe, which I think will be removed fairly quickly. Probably making it a $199 price, perhaps right before the next iPhone hits stores, but if they can do backgrond apps, which should be efficient and easy to make with their HTML, JS and CSS development platform, that may be enough for many. The apps I use the most on my iPhone can easily be done, and probably more efficiently if they used web based code.
Oh balogna. Apple spent a decade releasing utter crap and failing to do any serious development work.
Instead of striking out on their own, like they did with the Mac, they simply listened to what the pundits were saying and did that. Pundits said CORBA was the next big thing? Let's do SOM. Email? PowerTalk. 3D? RAVE. Database access? DAL and DAM. Typesetting? QDGX. All of these products sucked, because they (sometimes) didn't really understand them and (more commonly) didn't have the resources to make them complete.
Meanwhile all of this was being built on a single-user single-tasking OS that couldn't hope to do them justice. And every time they chased one of these "next big things" (which promptly disappeared) that was another minute they spent not working on the core OS. So by 1996 the OS is utterly hopeless, and Apple has a whole portfolio of garbage no one wanted in the first place. Geez, X.400 servers?!
What Palm lacked was direction, exactly what Apple was laking. What they still lack is "on their own". Lets face it, every single mention of the Pre has a mention of the iPhone.
I agree with this, maybe it's more advertising for the iphone.
I'm very familiar with Sprint's rebate policies, as you can tell from my post.
I don't trust them. They don't have a good history with them.
I don't understand why companies offer rebates to entice a sale and then refuse to honor them. In the long run it's a shoot yourself in the foot policy. Out of convenience I was a regular major appliance shopping at Sears for my apartment building. I didn't get my promised rebate. I complained to the local store and the Chicago office of the CEO. They promised a gift card instead. It didn't come either. Now I get my major appliances from Pacific Sales (Best Buy) and do the "points" thing. So far the rebates have arrived, but would prefer a discounted price.
Nothing surpises me- especially a comment like that posted on here- bashing a competitor's product before it's even released.
Bashing? I didn't say it wasn't good/bad. My comment was based on the current status of both Palm and Sprint as companies. Both are doing poorly, so it wouldn't shock me to see this venture fail...
I am I the only one thinking - a OS based on CSS, XHTML, and JavaScript??? Unless im getting the wrong end of the stick but, surely that thing is going to get nailed with viruses etc?? And when was the last time you had a page load correctly in two different browsers? I might just be missing the entire point, and I know I dont know much about the Pre. But seriously, I would be VERy worried if my OS was using the web technologies to operate. Also background apps - big sucker on battery life due to the process threads required to keep them running, and viruses running the background? All sounds scary in my little world, but then thats me.
I am I the only one thinking - a OS based on CSS, XHTML, and JavaScript??? Unless im getting the wrong end of the stick but, surely that thing is going to get nailed with viruses etc?? And when was the last time you had a page load correctly in two different browsers? I might just be missing the entire point, and I know I dont know much about the Pre. But seriously, I would be VERy worried if my OS was using the web technologies to operate. Also background apps - big sucker on battery life due to the process threads required to keep them running, and viruses running the background? All sounds scary in my little world, but then thats me.
Remember, this an OS built on well treaded open standards that are lightweight because they were designed around the internet. The apps that will run on the device are designed to run on WebOS so they will be the same each time. The webpages will render like they do in Safari, it?s the same WebKit browser after all.
This is a unique position for them to take and it?s the best one I?ve seen to combat the iPhone OS X. They have 3rd-party apps right out of the gate, something Apple had to wait over a year to get on their phone OS. They will be more limited than other mobile OS phone apps, but that may not be an issue if most apps people need can be done quickly with webcode.
I beg to differ. Any review of iPhone or any product for that matter show both pros and cons.
Always - ALWAYS -in the con column is "NO REPLACEABLE BATTERY".
Reviews are based off expectations, not real world use. That is far from an "outcry". If there were a true outcry from consumers who purchased and used iPhones, Apple would respond to it. Instead they went ahead and designed and built a laptop without a user replaceable battery.
> Im exciting that some company is finally challenging Apple. First smartphone to excite the public.
Ummm, do you mean Google with Android? No? What about RIM with Storm? No? HTC Touch? No, not that either? Ohhhh, you mean Palm with Pre, the phone that's far less interesting or open than Android and a year later. Yes, that's the one that will really knock off the iPhone... "The public", by which you really mean "the blogosphere" has been repeatedly excited by the next phone for ages now.
When the iPod came out we suffered through two years of "iPod killers" where everyone desperately hoped that someone would knock them off their perch. Even when the Zune was coming, years late, they were still beating the drumbeat for the latest iPod killer. And here we see the same thing all over again. Every single "smart"phone that's shipped in the last year has been "the iPhone killer", only to sink without anyone even noticing. And now it's the Pre's turn to be the latest savior of everyone that considers themselves too cool for Apple while listening to the latest "counterculture" band that's come out of the big-label PR machines.
Comments
It's amusing that 3G here in Toronto absolutely rocks. I have to drive a LONG way before I drop to Edge, and I get solid speed throughout.
It's different everywhere. There were a few places in NYC where my Sprint service was better than the one from Verizon. But that's rare.
Very funny Sol, I'm sure you're quick enough to understand the comments. Or at least I used to.
I wasn?t making a joke or being funny, but I was reading 3 pages of comments quickly to catch up with the thread. I?m guessing you were just continuing your thought, but you could be going senile you never know.
Really? What will the new iphone have that will "change the game"?
We're talking about Apple here. How many people said the same thing before the 3G? Look what happened. Wait until June to find out. I'm quite confident we'll be pleasantly surprised, and there will be something (perhaps several things) that no one knows about yet, despite the new iPhone OS betas.
HOw is that?
What CDMA peple who are happy with their service would want to switch to AT&T's lousy 3G network-Yechh!
The fanboyz have already switched - lightning will be very hard to strike 3 times. Many of the sales will be renewals only.
That's a blanket statement. Sprint/Verizon CDMA in my area is horrendous; both voice and 3G. Yet AT&T has full coverage.
Get what works for you, and be done with it. My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...
what R&D costs are you talking about? Paying for iPhone engineers to jump ship to Palm?
Correct. Most of Palm's engineering team are ex-Apple (and some are recent ex-Apple), as well as some of the execs. I posted all the names on Newoin a couple of months ago. There's a lot.
It's not the Palm Pre, it's the iPalm.
Apple's innovative arm stretches beyond Cupertino. Hell, Palm is located in California as well. Convenient, convenient.
)
Doesn't get better than that. So, go stew in it.
Acutally it does- if you had sold it 9 months ago.
That's a blanket statement. Sprint/Verizon CDMA in my area is horrendous; both voice and 3G. Yet AT&T has full coverage.
Get what works for you, and be done with it. My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...
CDMA is nearly dead. 3G is the way to go, and AT&T has improved its 3G coverage considerably.
And the Pre isn't even released yet, anyway. It has plenty to prove, and plenty of ground to make up. And all the developers are flocking to the iPhone. Nothing has the ecosystem that iPhone has. Not even close. Developers are also leaving the Blackberry to get in on the iPhone action.
Palm could not have released the Pre at a worse time. The party's all but over. In any case, it'll be an interesting release to watch.
Being able to replace the battery is an attractive feature. For example, if you're traveling for an extended period of time, and you've got a fully charged spare battery, it's nice to just pop it in and go after the first battery is drained.
Not a key feature everyone looks for, but not a bad one either.
You're right. But you can also buy an external battery pack for the iPhone that works just as well. I bought one for my bus trips to Chicago. Worked great. Uses 4 AA rechargeable batteries and works for 8+ hours straight without using up any of the internal battery power in the iPhone. Yes, there is a cord that connects the power pack to the iPhone, but if I'm sitting down for all those hours, It's not a big deal.
Im exciting that some company is finally challenging Apple. First smartphone to excite the public.
But...iPhone still wins. (at least for me)
Where exactly is all this excitement to be found outside the internet forums?
Most people have no idea what a Pre is.
My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...
Nothing surpises me- especially a comment like that posted on here- bashing a competitor's product before it's even released.
He makes a valid point. Palm can't come to market today with a $600 Pre and expect it to sell. IF they had come out with it two years ago before the iPhone? Maybe.
People wouldn't pay $600 for an iPhone today because they know they don't have to pay that much. Comparing this to two years ago just doesn't make sense because market conditions have changed.
But the original iPhone didn?t have a subsidy tied to it. On top of that, Apple had a clear winner here in the states where smartphones were either business or geek focused. There wasn?t a single one that was consumer media focused and had a decent web browser. Now, the Pre is fighting in a market that has changed dramatically in two years.
The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.
I think Palm can get away with being good enough in just a couple areas and do very well. I agree that the rebate is a gaffe, which I think will be removed fairly quickly. Probably making it a $199 price, perhaps right before the next iPhone hits stores, but if they can do backgrond apps, which should be efficient and easy to make with their HTML, JS and CSS development platform, that may be enough for many. The apps I use the most on my iPhone can easily be done, and probably more efficiently if they used web based code.
Oh balogna. Apple spent a decade releasing utter crap and failing to do any serious development work.
Instead of striking out on their own, like they did with the Mac, they simply listened to what the pundits were saying and did that. Pundits said CORBA was the next big thing? Let's do SOM. Email? PowerTalk. 3D? RAVE. Database access? DAL and DAM. Typesetting? QDGX. All of these products sucked, because they (sometimes) didn't really understand them and (more commonly) didn't have the resources to make them complete.
Meanwhile all of this was being built on a single-user single-tasking OS that couldn't hope to do them justice. And every time they chased one of these "next big things" (which promptly disappeared) that was another minute they spent not working on the core OS. So by 1996 the OS is utterly hopeless, and Apple has a whole portfolio of garbage no one wanted in the first place. Geez, X.400 servers?!
What Palm lacked was direction, exactly what Apple was laking. What they still lack is "on their own". Lets face it, every single mention of the Pre has a mention of the iPhone.
I agree with this, maybe it's more advertising for the iphone.
I'm very familiar with Sprint's rebate policies, as you can tell from my post.
I don't trust them. They don't have a good history with them.
I don't understand why companies offer rebates to entice a sale and then refuse to honor them. In the long run it's a shoot yourself in the foot policy. Out of convenience I was a regular major appliance shopping at Sears for my apartment building. I didn't get my promised rebate. I complained to the local store and the Chicago office of the CEO. They promised a gift card instead. It didn't come either. Now I get my major appliances from Pacific Sales (Best Buy) and do the "points" thing. So far the rebates have arrived, but would prefer a discounted price.
Nothing surpises me- especially a comment like that posted on here- bashing a competitor's product before it's even released.
Bashing? I didn't say it wasn't good/bad. My comment was based on the current status of both Palm and Sprint as companies. Both are doing poorly, so it wouldn't shock me to see this venture fail...
It's amusing that 3G here in Toronto absolutely rocks. I have to drive a LONG way before I drop to Edge, and I get solid speed throughout.
Same here, are you with Rogers or Fido?
I am I the only one thinking - a OS based on CSS, XHTML, and JavaScript??? Unless im getting the wrong end of the stick but, surely that thing is going to get nailed with viruses etc?? And when was the last time you had a page load correctly in two different browsers? I might just be missing the entire point, and I know I dont know much about the Pre. But seriously, I would be VERy worried if my OS was using the web technologies to operate. Also background apps - big sucker on battery life due to the process threads required to keep them running, and viruses running the background? All sounds scary in my little world, but then thats me.
Remember, this an OS built on well treaded open standards that are lightweight because they were designed around the internet. The apps that will run on the device are designed to run on WebOS so they will be the same each time. The webpages will render like they do in Safari, it?s the same WebKit browser after all.
This is a unique position for them to take and it?s the best one I?ve seen to combat the iPhone OS X. They have 3rd-party apps right out of the gate, something Apple had to wait over a year to get on their phone OS. They will be more limited than other mobile OS phone apps, but that may not be an issue if most apps people need can be done quickly with webcode.
I beg to differ. Any review of iPhone or any product for that matter show both pros and cons.
Always - ALWAYS -in the con column is "NO REPLACEABLE BATTERY".
Reviews are based off expectations, not real world use. That is far from an "outcry". If there were a true outcry from consumers who purchased and used iPhones, Apple would respond to it. Instead they went ahead and designed and built a laptop without a user replaceable battery.
Ummm, do you mean Google with Android? No? What about RIM with Storm? No? HTC Touch? No, not that either? Ohhhh, you mean Palm with Pre, the phone that's far less interesting or open than Android and a year later. Yes, that's the one that will really knock off the iPhone... "The public", by which you really mean "the blogosphere" has been repeatedly excited by the next phone for ages now.
When the iPod came out we suffered through two years of "iPod killers" where everyone desperately hoped that someone would knock them off their perch. Even when the Zune was coming, years late, they were still beating the drumbeat for the latest iPod killer. And here we see the same thing all over again. Every single "smart"phone that's shipped in the last year has been "the iPhone killer", only to sink without anyone even noticing. And now it's the Pre's turn to be the latest savior of everyone that considers themselves too cool for Apple while listening to the latest "counterculture" band that's come out of the big-label PR machines.
Maury
I think Palm can get away with being good enough in just a couple areas and do very well.
Oh yes, indeed, but can they be "good enough in just a couple areas" and be the iPhone killer everyone wants? No.