Apple is among a list of top handset makers who have agreed to support a European Union-backed initiative on standardizing phone chargers across the continent, which should benefit both consumers and the environment. ...
This article makes no sense to me on the face of it. It has to be missing some information.
The important difference between adapters and the reason there are so many of them is not the plug end but the voltages. Making every device have a mini-USB plughole (especially if the companies are allowed to get around it with an adapter) is not going to make every device chargeable by the same adapter necessarily. Getting device manufacturers to agree that all low voltage devices use the same voltage would go further, but perhaps that is a part of this spec but not explicitly stated.
Standards change and plugs change over time as well. It's likely that the biggest benefit of this move is simply the fact that the industry is into cooperating on this and the un-stated assumption that the *next* standard will also have a chance of being used by all the same players.
The important difference between adapters and the reason there are so many of them is not the plug end but the voltages.
Doesn't using USB make it effectively like plugging it into your computer? Isn't this what Apple does already with full size USB cable? So the voltage is the same as any USB.
This article makes no sense to me on the face of it. It has to be missing some information.
The important difference between adapters and the reason there are so many of them is not the plug end but the voltages. Making every device have a mini-USB plughole (especially if the companies are allowed to get around it with an adapter) is not going to make every device chargeable by the same adapter necessarily. Getting device manufacturers to agree that all low voltage devices use the same voltage would go further, but perhaps that is a part of this spec but not explicitly stated.
Standards change and plugs change over time as well. It's likely that the biggest benefit of this move is simply the fact that the industry is into cooperating on this and the un-stated assumption that the *next* standard will also have a chance of being used by all the same players.
Voltage is included in the USB/Micro USB standard. Have you ever fried your printer from plugging it into an overvoltaged USB port? There will still have to be different chargers in different countries due to the variation in home plug shapes and the voltage of the power source, but every phone in the same area will (in theory) be able to use the same charger.
I'm all for standardisation in cases like this, and all for regulation in order that it is achieved as quickly as possible. However I do think that they've standardised the wrong end of the cable here. Why not standardise on a power brick with a standard-sized USB connector on it, and have every phone which doesn't employ a micro-USB connector on the phone itself (which should be recommended but not compulsory) include a cable ending with a stndard USB connector?
Because cables get lost a lot more easily than power bricks.
If most manufacturers comply with this initiative by including adaptors, I guess the initiative backfires because adaptors also get lost easily. There's plenty of room on the iPhone to put a dedicated micro-usb port on it, but I agree that an adaptor is the most likely way Apple will comply. I expect other manufacturers will have a micro-usb socket on the phone as many of them use that connector already.
Wait, what crap data bandwidth? Doesn't Micro USB use the same USB signaling that's in the dock connector? Besides, it's not as if iPod/Phone transfer speeds are blowing anyone's socks off yet.
I was more referring to the 30-pin port vs the micro than the actual transfer speed across USB - more available pins means there are more things you can do with the device. Heck, as others have mentioned there are still unused pins on the iPhone - if they go micro-USB you can throw that idea out the window.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
What are they using to connect their smartphones to their computers now? How does this create more waste? A usb to micro-usb cable would also allow people to charge their non-Apple smartphones with the Apple charger, probably one of the "greenest" out there. And the plan is to eventually extend this standard to all phones.
Edit: To clarify, smart phones don't have full size usb ports on them, if that is what you are arguing in favor of.
Not only that - those european socialists will force Apple to stop selling OS-X!!!
You don't have to be a "socialist" to care about the environment, and it's not socialist to enact a bit of legislation to encourage common sense. Why do some people have to see things in such an unsophisticated black-and-white way? The natural extension of your argument is that we should be living in a state of anarchy. Then there wouldn't be any rules at all. Unfortunately human nature is such that society would then break down - is that really what you want? Stop throwing political names around like that - let's try and keep this debate just a bit sophisticated, please.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
That part of it makes sense. The fullsized USB is too large. The Micro-USB interface was desiged specifically to accomodate this type of interface. Note that smartphones will likely come with this cable and by the time any vendor stops including the cable you'll have plenty of them around. Of all the USB cables I've had very few were ever USB-A-to-USB-A cables, so I don't see it as a problem in that sense.
The reporting I have seen on this is woefully nonspecific.
From what I have seen, I believe phone manufacturers have agreed to standardize CHARGERS, not phones. That means that chargers will be simplified, and contain a MICRO-USB jack, which is smaller than a mini-USB jack.
Whatever cable connects to the phone, the charger end will have a micro-USB jack, instead of, in Apple's case, a standard USB jack. So Apple doesn't have to do anything with their phone design, nor does any other manufacturer. They can still use round power connectors, or dock connectors or micro-USB connectors on the phones.
What the manufacturers have to agree on is the power and voltage coming out of the micro-USB jack, and any auxiliary signals applied to the data lines.
My guess is that the iPhone design won't change a bit because of this, but the software may behave differently if some signals are not supplied by the universal style power supply.
So to limit the number of chargers that end up in land fills we will sell them cheap on every corner?
They are already cheap on every corner and we have 100 of them there to cover, Nokia, Motorola, Apple, you name it. Now they can stock 10 standardized cables so yes it does make a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickmyface
Yeah, I don't understand this.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
My phone came with a wall charger as I am sure yours did. My charger was a usb to microUSB cable and the USB end had a plug that attached to it that looked like this.
So you do create less waste because while in the past you would have had a charging cable and a data cable, now you have both in one. It is also quite convenient to just plug it into the computer too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
That part of it makes sense. The fullsized USB is too large. The Micro-USB interface was desiged specifically to accomodate this type of interface. Note that smartphones will likely come with this cable and by the time any vendor stops including the cable you'll have plenty of them around. Of all the USB cables I've had very few were ever USB-A-to-USB-A cables, so I don't see it as a problem in that sense.
Because cables get lost a lot more easily than power bricks.
If most manufacturers comply with this initiative by including adaptors, I guess the initiative backfires because adaptors also get lost easily. There's plenty of room on the iPhone to put a dedicated micro-usb port on it, but I agree that an adaptor is the most likely way Apple will comply. I expect other manufacturers will have a micro-usb socket on the phone as many of them use that connector already.
I don't think this initiative has been introduced because people lose power bricks, but because there are vastly more of them produced at a very significant cost to the environment than are needed. Getting a new cable is very straightforward and has low resource implications.
The reporting I have seen on this is woefully nonspecific.
From what I have seen, I believe phone manufacturers have agreed to standardize CHARGERS, not phones. That means that chargers will be simplified, and contain a MICRO-USB jack, which is smaller than a mini-USB jack.
In general, this causes more adapters and cables to be made if computers are still going to include the USB-A interface without a Micro-USB interface. There is also plenty of room on the charger for USB-A so I am thinking this is regarding the charger?s cable, which usually doesn?t come detached from the charger like Apple?s does. They really should have gone Apple?s route and made the charger use USB-A and have the cable be separate. Good ol? EU!
And? The point is that people avoid needless power adaptors, which are much more harmful to the environment. Having a plug adaptor is much much better carrying around multiple power packs.
I'm not impressed with your inability to really leave - you did say goodbye last weekend and now you're back, without even making a new handle! Lame!
I'm not impressed with your inability to really leave - you did say goodbye last weekend and now you're back, without even making a new handle! Lame!
He already received another infraction this morning for a personal attack. I don’t understand why he would do that if he wants to post under the same name.
Perfect hindsight is difficult to acquire before the act.
There are quite a lot of reports of inserting a FW400 plug the wrong way into the connector, thus connecting the power pins with the data lines and consequently frying something along the data path. I have seen it myself, once somebody forces a FW400 plug the wrong way in, no extra force is needed a second time (thus easily frying a second device). The FW800 connector is much more foolproof in this respect.
I once caused $1400 damage to a video camera I own because I had FireWire ports on the back of a pc and I had to reach around the back to plug in the FireWire cable blind. Fortunately it was insured and I didn't have to pay a dime. I was pretty unhappy though. So yes FireWire 800 is a very necessary and good redesign. I won't use 400 now unless I really have to.
Different batteries require different rechargers. Larger batteries require more output from the charger in order to charge in the specified time. A charger with lower output will take longer to charge the phone. A charger with higher output for a smaller battery will still pull more current out of the wall than a smaller, properly sized charger.
When you consider that they want people to buy the charger separately, rather than have the manufacturer sell one with each phone, then the charger will cost more because of the extra packaging, shipping, shelving etc. In addition, with the small chargers used today, it doesn't do much to increase box size. but now, it will be environmentally unfriendly because of the extra packaging, shipping etc.
More than a few people won't remember to buy a charger even though they'll need it, so they'll get ticked when they get it home and realize that they have to go back to the store?costing more in polluting services.
Overall, I'm not so sure they'll see nearly the gain they think they will.
The EU comes out with these "standards" every so often without thinking it through.
This connector happened rather by accident. The original iPod was FireWire based as USB was mostly 1.1 at the time (and on the Macs, only 1.1). While USB 1.1 could charge the iPod, syncing was much slower (painfully slow...I used to have a 20GB MP3 player with USB 1.1 before the iPod came out).
When Apple wanted to make a Windows compatible version of the iPod, they needed to use USB 2.0 since most PCs had USB, but not FireWire.
Thus the 30-pin iPod connector was born...one connector that could be used for USB or FireWire, until the iPhone 3G wherein they took the FireWire away (there are adapters for this though).
So now, the 30-pin connector really only provides Apple with 2 things...lock-out with accessories (alarm clocks, stereo systems, speakers,etc...) that are made for iPod/iPhone, and of course maintaining compatibility.
But from a consumer perspective, the 30-pin connector doesn't get us anything, unless we need it for existing compatibility...of course Apple already broke some of this when they removed FireWire. For users without any existing USB based 30-pin connector accessories, they'd be better off if Apple moved away from this connector and went with Micro USB.
It will be interesting to see what Apple does here...especially if they're going to be the only ones with a unique connector (but still in spec because they have an adapter/cable). That might make them be in spec technically, but practically speaking not so much because chargers and accessories (like battery pack chargers) will be made with the standard Micro USB male end.
Comments
Apple is among a list of top handset makers who have agreed to support a European Union-backed initiative on standardizing phone chargers across the continent, which should benefit both consumers and the environment. ...
This article makes no sense to me on the face of it. It has to be missing some information.
The important difference between adapters and the reason there are so many of them is not the plug end but the voltages. Making every device have a mini-USB plughole (especially if the companies are allowed to get around it with an adapter) is not going to make every device chargeable by the same adapter necessarily. Getting device manufacturers to agree that all low voltage devices use the same voltage would go further, but perhaps that is a part of this spec but not explicitly stated.
Standards change and plugs change over time as well. It's likely that the biggest benefit of this move is simply the fact that the industry is into cooperating on this and the un-stated assumption that the *next* standard will also have a chance of being used by all the same players.
The important difference between adapters and the reason there are so many of them is not the plug end but the voltages.
Doesn't using USB make it effectively like plugging it into your computer? Isn't this what Apple does already with full size USB cable? So the voltage is the same as any USB.
This article makes no sense to me on the face of it. It has to be missing some information.
The important difference between adapters and the reason there are so many of them is not the plug end but the voltages. Making every device have a mini-USB plughole (especially if the companies are allowed to get around it with an adapter) is not going to make every device chargeable by the same adapter necessarily. Getting device manufacturers to agree that all low voltage devices use the same voltage would go further, but perhaps that is a part of this spec but not explicitly stated.
Standards change and plugs change over time as well. It's likely that the biggest benefit of this move is simply the fact that the industry is into cooperating on this and the un-stated assumption that the *next* standard will also have a chance of being used by all the same players.
Voltage is included in the USB/Micro USB standard. Have you ever fried your printer from plugging it into an overvoltaged USB port? There will still have to be different chargers in different countries due to the variation in home plug shapes and the voltage of the power source, but every phone in the same area will (in theory) be able to use the same charger.
I'm all for standardisation in cases like this, and all for regulation in order that it is achieved as quickly as possible. However I do think that they've standardised the wrong end of the cable here. Why not standardise on a power brick with a standard-sized USB connector on it, and have every phone which doesn't employ a micro-USB connector on the phone itself (which should be recommended but not compulsory) include a cable ending with a stndard USB connector?
Because cables get lost a lot more easily than power bricks.
If most manufacturers comply with this initiative by including adaptors, I guess the initiative backfires because adaptors also get lost easily. There's plenty of room on the iPhone to put a dedicated micro-usb port on it, but I agree that an adaptor is the most likely way Apple will comply. I expect other manufacturers will have a micro-usb socket on the phone as many of them use that connector already.
Wait, what crap data bandwidth? Doesn't Micro USB use the same USB signaling that's in the dock connector? Besides, it's not as if iPod/Phone transfer speeds are blowing anyone's socks off yet.
I was more referring to the 30-pin port vs the micro than the actual transfer speed across USB - more available pins means there are more things you can do with the device. Heck, as others have mentioned there are still unused pins on the iPhone - if they go micro-USB you can throw that idea out the window.
Market failure simply does not exist.
Even Alan Greenspan gave up that line of crap.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
Yeah, I don't understand this.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
What are they using to connect their smartphones to their computers now? How does this create more waste? A usb to micro-usb cable would also allow people to charge their non-Apple smartphones with the Apple charger, probably one of the "greenest" out there. And the plan is to eventually extend this standard to all phones.
Edit: To clarify, smart phones don't have full size usb ports on them, if that is what you are arguing in favor of.
Not only that - those european socialists will force Apple to stop selling OS-X!!!
You don't have to be a "socialist" to care about the environment, and it's not socialist to enact a bit of legislation to encourage common sense. Why do some people have to see things in such an unsophisticated black-and-white way? The natural extension of your argument is that we should be living in a state of anarchy. Then there wouldn't be any rules at all. Unfortunately human nature is such that society would then break down - is that really what you want? Stop throwing political names around like that - let's try and keep this debate just a bit sophisticated, please.
Yeah, I don't understand this.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
That part of it makes sense. The fullsized USB is too large. The Micro-USB interface was desiged specifically to accomodate this type of interface. Note that smartphones will likely come with this cable and by the time any vendor stops including the cable you'll have plenty of them around. Of all the USB cables I've had very few were ever USB-A-to-USB-A cables, so I don't see it as a problem in that sense.
From what I have seen, I believe phone manufacturers have agreed to standardize CHARGERS, not phones. That means that chargers will be simplified, and contain a MICRO-USB jack, which is smaller than a mini-USB jack.
Whatever cable connects to the phone, the charger end will have a micro-USB jack, instead of, in Apple's case, a standard USB jack. So Apple doesn't have to do anything with their phone design, nor does any other manufacturer. They can still use round power connectors, or dock connectors or micro-USB connectors on the phones.
What the manufacturers have to agree on is the power and voltage coming out of the micro-USB jack, and any auxiliary signals applied to the data lines.
My guess is that the iPhone design won't change a bit because of this, but the software may behave differently if some signals are not supplied by the universal style power supply.
So to limit the number of chargers that end up in land fills we will sell them cheap on every corner?
They are already cheap on every corner and we have 100 of them there to cover, Nokia, Motorola, Apple, you name it. Now they can stock 10 standardized cables so yes it does make a difference.
Yeah, I don't understand this.
Every single computer on earth has a standard sized USB port.
This "standard" is being applied only to smartphones. Smartphones are 99.9% likely to be plugged into a computer (via standard USB, as its the only option.)
Therefor this "standard" forces users to purchase a microUSB-to-usb cable to connect to their computer.
A standard touting less waste is now adding more waste, requiring yet another manufactured item to be purchased.
If the argument was to replace the dock connector with micro-usb to usb, then you would legitimately be cutting back on waste and creating an actual standard. It's hard to say, but it sounds like this is not whats happening. So this is rather stupid.
My phone came with a wall charger as I am sure yours did. My charger was a usb to microUSB cable and the USB end had a plug that attached to it that looked like this.
So you do create less waste because while in the past you would have had a charging cable and a data cable, now you have both in one. It is also quite convenient to just plug it into the computer too.
That part of it makes sense. The fullsized USB is too large. The Micro-USB interface was desiged specifically to accomodate this type of interface. Note that smartphones will likely come with this cable and by the time any vendor stops including the cable you'll have plenty of them around. Of all the USB cables I've had very few were ever USB-A-to-USB-A cables, so I don't see it as a problem in that sense.
Bingo!
Because cables get lost a lot more easily than power bricks.
If most manufacturers comply with this initiative by including adaptors, I guess the initiative backfires because adaptors also get lost easily. There's plenty of room on the iPhone to put a dedicated micro-usb port on it, but I agree that an adaptor is the most likely way Apple will comply. I expect other manufacturers will have a micro-usb socket on the phone as many of them use that connector already.
I don't think this initiative has been introduced because people lose power bricks, but because there are vastly more of them produced at a very significant cost to the environment than are needed. Getting a new cable is very straightforward and has low resource implications.
The reporting I have seen on this is woefully nonspecific.
From what I have seen, I believe phone manufacturers have agreed to standardize CHARGERS, not phones. That means that chargers will be simplified, and contain a MICRO-USB jack, which is smaller than a mini-USB jack.
In general, this causes more adapters and cables to be made if computers are still going to include the USB-A interface without a Micro-USB interface. There is also plenty of room on the charger for USB-A so I am thinking this is regarding the charger?s cable, which usually doesn?t come detached from the charger like Apple?s does. They really should have gone Apple?s route and made the charger use USB-A and have the cable be separate. Good ol? EU!
And? The point is that people avoid needless power adaptors, which are much more harmful to the environment. Having a plug adaptor is much much better carrying around multiple power packs.
I'm not impressed with your inability to really leave - you did say goodbye last weekend and now you're back, without even making a new handle! Lame!
I'm not impressed with your inability to really leave - you did say goodbye last weekend and now you're back, without even making a new handle! Lame!
He already received another infraction this morning for a personal attack. I don’t understand why he would do that if he wants to post under the same name.
But they might want to include a USB to miniUSB cable with their charger for it to be usable with other phones (I already use it like this).
So go from USB to mini-USB to micro-USB? That's pretty cool.
Perfect hindsight is difficult to acquire before the act.
There are quite a lot of reports of inserting a FW400 plug the wrong way into the connector, thus connecting the power pins with the data lines and consequently frying something along the data path. I have seen it myself, once somebody forces a FW400 plug the wrong way in, no extra force is needed a second time (thus easily frying a second device). The FW800 connector is much more foolproof in this respect.
I once caused $1400 damage to a video camera I own because I had FireWire ports on the back of a pc and I had to reach around the back to plug in the FireWire cable blind. Fortunately it was insured and I didn't have to pay a dime. I was pretty unhappy though. So yes FireWire 800 is a very necessary and good redesign. I won't use 400 now unless I really have to.
Different batteries require different rechargers. Larger batteries require more output from the charger in order to charge in the specified time. A charger with lower output will take longer to charge the phone. A charger with higher output for a smaller battery will still pull more current out of the wall than a smaller, properly sized charger.
When you consider that they want people to buy the charger separately, rather than have the manufacturer sell one with each phone, then the charger will cost more because of the extra packaging, shipping, shelving etc. In addition, with the small chargers used today, it doesn't do much to increase box size. but now, it will be environmentally unfriendly because of the extra packaging, shipping etc.
More than a few people won't remember to buy a charger even though they'll need it, so they'll get ticked when they get it home and realize that they have to go back to the store?costing more in polluting services.
Overall, I'm not so sure they'll see nearly the gain they think they will.
The EU comes out with these "standards" every so often without thinking it through.
This looks to be one of those times.
Some history on the 30-pin iPod connector:
This connector happened rather by accident. The original iPod was FireWire based as USB was mostly 1.1 at the time (and on the Macs, only 1.1). While USB 1.1 could charge the iPod, syncing was much slower (painfully slow...I used to have a 20GB MP3 player with USB 1.1 before the iPod came out).
When Apple wanted to make a Windows compatible version of the iPod, they needed to use USB 2.0 since most PCs had USB, but not FireWire.
Thus the 30-pin iPod connector was born...one connector that could be used for USB or FireWire, until the iPhone 3G wherein they took the FireWire away (there are adapters for this though).
So now, the 30-pin connector really only provides Apple with 2 things...lock-out with accessories (alarm clocks, stereo systems, speakers,etc...) that are made for iPod/iPhone, and of course maintaining compatibility.
But from a consumer perspective, the 30-pin connector doesn't get us anything, unless we need it for existing compatibility...of course Apple already broke some of this when they removed FireWire. For users without any existing USB based 30-pin connector accessories, they'd be better off if Apple moved away from this connector and went with Micro USB.
It will be interesting to see what Apple does here...especially if they're going to be the only ones with a unique connector (but still in spec because they have an adapter/cable). That might make them be in spec technically, but practically speaking not so much because chargers and accessories (like battery pack chargers) will be made with the standard Micro USB male end.
I