Europe is pretty great on tech rules...they make MS decouple IE from windows completely with windows 7 -- 15 years after the problem, and 6 major versions of Windows later...
and now all cell phones have to have universal plugs theres a great way to kill innovation, no matter how crunched for space someone is on space in a new handset design, it has to have micro USB so theres the minimum thinness and no matter how much the developer of the handset wants to use a newer standard down the road, tough, gotta use USB...
Look at history folks, what cabeling standard outside of CAT-5 has been widely used for consumer digital tech for more than a handfull years? I dont know whats in the pipe that could kill USB, but I dont work at IEEE, Intel or places like that.
This connector happened rather by accident. The original iPod was FireWire based as USB was mostly 1.1 at the time (and on the Macs, only 1.1). While USB 1.1 could charge the iPod, syncing was much slower (painfully slow...I used to have a 20GB MP3 player with USB 1.1 before the iPod came out).
When Apple wanted to make a Windows compatible version of the iPod, they needed to use USB 2.0 since most PCs had USB, but not FireWire.
Thus the 30-pin iPod connector was born...one connector that could be used for USB or FireWire, until the iPhone 3G wherein they took the FireWire away (there are adapters for this though).
So now, the 30-pin connector really only provides Apple with 2 things...lock-out with accessories (alarm clocks, stereo systems, speakers,etc...) that are made for iPod/iPhone, and of course maintaining compatibility.
But from a consumer perspective, the 30-pin connector doesn't get us anything, unless we need it for existing compatibility...of course Apple already broke some of this when they removed FireWire. For users without any existing USB based 30-pin connector accessories, they'd be better off if Apple moved away from this connector and went with Micro USB.
It will be interesting to see what Apple does here...especially if they're going to be the only ones with a unique connector (but still in spec because they have an adapter/cable). That might make them be in spec technically, but practically speaking not so much because chargers and accessories (like battery pack chargers) will be made with the standard Micro USB male end.
I
What of all this talk about the dock connector's superior features to the Micro USB then? From what I understand, the dock connector is great because it allows for expandability. For instance, you can play videos straight from your i-whatever to your television or what not with the dock connector. Can you do that with Micro USB?
I was also thinking about future netbooks. A netbook might be something I'd want to sync with another computer in a similar fashion to my iPhone. Would it be possible to use the 30-pin dock connector to charge (and sync) a netbook? I love the magnetic power source my MBP uses, but charging with an iPod cable would be kind of cool and a lot cheaper if I wanted to buy more than one.
o now, the 30-pin connector really only provides Apple with 2 things...lock-out with accessories (alarm clocks, stereo systems, speakers,etc...) that are made for iPod/iPhone, and of course maintaining compatibility.
You don't have to be a "socialist" to care about the environment, and it's not socialist to enact a bit of legislation to encourage common sense. Why do some people have to see things in such an unsophisticated black-and-white way? The natural extension of your argument is that we should be living in a state of anarchy. Then there wouldn't be any rules at all. Unfortunately human nature is such that society would then break down - is that really what you want? Stop throwing political names around like that - let's try and keep this debate just a bit sophisticated, please.
Did you know the word 'sarcasm' is not in the dictionary?
In other words, every problem will be solved by the free market. And if it is not solved, it by definition is not a problem. Market failure simply does not exist.
They are already cheap on every corner and we have 100 of them there to cover, Nokia, Motorola, Apple, you name it. Now they can stock 10 standardized cables so yes it does make a difference.
My phone came with a wall charger as I am sure yours did. My charger was a usb to microUSB cable and the USB end had a plug that attached to it that looked like this.
So you do create less waste because while in the past you would have had a charging cable and a data cable, now you have both in one. It is also quite convenient to just plug it into the computer too.
Bingo!
Ok, so you are as lost as I am in the specifics. Does this "standard" mean that all phones have a hardware microUSB port? Or is it saying that all phones can have whatever connector they want, so long as the end that plugs into the charger is microUSB? Nobody has clarified this.
So either Apple has committed to
A) building a microUSB port into the iPhone hardware that goes from micro to a micro wall charger and then including a micro to USB adapter for syncing or
Dock connector-to-microUSB cable that charges in a microUSB wall plug, and also including a microUSB-to-USB adapter required for syncing to a computer
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Why wasnt this imposed on all *NON*-smartphones instead? They don't need a full size USB cable because they don't plug into full size USB ports to sync!!!! This is really illogical.
What are they using to connect their smartphones to their computers now? How does this create more waste? A usb to micro-usb cable would also allow people to charge their non-Apple smartphones with the Apple charger, probably one of the "greenest" out there. And the plan is to eventually extend this standard to all phones.
Edit: To clarify, smart phones don't have full size usb ports on them, if that is what you are arguing in favor of.
I was stating a fact - computers come with full size USB ports, not micro. This new standard forces apple to include a microUSB to USB adapter to make desktop syncing possible.
To charge and sync my iPhone, I require only 2 things: iPhone-to-full size USB cable and a full size USB to wall plug.
The new standard will require 3 things: iPhone to microUSB cable, microUSB wall plug, and microUSB to full size USB adapter.
Do you see how 2 plastic things becomes 3 plastic things becomes 50 million new plastic things we didnt need before?
For those wondering why they chose micro-USB you only need to look at the phones on the market. Micro-USB is of a universal enough size that it will fit on any phone without taking up too much real-estate either on the body or the circuit board.
Now companies have agreed with this regulation, they will look to find the cheapest way to implement this solution. The work that needs to be done is with making smarter USB power adaptors that can adapt to all the voltage and signal requirements. If this becomes a sticking point then I am sure some more regulation will kick in. Just having a USB cable for my phone, for both power and data, is already a huge reduction in material, even if the other end is standard USB.
The EU comes out with these "standards" every so often without thinking it through.
This looks to be one of those times.
Curious: what other major examples of EU not thinking through standards are you thinking of?
As an aside, I wish some of the EU standards related to mobile telephony -- system-wide GSM standards, for starters -- could have been adopted in the US.
and now all cell phones have to have universal plugs theres a great way to kill innovation, no matter how crunched for space someone is on space in a new handset design, it has to have micro USB so theres the minimum thinness and no matter how much the developer of the handset wants to use a newer standard down the road, tough, gotta use USB...
Micro-USB is less than 2mm thick. Unless you are trying to plug in a piece of paper, I think you will be alright.
Ok, so you are as lost as I am in the specifics. Does this "standard" mean that all phones have a hardware microUSB port? Or is it saying that all phones can have whatever connector they want, so long as the end that plugs into the charger is microUSB? Nobody has clarified this.
Please don't be rude. I am not lost at all on this. It is clearly stated in the original post.
More specifically, the deal will see companies including Apple, Nokia and Research in Motion, develop handsets that can be charged by a standard micro-USB socket, ensuring that each phone is compatible with a standard type of phone charger.
Quote:
So either Apple has committed to
A) building a microUSB port into the iPhone hardware that goes from micro to a micro wall charger and then including a micro to USB adapter for syncing or
Dock connector-to-microUSB cable that charges in a microUSB wall plug, and also including a microUSB-to-USB adapter required for syncing to a computer
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Why wasnt this imposed on all *NON*-smartphones instead? They don't need a full size USB cable because they don't plug into full size USB ports to sync!!!! This is really illogical.
Dude, they will include a cable that has a plug on it with the appropriate source for the country and a regular USB socket on the other side. That will run to a cable that goes regular USB to microUSB. The microUSB will plug into the iPhone at some place. Apple can build both into the iPhone, or they can drop the dock. The last alternative would be a microUSB socket to dock adapter. I'm not certain that would meet the agreement but it would allow the iPhone to be charged from all those sources.
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Seems like a good time to mention the Google sync service.
I have quite a few clients who have iPhones but who NEVER sync them. One of them just dropped his into a toilet, and lost all of his contacts and calendar items.
When he got the new phone, I configured him to sync with his Google account over the air. It's an exchange server, and totally free. Outstanding - more immediate than MobileMe, actually. Changes sync literally in less than a second.
Anyone who doesn't like to plug their phone in should really look into it. There's even google calendar sync for Outlook. I wish they'd release a tool to sync contact items too... if they had that, I would cancel my MobileMe account.
I was stating a fact - computers come with full size USB ports, not micro. This new standard forces apple to include a microUSB to USB adapter to make desktop syncing possible.
To charge and sync my iPhone, I require only 2 things: iPhone-to-full size USB cable and a full size USB to wall plug.
The new standard will require 3 things: iPhone to microUSB cable, microUSB wall plug, and microUSB to full size USB adapter.
Do you see how 2 plastic things becomes 3 plastic things becomes 50 million new plastic things we didnt need before?
You stuck the microusb at the wrong end, like some others have as well. Think of any charger you have ever seen, now think about the end that plugs into the thing you are charging. That end now has to be microusb, and eventually all phones (starting with smartphones) will have to accept the plug.
If apple fully supports the spec, they will still only have to provide 2 "plastic things". If they support the spec through an adaptor, they will need 3 "plastic things". That doesn't make the spec bad.
Consider the benefits. You buy a new phone and you old charger and data cable still work, so you don't need new ones. You are out of town for an extended period of time and need to charge your phone, but you forgot your charger. Now you can borrow your wifes charger, regardless of what type of phone she has, instead of buying a new one. If you think a standard charger is a bad idea, you probably misunderstood the concept.
I don't think a dock-to-microUSB adapter is the way to go. If you have several places where you charge your iPhone you'll need adapters for all locations, unless you want to carry one around with you, which kinda sux. And I don't think Apple can afford to do away with the dock connector entirely or you lose the video & audio expansion features.
IMHO the best way is to move the microphone to a small cutout in the glass next to the Home button and put a true microUSB connector in its place.
Ok, so you are as lost as I am in the specifics. Does this "standard" mean that all phones have a hardware microUSB port? Or is it saying that all phones can have whatever connector they want, so long as the end that plugs into the charger is microUSB? Nobody has clarified this.
So either Apple has committed to
A) building a microUSB port into the iPhone hardware that goes from micro to a micro wall charger and then including a micro to USB adapter for syncing or
Dock connector-to-microUSB cable that charges in a microUSB wall plug, and also including a microUSB-to-USB adapter required for syncing to a computer
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Why wasnt this imposed on all *NON*-smartphones instead? They don't need a full size USB cable because they don't plug into full size USB ports to sync!!!! This is really illogical.
So your point is that the standard is bad because Apple won't fully support it?
If they fully supported the standard, charging and syncing would be done through microusb, not the dock. The only change between the current situation and the new situation (if they fully supported the standard) is that they would include a usb to microusb cable instead of a usb to dock connector cable.
I don't think a dock-to-microUSB adapter is the way to go. If you have several places where you charge your iPhone you'll need adapters for all locations, unless you want to carry one around with you, which kinda sux. And I don't think Apple can afford to do away with the dock connector entirely or you lose the video & audio expansion features.
IMHO the best way is to move the microphone to a small cutout in the glass next to the Home button and put a true microUSB connector in its place.
Ideally, Apple would include the port (but not by cutting a hole in the glass, there is plenty of roon on the top, bottom, or side of the iphone). Many of us just don't think they will, thus the adaptor idea.
Gee, stop acting like this was some great idea, Motorola started this movement, not to save the environment but to say their bottom line. Every phone they had at one time had a different connector on a power brick. Until they started to switch all their phones 5 years ago to the mini USB and now they use the micro USB and they still have lots of different bricks because the world especially the EU have stupid different walk plugs.
If they really want to solve the land fill problem why not make everyone rewire their wall plugs.
Personal I change my phones off my computers I rarely plug them into the wall that is why I like the USB connection.
All Apple need to do is include an adaptor which has a Female mini usb on one side and dock connector on the other. Then just pack it in with a mini usb cable. This way you can use the adaptor with any compatible mini usb charger.
I foresee adapters like these as well as docks that have both the micro usb connection and the standard Apple connector. I hope that Apple doesn't change their connector all together. That would mean a lot more waste in order to transition everyone. More money for Apple but more waste. Keep the standard connector and just add the micro usb to the dock.
Comments
and now all cell phones have to have universal plugs theres a great way to kill innovation, no matter how crunched for space someone is on space in a new handset design, it has to have micro USB so theres the minimum thinness and no matter how much the developer of the handset wants to use a newer standard down the road, tough, gotta use USB...
Look at history folks, what cabeling standard outside of CAT-5 has been widely used for consumer digital tech for more than a handfull years? I dont know whats in the pipe that could kill USB, but I dont work at IEEE, Intel or places like that.
what a joke, the EU is a tech laughing stock.
This presents a rather weird situation.
Some history on the 30-pin iPod connector:
This connector happened rather by accident. The original iPod was FireWire based as USB was mostly 1.1 at the time (and on the Macs, only 1.1). While USB 1.1 could charge the iPod, syncing was much slower (painfully slow...I used to have a 20GB MP3 player with USB 1.1 before the iPod came out).
When Apple wanted to make a Windows compatible version of the iPod, they needed to use USB 2.0 since most PCs had USB, but not FireWire.
Thus the 30-pin iPod connector was born...one connector that could be used for USB or FireWire, until the iPhone 3G wherein they took the FireWire away (there are adapters for this though).
So now, the 30-pin connector really only provides Apple with 2 things...lock-out with accessories (alarm clocks, stereo systems, speakers,etc...) that are made for iPod/iPhone, and of course maintaining compatibility.
But from a consumer perspective, the 30-pin connector doesn't get us anything, unless we need it for existing compatibility...of course Apple already broke some of this when they removed FireWire. For users without any existing USB based 30-pin connector accessories, they'd be better off if Apple moved away from this connector and went with Micro USB.
It will be interesting to see what Apple does here...especially if they're going to be the only ones with a unique connector (but still in spec because they have an adapter/cable). That might make them be in spec technically, but practically speaking not so much because chargers and accessories (like battery pack chargers) will be made with the standard Micro USB male end.
I
What of all this talk about the dock connector's superior features to the Micro USB then? From what I understand, the dock connector is great because it allows for expandability. For instance, you can play videos straight from your i-whatever to your television or what not with the dock connector. Can you do that with Micro USB?
I was also thinking about future netbooks. A netbook might be something I'd want to sync with another computer in a similar fashion to my iPhone. Would it be possible to use the 30-pin dock connector to charge (and sync) a netbook? I love the magnetic power source my MBP uses, but charging with an iPod cable would be kind of cool and a lot cheaper if I wanted to buy more than one.
This presents a rather weird situation.
o now, the 30-pin connector really only provides Apple with 2 things...lock-out with accessories (alarm clocks, stereo systems, speakers,etc...) that are made for iPod/iPhone, and of course maintaining compatibility.
I
Well all of that and:
Audio & Video out (component and composite)
Who has stakes in mini USB. Are they made in Europe or something
Erm... that'll be Intel then.
You don't have to be a "socialist" to care about the environment, and it's not socialist to enact a bit of legislation to encourage common sense. Why do some people have to see things in such an unsophisticated black-and-white way? The natural extension of your argument is that we should be living in a state of anarchy. Then there wouldn't be any rules at all. Unfortunately human nature is such that society would then break down - is that really what you want? Stop throwing political names around like that - let's try and keep this debate just a bit sophisticated, please.
Did you know the word 'sarcasm' is not in the dictionary?
Relax - it was a joke.
In other words, every problem will be solved by the free market. And if it is not solved, it by definition is not a problem. Market failure simply does not exist.
So how do you explain Microsoft?
a picture of mini USB (left) compared to micro USB (right)...
They are already cheap on every corner and we have 100 of them there to cover, Nokia, Motorola, Apple, you name it. Now they can stock 10 standardized cables so yes it does make a difference.
My phone came with a wall charger as I am sure yours did. My charger was a usb to microUSB cable and the USB end had a plug that attached to it that looked like this.
So you do create less waste because while in the past you would have had a charging cable and a data cable, now you have both in one. It is also quite convenient to just plug it into the computer too.
Bingo!
Ok, so you are as lost as I am in the specifics. Does this "standard" mean that all phones have a hardware microUSB port? Or is it saying that all phones can have whatever connector they want, so long as the end that plugs into the charger is microUSB? Nobody has clarified this.
So either Apple has committed to
A) building a microUSB port into the iPhone hardware that goes from micro to a micro wall charger and then including a micro to USB adapter for syncing or
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Why wasnt this imposed on all *NON*-smartphones instead? They don't need a full size USB cable because they don't plug into full size USB ports to sync!!!! This is really illogical.
What are they using to connect their smartphones to their computers now? How does this create more waste? A usb to micro-usb cable would also allow people to charge their non-Apple smartphones with the Apple charger, probably one of the "greenest" out there. And the plan is to eventually extend this standard to all phones.
Edit: To clarify, smart phones don't have full size usb ports on them, if that is what you are arguing in favor of.
I was stating a fact - computers come with full size USB ports, not micro. This new standard forces apple to include a microUSB to USB adapter to make desktop syncing possible.
To charge and sync my iPhone, I require only 2 things: iPhone-to-full size USB cable and a full size USB to wall plug.
The new standard will require 3 things: iPhone to microUSB cable, microUSB wall plug, and microUSB to full size USB adapter.
Do you see how 2 plastic things becomes 3 plastic things becomes 50 million new plastic things we didnt need before?
Now companies have agreed with this regulation, they will look to find the cheapest way to implement this solution. The work that needs to be done is with making smarter USB power adaptors that can adapt to all the voltage and signal requirements. If this becomes a sticking point then I am sure some more regulation will kick in. Just having a USB cable for my phone, for both power and data, is already a huge reduction in material, even if the other end is standard USB.
The EU comes out with these "standards" every so often without thinking it through.
This looks to be one of those times.
Curious: what other major examples of EU not thinking through standards are you thinking of?
As an aside, I wish some of the EU standards related to mobile telephony -- system-wide GSM standards, for starters -- could have been adopted in the US.
and now all cell phones have to have universal plugs theres a great way to kill innovation, no matter how crunched for space someone is on space in a new handset design, it has to have micro USB so theres the minimum thinness and no matter how much the developer of the handset wants to use a newer standard down the road, tough, gotta use USB...
Micro-USB is less than 2mm thick. Unless you are trying to plug in a piece of paper, I think you will be alright.
Ok, so you are as lost as I am in the specifics. Does this "standard" mean that all phones have a hardware microUSB port? Or is it saying that all phones can have whatever connector they want, so long as the end that plugs into the charger is microUSB? Nobody has clarified this.
Please don't be rude. I am not lost at all on this. It is clearly stated in the original post.
More specifically, the deal will see companies including Apple, Nokia and Research in Motion, develop handsets that can be charged by a standard micro-USB socket, ensuring that each phone is compatible with a standard type of phone charger.
So either Apple has committed to
A) building a microUSB port into the iPhone hardware that goes from micro to a micro wall charger and then including a micro to USB adapter for syncing or
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Why wasnt this imposed on all *NON*-smartphones instead? They don't need a full size USB cable because they don't plug into full size USB ports to sync!!!! This is really illogical.
Dude, they will include a cable that has a plug on it with the appropriate source for the country and a regular USB socket on the other side. That will run to a cable that goes regular USB to microUSB. The microUSB will plug into the iPhone at some place. Apple can build both into the iPhone, or they can drop the dock. The last alternative would be a microUSB socket to dock adapter. I'm not certain that would meet the agreement but it would allow the iPhone to be charged from all those sources.
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Seems like a good time to mention the Google sync service.
I have quite a few clients who have iPhones but who NEVER sync them. One of them just dropped his into a toilet, and lost all of his contacts and calendar items.
When he got the new phone, I configured him to sync with his Google account over the air. It's an exchange server, and totally free. Outstanding - more immediate than MobileMe, actually. Changes sync literally in less than a second.
Anyone who doesn't like to plug their phone in should really look into it. There's even google calendar sync for Outlook. I wish they'd release a tool to sync contact items too... if they had that, I would cancel my MobileMe account.
I was stating a fact - computers come with full size USB ports, not micro. This new standard forces apple to include a microUSB to USB adapter to make desktop syncing possible.
To charge and sync my iPhone, I require only 2 things: iPhone-to-full size USB cable and a full size USB to wall plug.
The new standard will require 3 things: iPhone to microUSB cable, microUSB wall plug, and microUSB to full size USB adapter.
Do you see how 2 plastic things becomes 3 plastic things becomes 50 million new plastic things we didnt need before?
You stuck the microusb at the wrong end, like some others have as well. Think of any charger you have ever seen, now think about the end that plugs into the thing you are charging. That end now has to be microusb, and eventually all phones (starting with smartphones) will have to accept the plug.
If apple fully supports the spec, they will still only have to provide 2 "plastic things". If they support the spec through an adaptor, they will need 3 "plastic things". That doesn't make the spec bad.
Consider the benefits. You buy a new phone and you old charger and data cable still work, so you don't need new ones. You are out of town for an extended period of time and need to charge your phone, but you forgot your charger. Now you can borrow your wifes charger, regardless of what type of phone she has, instead of buying a new one. If you think a standard charger is a bad idea, you probably misunderstood the concept.
IMHO the best way is to move the microphone to a small cutout in the glass next to the Home button and put a true microUSB connector in its place.
Ok, so you are as lost as I am in the specifics. Does this "standard" mean that all phones have a hardware microUSB port? Or is it saying that all phones can have whatever connector they want, so long as the end that plugs into the charger is microUSB? Nobody has clarified this.
So either Apple has committed to
A) building a microUSB port into the iPhone hardware that goes from micro to a micro wall charger and then including a micro to USB adapter for syncing or
My point was that in either case, Apple is now required to include a microUSB to full sized USB adapter for syncing. Therefor in all scenarios, this is producing more waste and more expense for Apple. Smarphones all sync to computers!
Why wasnt this imposed on all *NON*-smartphones instead? They don't need a full size USB cable because they don't plug into full size USB ports to sync!!!! This is really illogical.
So your point is that the standard is bad because Apple won't fully support it?
If they fully supported the standard, charging and syncing would be done through microusb, not the dock. The only change between the current situation and the new situation (if they fully supported the standard) is that they would include a usb to microusb cable instead of a usb to dock connector cable.
I don't think a dock-to-microUSB adapter is the way to go. If you have several places where you charge your iPhone you'll need adapters for all locations, unless you want to carry one around with you, which kinda sux. And I don't think Apple can afford to do away with the dock connector entirely or you lose the video & audio expansion features.
IMHO the best way is to move the microphone to a small cutout in the glass next to the Home button and put a true microUSB connector in its place.
Ideally, Apple would include the port (but not by cutting a hole in the glass, there is plenty of roon on the top, bottom, or side of the iphone). Many of us just don't think they will, thus the adaptor idea.
Edit: Sorry for the double post.
If they really want to solve the land fill problem why not make everyone rewire their wall plugs.
Personal I change my phones off my computers I rarely plug them into the wall that is why I like the USB connection.
All Apple need to do is include an adaptor which has a Female mini usb on one side and dock connector on the other. Then just pack it in with a mini usb cable. This way you can use the adaptor with any compatible mini usb charger.
I foresee adapters like these as well as docks that have both the micro usb connection and the standard Apple connector. I hope that Apple doesn't change their connector all together. That would mean a lot more waste in order to transition everyone. More money for Apple but more waste. Keep the standard connector and just add the micro usb to the dock.