I myself have two weird - aaaah, sorry - proprietary Nokia and Sony chargers floating around in the garage. Can't use them for anything else than the retired phones.
Interestingly, the Nokia charger was a fairly de-facto standard in the UK for a while. Everyone had one, and other devices started using them too. (A friend of mine had a wireless mouse that used a Nokia charger). If you had a Nokia phone, chances are you'd always be able to find someone with a compatible charger wherever you went.
However, I'm very glad of the push for an actual standard like this. I really hope the iPhone actually gets a micro-USB port added, next to its Dock connector, rather than just an adaptor. Doubt it though
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
To my ears that sounds like Apple will be introducing a $19 "universal phone charger adaptor". Apple including it for free is serious wishful thinking.
I think that the new standard would require they bundle it for free. They wouldn't be compliant if they merely sold it as an extra.
You hit the nail on the head, but this is not indicative to all Apple product users. Just the majority in this forum. Melgross, and Solpism do not fall into this category. You have very reasonable debates with them I find.
Sorry if I came out stating "all Apple users" (I'm one as well). Not the intent, sorry. I realise it's an Apple fan forum and that most user's aren't as one-eyed as some here. It just baffled me that a standard that is proposed by practically all phone vendors (endorsed by EU) would cause 100+ posts claiming it's a bad idea to have a universal charger. Seems like the only reasons were, that it wasn't Apple's idea and it's endorsed by EU. I'm still dumbfounded by how some allow themselves to be blinded by fanatical fandom.
I for one have seen the benefits of a univeral charger. The Nokia charging plug is the de-facto standard that you can fairly easily find while "out there". On my travels around the world (my work takes me around 6-10 times/year), the only place I may ever have had a problem finding a charger to borrow is in the US and Canada. It's saved my behind on several occasions. It also helps to have only two simple plugs (standard+miniturized) for all phone models for over 10 years running to achieve de-facto standardism. Now we have an even better chance to get a truly global charger standard for our mobile devices and it'll just make things better for all of us!
Isn't that a bit thick? Standardisation of a power socket (as in this case) would limit technology? Come on, give it a rest. Yes this standard was not devised by Apple, but even Apple seems to acknowledge that it's a good standard by adopting it. It even has a plausible chance of making many phone vendor forego a second "data" port and use one port for data and charging, thus saving the environment and the users a lot of hassle.
Will this stop wireless charging development? Why would it? Will it stop data connectivity development? Why would it? Will it make consumers lives easier by allowing cross-vendor charger compatibility? YES!
It's incredible how such a clearly beneficial standard for most users causes 100+ comments just because it wasn't devised by Apple and/or was by the E.U (epitomy of socialism for some).
Regs, Jarkko
I've read that those sockets in the house for electricity are standardized as well and look what a mess that has made for industry!
Isn't that a bit thick? Standardisation of a power socket (as in this case) would limit technology?
Yes, when USB3 provides higher data rates AND power. IF you're mandating that a connector MUST be on a phone. Whether that connector is obsolescent or not.
Fortunately USB3 micro looks to be compatible with USB2 micro if a little awkward and it's not a required standard anyway.
Sorry if I came out stating "all Apple users" (I'm one as well). Not the intent, sorry. I realise it's an Apple fan forum and that most user's aren't as one-eyed as some here. It just baffled me that a standard that is proposed by practically all phone vendors (endorsed by EU) would cause 100+ posts claiming it's a bad idea to have a universal charger. Seems like the only reasons were, that it wasn't Apple's idea and it's endorsed by EU. I'm still dumbfounded by how some allow themselves to be blinded by fanatical fandom.
I for one have seen the benefits of a univeral charger. The Nokia charging plug is the de-facto standard that you can fairly easily find while "out there". On my travels around the world (my work takes me around 6-10 times/year), the only place I may ever have had a problem finding a charger to borrow is in the US and Canada. It's saved my behind on several occasions. It also helps to have only two simple plugs (standard+miniturized) for all phone models for over 10 years running to achieve de-facto standardism. Now we have an even better chance to get a truly global charger standard for our mobile devices and it'll just make things better for all of us!
Regs, Jarkko
Moro, moro Jarkko,
My point exactly. When I travel now, I simply take my CA-126, and I am set. I can connect to my phone and charge a headset at the same time. Not to mention doing just a bit for the environment. How Socialistic of me, not to mention that the idea of a unified charger didn't come from Apple first, so it can't be that good.
I don't think anyone is against the general idea of having a standard phone charger. They should have done that long ago. I think they are critical of this specific plan. Also critical of people of who call for Apple to abandon it's highly successful dock connector. You cannot be mad at Apple for having the forsight to create a proprietary connector that has been proven so successful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
Sorry if I came out stating "all Apple users" (I'm one as well). Not the intent, sorry. I realise it's an Apple fan forum and that most user's aren't as one-eyed as some here. It just baffled me that a standard that is proposed by practically all phone vendors (endorsed by EU) would cause 100+ posts claiming it's a bad idea to have a universal charger. Seems like the only reasons were, that it wasn't Apple's idea and it's endorsed by EU. I'm still dumbfounded by how some allow themselves to be blinded by fanatical fandom.
Oh, and for you guys complaining about the "EU" being stupid, this is not an EU directive! Read the article carefully, you will notice it says "EU backed". This is the manufacturers doing it off their own back (with some EU encouragement), the manufactures came up with the standard! (see this article)
Ah, my bad. All the other sites are reporting it as a "EU Mandate".
Quote:
You are massively overstating the potential drawbacks of this idea.
Actually, I'm massively overstating what the agreement is. Which turns out to be nothing since it's non-binding and can be met with an adapter. Which is why Apple agreed to sign on. It's nothing more than a PR move.
But if you WERE going to mandate something then USB3 is the way to go and you do so by mandating the chargers all provide a full sized USB3 connector port.
But if you WERE going to mandate something then USB3 is the way to go and you do so by mandating the chargers all provide a full sized USB3 connector port.
USB 3 will happen when it happens and will be backwards compatible with USB 2. Why would manufacturers voluntarily take on the extra cost early? How could the EU mandate they use USB 3 when every other industry doesn't have to use it? Those devices are just as likely to end up in landfill. Furthermore, a USB 3 charger with a micro usb port would meet this new standard given its backwards compatibility. In the meantime, chargers will still be made and tossed when a universal standard is finally adopted. At least the USB 2 chargers will still work when USB 3 comes out (unlike the various proprietary chargers which will be obselete).
Your solution would also not be universal, as you would still have to supply the correct cable (of course meeting this standard with an adaptor amounts to the same thing). For a universal solution, you have to control the end that is plugging into the phone.
Your suggestion could be used in addition to the standard the manufacturers agreed upon, but it would not replace it (ie. all phones must be able to accept a micro usb plug and all chargers will feature a full size usb port, sold with or without the usb to micro usb cable).
I for one have seen the benefits of a univeral charger. The Nokia charging plug is the de-facto standard that you can fairly easily find while "out there". On my travels around the world (my work takes me around 6-10 times/year), the only place I may ever have had a problem finding a charger to borrow is in the US and Canada. It's saved my behind on several occasions. It also helps to have only two simple plugs (standard+miniturized) for all phone models for over 10 years running to achieve de-facto standardism. Now we have an even better chance to get a truly global charger standard for our mobile devices and it'll just make things better for all of us!
Sadly the Nokia example actually demonstrate how much this is needed. Although they often use the same plug for handsets, the voltage the phones require has changed often. If you actually look at the embossed print on the charger you will find that they are different - recent examples include 3.7v and 5.0v. I have had a number of experiences of people claiming that their phone battery doesn't hold its charge anymore only to find that they have been using a 3.7v charger on a phone which requires 5.0v, even though the connectors are identical.
The main thing that amazes me about the comments here is how many people oppose this clearly sensible proposal simply on the political grounds that it is endorsed by the EU and smacks to them of "socialism". This is such a blinkered approach to the world, but is typical of when political dogma is allowed to run roughshod over common sense. Please try and cut out the political dogma, people, and open your minds instead!
I've read that those sockets in the house for electricity are standardized as well and look what a mess that has made for industry!
Yep. And a whole new industry at that for travellers!
I've been glad that RJ-11, RJ-45 and Wi-Fi are de-facto global standards for networking nowdays so I don't have to carry multiple phone wall adaptors for my V.24bis modem!
Could we get Apple to propose a new 360 Volt power socket (not US or EU voltage to be on the safe side) and get it to become a world standard? It must be made to have at least 5 connectors (2 phases, ground + 2 spare for just in case we need an additional phase and something else). That would be truly great and get tons of support!
Yes, when USB3 provides higher data rates AND power. IF you're mandating that a connector MUST be on a phone. Whether that connector is obsolescent or not.
Fortunately USB3 micro looks to be compatible with USB2 micro if a little awkward and it's not a required standard anyway.
If I read the spec correctly, it mandates the charger and the phone to fulfill USB 2.0 requirements. I didn't see (may mean I'm blind as well) any mention, that they couldn't be 3.0 compliant as well as long as they support 2.0. So am I missing something (quite possible)? Also they are aware of USB 3.0, they just don't want to enforce new tech, when it's not required (for charging that is). Here's a quote directly from the spec: "USB 3.0 will also be considered in future versions of this document."
Here's the spec BTW so people don't have to guess at things. It allows for up to 900mA of current (USB 3 levels) at the current Spec revision:
And another BTW: The cable must be detachable from the charger and is recommended to be of USB A type that goes also directly into a PCs USB port.
Respect! Just shows how poor the reporting of this has been - I haven't seen this key fact stated ANYWHERE and personally I see this as one of the best and most significant aspects of the proposal. In fact the requirement for a USB-A type connector on the charger is right up-front in the proposal, together with a requirement for chargers to be high efficiency, low no-load devices. It also says "User should be able to charge their (device) whilst using the same connector for data transfer to/from PC"
Clearly it will now be a no-brainer for Apple to support this proposal - they already do, particularly given that the proposal provides for non-compliance at one end (but presumably not both) of the cable if there is a very good reason.
There is also a picture on page 12 of the proposal that very clearly shows a charger with a USB-A connector on it, a cable with a USB-A connector on one end and a USB micro-B connector on the other, and a mobile phone with a USB micro connector on it.
Respect! Just shows how poor the reporting of this has been - I haven't seen this key fact stated ANYWHERE
Naah. That would require bloggers and reporters to actually work instead of cutting and pasting press releases and other reporter's texts.
I was actually expecting someone in the community to have done the 10 minutes of Googling and reading of the spec that it took to find out the facts. But I guess I also fall into that latter category myself. But isn't it surprising how many posts it takes for someone to actually go and look for the facts? I propably wouldn't have if the discussion hadn't been so long and started to repeat itself.
So here it (+ some other stuff) is in a nutshell:
The phone vendors and their Open Mobile Terminal Platform initiative has defined a Universal Charging Solution (UCS), which requires:
a) Micro-USB connector on the phone
b) USB-A connector on the charger
c) Up to 900mA of current (as per USB 3.0 spec)
d) Full USB 2.0 compliance
e) The vendors have pledged to be compliant by Jan 1st 2012
The extras:
f) EU has endorsed it and will become an EU norm
g) Endorsed by the US CTIA (does that help the acceptance on this forum at all?)
h) If the vendors hadn't done it themselves, the EU would have created such a standard and enforced it
i) EU is looking for similar standards for ALL portable devices, including laptops, but the scope and timetable is still open.
Naah. That would require bloggers and reporters to actually work instead of cutting and pasting press releases and other reporter's texts.
I was actually expecting someone in the community to have done the 10 minutes of Googling and reading of the spec that it took to find out the facts. But I guess I also fall into that latter category myself. But isn't it surprising how many posts it takes for someone to actually go and look for the facts? I propably wouldn't have if the discussion hadn't been so long and started to repeat itself.
So here it (+ some other stuff) is in a nutshell:
The phone vendors and their Open Mobile Terminal Platform initiative has defined a Universal Charging Solution (UCS), which requires:
a) Micro-USB connector on the phone
b) USB-A connector on the charger
c) Up to 900mA of current (as per USB 3.0 spec)
d) Full USB 2.0 compliance
e) The vendors have pledged to be compliant by Jan 1st 2012
The extras:
f) EU has endorsed it and will become an EU norm
g) Endorsed by the US CTIA (does that help the acceptance on this forum at all?)
h) If the vendors hadn't done it themselves, the EU would have created such a standard and enforced it
i) EU is looking for similar standards for ALL portable devices, including laptops, but the scope and timetable is still open.
Regs, Jarkko
Thanks for the extra info. Shame so-called journalists couldn't do what you did.
While that might be a rationale, it is disingenuous to suggest that such integration uses would not be possible under the USB standard. One of the examples was the game controller. There is nothing to preclude the use of the USB connector in achieving a similar aim. How else are the many games controllers connected to a PC?
What evidence do you have for that? PC games controllers are simpler.
It's pretty clear that the industry doesn't agree with you, otherwise they wouldn't have made such a big deal over licensing Apple's connector.
Whilst this is true, the difference in efficiency will be very small. It's more in the raw materials that savings could be made with smaller chargers requiring smaller magnetic components and transistors. But the difference isn't that huge if you compare a 100 mA rated switch mode PSU to a 1 A one.
There won't be any less rechargers in use after this goes into effect, and there will continue to be just as many plugged in all the time, likely more over time. It does add up. Plugged in chargers are as much of a problem s dumping used ones are.
They could always have reclaiming boxes for old rechargers. The Japanese have battery dumping boxes on the street. For small devices such as cellphone batteries and other batteries this works well. I see no reason why it wouldn't work for chargers. That would solve the landfill dumping problem they're so worried about. Reclaiming electronics is getting better all the time.
It seems to me that designing chargers that drop their current draw to almost nothing until the device is plugged in would help a great deal. Right now, virtually no chargers do that, so they are powered all the time, though not delivering the amount of current the device needs. It's still considered to be too much. There are some spectacular numbers about how much current these things draw.
In addition (and I pretty much totally agree with Mr H.'s points) I don't know if any of you have tested a power brick recently. All the recent ones I have tested use essentially no power when they are not actually charging something. So this problem has already been addressed.
That's not true. Few chargers can power down when not being used. Current still flows through the charger. The only difference is that they aren't delivering the output to the device.
I have lots of wall huggers, and the most recent aren't drawing any less power than the older ones. That's assuming like for like.
The transformer based models consume more power when the device isn't plugged into them than do the electronic models. But all that I've tested do consume enough current so that when they're added together in the tens and hundreds of millions, there is significant power being wasted.
The main thing that amazes me about the comments here is how many people oppose this clearly sensible proposal simply on the political grounds that it is endorsed by the EU and smacks to them of "socialism". This is such a blinkered approach to the world, but is typical of when political dogma is allowed to run roughshod over common sense. Please try and cut out the political dogma, people, and open your minds instead!
I don't oppose the concept. And I don't care if it's socialism or not.
I just feel that it hasn't been thought out enough. There will be effects that haven't been taken into account. I think they should have taken some more time with this.
What is happening, is that the industry is fearing a EU mandated situation here, and they're trying to come out with something that isn't as strict before that happens. I've seen this occur many times over the years both here and there. It looks as though it worked for now.
It's even been stated that if this agreement hadn't been come to, and mandate would have been imposed.
I'm concerned about the one size fits all philosophy here for one thing. And I wonder if it's really possible to calculate how many units they will really be saving
I understand the enthusiasm, I'm just not so sure it will work out the way they think.
Comments
I myself have two weird - aaaah, sorry - proprietary Nokia and Sony chargers floating around in the garage. Can't use them for anything else than the retired phones.
Interestingly, the Nokia charger was a fairly de-facto standard in the UK for a while. Everyone had one, and other devices started using them too. (A friend of mine had a wireless mouse that used a Nokia charger). If you had a Nokia phone, chances are you'd always be able to find someone with a compatible charger wherever you went.
However, I'm very glad of the push for an actual standard like this. I really hope the iPhone actually gets a micro-USB port added, next to its Dock connector, rather than just an adaptor. Doubt it though
To my ears that sounds like Apple will be introducing a $19 "universal phone charger adaptor". Apple including it for free is serious wishful thinking.
I think that the new standard would require they bundle it for free. They wouldn't be compliant if they merely sold it as an extra.
Amorya
You hit the nail on the head, but this is not indicative to all Apple product users. Just the majority in this forum. Melgross, and Solpism do not fall into this category. You have very reasonable debates with them I find.
Sorry if I came out stating "all Apple users" (I'm one as well). Not the intent, sorry. I realise it's an Apple fan forum and that most user's aren't as one-eyed as some here. It just baffled me that a standard that is proposed by practically all phone vendors (endorsed by EU) would cause 100+ posts claiming it's a bad idea to have a universal charger. Seems like the only reasons were, that it wasn't Apple's idea and it's endorsed by EU. I'm still dumbfounded by how some allow themselves to be blinded by fanatical fandom.
I for one have seen the benefits of a univeral charger. The Nokia charging plug is the de-facto standard that you can fairly easily find while "out there". On my travels around the world (my work takes me around 6-10 times/year), the only place I may ever have had a problem finding a charger to borrow is in the US and Canada. It's saved my behind on several occasions. It also helps to have only two simple plugs (standard+miniturized) for all phone models for over 10 years running to achieve de-facto standardism. Now we have an even better chance to get a truly global charger standard for our mobile devices and it'll just make things better for all of us!
Regs, Jarkko
Isn't that a bit thick? Standardisation of a power socket (as in this case) would limit technology? Come on, give it a rest. Yes this standard was not devised by Apple, but even Apple seems to acknowledge that it's a good standard by adopting it. It even has a plausible chance of making many phone vendor forego a second "data" port and use one port for data and charging, thus saving the environment and the users a lot of hassle.
Will this stop wireless charging development? Why would it? Will it stop data connectivity development? Why would it? Will it make consumers lives easier by allowing cross-vendor charger compatibility? YES!
It's incredible how such a clearly beneficial standard for most users causes 100+ comments just because it wasn't devised by Apple and/or was by the E.U (epitomy of socialism for some).
Regs, Jarkko
I've read that those sockets in the house for electricity are standardized as well and look what a mess that has made for industry!
Isn't that a bit thick? Standardisation of a power socket (as in this case) would limit technology?
Yes, when USB3 provides higher data rates AND power. IF you're mandating that a connector MUST be on a phone. Whether that connector is obsolescent or not.
Fortunately USB3 micro looks to be compatible with USB2 micro if a little awkward and it's not a required standard anyway.
Sorry if I came out stating "all Apple users" (I'm one as well). Not the intent, sorry. I realise it's an Apple fan forum and that most user's aren't as one-eyed as some here. It just baffled me that a standard that is proposed by practically all phone vendors (endorsed by EU) would cause 100+ posts claiming it's a bad idea to have a universal charger. Seems like the only reasons were, that it wasn't Apple's idea and it's endorsed by EU. I'm still dumbfounded by how some allow themselves to be blinded by fanatical fandom.
I for one have seen the benefits of a univeral charger. The Nokia charging plug is the de-facto standard that you can fairly easily find while "out there". On my travels around the world (my work takes me around 6-10 times/year), the only place I may ever have had a problem finding a charger to borrow is in the US and Canada. It's saved my behind on several occasions. It also helps to have only two simple plugs (standard+miniturized) for all phone models for over 10 years running to achieve de-facto standardism. Now we have an even better chance to get a truly global charger standard for our mobile devices and it'll just make things better for all of us!
Regs, Jarkko
Moro, moro Jarkko,
My point exactly. When I travel now, I simply take my CA-126, and I am set. I can connect to my phone and charge a headset at the same time. Not to mention doing just a bit for the environment. How Socialistic of me, not to mention that the idea of a unified charger didn't come from Apple first, so it can't be that good.
Sorry if I came out stating "all Apple users" (I'm one as well). Not the intent, sorry. I realise it's an Apple fan forum and that most user's aren't as one-eyed as some here. It just baffled me that a standard that is proposed by practically all phone vendors (endorsed by EU) would cause 100+ posts claiming it's a bad idea to have a universal charger. Seems like the only reasons were, that it wasn't Apple's idea and it's endorsed by EU. I'm still dumbfounded by how some allow themselves to be blinded by fanatical fandom.
Regs, Jarkko
Oh, and for you guys complaining about the "EU" being stupid, this is not an EU directive! Read the article carefully, you will notice it says "EU backed". This is the manufacturers doing it off their own back (with some EU encouragement), the manufactures came up with the standard! (see this article)
Ah, my bad. All the other sites are reporting it as a "EU Mandate".
You are massively overstating the potential drawbacks of this idea.
Actually, I'm massively overstating what the agreement is. Which turns out to be nothing since it's non-binding and can be met with an adapter. Which is why Apple agreed to sign on. It's nothing more than a PR move.
But if you WERE going to mandate something then USB3 is the way to go and you do so by mandating the chargers all provide a full sized USB3 connector port.
But if you WERE going to mandate something then USB3 is the way to go and you do so by mandating the chargers all provide a full sized USB3 connector port.
USB 3 will happen when it happens and will be backwards compatible with USB 2. Why would manufacturers voluntarily take on the extra cost early? How could the EU mandate they use USB 3 when every other industry doesn't have to use it? Those devices are just as likely to end up in landfill. Furthermore, a USB 3 charger with a micro usb port would meet this new standard given its backwards compatibility. In the meantime, chargers will still be made and tossed when a universal standard is finally adopted. At least the USB 2 chargers will still work when USB 3 comes out (unlike the various proprietary chargers which will be obselete).
Your solution would also not be universal, as you would still have to supply the correct cable (of course meeting this standard with an adaptor amounts to the same thing). For a universal solution, you have to control the end that is plugging into the phone.
Your suggestion could be used in addition to the standard the manufacturers agreed upon, but it would not replace it (ie. all phones must be able to accept a micro usb plug and all chargers will feature a full size usb port, sold with or without the usb to micro usb cable).
I for one have seen the benefits of a univeral charger. The Nokia charging plug is the de-facto standard that you can fairly easily find while "out there". On my travels around the world (my work takes me around 6-10 times/year), the only place I may ever have had a problem finding a charger to borrow is in the US and Canada. It's saved my behind on several occasions. It also helps to have only two simple plugs (standard+miniturized) for all phone models for over 10 years running to achieve de-facto standardism. Now we have an even better chance to get a truly global charger standard for our mobile devices and it'll just make things better for all of us!
Sadly the Nokia example actually demonstrate how much this is needed. Although they often use the same plug for handsets, the voltage the phones require has changed often. If you actually look at the embossed print on the charger you will find that they are different - recent examples include 3.7v and 5.0v. I have had a number of experiences of people claiming that their phone battery doesn't hold its charge anymore only to find that they have been using a 3.7v charger on a phone which requires 5.0v, even though the connectors are identical.
I've read that those sockets in the house for electricity are standardized as well and look what a mess that has made for industry!
Yep. And a whole new industry at that for travellers!
I've been glad that RJ-11, RJ-45 and Wi-Fi are de-facto global standards for networking nowdays so I don't have to carry multiple phone wall adaptors for my V.24bis modem!
Could we get Apple to propose a new 360 Volt power socket (not US or EU voltage to be on the safe side) and get it to become a world standard? It must be made to have at least 5 connectors (2 phases, ground + 2 spare for just in case we need an additional phase and something else). That would be truly great and get tons of support!
Regs, Jarkko
Yes, when USB3 provides higher data rates AND power. IF you're mandating that a connector MUST be on a phone. Whether that connector is obsolescent or not.
Fortunately USB3 micro looks to be compatible with USB2 micro if a little awkward and it's not a required standard anyway.
If I read the spec correctly, it mandates the charger and the phone to fulfill USB 2.0 requirements. I didn't see (may mean I'm blind as well) any mention, that they couldn't be 3.0 compliant as well as long as they support 2.0. So am I missing something (quite possible)? Also they are aware of USB 3.0, they just don't want to enforce new tech, when it's not required (for charging that is). Here's a quote directly from the spec: "USB 3.0 will also be considered in future versions of this document."
Here's the spec BTW so people don't have to guess at things. It allows for up to 900mA of current (USB 3 levels) at the current Spec revision:
http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPub...ity%20v1.0.pdf
And another BTW: The cable must be detachable from the charger and is recommended to be of USB A type that goes also directly into a PCs USB port.
Regs, Jarkko
And another BTW: The cable must be detachable from the charger and is recommended to be of USB A type that goes also directly into a PCs USB port.
Respect! Just shows how poor the reporting of this has been - I haven't seen this key fact stated ANYWHERE and personally I see this as one of the best and most significant aspects of the proposal. In fact the requirement for a USB-A type connector on the charger is right up-front in the proposal, together with a requirement for chargers to be high efficiency, low no-load devices. It also says "User should be able to charge their (device) whilst using the same connector for data transfer to/from PC"
Clearly it will now be a no-brainer for Apple to support this proposal - they already do, particularly given that the proposal provides for non-compliance at one end (but presumably not both) of the cable if there is a very good reason.
There is also a picture on page 12 of the proposal that very clearly shows a charger with a USB-A connector on it, a cable with a USB-A connector on one end and a USB micro-B connector on the other, and a mobile phone with a USB micro connector on it.
Respect! Just shows how poor the reporting of this has been - I haven't seen this key fact stated ANYWHERE
Naah. That would require bloggers and reporters to actually work instead of cutting and pasting press releases and other reporter's texts.
I was actually expecting someone in the community to have done the 10 minutes of Googling and reading of the spec that it took to find out the facts. But I guess I also fall into that latter category myself. But isn't it surprising how many posts it takes for someone to actually go and look for the facts? I propably wouldn't have if the discussion hadn't been so long and started to repeat itself.
So here it (+ some other stuff) is in a nutshell:
The phone vendors and their Open Mobile Terminal Platform initiative has defined a Universal Charging Solution (UCS), which requires:
a) Micro-USB connector on the phone
b) USB-A connector on the charger
c) Up to 900mA of current (as per USB 3.0 spec)
d) Full USB 2.0 compliance
e) The vendors have pledged to be compliant by Jan 1st 2012
The extras:
f) EU has endorsed it and will become an EU norm
g) Endorsed by the US CTIA (does that help the acceptance on this forum at all?)
h) If the vendors hadn't done it themselves, the EU would have created such a standard and enforced it
i) EU is looking for similar standards for ALL portable devices, including laptops, but the scope and timetable is still open.
Regs, Jarkko
Naah. That would require bloggers and reporters to actually work instead of cutting and pasting press releases and other reporter's texts.
I was actually expecting someone in the community to have done the 10 minutes of Googling and reading of the spec that it took to find out the facts. But I guess I also fall into that latter category myself. But isn't it surprising how many posts it takes for someone to actually go and look for the facts? I propably wouldn't have if the discussion hadn't been so long and started to repeat itself.
So here it (+ some other stuff) is in a nutshell:
The phone vendors and their Open Mobile Terminal Platform initiative has defined a Universal Charging Solution (UCS), which requires:
a) Micro-USB connector on the phone
b) USB-A connector on the charger
c) Up to 900mA of current (as per USB 3.0 spec)
d) Full USB 2.0 compliance
e) The vendors have pledged to be compliant by Jan 1st 2012
The extras:
f) EU has endorsed it and will become an EU norm
g) Endorsed by the US CTIA (does that help the acceptance on this forum at all?)
h) If the vendors hadn't done it themselves, the EU would have created such a standard and enforced it
i) EU is looking for similar standards for ALL portable devices, including laptops, but the scope and timetable is still open.
Regs, Jarkko
Thanks for the extra info. Shame so-called journalists couldn't do what you did.
While that might be a rationale, it is disingenuous to suggest that such integration uses would not be possible under the USB standard. One of the examples was the game controller. There is nothing to preclude the use of the USB connector in achieving a similar aim. How else are the many games controllers connected to a PC?
What evidence do you have for that? PC games controllers are simpler.
It's pretty clear that the industry doesn't agree with you, otherwise they wouldn't have made such a big deal over licensing Apple's connector.
This is an article about EU, not the US
Right, they're SOOO much better there.
Did I?
Yes, you did.
Whilst this is true, the difference in efficiency will be very small. It's more in the raw materials that savings could be made with smaller chargers requiring smaller magnetic components and transistors. But the difference isn't that huge if you compare a 100 mA rated switch mode PSU to a 1 A one.
There won't be any less rechargers in use after this goes into effect, and there will continue to be just as many plugged in all the time, likely more over time. It does add up. Plugged in chargers are as much of a problem s dumping used ones are.
They could always have reclaiming boxes for old rechargers. The Japanese have battery dumping boxes on the street. For small devices such as cellphone batteries and other batteries this works well. I see no reason why it wouldn't work for chargers. That would solve the landfill dumping problem they're so worried about. Reclaiming electronics is getting better all the time.
It seems to me that designing chargers that drop their current draw to almost nothing until the device is plugged in would help a great deal. Right now, virtually no chargers do that, so they are powered all the time, though not delivering the amount of current the device needs. It's still considered to be too much. There are some spectacular numbers about how much current these things draw.
In addition (and I pretty much totally agree with Mr H.'s points) I don't know if any of you have tested a power brick recently. All the recent ones I have tested use essentially no power when they are not actually charging something. So this problem has already been addressed.
That's not true. Few chargers can power down when not being used. Current still flows through the charger. The only difference is that they aren't delivering the output to the device.
I have lots of wall huggers, and the most recent aren't drawing any less power than the older ones. That's assuming like for like.
The transformer based models consume more power when the device isn't plugged into them than do the electronic models. But all that I've tested do consume enough current so that when they're added together in the tens and hundreds of millions, there is significant power being wasted.
The main thing that amazes me about the comments here is how many people oppose this clearly sensible proposal simply on the political grounds that it is endorsed by the EU and smacks to them of "socialism". This is such a blinkered approach to the world, but is typical of when political dogma is allowed to run roughshod over common sense. Please try and cut out the political dogma, people, and open your minds instead!
I don't oppose the concept. And I don't care if it's socialism or not.
I just feel that it hasn't been thought out enough. There will be effects that haven't been taken into account. I think they should have taken some more time with this.
What is happening, is that the industry is fearing a EU mandated situation here, and they're trying to come out with something that isn't as strict before that happens. I've seen this occur many times over the years both here and there. It looks as though it worked for now.
It's even been stated that if this agreement hadn't been come to, and mandate would have been imposed.
I'm concerned about the one size fits all philosophy here for one thing. And I wonder if it's really possible to calculate how many units they will really be saving
I understand the enthusiasm, I'm just not so sure it will work out the way they think.
And I am a serious environmentalist.