I had a chance to see the $100 laptop in person last night. Talk about a cool machine. No moving parts! Sure, the specs are low, but it really gets you thinking. No optical, camera, instant-on (NAND), and really small. Plus, the screen swivles for laptop, tablet, or 'tv' modes. If you have a chance to see this computer, take it. They are predicting 100 million users (all linux-based) in a few years.
Anyhow, when you make a computer this small, the purpose of it really changes. IMO, it will not be anyone's main machine. You begin to enter the area of appliances. So, I think it would be very wise for Apple to create something that included instant-on NAND drives. A dual mode display would be great too. I'd love to carry around a Mac that did not need to rest on a surface. I'd use it for note taking, calendar, etc. If it ran full-blown apps, then that would be great too.
I'm glad Apple are **finally** following my lead when I made the worlds smallest and lightest (Apple hardware) Sub-notebook/ultramobile tablet pc about 6 months ago.
This is a little off topic, but you guys can probably stop mentioning in every single article that Apple is based in Cupertino. We don't need the filler; just the news, please. Article's already long enough.
I've been hammering on this point for the last... YEAR on my blog and other places for a long time. We need this in Japan - desperately. But I have to wonder what took so freaking long?
Japan is the number 2 consumer market in the world, and Apple is getting killed there. It's not just the infatuation with cute. It's the whole way we go to work - without cars. Sure, some people do drive but most of us use mass transportation. So, we gotta carry our laptops. Even the 12" G4 PowerBook is porky by Wintel standards.
To be honest, it doesn't have to have have NAND or all these other features to be light. The tech is already out there. But it should have come around nine months ago, not in June. That's the problem. Hopefully, my own 12" G4 will limp through the next couple months until this thing comes out.
Japan is also one of the worst computer markets the past few years. Sales everywhere else is up, but in Japan sales are down.
That's not just for Apple, it's the general computer market. Sony's subnotebooks aren't doing well their either. No reason why Apple's would.
I don't think that stretching the product line would result in less profit.
Mel I remember not too long ago when ever someone mentioned Apple increasing its product line you would mention the 90's when their product line had too many machines.
Quote:
While it might bite slightly into the low end MBP, it would likely generate much more in sales that they would lose.
I think its fine to add where demand is most prominent. But I think it would be inefficient and wasteful if they stretched into areas of less demand only to cover all bases.
I'm glad Apple are **finally** following my lead when I made the worlds smallest and lightest (Apple hardware) Sub-notebook/ultramobile tablet pc about 6 months ago.
Hey I am no expert on Japanese culture but from what you say and what I have seen of some Japanese idea of TV entertainment there must be a dual standard. They have the cruelest sense of humor in game shows I have ever seen. Apple ads seem tame next to making contestants crawl through tubes filled with slime and / or insects and so forth. I am not criticizing simply pointing out your generalization of the Japanese reaction to Apple ads doesn't seem to add up to me.
Japanese culture is odd. They are one of the most arrogant, along with some other Asian cultures, such as the Chinese, where they got their civilization from, but are full of "shame" as far as their own internal culture goes. They are actually afraid to let their differences become public. That's why they operate by "consensus" where everyone ostensibly has to agree for anything to get done. Of course, consensus really doesn't work, but it makes them feel good, pretending it does.
So they don't like public displays of discord, even in ads. It's too disturbing.It plays to their sense of powerlessness towards those above themselves.
Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.
Apple buys like half the world's flash supply. They get it at a massive discount. And if they can put 8 GB of it in a $250 iPod, they can put 16/32 in a MacBook. Flash costs Apple like $10 a GB or so, therefore at least 16 GB should be easy to get into a laptop, and 32 GB is possible.
That makes no sense whatsoever. You're equating a software issue with a hardware option. ZFS's boot issues have absolutely nothing to do with being on a hard drive or being on flash. Apple could just as easily stick their bootloader on a separate HDD partition.
And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.
ZFS does to seem to be, at a minimum, an option for 10.5.
Looks like Apple is finally plugging some oversize holes its product line-up-- first the 15" MB, now a subnotebook. Nice job Steve & Co. 8)
So much for the 'Apple doesn't need to be all things to all people' argument, correct on the face of it, but always taken to an extreme and always used to shoot down requests for even the most obvious and needed expansions to Apple's product line.
Who knows... at this rate we may even see a minitower before the year is out. Most of the other product line taboos seems to be breaking.
It would cost Apple about $300. I think that price is enabling.
It would cost Apple more than that. At least $450, if not more. Final cost to the consumer is at least double, and usually triple.
Flash, as currently manufacturered, is slower than HD's in ALL areas other than random acess. They are no full time solution now. In another year, we will begin to see viable solutions.
If they announce it in June and it ships in August that's half a year of NAND flash price erosion. If you extrapolate the current price trend, that means it will cost about $200 instead of $300. How much do hard drives cost Apple? Probably $50. So the increase in price would be about $150. And the markup isn't 100%. It's around 45% (see iSupplie iMac tear-down). So the extra cost to the consumer will be about $215 - which is well worth it for the power, noise, and space savings.
Your numbers are all wrong. Markup is 100% to 200%.
Forget iSupply, their numbers have usually been shown to be wrong as well.
The iPhone runs OSX and it only has 8GB. There must be a lite version of OSX that they will use for a sub machine, along with widget apps, perhaps?
Why would they need a lite version for a sub-notebook?
It would have a full speed cpu, a built-in gpu via Intel, which is still much better than what is in the iPhone, sufficient RAM, and a full size HD, of at least 30GB, if not more.
I'm glad Apple are **finally** following my lead when I made the worlds smallest and lightest (Apple hardware) Sub-notebook/ultramobile tablet pc about 6 months ago.
It would cost Apple more than that. At least $450, if not more. Final cost to the consumer is at least double, and usually triple.
Flash, as currently manufacturered, is slower than HD's in ALL areas other than random acess. They are no full time solution now. In another year, we will begin to see viable solutions.
A key advantage in PRAM is its extremely fast performance. Because PRAM can rewrite data without having to first erase data previously accumulated, it is effectively 30-times faster than conventional flash memory. Incredibly durable, PRAM is also expected to have at least 10-times the life span of flash memory.
I am sure they think that NAND-flash booting is more important than a DVD drive, but I really don't agree. Not that I use my DVD drive that much, but I really don't think it takes that long to boot either, so I would rather have the drive for watching movies on flights and such. Just look at the competition from Panasonic:
So there are plenty of computers out there at different option levels that all are pretty lightweight. No reason to restrict yourself to something ultra-tiny like a 10" screen just to get rid of weight.
The exclusion of an optical drive is deal breaker for me since this would be the laptop I use on flights across the country and I need to be able to watch DVD's!
Comments
I had a chance to see the $100 laptop in person last night. Talk about a cool machine. No moving parts! Sure, the specs are low, but it really gets you thinking. No optical, camera, instant-on (NAND), and really small. Plus, the screen swivles for laptop, tablet, or 'tv' modes. If you have a chance to see this computer, take it. They are predicting 100 million users (all linux-based) in a few years.
Anyhow, when you make a computer this small, the purpose of it really changes. IMO, it will not be anyone's main machine. You begin to enter the area of appliances. So, I think it would be very wise for Apple to create something that included instant-on NAND drives. A dual mode display would be great too. I'd love to carry around a Mac that did not need to rest on a surface. I'd use it for note taking, calendar, etc. If it ran full-blown apps, then that would be great too.
Check out my design based on a heavily modifed MacMini here; http://homepage.mac.com/peter_green/MMP_MkIII_Tablet/
I bet the Apple one will be great!! :-)
This is a little off topic, but you guys can probably stop mentioning in every single article that Apple is based in Cupertino. We don't need the filler; just the news, please. Article's already long enough.
Forget it! This has been mentioned for years.
I've been hammering on this point for the last... YEAR on my blog and other places for a long time. We need this in Japan - desperately. But I have to wonder what took so freaking long?
Japan is the number 2 consumer market in the world, and Apple is getting killed there. It's not just the infatuation with cute. It's the whole way we go to work - without cars. Sure, some people do drive but most of us use mass transportation. So, we gotta carry our laptops. Even the 12" G4 PowerBook is porky by Wintel standards.
To be honest, it doesn't have to have have NAND or all these other features to be light. The tech is already out there. But it should have come around nine months ago, not in June. That's the problem. Hopefully, my own 12" G4 will limp through the next couple months until this thing comes out.
Japan is also one of the worst computer markets the past few years. Sales everywhere else is up, but in Japan sales are down.
That's not just for Apple, it's the general computer market. Sony's subnotebooks aren't doing well their either. No reason why Apple's would.
I don't think that stretching the product line would result in less profit.
Mel I remember not too long ago when ever someone mentioned Apple increasing its product line you would mention the 90's when their product line had too many machines.
While it might bite slightly into the low end MBP, it would likely generate much more in sales that they would lose.
I think its fine to add where demand is most prominent. But I think it would be inefficient and wasteful if they stretched into areas of less demand only to cover all bases.
I'm glad Apple are **finally** following my lead when I made the worlds smallest and lightest (Apple hardware) Sub-notebook/ultramobile tablet pc about 6 months ago.
Check out my design based on a heavily modifed MacMini here; http://homepage.mac.com/peter_green/MMP_MkIII_Tablet/
I bet the Apple one will be great!! :-)
Hahaha. That is neat. Nice little DIY project there. Size of a showbox...but kinda neat anyhow
The iPhone runs OSX and it only has 8GB. There must be a lite version of OSX that they will use for a sub machine, along with widget apps, perhaps?
Hey I am no expert on Japanese culture but from what you say and what I have seen of some Japanese idea of TV entertainment there must be a dual standard. They have the cruelest sense of humor in game shows I have ever seen. Apple ads seem tame next to making contestants crawl through tubes filled with slime and / or insects and so forth. I am not criticizing simply pointing out your generalization of the Japanese reaction to Apple ads doesn't seem to add up to me.
Japanese culture is odd. They are one of the most arrogant, along with some other Asian cultures, such as the Chinese, where they got their civilization from, but are full of "shame" as far as their own internal culture goes. They are actually afraid to let their differences become public. That's why they operate by "consensus" where everyone ostensibly has to agree for anything to get done. Of course, consensus really doesn't work, but it makes them feel good, pretending it does.
So they don't like public displays of discord, even in ads. It's too disturbing.It plays to their sense of powerlessness towards those above themselves.
Very odd.
Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.
Pretty much.
Apple buys like half the world's flash supply. They get it at a massive discount. And if they can put 8 GB of it in a $250 iPod, they can put 16/32 in a MacBook. Flash costs Apple like $10 a GB or so, therefore at least 16 GB should be easy to get into a laptop, and 32 GB is possible.
That makes no sense whatsoever. You're equating a software issue with a hardware option. ZFS's boot issues have absolutely nothing to do with being on a hard drive or being on flash. Apple could just as easily stick their bootloader on a separate HDD partition.
And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.
ZFS does to seem to be, at a minimum, an option for 10.5.
I agree with you about the rest.
So much for the 'Apple doesn't need to be all things to all people' argument, correct on the face of it, but always taken to an extreme and always used to shoot down requests for even the most obvious and needed expansions to Apple's product line.
Who knows... at this rate we may even see a minitower before the year is out. Most of the other product line taboos seems to be breaking.
Go Apple!
.
It would cost Apple about $300. I think that price is enabling.
It would cost Apple more than that. At least $450, if not more. Final cost to the consumer is at least double, and usually triple.
Flash, as currently manufacturered, is slower than HD's in ALL areas other than random acess. They are no full time solution now. In another year, we will begin to see viable solutions.
Here's one:
http://samsung.com/PressCenter/Press...911_0000286481
If they announce it in June and it ships in August that's half a year of NAND flash price erosion. If you extrapolate the current price trend, that means it will cost about $200 instead of $300. How much do hard drives cost Apple? Probably $50. So the increase in price would be about $150. And the markup isn't 100%. It's around 45% (see iSupplie iMac tear-down). So the extra cost to the consumer will be about $215 - which is well worth it for the power, noise, and space savings.
Your numbers are all wrong. Markup is 100% to 200%.
Forget iSupply, their numbers have usually been shown to be wrong as well.
JeffDM:
The iPhone runs OSX and it only has 8GB. There must be a lite version of OSX that they will use for a sub machine, along with widget apps, perhaps?
Why would they need a lite version for a sub-notebook?
It would have a full speed cpu, a built-in gpu via Intel, which is still much better than what is in the iPhone, sufficient RAM, and a full size HD, of at least 30GB, if not more.
What if:
Dual screen, with the second screen serving as a dual touch input interface that can be programmable?
iPhone has it... Why not?
Man, I am dreaming already.
and drooling
The first thought I had too. I mean those other sub-notebooks are fixed in plasic?
I'm glad Apple are **finally** following my lead when I made the worlds smallest and lightest (Apple hardware) Sub-notebook/ultramobile tablet pc about 6 months ago.
Check out my design based on a heavily modifed MacMini here; http://homepage.mac.com/peter_green/MMP_MkIII_Tablet/
I bet the Apple one will be great!! :-)
Very Nice (Think Borat).
It would cost Apple more than that. At least $450, if not more. Final cost to the consumer is at least double, and usually triple.
Flash, as currently manufacturered, is slower than HD's in ALL areas other than random acess. They are no full time solution now. In another year, we will begin to see viable solutions.
Here's one:
http://samsung.com/PressCenter/Press...911_0000286481
Extract from the article:
A key advantage in PRAM is its extremely fast performance. Because PRAM can rewrite data without having to first erase data previously accumulated, it is effectively 30-times faster than conventional flash memory. Incredibly durable, PRAM is also expected to have at least 10-times the life span of flash memory.
Sounds very interesting.
2lb and no drive, 10.4" screen:
http://www.dynamism.com/r6/main.shtml
2.8lb and no drive, 12.1" screen:
http://www.dynamism.com/t5/main.shtml
and the real killer:
3.3lb, drive, 14.1" screen
http://www.dynamism.com/y5/main.shtml
So there are plenty of computers out there at different option levels that all are pretty lightweight. No reason to restrict yourself to something ultra-tiny like a 10" screen just to get rid of weight.