BD-J is an issue because all of standalone BD players do not meet the hardware spec it requires to run the in movie interactive features, except for Sony BD player.
This is why early adopters are considered to be on the bleeding edge. They get to do a lot of bleeding as the technology gets worked out.
In any case you're still screwed with anything other than a PS3 which has more headroom for improvements. Are there any standalone Profile 2.0 (BD-Live) machines? Nope. Heck are there any 1.1 profile products? Not till mid-year IIRC.
. . . doesnt the above quote (from yourself) rather make a point against you .. sure looks that way to me.. but then what would i know.. im dyslexic.
Are you claiming that BD-J doesn't work, like a broken TV? It's my impression, from what I have read here, that BD-J does indeed work. It is simply not finished yet, so it lack some functionality that will appear later, when it is completed.
If I am incorrect, please provide the details for myself and other.
Are you claiming that BD-J doesn't work, like a broken TV? It's my impression, from what I have read here, that BD-J does indeed work. It is simply not finished yet, so it lack some functionality that will appear later, when it is completed.
If I am incorrect, please provide the details for myself and other.
Stick -- Wrong end of
i agree with your point, but the example you gave did not help you make it
in your post above you are trying to point out that BROKEN is the wrong word to use, yet under the definition or BROKEN in the example relating to TV set.. an electronic device not unlike that, which the thread is about the dictionary example you provide says INOPERATIVE, NOT WORKING
no matter how i read that it seems to be going against the very point you are trying to make, that BD-J IS working.. just not as well as it could be
but NOT WORKING, is indeed just that... NOT WORKIN G sorry.
//Originally Posted by snoopy
3 this TV's broken INOPERATIVE, not working,... //
i plan on getitng a PS3 as and when (still not out here) so this (non) "issue" will (from what i read) hardly effect my BD watching at all... or you could say that "i dont care"
I didn't expect to get into a long discussion on word usage, but I started it and only have myself to blame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer
. . . in your post above you are trying to point out that BROKEN is the wrong word to use, yet under the definition or BROKEN in the example relating to TV set.. an electronic device not unlike that, which the thread is about the dictionary example you provide says INOPERATIVE, NOT WORKING
These words convey the idea that something doesn't work at all. My car is not working, or my computer is not working, for example. To see this, let's say my car is difficult to start, but otherwise runs fine. I might say, my car is not working well. But in this case the NOT does not modify the word "working," but the idea of "working well."
If you think this is nit picking, try using another word in the same sentence. Most other words do not make sense. My car is inoperative well, or my car is broken well. If anything, these statements emphasize how completely broken my car is, which is opposite of what I said in the initial statement: "my car is not working well."
Quote:
no matter how i read that it seems to be going against the very point you are trying to make, that BD-J IS working.. just not as well as it could be
The problem with your analysis shows up in this statement of your. Do the word substitution and we get, "BD-J IS inoperative . . just not as well as it could be." It's easy to fall into this trap.
Sometimes it helps to read the sentence including the implied word at the end. The sentence really ends with these words "as well as it could be working." The last word is often left implied in English.
The bottom line is that saying "it is not working well" is a statement about how something IS working, and not a statement about how it is broken.
Lastly, the BD-J analogy to MacOS Tiger is the Quartz 3d Extreme. It came disabled/incomplete/unfinished/broken with first version of Tiger. Is it fixed now or still broken? Are we still screwed?.... or is it not broken because consumers don't use this feature?
You're absolutely right. People must be flocking to Windows because Quartz 3D Extreme isn't working in OS X. Get on the ball, Apple! Can't you see that OS X sucks without that? And nobody cares about high definition movies. It's all about the interactive extras!
This is a good thing. I wouldn't expect 50GB discs to be as popular in the HD DVD arena as they are with Blu-ray. HD DVD has been about efficiency and delivering quality in 30GB. LotR and other long play movies require much more storage than the avg feature length film. This now gives producers the ability to store the whole movie on the whole disc with room for excellent video, interactivity and sound.
I'm assuming that we might see 34GB standard 2-layer discs should this be ratified. I'm glad they are submitting it now for approval as LotR is coming in 2008 and this disc tech would be something they'd be interested in.
bitemymac is correct. Toshiba engineers were able to fiddle with the track pitch for a bit more density adding up to an additional 2GB per layer.
If compatibility is solid with current players (and I think it will be due to Toshibas prowess with PRML) then it will certainly bode well for HD DVD. Even at 2-layers the extra 4GB is enough to store all your audio needs or an extra 40 minutes of video at roughly 14mbps datarate.
Still can't admit it. HD-DVD = Betamax. Beta-what?
Could be but that wouldn't be due to Blu-ray's technical superiority but due to Fox/Disney/Columbia content being withheld. Frankly I think HD DVD will hit 2 million players worldwide this year and eventually Fox and Disney and LGF will come over. I'm predicting stalemate.
2 million players are not excactly that much - there are more than 2 milllion BD players out now.
Furthermore I can tell you that in many European countries Toshiba is almost non existing regarding their CE products which means almost no marketing at all in those countries.
so will the current players KNOW to follow the "tighter groove" ? .. sorry for the non tech speak
As far as I know, it is backward compatible on current HD-DVD drives. Remember 650MB vs. 700MB CD media, and I don't think having extra 50MB introduced compatibility problems with older CD-ROM drives or players.
But the current players will not be able to handle the third layer. It says so right in the original article. That would also include all of the Xbox 360's add-on drives. And while there may or may not have been problems with 700MB CD-Rs, remember that a great many drives can't handle 800MB discs. In fact, I don't know of any way to burn them on Macs.
And, of course, it all comes down to this: all the article says is that Toshiba submitted the new format to be approved on paper. It doesn't say anything about it actually existing or working, much less being able to be mass-produced.
Comments
BD-J is an issue because all of standalone BD players do not meet the hardware spec it requires to run the in movie interactive features, except for Sony BD player.
This is why early adopters are considered to be on the bleeding edge. They get to do a lot of bleeding as the technology gets worked out.
In any case you're still screwed with anything other than a PS3 which has more headroom for improvements. Are there any standalone Profile 2.0 (BD-Live) machines? Nope. Heck are there any 1.1 profile products? Not till mid-year IIRC.
Vinea
. . . doesnt the above quote (from yourself) rather make a point against you
Are you claiming that BD-J doesn't work, like a broken TV? It's my impression, from what I have read here, that BD-J does indeed work. It is simply not finished yet, so it lack some functionality that will appear later, when it is completed.
If I am incorrect, please provide the details for myself and other.
Are you claiming that BD-J doesn't work, like a broken TV? It's my impression, from what I have read here, that BD-J does indeed work. It is simply not finished yet, so it lack some functionality that will appear later, when it is completed.
If I am incorrect, please provide the details for myself and other.
Stick -- Wrong end of
i agree with your point, but the example you gave did not help you make it
in your post above you are trying to point out that BROKEN is the wrong word to use, yet under the definition or BROKEN in the example relating to TV set.. an electronic device not unlike that, which the thread is about
no matter how i read that it seems to be going against the very point you are trying to make, that BD-J IS working.. just not as well as it could be
but NOT WORKING, is indeed just that... NOT WORKIN G
//Originally Posted by snoopy
3 this TV's broken INOPERATIVE, not working,... //
i plan on getitng a PS3 as and when (still not out here) so this (non) "issue" will (from what i read) hardly effect my BD watching at all... or you could say that "i dont care"
no your not!
how would you know!!!
You're right I don't! I never do that! I always KNOW I know everything before jumping into any conversation!
You're right I don't! I never do that! I always KNOW I know everything before jumping into any conversation!
so there
AAAANYWAY... back on topic
. . . in your post above you are trying to point out that BROKEN is the wrong word to use, yet under the definition or BROKEN in the example relating to TV set.. an electronic device not unlike that, which the thread is about
These words convey the idea that something doesn't work at all. My car is not working, or my computer is not working, for example. To see this, let's say my car is difficult to start, but otherwise runs fine. I might say, my car is not working well. But in this case the NOT does not modify the word "working," but the idea of "working well."
If you think this is nit picking, try using another word in the same sentence. Most other words do not make sense. My car is inoperative well, or my car is broken well. If anything, these statements emphasize how completely broken my car is, which is opposite of what I said in the initial statement: "my car is not working well."
no matter how i read that it seems to be going against the very point you are trying to make, that BD-J IS working.. just not as well as it could be
The problem with your analysis shows up in this statement of your. Do the word substitution and we get, "BD-J IS inoperative . . just not as well as it could be." It's easy to fall into this trap.
Sometimes it helps to read the sentence including the implied word at the end. The sentence really ends with these words "as well as it could be working." The last word is often left implied in English.
The bottom line is that saying "it is not working well" is a statement about how something IS working, and not a statement about how it is broken.
Lastly, the BD-J analogy to MacOS Tiger is the Quartz 3d Extreme. It came disabled/incomplete/unfinished/broken with first version of Tiger. Is it fixed now or still broken? Are we still screwed?.... or is it not broken because consumers don't use this feature?
You're absolutely right. People must be flocking to Windows because Quartz 3D Extreme isn't working in OS X. Get on the ball, Apple! Can't you see that OS X sucks without that? And nobody cares about high definition movies. It's all about the interactive extras!
Toshiba 51 GB HD-DVD
I will let you do the commenting.
Toshiba 51 GB HD-DVD
Comment I shall.
This is a good thing. I wouldn't expect 50GB discs to be as popular in the HD DVD arena as they are with Blu-ray. HD DVD has been about efficiency and delivering quality in 30GB. LotR and other long play movies require much more storage than the avg feature length film. This now gives producers the ability to store the whole movie on the whole disc with room for excellent video, interactivity and sound.
I'm assuming that we might see 34GB standard 2-layer discs should this be ratified. I'm glad they are submitting it now for approval as LotR is coming in 2008 and this disc tech would be something they'd be interested in.
I didn't expect to get into a long discussion on word usage, but I started it and only have myself to blame.
and i get the feeling i put my feet in here without going to the trouble of going back over the other parts of this part of the conversation
now... can we get some future tense action going on?
as it BD-J WILL be working ... soon-er-est
wow its late!
I will let you do the commenting.
Toshiba 51 GB HD-DVD
lemme see now..
1 layer = 15 GB
2 layers = 30 GB
3 layers = 51 GB
hows that suddenly JUMP from a uniform 15 GB per layer?
lemme see now..
1 layer = 15 GB
2 layers = 30 GB
3 layers = 51 GB
hows that suddenly JUMP from a uniform 15 GB per layer?
They managed to store 17GB per layer now.
If compatibility is solid with current players (and I think it will be due to Toshibas prowess with PRML) then it will certainly bode well for HD DVD. Even at 2-layers the extra 4GB is enough to store all your audio needs or an extra 40 minutes of video at roughly 14mbps datarate.
Still can't admit it. HD-DVD = Betamax. Beta-what?
Could be but that wouldn't be due to Blu-ray's technical superiority but due to Fox/Disney/Columbia content being withheld. Frankly I think HD DVD will hit 2 million players worldwide this year and eventually Fox and Disney and LGF will come over. I'm predicting stalemate.
Furthermore I can tell you that in many European countries Toshiba is almost non existing regarding their CE products which means almost no marketing at all in those countries.
They managed to store 17GB per layer now.
so will the current players KNOW to follow the "tighter groove" ? .. sorry for the non tech speak
Frankly I think HD DVD will hit 2 million players worldwide this year and eventually Fox and Disney and LGF will come over.
wasnt someone talking about 10 million HD-DVD players this year... or was that in last yers thread?
so will the current players KNOW to follow the "tighter groove" ? .. sorry for the non tech speak
As far as I know, it is backward compatible on current HD-DVD drives. Remember 650MB vs. 700MB CD media, and I don't think having extra 50MB introduced compatibility problems with older CD-ROM drives or players.
When it's out, then we'll know for sure.
And, of course, it all comes down to this: all the article says is that Toshiba submitted the new format to be approved on paper. It doesn't say anything about it actually existing or working, much less being able to be mass-produced.