So how is this unethical? Had the blu-ray supporters submitted their votes to not go with hd dvd, we would be in a different situation (just vote no!). Instead, the blu-ray guys were employing their own "unethical" tactics to stall for time. Everyone knew about the change in rules before the voting took place. Its not as if Toshiba rushed a secret meeting, changed all the rules, and pushed the format through. Toshiba couldn't change the voting rules on their own, they had to vote to change the rules. Where were the blu-ray supporters then?
The reason most of the blu-ay guys weren't there to begin with, and the reason for the rule change, is simple (and a matter of fact). Once Sony didn't get there way, and blu-ray was shot down by the dvd-forum for having an incomplete spec, they got their supporters to stop showing up for the votes on hd dvd to stall for time to complete their spec. They new hd dvd was going to be presented and be voted on, so they found a loop hole, and abused it for their advantage. Talk about unethical...
A very good attempt at spin my friend, but you are missing a few facts. For instance, Blu-ray was never "shot down by the dvd-forum" as the Blu-ray format never was presented to the DVD forum. Furthermore, the DVD forum is for just that, the regulation of DVD specifications, not for the creation of next generation media, aka Blu-ray or HD DVD. The BDA was formed quite well in advance of any vote for HD DVD by the DVD forum, which by the way really had no real mandate for HD DVD or Blu-ray. Also, if you read, the majority of the DVD Forum members were Blu-ray supporters, and 10 out of 17, were never going to allow for HD DVD to be approved via the ethical way, which was to abstain, or in other words be absent and therefore give a vote of 'no.' So, what does Toshiba--who coincidently is the chair of the DVD Forum--do? They, with the other minority of HD DVD backers, change the way votes are counted, and usher in HD DVD as the quasi-official format approved by the DVD forum when in actuality the majority of members dissapproved of HD DVD.
BTW, I love statements from you like this...
Quote:
Everyone knew about the change in rules before the voting took place. Its not as if Toshiba rushed a secret meeting, changed all the rules, and pushed the format through.
...because it truly is telling that you aren't reading the articles for facts when in the link provided it states this...
Quote:
Last week's announcement caught many involved in the DVD Forum and Blu-ray Disc Group off guard.
So if everyone knew about it, then why were many that were involved caught off guard and where is your link providing the proof of such--that everyone knew? Hmm? Or do you always pull things out yer red eye?
This happens to be one of many reasons I don't care for HD DVD as a format, as I find the backers underhanded tactics unpalatable--and no, I'm not claiming that all the companies in the BDA are shining sources of ethical behavior either, but obviously, if unethical means were not taken within the DVD Forum, we wouldn't be in this predicament of a format war--as the majority or companies then upheld Blu-ray, and even now, the majority of companies uphold Blu-ray. It seems, it is the Toshiba clan that is bent on attempting to go it somewhat alone against the recommendation of the majority of the industry. Oh well, it will be there loss,...in terms of morale and cash.
The numbers aren't encouraging for HD DVD over at Amazon.com, according to eproductwars. Every time I've looked, Blu-ray was winning in almost every category listed. A week ago, the only category HD DVD won was in average disc price, but they lost that this week, too.
I'm not holding out for holographic storage, but 20GB is marginal to me. It's already more cost effective to back up data on HD than it is on optical disk.
Also, if you read, the majority of the DVD Forum members were Blu-ray supporters, and 10 out of 17, were never going to allow for HD DVD to be approved via the ethical way, which was to abstain, or in other words be absent and therefore give a vote of 'no.'
What is with you and ethics?
Sounds to me like laziness. If they would have shown up and voted no, there would have been no issues. I wish I could find the article now (it was years ago that I had read about this), but I remember reading that the "blu-ray" supporters were not showing up to stall for time in order to be able to present the blu-ray spec to the dvd form. Since there spec was incomplete when hd dvd was being presented, they had no counter format to present. So they just "didn't show up" in a means of stalling for time (with no vote able to take place). So the rules were changed. I don't see that as "unethical", rules get changed all the time. And again, its not as if Toshiba just said, were changing the rules right now. There is a process, and voting.
So marz, hows your blu-ray player working for you? My hd dvd player had been great.
So marz, hows your blu-ray player working for you? My hd dvd player had been great.
Marz is just a ethical cheerleader for Sony/BD with so much faith in BD products that he only tells people to buy w/out having himself contribute to the technology.... or a 12 years old with very small allowance. If he behaves this year, he may get a PS3 for x-mas. I'll make sure to shot your parents an email and let them know how nice you've been on the net, sharing all your Sony/BD brochures and all.
Marz is just a ethical cheerleader for Sony/BD with so much faith in BD products that he only tells people to buy w/out having himself contribute to the technology.... or a 12 years old with very small allowance. If he behaves this year, he may get a PS3 for x-mas. I'll make sure to shot your parents an email and let them know how nice you've been on the net, sharing all your Sony/BD brochures and all.
Actually, Apple has used several manufacturers for Superdrives. My PowerMac G5, for instance, had an LG GWA-4082B. Interestingly, it was speced for 4x DVD burning yet later burned Taiyo Yuden discs at 8x. Can't imagine why, since I never updated the firmware.
My G5 Dual 2.5 also had the same LG drive but I'm sure the rated speed was 8x. The drive was reliable and never burned a coaster and burned at speed on 8x discs but had the nasty habit of burning 16x discs at 2x. The replacement computer from Apple, a MacPro Quad 2.66 has a Sony drive. Basically I think Apple buys in lots from whichever company meets specifications and has the lowest price at the time.
If Marz is 12 he sure writes and reasons well for someone that age. I must admit though that I'm curious why he hasn't bought into B-D yet. Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting what in your opinion is the best format to be dominant when the time comes to plunk down your dollars.
From a realistic standpoint it's still too early to gloat over figures. Unless one format tanks in sales or looses studio support, then it's going to be a long, slow slog.
Yeah, it's like watching one of those daytime TV court shows.
Certain people seem to make their mind up on something and then stick to their guns no matter what. These same people also mistakenly conflate their own wishes with their predictions for the future.
Yep, just like an episode of Springer. But hey, I like trashy daytime threads as much as any other forum lurker.
The numbers aren't encouraging for HD DVD over at Amazon.com, according to eproductwars. Every time I've looked, Blu-ray was winning in almost every category listed. A week ago, the only category HD DVD won was in average disc price, but they lost that this week, too.
Blu-Ray is totally dominating every category now. HD-DVD has nearly fallen off the map.
I admit to being a bit nonplussed about why Universal/Warner/Paramount are being so slow with movie releases.
Perhaps, they're planning on a strong finish than a flashy entrance. Most of the BD goodies will be surfaced by summer and HD supposedly have 300+ titles to release through out this year, not to mention that 100 of them are HD-DVD exclusives from Universal. I'm hoping the HD-DVD release timing is strategic to avoid market slump. We'll see what happens in April and on...... I think it's going to roll starting with Matrix.
My G5 Dual 2.5 also had the same LG drive but I'm sure the rated speed was 8x. The drive was reliable and never burned a coaster and burned at speed on 8x discs but had the nasty habit of burning 16x discs at 2x. The replacement computer from Apple, a MacPro Quad 2.66 has a Sony drive. Basically I think Apple buys in lots from whichever company meets specifications and has the lowest price at the time.
If Marz is 12 he sure writes and reasons well for someone that age. I must admit though that I'm curious why he hasn't bought into B-D yet. Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting what in your opinion is the best format to be dominant when the time comes to plunk down your dollars.
From a realistic standpoint it's still too early to gloat over figures. Unless one format tanks in sales or looses studio support, then it's going to be a long, slow slog.
Thanks for the complement OldCodger73. I've read many a post by you and do have to admit that I admire your level headedness within the thread. Well, to answer those curiosities, I haven't bought into BD yet, as I have 3 boys to attend to, with a baby girl on the way in July. Kinda puts a damper on the whole approaching the wife and saying I want to spend X amount of dollars on big boy toys, when there are diapers, clothes, baseball leagues, doctors appointments, and other payments and/or debts on the table that are much more crucial than admittedly the PS3 or other high def equipment in my life at the current moment. I'm currently working on the "kids need a PS3 to work on their hand-eye coordination" angle with the mrs. so I'll let you all know how that turns out.
I think you nailed it on the head from where I'm coming from--that is, "wanting what in my opinion is the best format to be dominant when the tim comes to plunk down my dollars." The time will come soon enough.
Comments
So how is this unethical? Had the blu-ray supporters submitted their votes to not go with hd dvd, we would be in a different situation (just vote no!). Instead, the blu-ray guys were employing their own "unethical" tactics to stall for time. Everyone knew about the change in rules before the voting took place. Its not as if Toshiba rushed a secret meeting, changed all the rules, and pushed the format through. Toshiba couldn't change the voting rules on their own, they had to vote to change the rules. Where were the blu-ray supporters then?
The reason most of the blu-ay guys weren't there to begin with, and the reason for the rule change, is simple (and a matter of fact). Once Sony didn't get there way, and blu-ray was shot down by the dvd-forum for having an incomplete spec, they got their supporters to stop showing up for the votes on hd dvd to stall for time to complete their spec. They new hd dvd was going to be presented and be voted on, so they found a loop hole, and abused it for their advantage. Talk about unethical...
A very good attempt at spin my friend, but you are missing a few facts. For instance, Blu-ray was never "shot down by the dvd-forum" as the Blu-ray format never was presented to the DVD forum. Furthermore, the DVD forum is for just that, the regulation of DVD specifications, not for the creation of next generation media, aka Blu-ray or HD DVD. The BDA was formed quite well in advance of any vote for HD DVD by the DVD forum, which by the way really had no real mandate for HD DVD or Blu-ray. Also, if you read, the majority of the DVD Forum members were Blu-ray supporters, and 10 out of 17, were never going to allow for HD DVD to be approved via the ethical way, which was to abstain, or in other words be absent and therefore give a vote of 'no.' So, what does Toshiba--who coincidently is the chair of the DVD Forum--do? They, with the other minority of HD DVD backers, change the way votes are counted, and usher in HD DVD as the quasi-official format approved by the DVD forum when in actuality the majority of members dissapproved of HD DVD.
BTW, I love statements from you like this...
Everyone knew about the change in rules before the voting took place. Its not as if Toshiba rushed a secret meeting, changed all the rules, and pushed the format through.
...because it truly is telling that you aren't reading the articles for facts when in the link provided it states this...
Last week's announcement caught many involved in the DVD Forum and Blu-ray Disc Group off guard.
So if everyone knew about it, then why were many that were involved caught off guard and where is your link providing the proof of such--that everyone knew? Hmm? Or do you always pull things out yer red eye?
This happens to be one of many reasons I don't care for HD DVD as a format, as I find the backers underhanded tactics unpalatable--and no, I'm not claiming that all the companies in the BDA are shining sources of ethical behavior either, but obviously, if unethical means were not taken within the DVD Forum, we wouldn't be in this predicament of a format war--as the majority or companies then upheld Blu-ray, and even now, the majority of companies uphold Blu-ray. It seems, it is the Toshiba clan that is bent on attempting to go it somewhat alone against the recommendation of the majority of the industry. Oh well, it will be there loss,...in terms of morale and cash.
I think you guys should cage match it...
I'm not holding out for holographic storage, but 20GB is marginal to me. It's already more cost effective to back up data on HD than it is on optical disk.
How do you figure that?
or in other words be absent and therefore give a vote of 'no.'
speaking of which... havent seen murch for the last 2 pages.. you think he sees writing on the wall somewhere ?
Also, if you read, the majority of the DVD Forum members were Blu-ray supporters, and 10 out of 17, were never going to allow for HD DVD to be approved via the ethical way, which was to abstain, or in other words be absent and therefore give a vote of 'no.'
What is with you and ethics?
Sounds to me like laziness. If they would have shown up and voted no, there would have been no issues. I wish I could find the article now (it was years ago that I had read about this), but I remember reading that the "blu-ray" supporters were not showing up to stall for time in order to be able to present the blu-ray spec to the dvd form. Since there spec was incomplete when hd dvd was being presented, they had no counter format to present. So they just "didn't show up" in a means of stalling for time (with no vote able to take place). So the rules were changed. I don't see that as "unethical", rules get changed all the time. And again, its not as if Toshiba just said, were changing the rules right now. There is a process, and voting.
So marz, hows your blu-ray player working for you? My hd dvd player had been great.
What is with you and ethics?
So marz, hows your blu-ray player working for you? My hd dvd player had been great.
Marz is just a ethical cheerleader for Sony/BD with so much faith in BD products that he only tells people to buy w/out having himself contribute to the technology.... or a 12 years old with very small allowance. If he behaves this year, he may get a PS3 for x-mas. I'll make sure to shot your parents an email and let them know how nice you've been on the net, sharing all your Sony/BD brochures and all.
Marz is just a ethical cheerleader for Sony/BD with so much faith in BD products that he only tells people to buy w/out having himself contribute to the technology.... or a 12 years old with very small allowance. If he behaves this year, he may get a PS3 for x-mas. I'll make sure to shot your parents an email and let them know how nice you've been on the net, sharing all your Sony/BD brochures and all.
Who's acting like a 12 year old here?
Who's acting like a 12 year old here?
I guess we all have been........ but he did it first.....
LOL @ Marzetta7 AND kupan787
I think you guys should cage match it...
Hehehe. [Insert definitive Dolph Lundren Russian Accent Here] I'll break him.
Actually, Apple has used several manufacturers for Superdrives. My PowerMac G5, for instance, had an LG GWA-4082B. Interestingly, it was speced for 4x DVD burning yet later burned Taiyo Yuden discs at 8x. Can't imagine why, since I never updated the firmware.
My G5 Dual 2.5 also had the same LG drive but I'm sure the rated speed was 8x. The drive was reliable and never burned a coaster and burned at speed on 8x discs but had the nasty habit of burning 16x discs at 2x. The replacement computer from Apple, a MacPro Quad 2.66 has a Sony drive. Basically I think Apple buys in lots from whichever company meets specifications and has the lowest price at the time.
If Marz is 12 he sure writes and reasons well for someone that age. I must admit though that I'm curious why he hasn't bought into B-D yet. Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting what in your opinion is the best format to be dominant when the time comes to plunk down your dollars.
From a realistic standpoint it's still too early to gloat over figures. Unless one format tanks in sales or looses studio support, then it's going to be a long, slow slog.
$ per gigabyte
I don't see that, at least with DVDs. I can buy Ritek DVD-Rs at about 25¢ per disc. That's $25 for 440GB. You can't buy a 400GB HD for $25.
This thread is getting AWESOME.
Yeah, it's like watching one of those daytime TV court shows.
Certain people seem to make their mind up on something and then stick to their guns no matter what. These same people also mistakenly conflate their own wishes with their predictions for the future.
Yep, just like an episode of Springer. But hey, I like trashy daytime threads as much as any other forum lurker.
*ding* *ding*
The numbers aren't encouraging for HD DVD over at Amazon.com, according to eproductwars. Every time I've looked, Blu-ray was winning in almost every category listed. A week ago, the only category HD DVD won was in average disc price, but they lost that this week, too.
Blu-Ray is totally dominating every category now. HD-DVD has nearly fallen off the map.
http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/
I admit to being a bit nonplussed about why Universal/Warner/Paramount are being so slow with movie releases.
Blu-ray is flexing it's content advantage.
I admit to being a bit nonplussed about why Universal/Warner/Paramount are being so slow with movie releases.
Perhaps, they're planning on a strong finish than a flashy entrance. Most of the BD goodies will be surfaced by summer and HD supposedly have 300+ titles to release through out this year, not to mention that 100 of them are HD-DVD exclusives from Universal. I'm hoping the HD-DVD release timing is strategic to avoid market slump. We'll see what happens in April and on...... I think it's going to roll starting with Matrix.
My G5 Dual 2.5 also had the same LG drive but I'm sure the rated speed was 8x. The drive was reliable and never burned a coaster and burned at speed on 8x discs but had the nasty habit of burning 16x discs at 2x. The replacement computer from Apple, a MacPro Quad 2.66 has a Sony drive. Basically I think Apple buys in lots from whichever company meets specifications and has the lowest price at the time.
If Marz is 12 he sure writes and reasons well for someone that age. I must admit though that I'm curious why he hasn't bought into B-D yet. Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting what in your opinion is the best format to be dominant when the time comes to plunk down your dollars.
From a realistic standpoint it's still too early to gloat over figures. Unless one format tanks in sales or looses studio support, then it's going to be a long, slow slog.
Thanks for the complement OldCodger73. I've read many a post by you and do have to admit that I admire your level headedness within the thread. Well, to answer those curiosities, I haven't bought into BD yet, as I have 3 boys to attend to, with a baby girl on the way in July. Kinda puts a damper on the whole approaching the wife and saying I want to spend X amount of dollars on big boy toys, when there are diapers, clothes, baseball leagues, doctors appointments, and other payments and/or debts on the table that are much more crucial than admittedly the PS3 or other high def equipment in my life at the current moment. I'm currently working on the "kids need a PS3 to work on their hand-eye coordination" angle with the mrs. so I'll let you all know how that turns out.
I think you nailed it on the head from where I'm coming from--that is, "wanting what in my opinion is the best format to be dominant when the tim comes to plunk down my dollars." The time will come soon enough.