Apple stirs controversy with iMovie's '08 overhaul

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  • Reply 241 of 289
    I haven't had a chance to try out iMovie 08 yet, but from the sounds of it, it seems like there are valid points on both sides.



    I'd like to add my voice to those who are suggesting that it should have been a complementary product rather than a replacement.
  • Reply 242 of 289
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Really not sure what the big deal is at this point. All new Macs will come with iLife 08 installed and iMovie HD 6 is a free download so you can have both applications on your system and use whichever you like based on needs.



    Just downloaded HD 6 now and it puts it in a seperate folder called (pevious versions).



    Not exactly rocket science here.



    Some of us who already have iLife '06 are obviously dumb enough to run into the stores and pay $79 for something that has less functionality than before. At least I can be happy that iMovie HD can be downloaded for free... well, geee, thanks.
  • Reply 243 of 289
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I can't believe people are citing the Pogue article to show that all is well.



    I didn't quote Pogue as saying "all is well". He did quote Apple saying '08 is version 1 and updates should come in the future. That is all I was saying.



    Quote:

    The article didn't say that they'll definitely add functionality with free updates, that was the speculation part of the article.



    Here is what he said...."Apple says that it was thinking: “It’s 1.0. We’ll bring it up to par with free software updates, like we always do.”



    That sounds like a direct quote from Apple to me.



    Quote:

    This post is a classic example of quoting "out of context" as it would seem to indicate that Pogue is in favor of Imovie 8 when, in fact, he , according to the FULL article, is not. Is there an agenda here that I don't get? .....just asking



    Where in my post did I say Pogue is in favor of iMovie 08? I don't use iMovie and don't really care either way.
  • Reply 244 of 289
    slackulaslackula Posts: 262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    They use hype, innovation, and the "coolness factor" to sell products. The loss in quality is a result of a) pushing the envelope to make a product as good looking as possible and b) a willingness to give up features to add cool new ones even if the new feature isn't as useful to everyone as the old.



    Agreed. Just because a new product comes out, doesn't necessarily mean it is better than the old or something I want to adopt right away.



    Leopard may well arrive with some pretty cool and useful features. But I am not sitting here today thinking, "Man, I really can't wait to see that operating system. I really NEED some of those new features Leopard may or will offer."



    In addition to web surfing and e-mail, my computer use involves my using iMovie '06 and some plug-ins to make a VERY nice chunk of change as a part-time wedding day film maker. It is not very likely at all to happen, but say theoretically Leopard would not run iMovie '06. There would be no reason in the world that I would want to be an early adopter of it even if it had a lot of "hot new and cool features."



    Just my $0.02.



  • Reply 245 of 289
    mimacmimac Posts: 871member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slackula View Post


    Agreed. Just because a new product comes out, doesn't necessarily mean it is better than the old or something I want to adopt right away.



    Leopard may well arrive with some pretty cool and useful features. But I am not sitting here today thinking, "Man, I really can't wait to see that operating system. I really NEED some of those new features Leopard may or will offer."



    In addition to web surfing and e-mail, my computer use involves my using iMovie '06 and some plug-ins to make a VERY nice chunk of change as a part-time wedding day film maker. It is not very likely at all to happen, but say theoretically Leopard would not run iMovie '06. There would be no reason in the world that I would want to be an early adopter of it even if it had a lot of "hot new and cool features."



    Just my $0.02.







    Therein lies the rub. If Leopard doesn't support iMovie '06 then how many iMovie "power users" will upgrade their OS? What about upgrading their hardware?



    Tiger suits a lot of people just fine. If iMovie '08 doesn't get a decent feature upgrade soon (ala '06), or scrapped altogether, then it just might stay that way. Maybe Apple don't particularly care either way. We live in troubled times...\



    I see a petition has been started... iMovie Petition
  • Reply 246 of 289
    slackulaslackula Posts: 262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MiMac View Post


    Therein lies the rub. If Leopard doesn't support iMovie '06 then how many iMovie "power users" will upgrade their OS? What about upgrading their hardware?



    Tiger suits a lot of people just fine. If iMovie '08 doesn't get a decent feature upgrade soon (ala '06), or scrapped altogether, then it just might stay that way. Maybe Apple don't particularly care either way. We live in troubled times...\



    I see a petition has been started... iMovie Petition





    Well stated!
  • Reply 247 of 289
    bg_nycbg_nyc Posts: 189member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MiMac View Post


    Maybe Apple don't particularly care either way. We live in troubled times...\



    Now that would really really be troubling!!! To show he does care, I say Jobs should offer a 50% discount on FCExp to owners of iLife08!
  • Reply 248 of 289
    mimacmimac Posts: 871member
    Or, just exchange any copy of iLife '08 for a free version of FCE, no questions asked. -
  • Reply 249 of 289
    iLife 08 is great imovie 08 is better for hd cameras that have hard drives and you can make videos on the fly but it is not ment to replace final cut pro or final cut pro express is a begging type software it does need more transitions and they should be free or at a small cost just like in garageband you can buy loops so i hope apple does update imovie to support more transtions.
  • Reply 250 of 289
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post


    Clive, your dream (and mine) of a prosumer tower died a final, last-nail-in-the-coffin, death when the aluminum iMacs were introduced. Steve said "it's an all in one world". I am convinced that Steve only sees two target markets for Macs: consumers with limited talent but lots of money, and pro content producers. The former group supposedly want appliances and the latter huge configurable towers.



    I have yet to see anything you can't do with either a MBP or an iMac that you could do with a "prosumer" tower other than better framerates for games.



    Perhaps there are only two target markets because consumer machines are powerful enough for anyone that really isn't a prosumer. You can edit an indy HDV movie on an iMac for God's sake. WTF more prosumer do you want?



    eSATA off the iMac would be nice...but FW800 is good enough for now. Apple seems to favor fiberchannel for pro use.



    Quote:

    Unfortunately for Steve's vision of what people want, the knowledge and skills of the consumer class are rising daily. This is most noticeable in the desktop market where the name brands are all losing market share to the so-called white boxes, computers assembled by end users or small shops using individually sourced parts.



    Right. Show me that Dell and HP has lost share to whiteboxes. In 2004 whitebox had 38% share (trending down since 2002) down to 28.7% in 2006 according to Gartner. Down nearly 10 points over 2 years sounds like major suckage not major gains.



    http://www.channelpro-digital.com/ch.../200704/?pg=23



    So wrong.



    Vinea
  • Reply 251 of 289
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MiMac View Post


    Therein lies the rub. If Leopard doesn't support iMovie '06 then how many iMovie "power users" will upgrade their OS? What about upgrading their hardware?



    The probability that leopard breaks iLife 06 approaches zero.
  • Reply 252 of 289
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    My complaint is ... import footage into iMovie '08, I have one channel audio. Did the Steve not have this problem with his camera? Funny how everyone who went and bought this great camera, and it is sharp!, is having the same problem with iMovie or FCP 6 with basically 1 channel audio.



    Now, I am stuck with one channel audio in iMovie '08 and FCP 6.0.1. Apple has something screwed up in all their video software right now.



    I like iMovie '08 better because I can churn out a movie in minutes. When I do serious Movie stuff, I have FCP 6.



    There is a thread on Apple discussions. I contacted Panasonic factory in Japan. They blame iMovie. Their response is on the Apple thread. I contacted Apple helpdesk with all this info. They told me to take this serious and are investigating the problem. Hope they will have a solution real soon!



    http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=1076647
  • Reply 253 of 289
    I certainly agree that iMovie 8 is a useless program for me. I like to make quality vacation videos. I am not at the Final Cut level, nor do I feel I want to spend that kind of cash on a program for vacations and special events.



    I can see that if I wanted to replace a segment within an almost finished production without disturbing audio tracks or timing, or try to match the beat of dance steps or playing to an audio track, it would simply be impossible to do in iM8.



    If I just wanted to throw something together, then iM8's a possibility.



    My big problem with many of the people on this and other boards is when they say "you can still download iM6.. what's the problem?". iM6 was never was a perfect program although it was very good, it is still in need of some updating. Do you think that is ever going to happen now that Apple's direction on iMovie has changed? It will soon become outdated with a lack of support. What then?



    Maybe I'm just of a different personality type than Apple is shooting for. I like to craft something that is quality, not just slap some half hearted junk together in 5 minutes just so I can say I posted something to youtube.



    I really hope the folks at Apple realize they have made a mistake and hopefully keep both versions of iMovie going. Next time Steve, do better market research!!
  • Reply 254 of 289
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post


    I certainly agree that iMovie 8 is a useless program for me. I like to make quality vacation videos. I am not at the Final Cut level, nor do I feel I want to spend that kind of cash on a program for vacations and special events.



    I can see that if I wanted to replace a segment within an almost finished production without disturbing audio tracks or timing, or try to match the beat of dance steps or playing to an audio track, it would simply be impossible to do in iM8.



    If I just wanted to throw something together, then iM8's a possibility.



    My big problem with many of the people on this and other boards is when they say "you can still download iM6.. what's the problem?". iM6 was never was a perfect program although it was very good, it is still in need of some updating. Do you think that is ever going to happen now that Apple's direction on iMovie has changed? It will soon become outdated with a lack of support. What then?



    Maybe I'm just of a different personality type than Apple is shooting for. I like to craft something that is quality, not just slap some half hearted junk together in 5 minutes just so I can say I posted something to youtube.



    I really hope the folks at Apple realize they have made a mistake and hopefully keep both versions of iMovie going. Next time Steve, do better market research!!



    I think Apple is wanting you and everyone else that thought iMovie 06 was great for them to move to Final Cut Express. This should be obvious. I do think that iMovie '08 will get updated with some great features but knowing Apple, it might be a year from now before we get them or it might be in January 08. You just don't know with all the secrecy.



    I find iMovie 08 great for quick projects, although I am having some problems with video screen captures at the moment exporting to a QT movie, but I think it is clear that Apple has simplified the process and is pushing us one way or the other.



    I use Final Cut Studio and it is really not hard to pick up on. I do miss the Star Wars intro in iMovie 06 though.



    I think it comes down to selling more FCE seats and making video easier for those less inclined to make them.
  • Reply 255 of 289
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by keeswibra View Post


    There is a thread on Apple discussions. I contacted Panasonic factory in Japan. They blame iMovie. Their response is on the Apple thread. I contacted Apple helpdesk with all this info. They told me to take this serious and are investigating the problem. Hope they will have a solution real soon!



    http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=1076647



    Thanks, I am following the thread but I wonder how serious Apple is about this because this is the exact camera Steve Jobs himself pimped on stage! Pretty pissed right now with a vacation to Hawaii coming up in under 2 months. There is a fix posted and it will do for the time being. ;-) Was sucks as well is the same is true for Final Cut Studio. Now that $$!$ is not acceptable to me after dropping that kind of money into Apple's pocket for professional grade software.
  • Reply 256 of 289
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Seems the argument is over a differing philosophy. Is iMovie a mini Final Cut or is iMovie an app that's supposed to be easy for anyone to use. It seems Apple has decided it to be an app easy for anyone to use. Of course that points anyone who wants certain pro like features towards buying apps instead of using the one that came with the computer.



    I saw this blog posted, doing more with less



    in what he calls a review, david pogue spends the bulk of his time listing the features apple removed from imovie and complaining that now he can?t do what he used to. however in the process, pogue made it perfectly clear that he was using imovie for pro-level like work. and now that he can?t do that anymore, he?s upset because he has to go buy final cut express. i can?t really blame pogue, who wants to pay $250 for features that he was getting for free. but what about all those other people, mr. pogue? the ones who just looked at imovie and said ?i can?t figure this shit out. too many buttons and windows and choices. forget it.?



    after reading pogue?s review i decided to try imovie ?08 for my latest video review. i admit i had to make a few changes to some of the things i normally put in my video reviews but the joy, the joy of being able to quickly select the good parts from all the video i imported, string it together, add titles and the credit screen, and then crop the video from HD to standard definition with 3 clicks? 3 clicks!



    so, mr. pogue, for those of us who aren?t pro level users who refuse to admit it. for people who want to edit video quickly and easily, imovie ?08 is a huge leap forward, not a step back.
  • Reply 257 of 289
    Good find. I am a pro user who likes to fiddle with a movie for hours, but I also like being able to throw something together instantly as I did tonight with footage from my new HG10 AVCHD camera. It was a breeze.



    I bought the camera two days ago and spent the day yesterday driving around taking shots here there and everywhere. When I got home I had about 70 short clips, ranging from 20 seconds to 3 minutes. Clips of mountains, a ferry port, people in a park, birds in the sky, a rocket launching facility, fireworks, a volcano, all shot in super HD. Importing to my iMac did take some time as the files are huge and the cam has a USB 2 (no FW800).



    As I put the movie together, I noticed I wanted to cut most of the audio from the clips (noise from other cars, wild drunks howling, engine noise form the ferry) and add commentary. This was easily done. I also watched a pro documentary this evening and noticed they used only three different transitions during the entire 2 hour show but t looked slick; the focus was on the content. So, I only used three transitions in my movie.



    iMovie '08 made the whole effort a breeze. In the end, I shared to iTunes, my homepage and a QT movie for the heck of it.
  • Reply 258 of 289
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Seems the argument is over a differing philosophy. Is iMovie a mini Final Cut or is iMovie an app that's supposed to be easy for anyone to use. It seems Apple has decided it to be an app easy for anyone to use. Of course that points anyone who wants certain pro like features towards buying apps instead of using the one that came with the computer.



    That's what the discussion was about though. iMovie was never a pro level app, I really didn't think it even had pro like features. I also really don't believe that iMovie 6 was inherently difficult. If a timeline was too difficult to comprehend, that's not a problem, because you didn't have to use the timeline mode. I do agree that iMovie 8 does bring new things to the offering, but I just don't get the rationale on many of the things that it leaves behind.



    If anything needed to be simplified like that, I think it would be Garage Band. I "got" iMovie 6 in minutes, Garage Band was a series of bafflements that I've never surmounted to get a finished project.
  • Reply 259 of 289
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    eSATA off the iMac would be nice...but FW800 is good enough for now. Apple seems to favor fiberchannel for pro use.



    Even some PVR boxes have functioning eSATA ports now. FW800 is too expensive for just about anyone, IMO. At least for the external boxes, it doesn't look like eSATA costs anything extra, FW800 seems to cost an extra $50 per drive. If Apple pushed FW800 into their consumer systems a couple years ago, maybe it wouldn't be a problem.
  • Reply 260 of 289
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    iMovie was never a pro level app, I really didn't think it even had pro like features. I also really don't believe that iMovie 6 was inherently difficult.



    Once you introduce timelines, time code, and multi-track audio. You are most certainly entering "pro like" nomenclature. If you already have a grasp of these concenpts you are ahead of the curve of most people out there. It seems the point of '08 is to shrink the learning curve. The pure test of the ease of '06 or '08 is to have someone who knows nothing about video editing try them both and tell what they think.



    Quote:

    If anything needed to be simplified like that, I think it would be Garage Band.



    Perhaps it plays to a different mind set. I know people who do music and think Garage Band is as simple as it gets.
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