Hi! A quick one: I am new to Apple (not counting my Apple IIe beginnings anymore ), and I have been waiting for this(? hmmm) MBP 15" refresh to finally join the Apple community. Now this refresh comes with a larger graphic card option (512MB) memory...
QUESTION:
Besides the topic whether I would really need so much graphic power (probably not immediately), I am wondering whether the 512 vs. 256MB option will have a noticeable impact on a) battery life of the MBP (since battery life matters quite a bit to me); and b) whether these heat issues that scare the hell out of me would even be worse with the higher end graphic card?
Thanks so much for helping me with the last open question on pro/cons 256<=>512
one piece of advice, if you are running heavy graphic programs, chance are you are not running it with battery.
that being said, i used the 256 vram, and if im running photoshop, it takes a lot of battery life. Btw, MBP is famous for having a low battery life. I would say with certainty, that it will be below your expectation.
That looks odd. Where'd you get the 200GB 5400RPM data from? Isn't the 200GB a 7200RPM drive?
Are you suggesting that the 2.2 to 2.4GHz Santa Rosa should cost more than the 2.4 to 2..5Ghz Penryn upgrade because the clockspeed is only half as much? If so, I've got a 3.0GHz Celeron I'll sell you for the same price as the 2.6GHz Penryn.
- For those lamenting "no case redesign", specifically what redesign do you want (except the magnetic latch)?
You do realize that this thread would have been four times as long already if there HAD been a case redesign - people would all be arguing about the things that were redesigned....
- The combo drive is for schools, and a normal marketing device to get you to buy the next most expensive model.
- No, extra money for 100 mHz is not worth it. Apple always does this to allow those who want "Top Of The Line" to have something to buy. Just realize what the reason is and forget about it.
- Why do you care what the RAM upgrade prices are? Again, this is for people who want a "fully loaded" model and can afford not to worry about the price.
And finally, those claiming that there are "PCs" that have more features and cost less, step forward and show them.
- The case could use a redesign: the hard drive should be replaceable without voiding your warranty, the keyboard is much better on the MacBook (I've owned both), it could use an aesthetic refresh, it heats up way too much, it's too big, heavy, clunky, and fragile (it's better than most competitors, but it could be considerably trimmed and that would be very valuable)
- That's absolutely right about the Combo drive
- The $2,499 one could be worth it to intensive graphics users (twice the video memory, twice the cache, slightly larger and faster hard drive), and, as you say, is to get more money out of price-insensitive customers
- You're right about the memory upgrades
- That's right about the better value PC wailers--show the money
1) Multi-touch trackpads are new tech, you shouldn't expect it on the low-end machine before it had a run on the high-end?
2) The lower L2 is what Intel decided. I'm curious to see how the performance tests will turn out across difference applications.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you think there is an issue with after market RAM (though rare) just swap in the original 2GB and see if it's okay. If not, send that machine to Apple, if it is, then send the 3rd-party RAM to whomever.
1) I suppose you have a good point about expecting it for the next version as opposed to this one. It does make good sense, but that doesn't change wanting it on the MB at thie time.
2) I understand that the lower L2 was Intel's choice. I just wanted to know WHY, and if there will be an increase back to 4mb in the near future.
3) I run a MBP with Apple upgraded RAM, and a MB with G.SKILL RAM that I installed. Both work wonderfully. No complaints. My future RAM upgrades will be aftermarket unless Apple lowers their prices dramatically.
Can you offer good reasons why it needs to have a DVD burner in it? If I could get a MBP with a Combo drive, I would.
Why does it have to need one? It should have one simply because DVD burners are just so damn cheap, there's no excuse not to have one included. They are nickel and diming their customers.
And at the VERY least, they should offer an upgrade option on the base model for $30 or so, instead of requiring the buyer to spend $200 more and get other features they may not care about.
one piece of advice, if you are running heavy graphic programs, chance are you are not running it with battery.
that being said, i used the 256 vram, and if im running photoshop, it takes a lot of battery life. Btw, MBP is famous for having a low battery life. I would say with certainty, that it will be below your expectation.
---
Thanks for your feedback! Let me get a little more precise on what I am looking for:
Q1: I would be using the new MBP 15" in mobile setting (all things equal). Usually "mobile" would mean "no heavy lifiting" on graphics as you pointed out entirely right:
>> Would the simple fact of 256 (vs. 512MB graphics) suck less on my battery, and I could count with about 3-4 hrs (web/office)? (vs. less than 3hrs with the 512 option?)
Q2: Would the 256MB produce less heat when barely used, compared to the 512? Or is there no difference to be expected when used similarly?
Q3: ..and that one actually stems staright from your advice: would heavy lifting drain a 256MB 15" MBP more than the 512, or less?
Can you offer good reasons why it needs to have a DVD burner in it? If I could get a MBP with a Combo drive, I would.
Because it doesn't cost Apple any more to include a superdrive than a combo drive. They could easily include one at the same price point. It's just a stupid marketing tactic. People have been duped into thinking there is some financial incentive for Apple to do this. I was at Best Buy the other day and there was not a single laptop in the $500 to $800 price range that had a combo drive. They all had DVD+/-RW drives as standard. That's right, standard and for as little as half the cost of the MacBook as well.
While I don't think there is a device that will solve everyone's needs so complaining will happen. Some of the stuff I am hearing is ridiculous. Yes the MacBook didn't see as many changes as the Pro, but it was just updated in November. Apple just wanted to get it on Penryn with the MacBook Pro. Can you imagine how many people would complain if the MBP was Penryn and the MB wasn't? As fas as having a combo drive goes, that's the base model and as one person pointed out, it's the one that goes to all the schools.
As to the MacBook Pro complaints, those people probably aren't in the market for a new MBP, whereas me and a lot of others are finally making the switch from a G4 PowerBook to an Intel Mac. That's at least a 4 year wait. I really doubt the .1GHz makes that much difference and I personally couldn't justify the extra dough for the 512VRAM, but I'm also running a 128MB ATI in my powerbook so I am getting quite the advance. If you already have a C2D Macbook Pro, this update probably isn't for you. For people wanting a new case...I think carbonfiber may be out of everyone's price range at the moment. What do you want to see? New keyboard and magnetic latch? Then the next release may be for you.
This was really for people who have to have every single model and those who have been waiting a LONG time to make the switch from Core Duo (not C2D) or a G4, or those looking to switch. If you're already in the game, sit on the bench a little longer and let the rookies take a few hits.
The 15" models have the exact same Superdrive. The 17" model has a slightly faster one.
Sorry you're right. I thought I saw a white line dividing them. For those that don't know there IS a difference between double layer and dual layer. Double layer is DVD+R DL, Dual Layer is DVD-R DL.
- For those lamenting "no case redesign", specifically what redesign do you want (except the magnetic latch)?
The magnetic latch is what most people are referring to when suggesting a case redesign. That is the main issue. There is also the slide out hard drive replacement and modern keyboard. All of these improvements are available on the lower-end MacBook. Otherwise it would remain the same for the most part. Maybe slightly thinner with more rounded edges.
MacBook Pro includes the latest NVIDIA graphics processors
I thought that the 8800M was the "latest" NVIDIA graphics processor for laptops. The previous generation of MBP's already had the 8600M, but with only 256MB video ram max.
Who knows what kind of performance difference there is between the 8600M and 8800M ?
As fas as having a combo drive goes, that's the base model and as one person pointed out, it's the one that goes to all the schools.
And how exactly does that excuse an apple laptop with a DVD burner costing $1299 when PCs for less than half that price include it? And even if you think a $1099 model with no DVD burner is acceptable (which I personally find laughable), how do you excuse a $200 charge to get the burner (which includes other options which the user may or may not need)?
I'd love to see apple do a cheaper, more stripped down model for schools. But it should be more like $599-799. These days, $1099 isn't a budget machine, it's a midpriced one, and the features should live up to the price. Overall they do, but the omission of superdrive is absolutely glaring.
Thanks for your feedback! Let me get a little more precise on what I am looking for:
Q1: I would be using the new MBP 15" in mobile setting (all things equal). Usually "mobile" would mean "no heavy lifiting" on graphics as you pointed out entirely right:
>> Would the simple fact of 256 (vs. 512MB graphics) suck less on my battery, and I could count with about 3-4 hrs (web/office)? (vs. less than 3hrs with the 512 option?)
Q2: Would the 256MB produce less heat when barely used, compared to the 512? Or is there no difference to be expected when used similarly?
Q3: ..and that one actually stems staright from your advice: would heavy lifting drain a 256MB 15" MBP more than the 512, or less?
Thanks again for all feedback!!
For mobility, my best suggetion is to get macbook. but if you still want a MBP, 3 hours maybe good, 4 hours i think is pushing it. If you used the whole 256 vram, most likely you will not get to 3 hours (i am kind of skeptical if it can reach 3 hours). 512 is even less, Apple's battery is nothing special. It is the same as PCs.
Q2: the heat i think you should be more worry about is the cpu. Cause thats the part thats running the whole notebook. In my experience, do not ever put a MBP on your lap. it burns!!!
i think there is an argument out there why apple name their notebook, notebook not laptop. Its because it cannot be place on your lap. As far as the graphics, i think it does not produce as much heat as the cpu. Cause the more graphic you use, the more cpu you use.
Q3: i think it will be about the same cause if you use 64mb of vram in 256 graph card, its the same 64mb of vram in 512 graph card, but, if nvidia has created something more efficient in power usage, that might be the difference worth checking it out.
Comments
Hi! A quick one: I am new to Apple (not counting my Apple IIe beginnings anymore
QUESTION:
Besides the topic whether I would really need so much graphic power (probably not immediately), I am wondering whether the 512 vs. 256MB option will have a noticeable impact on a) battery life of the MBP (since battery life matters quite a bit to me); and b) whether these heat issues that scare the hell out of me would even be worse with the higher end graphic card?
Thanks so much for helping me with the last open question on pro/cons 256<=>512
one piece of advice, if you are running heavy graphic programs, chance are you are not running it with battery.
that being said, i used the 256 vram, and if im running photoshop, it takes a lot of battery life. Btw, MBP is famous for having a low battery life. I would say with certainty, that it will be below your expectation.
That looks odd. Where'd you get the 200GB 5400RPM data from? Isn't the 200GB a 7200RPM drive?
Are you suggesting that the 2.2 to 2.4GHz Santa Rosa should cost more than the 2.4 to 2..5Ghz Penryn upgrade because the clockspeed is only half as much? If so, I've got a 3.0GHz Celeron I'll sell you for the same price as the 2.6GHz Penryn.
Holy shit this is getting insane DVD is now going to be the dying format and the base macbook is still has a combo drive. What a fucking joke.
Can you offer good reasons why it needs to have a DVD burner in it? If I could get a MBP with a Combo drive, I would.
These threads are always hilarious.
- For those lamenting "no case redesign", specifically what redesign do you want (except the magnetic latch)?
You do realize that this thread would have been four times as long already if there HAD been a case redesign - people would all be arguing about the things that were redesigned....
- The combo drive is for schools, and a normal marketing device to get you to buy the next most expensive model.
- No, extra money for 100 mHz is not worth it. Apple always does this to allow those who want "Top Of The Line" to have something to buy. Just realize what the reason is and forget about it.
- Why do you care what the RAM upgrade prices are? Again, this is for people who want a "fully loaded" model and can afford not to worry about the price.
And finally, those claiming that there are "PCs" that have more features and cost less, step forward and show them.
- The case could use a redesign: the hard drive should be replaceable without voiding your warranty, the keyboard is much better on the MacBook (I've owned both), it could use an aesthetic refresh, it heats up way too much, it's too big, heavy, clunky, and fragile (it's better than most competitors, but it could be considerably trimmed and that would be very valuable)
- That's absolutely right about the Combo drive
- The $2,499 one could be worth it to intensive graphics users (twice the video memory, twice the cache, slightly larger and faster hard drive), and, as you say, is to get more money out of price-insensitive customers
- You're right about the memory upgrades
- That's right about the better value PC wailers--show the money
MBP
What I Like:
4GB of Ram is now only $400 for people dumb enough to buy it from Apple instead of NewEgg
The graphics cards are improved.
The upgrade to a 7200rpm drive is now only 50 bucks instead of 150 it was previously.
New Multi-Touch Trackpad
What I Don't Like:
The upgraded MBP 15" doesn't come with the 2.6GHz as standard. Now it's a 250 buck upgrade for 100 Mhz?
No magnetic latch
Lack of some more usb drives on 15"
No LED 15" screens
The Apple Remote is now 19 bucks
The 15" screen have been LED since last June
1) Multi-touch trackpads are new tech, you shouldn't expect it on the low-end machine before it had a run on the high-end?
2) The lower L2 is what Intel decided. I'm curious to see how the performance tests will turn out across difference applications.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you think there is an issue with after market RAM (though rare) just swap in the original 2GB and see if it's okay. If not, send that machine to Apple, if it is, then send the 3rd-party RAM to whomever.
1) I suppose you have a good point about expecting it for the next version as opposed to this one. It does make good sense, but that doesn't change wanting it on the MB at thie time.
2) I understand that the lower L2 was Intel's choice. I just wanted to know WHY, and if there will be an increase back to 4mb in the near future.
3) I run a MBP with Apple upgraded RAM, and a MB with G.SKILL RAM that I installed. Both work wonderfully. No complaints. My future RAM upgrades will be aftermarket unless Apple lowers their prices dramatically.
3mb l2 cache vs 6mb l2 cache
Double layer burner vs dual & double layer burner.
Can you offer good reasons why it needs to have a DVD burner in it? If I could get a MBP with a Combo drive, I would.
Why does it have to need one? It should have one simply because DVD burners are just so damn cheap, there's no excuse not to have one included. They are nickel and diming their customers.
And at the VERY least, they should offer an upgrade option on the base model for $30 or so, instead of requiring the buyer to spend $200 more and get other features they may not care about.
Double layer burner vs dual & double layer burner.
...Huh?
one piece of advice, if you are running heavy graphic programs, chance are you are not running it with battery.
that being said, i used the 256 vram, and if im running photoshop, it takes a lot of battery life. Btw, MBP is famous for having a low battery life. I would say with certainty, that it will be below your expectation.
---
Thanks for your feedback! Let me get a little more precise on what I am looking for:
Q1: I would be using the new MBP 15" in mobile setting (all things equal). Usually "mobile" would mean "no heavy lifiting" on graphics as you pointed out entirely right:
>> Would the simple fact of 256 (vs. 512MB graphics) suck less on my battery, and I could count with about 3-4 hrs (web/office)? (vs. less than 3hrs with the 512 option?)
Q2: Would the 256MB produce less heat when barely used, compared to the 512? Or is there no difference to be expected when used similarly?
Q3: ..and that one actually stems staright from your advice: would heavy lifting drain a 256MB 15" MBP more than the 512, or less?
Thanks again for all feedback!!
OK 2 more differences between low-end MBP and high-end MBP (15")
3mb l2 cache vs 6mb l2 cache
Double layer burner vs dual & double layer burner.
The 15" models have the exact same Superdrive. The 17" model has a slightly faster one.
Can you offer good reasons why it needs to have a DVD burner in it? If I could get a MBP with a Combo drive, I would.
Because it doesn't cost Apple any more to include a superdrive than a combo drive. They could easily include one at the same price point. It's just a stupid marketing tactic. People have been duped into thinking there is some financial incentive for Apple to do this. I was at Best Buy the other day and there was not a single laptop in the $500 to $800 price range that had a combo drive. They all had DVD+/-RW drives as standard. That's right, standard and for as little as half the cost of the MacBook as well.
As to the MacBook Pro complaints, those people probably aren't in the market for a new MBP, whereas me and a lot of others are finally making the switch from a G4 PowerBook to an Intel Mac. That's at least a 4 year wait. I really doubt the .1GHz makes that much difference and I personally couldn't justify the extra dough for the 512VRAM, but I'm also running a 128MB ATI in my powerbook so I am getting quite the advance. If you already have a C2D Macbook Pro, this update probably isn't for you. For people wanting a new case...I think carbonfiber may be out of everyone's price range at the moment. What do you want to see? New keyboard and magnetic latch? Then the next release may be for you.
This was really for people who have to have every single model and those who have been waiting a LONG time to make the switch from Core Duo (not C2D) or a G4, or those looking to switch. If you're already in the game, sit on the bench a little longer and let the rookies take a few hits.
The 15" models have the exact same Superdrive. The 17" model has a slightly faster one.
Sorry you're right. I thought I saw a white line dividing them. For those that don't know there IS a difference between double layer and dual layer. Double layer is DVD+R DL, Dual Layer is DVD-R DL.
These threads are always hilarious.
- For those lamenting "no case redesign", specifically what redesign do you want (except the magnetic latch)?
The magnetic latch is what most people are referring to when suggesting a case redesign. That is the main issue. There is also the slide out hard drive replacement and modern keyboard. All of these improvements are available on the lower-end MacBook. Otherwise it would remain the same for the most part. Maybe slightly thinner with more rounded edges.
I thought that the 8800M was the "latest" NVIDIA graphics processor for laptops. The previous generation of MBP's already had the 8600M, but with only 256MB video ram max.
Who knows what kind of performance difference there is between the 8600M and 8800M ?
Ian
depends on what kind of work you are using. If you are using word, excel, chatting and web browsing, you hardly used 2gb of ram.
Just don't buy extra RAM from Apple. OWC has 4GB for about $100. At that price, just max it out anyways.
As fas as having a combo drive goes, that's the base model and as one person pointed out, it's the one that goes to all the schools.
And how exactly does that excuse an apple laptop with a DVD burner costing $1299 when PCs for less than half that price include it? And even if you think a $1099 model with no DVD burner is acceptable (which I personally find laughable), how do you excuse a $200 charge to get the burner (which includes other options which the user may or may not need)?
I'd love to see apple do a cheaper, more stripped down model for schools. But it should be more like $599-799. These days, $1099 isn't a budget machine, it's a midpriced one, and the features should live up to the price. Overall they do, but the omission of superdrive is absolutely glaring.
---
Thanks for your feedback! Let me get a little more precise on what I am looking for:
Q1: I would be using the new MBP 15" in mobile setting (all things equal). Usually "mobile" would mean "no heavy lifiting" on graphics as you pointed out entirely right:
>> Would the simple fact of 256 (vs. 512MB graphics) suck less on my battery, and I could count with about 3-4 hrs (web/office)? (vs. less than 3hrs with the 512 option?)
Q2: Would the 256MB produce less heat when barely used, compared to the 512? Or is there no difference to be expected when used similarly?
Q3: ..and that one actually stems staright from your advice: would heavy lifting drain a 256MB 15" MBP more than the 512, or less?
Thanks again for all feedback!!
For mobility, my best suggetion is to get macbook. but if you still want a MBP, 3 hours maybe good, 4 hours i think is pushing it. If you used the whole 256 vram, most likely you will not get to 3 hours (i am kind of skeptical if it can reach 3 hours). 512 is even less, Apple's battery is nothing special. It is the same as PCs.
Q2: the heat i think you should be more worry about is the cpu. Cause thats the part thats running the whole notebook. In my experience, do not ever put a MBP on your lap. it burns!!!
i think there is an argument out there why apple name their notebook, notebook not laptop. Its because it cannot be place on your lap. As far as the graphics, i think it does not produce as much heat as the cpu. Cause the more graphic you use, the more cpu you use.
Q3: i think it will be about the same cause if you use 64mb of vram in 256 graph card, its the same 64mb of vram in 512 graph card, but, if nvidia has created something more efficient in power usage, that might be the difference worth checking it out.