Wow, it sure is a good thing we're down to a single format
Yup, it sure is. BTW, loved the article, the Blu-ray market is officially stalled based on a blog on the internet that spews nothing new that we don't get from former HD DVD zealots even today...and this conclusion based on data between January and February...typically the slower months of the retail period...priceless.
If we see this come holiday time and when there are better movies available, then you can call the "market stalled" card,...until then, the article and your conclusion are much ado about nothing.
Netflix sees an opening where they can charge a premium, so their doing it...and all in the name of profitability.
My concern is that this "opening where they can charge a premium" is exactly what the studios are doing with the Blu-Ray format as a whole, and that non-competitive pricing is going to stagnate Blu-Ray adoption. I'm not entirely convinced the studios want to replace DVD with Blu-Ray, so much as they want to offer a premium product with 30-50% higher profits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7
Moreover, you can most certainly find Blu-ray discs at a cheaper price than $35-$40 out there, you are just simply pandering to the highest price you can find to justify your weak argument.
List price is list price, regardless of what kind of deals you can find on teh internets. Higher list prices lead to higher retail prices, and mark-ups from rental houses. And those are the prices consumers considering Blu-Ray will see, not Amazon pricing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7
If we see this come holiday time and when there are better movies available, then you can call the "market stalled" card,...until then, the article and your conclusion are much ado about nothing.
So a sales decline only counts if it happens at the Holidays, even when the decline happens two months after the death of the competing format that was supposedly responsible for restraining a flood of potential sales? I see.
Is it all that justified when the Blu-ray discs actually last longer because of their protective coating...
Oh not this again. BR has to have a heavier coating because the data resides much closer to the surface (0.1mm) than it is on a DVD (0.6mm). In the end, it's a wash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7
...and this conclusion based on data between January and February...typically the slower months of the retail period...priceless.
It doesn't matter if those months are generally slower. There should still be a decent increase from January to February and March. After all, the war is over, and retail is probably as good as it may get headed into a possible recession.
If food costs and gas continue to rise, J6P ain't buying 70" TVs and $400. disc players no more.
A new report shows the Blu-ray disc player sales are falling, despite Toshiba dropping its HD DVD format players back in February. The sales of Blu-ray disc players were expected to skyrocket but a NPD Group study found the opposite. US sales of standalone Blu-ray players fell 40 percent from January to February, still in the midst of the HD DVD fall, before increasing by just two percent in March. This leads many to believe the price of Blu-ray players and media still isn't low enough for mainstream adoption.
Bwahahahaahahaahhahahahahahhah. Ahhh the great thing about aging is seeing through the BS of the media.
"Consumers are waiting for this war to end before jumping in" "This war is causing people to be afraid of choosing the wrong player" "People want the superior technology of Blu-ray"
I knew these people were full of shat. Price trumps just about all and even without HD DVD in the midst people aren't going to spend $400 for a Blu-ray player. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wake me up when a decent profile 2.0 player is selling for $250.
Bwahahahaahahaahhahahahahahhah. Ahhh the great thing about aging is seeing through the BS of the media.
"Consumers are waiting for this war to end before jumping in" "This war is causing people to be afraid of choosing the wrong player" "People want the superior technology of Blu-ray"
I knew these people were full of shat. Price trumps just about all and even without HD DVD in the midst people aren't going to spend $400 for a Blu-ray player. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wake me up when a decent profile 2.0 player is selling for $250.
but people like you DID spend $800 on a SECOND HD-DVD player... go on now, defend that move oh stunning wonder who misses the fact that jan and feb are lean months in retail.
but people like you DID spend $800 on a SECOND HD-DVD player... go on now, defend that move oh stunning wonder who misses the fact that jan and feb are lean months in retail.
Lean Shmean. If Microsoft dropped off the face of the Earth tomorrow, and Apple's sales didn't increase ten fold in the months following, people would start to think consumers didn't want Apple products even if they were the last operating system on the face of the Earth. Likewise with Blu-Ray now. It's obvious now that the format war had nothing to do with HDM adoption rates, or lack-thereof.
My reply went off on a tangent a little, but I haven't posted much here for a while, so these are my thoughts currently I guess. {I can honestly say without ego that they are as much value as anyone elses posts on this thread }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer
It's obvious now that the format war had nothing to do with HDM adoption rates, or lack-thereof.
Jeez, must have missed the post that you made retracting all the other posts you made saying the opposite.
I'd agree in principal with a few other posters here that say, if there isn't a noticeable uptick by xmas 2008 then it won't look good for BD, xmas 2009 will be even tougher if this happens.
I think everyone with a brain (morans included ) understands that BD IS now the standard Hi-def optical format.
Downloads are only going to confuse the matter really, in terms of movie delivery, Apple have ramped up the download attack with aTV version2, with movie RENTALS (still not over here though damn it!) an (albeit slowly) increasing movie selection with ALL the studios behind them and now the ability to BUY the larger selection of movies (ok its only the SD selection but its a start)
I'm all for Apple pushing forward, even if it makes it harder for BD, I havent tried the movie download service yet, so I honestly don't know what change it might bring to how I enjoy movies. in the mean time I have tried disc biased movies, and I intend to continue to do that for some time to come.
Whats best for the download (actual file size) isnt always best for the movie (compression) so it appears BD has the upper hand in terms of quality and perceived "normal" delivery method, but Apple want to challenge your perceptions (and thats a good thing) and really BD will start to face competition from them in a big way over the next year.. while BD has "won the war" and has become the only game in town WRT movie on a disc it has all of the pie to itself and people KNOW and TRUST discs and there is an installed mentality that says movies "NOW" come on discs thats the way life is. I think "We" all buy into the untruth that "We" know what tech is cool, but the average Joe doesn't post here, infact might not eve post at all! :O imagine.
Apple face an up hill fight also first with the studios, who are more wary of loosing control of pricing this time around, and with the public at large perception of what Apple stands for "they are just that iPod company, who wants to watch movies on an iPod.. where do you load the disc? pfft.. I couldnt be bothered with that"
If you think its tough selling a punter on hi-def optical disc, something they have a perceptual grasp on (as well as physical) then how do you think they perceive the aTV? I am reminded of the famous solid snake line "its just a box" so Apple, while being the biggest seller of movie downloads might have pretty much all of that pie to themselves, they too face an up hill struggle against BD.
Who will win?
Will it be Apple on the back of the success of music downloads and the momentum that brings?
or will it be BD the next optical disc format for the masses, with discs being a proven quantity?
difficult to predict, some times I think Apple has no chance and sometimes I think BD has no chance.
Jeez, must have missed the post that you made retracting all the other posts you made saying the opposite.
Actually, I was a firm believer that both formats would live on together in harmony in the form of inexpensive dual-format players. I never really felt like one format was holding back the other from instantaneous world domination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
Who will win?
Will it be Apple on the back of the success of music downloads and the momentum that brings?
or will it be BD the next optical disc format for the masses, with discs being a proven quantity?
I'm thinking DVD may remain the dominant format for another decade. Whether HD comes on a disc or as a download, it still has the same inherent problem; most people are fine with regular DVD. So unless Apple or Sony start giving away HD playback devices for free, their market's limited to the 25% of HDTV owners who appreciate the difference enough to pay for something better.
Anyone who still says AppleTVs will get a BR drive should have their brain inspected.
Well Personally I dont see the need for day and date releasing, I find its cheaper to wait, true I have bought one or two titles on release, but thats VERY rare for me.
IMO Apple TV downloads are all about convenience and doing things when YOU want to, so on release day, I might not want to bother or have something else on. but I KNOW its there, just takes a moment to click.
I've ALWAYS been of the opinion that people who think the aTV need a DVD drive (while magically staying the same size) need to remove themselves from the gene pool pronto
BR is equally unlikely, but is slightly more possible if you only day dream.
I've ALWAYS been of the opinion that people who think the aTV need a DVD drive (while magically staying the same size) need to remove themselves from the gene pool pronto
You're right, same thing also applies to Sony PS3 and it's capability of HiDef movie/media format playback & download services to compete with other competitor like M$ and Apple?
Nonetheless, it's becoming more apparent that the HiDef optical disc movie format still struggles to reach a successful niche market status. It seems that Blu-ray disc format is in no condition to compete with even the downloadable movie market right now. And you know that the downloadable services will probably grow at faster rate than the HDM optical market will.
You're right, same thing also applies to Sony PS3 and it's capability of HiDef movie/media format playback & download services to compete with other competitor like M$ and Apple?
Nonetheless, it's becoming more apparent that the HiDef optical disc movie format still struggles to reach a successful niche market status. It seems that Blu-ray disc format is in no condition to compete with even the downloadable movie market right now. And you know that the downloadable services will probably grow at faster rate than the HDM optical market will.
What?
Its really clear that You don't "get" me and I don't "get" you in terms of opinions..
maybe they will grow faster, maybe they won't
I Personally can't access the movie downloads here, and the TV show downloads are either repeated on the FREE digital channels which I can record and pass to the aTV or watch again on an online catch up service FOR FREE or indeed buy the DVDs for the same or less money..
what do I use my aTV for then? the convenience of one simple remote and access to all the stuff I've recorded (long ago I moved away from the 4/5 hours in front of the TV most evenings)
I can use the PS3s browser to watch those FREE online catch up services if I want.
the comments I see left from UK itunes customers about the TV content is that its FAR too expensive.
but whatever,
ask yourself this though.. how many MILLION PS3s have Sony sold? and how many HUNDREDS of thousands of aTVs have Apple sold?
then wonder at which format will catch on faster?
--
the point of my earlier post was that Disc is ingrained as a medium/format and has all the studios now behind ONE hi-def format which is a few plus' for it.. but that equally iTunes/iPod has BECOME ingrained in a shorter time, however the Studios seem to not want Apple to dominate and some (NBC) are outright hostile.
Most of you are forgetting one essential thing. The common person in the vast majority of the U.S. still have no idea what HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is, why it's better, or why they would even bother to care when the VCR/DVD player on top their current TV plays the movies they want to watch just fine right now. without any new equipment. And they can buy the movie for $7.99.
So even if and when they're educated as to what they players do, why would they spend $2000 for a TV and player that the common person can't even tell a difference on?
Most of you are forgetting one essential thing. The common person in the vast majority of the U.S. still have no idea what HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is, why it's better, or why they would even bother to care when the VCR/DVD player on top their current TV plays the movies they want to watch just fine right now. without any new equipment. And they can buy the movie for $7.99.
So even if and when they're educated as to what they players do, why would they spend $2000 for a TV and player that the common person can't even tell a difference on?
No this isn't true. People don't know the ins and outs of the format war but they do know there were two formats vying for HD supremacy. They know that the first players were closer to $1000 than $100 and that the movies are expensive.
The consumer (in the US) is not dumb. You're just not going to get them to pay $400 for a player for the right to buy $34.99 movies. This is what I LOVE about America. We are are not afraid to give your product the finger until you bring it down to affordable pricing.
Most of you are forgetting one essential thing. The common person in the vast majority of the U.S. still have no idea what HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is, why it's better, or why they would even bother to care when the VCR/DVD player on top their current TV plays the movies they want to watch just fine right now. without any new equipment. And they can buy the movie for $7.99.
So even if and when they're educated as to what they players do, why would they spend $2000 for a TV and player that the common person can't even tell a difference on?
and you forget one thing too, america does not equal the whole world
No this isn't true. People don't know the ins and outs of the format war but they do know there were two formats vying for HD supremacy. They know that the first players were closer to $1000 than $100 and that the movies are expensive.
The consumer (in the US) is not dumb. You're just not going to get them to pay $400 for a player for the right to buy $34.99 movies. This is what I LOVE about America. We are are not afraid to give your product the finger until you bring it down to affordable pricing.
well YOU mustn't be a consumer then, because YOU DIDN'T give a second $800 player the finger...
.. hold on.. does that mean you were afraid?
who were you afraid of then Toshiba (not paying you) or the like totally evil BDA?
ask yourself this though.. how many MILLION PS3s have Sony sold? and how many HUNDREDS of thousands of aTVs have Apple sold?
Don't need appleTV, but just need to have iTunes intalled on the Mac and PC.
How does number of iTunes users compare to "MILLION PSs sold by Sony"?
There's a huge difference when considering 5% iTunes user adoptions vs. 5% PS3 owner adoption.
As much as I would like to enjoy HDM's at home, I would also like to see the HDM optical market grow. However, the current market does point to different direction for now regardless of the claimed single HDM optical format which was preferred by the industry. It's very sad, indeed.
Oh not this again. BR has to have a heavier coating because the data resides much closer to the surface (0.1mm) than it is on a DVD (0.6mm). In the end, it's a wash.
It doesn't matter if those months are generally slower. There should still be a decent increase from January to February and March. After all, the war is over, and retail is probably as good as it may get headed into a possible recession.
If food costs and gas continue to rise, J6P ain't buying 70" TVs and $400. disc players no more.
Most of the studies showing the superiority of the protective coating--Durabis2 or a Durabis2 type equivalent disagree with you. It doesn't matter that the data resides much closer to the surface (as this is what makes BR capable of holding more data and supporting more layers), because in the end, all empiracle data shows that it is not a wash, but that BR is indeed superior when it comes to durability--as HD DVD employed nothing new in terms of disc protection than your plain vanilla DVD.
On your second point, I would agree with you, the current state of the economy probably does have something to do with what is typically already lean months in terms of retail. Furthermore, a lot to do with the selling of players has to do with the content that is available as well. Meaning, the movies that have been coming out in January and February aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. When you start seeing movies like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Matrix, Transformers, Bourne series, and the other popular Universal and Paramount titles start hitting the street on Blu-ray, I'm sure you'll see an uptick in sales of players.
Sure price can stand to come down, and you'll probably see it as we creep closer to the holidays, in the meantime, what is mandatory that would cause the BDA to simply and arbitrarily sell players at $199 right now? I can see the cause toward the holiday (stimulating mass adoption), but for now, I see it as a smart business decision to maximize their profit, especially during the slow retail season.
Anyone who still says AppleTVs will get a BR drive should have their brain inspected.
I'm not sure anyone is saying that the aTV WILL get a BR drive, but it sure would be nice to have a BR drive--IF they had some sort of DVR functionality in the device. That way, you could off-load your recordings onto disc. I think that would be sweet.
Lean Shmean. If Microsoft dropped off the face of the Earth tomorrow, and Apple's sales didn't increase ten fold in the months following, people would start to think consumers didn't want Apple products even if they were the last operating system on the face of the Earth. Likewise with Blu-Ray now. It's obvious now that the format war had nothing to do with HDM adoption rates, or lack-thereof.
It's obvious from two months of data...two months that are generally slow in terms of retail...? I wouldn't call it obvious, I would call it interesting, and wait to see how the market progresses in the coming months. Anything else, just seems a bit jaded to me...as if there is a large chip on some HD DVD backers' shoulders.
Comments
Wow, it sure is a good thing we're down to a single format
Yup, it sure is. BTW, loved the article, the Blu-ray market is officially stalled based on a blog on the internet that spews nothing new that we don't get from former HD DVD zealots even today...and this conclusion based on data between January and February...typically the slower months of the retail period...priceless.
If we see this come holiday time and when there are better movies available, then you can call the "market stalled" card,...until then, the article and your conclusion are much ado about nothing.
Netflix sees an opening where they can charge a premium, so their doing it...and all in the name of profitability.
My concern is that this "opening where they can charge a premium" is exactly what the studios are doing with the Blu-Ray format as a whole, and that non-competitive pricing is going to stagnate Blu-Ray adoption. I'm not entirely convinced the studios want to replace DVD with Blu-Ray, so much as they want to offer a premium product with 30-50% higher profits.
Moreover, you can most certainly find Blu-ray discs at a cheaper price than $35-$40 out there, you are just simply pandering to the highest price you can find to justify your weak argument.
List price is list price, regardless of what kind of deals you can find on teh internets. Higher list prices lead to higher retail prices, and mark-ups from rental houses. And those are the prices consumers considering Blu-Ray will see, not Amazon pricing.
If we see this come holiday time and when there are better movies available, then you can call the "market stalled" card,...until then, the article and your conclusion are much ado about nothing.
So a sales decline only counts if it happens at the Holidays, even when the decline happens two months after the death of the competing format that was supposedly responsible for restraining a flood of potential sales? I see.
Is it all that justified when the Blu-ray discs actually last longer because of their protective coating...
Oh not this again. BR has to have a heavier coating because the data resides much closer to the surface (0.1mm) than it is on a DVD (0.6mm). In the end, it's a wash.
...and this conclusion based on data between January and February...typically the slower months of the retail period...priceless.
It doesn't matter if those months are generally slower. There should still be a decent increase from January to February and March. After all, the war is over, and retail is probably as good as it may get headed into a possible recession.
If food costs and gas continue to rise, J6P ain't buying 70" TVs and $400. disc players no more.
A new report shows the Blu-ray disc player sales are falling, despite Toshiba dropping its HD DVD format players back in February. The sales of Blu-ray disc players were expected to skyrocket but a NPD Group study found the opposite. US sales of standalone Blu-ray players fell 40 percent from January to February, still in the midst of the HD DVD fall, before increasing by just two percent in March. This leads many to believe the price of Blu-ray players and media still isn't low enough for mainstream adoption.
Bwahahahaahahaahhahahahahahhah. Ahhh the great thing about aging is seeing through the BS of the media.
"Consumers are waiting for this war to end before jumping in" "This war is causing people to be afraid of choosing the wrong player" "People want the superior technology of Blu-ray"
I knew these people were full of shat. Price trumps just about all and even without HD DVD in the midst people aren't going to spend $400 for a Blu-ray player. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wake me up when a decent profile 2.0 player is selling for $250.
http://www.electronista.com/articles...ictory.hollow/
Bwahahahaahahaahhahahahahahhah. Ahhh the great thing about aging is seeing through the BS of the media.
"Consumers are waiting for this war to end before jumping in" "This war is causing people to be afraid of choosing the wrong player" "People want the superior technology of Blu-ray"
I knew these people were full of shat. Price trumps just about all and even without HD DVD in the midst people aren't going to spend $400 for a Blu-ray player. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wake me up when a decent profile 2.0 player is selling for $250.
but people like you DID spend $800 on a SECOND HD-DVD player... go on now, defend that move oh stunning wonder who misses the fact that jan and feb are lean months in retail.
but people like you DID spend $800 on a SECOND HD-DVD player... go on now, defend that move oh stunning wonder who misses the fact that jan and feb are lean months in retail.
Lean Shmean. If Microsoft dropped off the face of the Earth tomorrow, and Apple's sales didn't increase ten fold in the months following, people would start to think consumers didn't want Apple products even if they were the last operating system on the face of the Earth. Likewise with Blu-Ray now. It's obvious now that the format war had nothing to do with HDM adoption rates, or lack-thereof.
It's obvious now that the format war had nothing to do with HDM adoption rates, or lack-thereof.
Jeez, must have missed the post that you made retracting all the other posts you made saying the opposite.
I'd agree in principal with a few other posters here that say, if there isn't a noticeable uptick by xmas 2008 then it won't look good for BD, xmas 2009 will be even tougher if this happens.
I think everyone with a brain (morans included
Downloads are only going to confuse the matter really, in terms of movie delivery, Apple have ramped up the download attack with aTV version2, with movie RENTALS (still not over here though damn it!) an (albeit slowly) increasing movie selection with ALL the studios behind them and now the ability to BUY the larger selection of movies (ok its only the SD selection but its a start)
I'm all for Apple pushing forward, even if it makes it harder for BD, I havent tried the movie download service yet, so I honestly don't know what change it might bring to how I enjoy movies. in the mean time I have tried disc biased movies, and I intend to continue to do that for some time to come.
Whats best for the download (actual file size) isnt always best for the movie (compression) so it appears BD has the upper hand in terms of quality and perceived "normal" delivery method, but Apple want to challenge your perceptions (and thats a good thing) and really BD will start to face competition from them in a big way over the next year.. while BD has "won the war" and has become the only game in town WRT movie on a disc it has all of the pie to itself and people KNOW and TRUST discs and there is an installed mentality that says movies "NOW" come on discs thats the way life is. I think "We" all buy into the untruth that "We" know what tech is cool, but the average Joe doesn't post here, infact might not eve post at all! :O imagine.
Apple face an up hill fight also first with the studios, who are more wary of loosing control of pricing this time around, and with the public at large perception of what Apple stands for "they are just that iPod company, who wants to watch movies on an iPod.. where do you load the disc? pfft.. I couldnt be bothered with that"
If you think its tough selling a punter on hi-def optical disc, something they have a perceptual grasp on (as well as physical) then how do you think they perceive the aTV? I am reminded of the famous solid snake line "its just a box" so Apple, while being the biggest seller of movie downloads might have pretty much all of that pie to themselves, they too face an up hill struggle against BD.
Who will win?
Will it be Apple on the back of the success of music downloads and the momentum that brings?
or will it be BD the next optical disc format for the masses, with discs being a proven quantity?
difficult to predict, some times I think Apple has no chance and sometimes I think BD has no chance.
lets wait and see what xmas brings
Jeez, must have missed the post that you made retracting all the other posts you made saying the opposite.
Actually, I was a firm believer that both formats would live on together in harmony in the form of inexpensive dual-format players. I never really felt like one format was holding back the other from instantaneous world domination.
Who will win?
Will it be Apple on the back of the success of music downloads and the momentum that brings?
or will it be BD the next optical disc format for the masses, with discs being a proven quantity?
I'm thinking DVD may remain the dominant format for another decade. Whether HD comes on a disc or as a download, it still has the same inherent problem; most people are fine with regular DVD. So unless Apple or Sony start giving away HD playback devices for free, their market's limited to the 25% of HDTV owners who appreciate the difference enough to pay for something better.
Anyone who still says AppleTVs will get a BR drive should have their brain inspected.
I'm surprised no one's commented on Apple's announcement that iTunes movies will now go head to head with disc sales.
Anyone who still says AppleTVs will get a BR drive should have their brain inspected.
Well Personally I dont see the need for day and date releasing, I find its cheaper to wait, true I have bought one or two titles on release, but thats VERY rare for me.
IMO Apple TV downloads are all about convenience and doing things when YOU want to, so on release day, I might not want to bother or have something else on. but I KNOW its there, just takes a moment to click.
I've ALWAYS been of the opinion that people who think the aTV need a DVD drive (while magically staying the same size) need to remove themselves from the gene pool pronto
BR is equally unlikely, but is slightly more possible if you only day dream.
I've ALWAYS been of the opinion that people who think the aTV need a DVD drive (while magically staying the same size) need to remove themselves from the gene pool pronto
You're right, same thing also applies to Sony PS3 and it's capability of HiDef movie/media format playback & download services to compete with other competitor like M$ and Apple?
Nonetheless, it's becoming more apparent that the HiDef optical disc movie format still struggles to reach a successful niche market status. It seems that Blu-ray disc format is in no condition to compete with even the downloadable movie market right now. And you know that the downloadable services will probably grow at faster rate than the HDM optical market will.
You're right, same thing also applies to Sony PS3 and it's capability of HiDef movie/media format playback & download services to compete with other competitor like M$ and Apple?
Nonetheless, it's becoming more apparent that the HiDef optical disc movie format still struggles to reach a successful niche market status. It seems that Blu-ray disc format is in no condition to compete with even the downloadable movie market right now. And you know that the downloadable services will probably grow at faster rate than the HDM optical market will.
What?
Its really clear that You don't "get" me and I don't "get" you in terms of opinions..
maybe they will grow faster, maybe they won't
I Personally can't access the movie downloads here, and the TV show downloads are either repeated on the FREE digital channels which I can record and pass to the aTV or watch again on an online catch up service FOR FREE or indeed buy the DVDs for the same or less money..
what do I use my aTV for then? the convenience of one simple remote and access to all the stuff I've recorded (long ago I moved away from the 4/5 hours in front of the TV most evenings)
I can use the PS3s browser to watch those FREE online catch up services if I want.
the comments I see left from UK itunes customers about the TV content is that its FAR too expensive.
but whatever,
ask yourself this though.. how many MILLION PS3s have Sony sold? and how many HUNDREDS of thousands of aTVs have Apple sold?
then wonder at which format will catch on faster?
--
the point of my earlier post was that Disc is ingrained as a medium/format and has all the studios now behind ONE hi-def format which is a few plus' for it.. but that equally iTunes/iPod has BECOME ingrained in a shorter time, however the Studios seem to not want Apple to dominate and some (NBC) are outright hostile.
It will be interesting to reflect
So even if and when they're educated as to what they players do, why would they spend $2000 for a TV and player that the common person can't even tell a difference on?
Most of you are forgetting one essential thing. The common person in the vast majority of the U.S. still have no idea what HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is, why it's better, or why they would even bother to care when the VCR/DVD player on top their current TV plays the movies they want to watch just fine right now. without any new equipment. And they can buy the movie for $7.99.
So even if and when they're educated as to what they players do, why would they spend $2000 for a TV and player that the common person can't even tell a difference on?
No this isn't true. People don't know the ins and outs of the format war but they do know there were two formats vying for HD supremacy. They know that the first players were closer to $1000 than $100 and that the movies are expensive.
The consumer (in the US) is not dumb. You're just not going to get them to pay $400 for a player for the right to buy $34.99 movies. This is what I LOVE about America. We are are not afraid to give your product the finger until you bring it down to affordable pricing.
Most of you are forgetting one essential thing. The common person in the vast majority of the U.S. still have no idea what HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is, why it's better, or why they would even bother to care when the VCR/DVD player on top their current TV plays the movies they want to watch just fine right now. without any new equipment. And they can buy the movie for $7.99.
So even if and when they're educated as to what they players do, why would they spend $2000 for a TV and player that the common person can't even tell a difference on?
and you forget one thing too, america does not equal the whole world
No this isn't true. People don't know the ins and outs of the format war but they do know there were two formats vying for HD supremacy. They know that the first players were closer to $1000 than $100 and that the movies are expensive.
The consumer (in the US) is not dumb. You're just not going to get them to pay $400 for a player for the right to buy $34.99 movies. This is what I LOVE about America. We are are not afraid to give your product the finger until you bring it down to affordable pricing.
well YOU mustn't be a consumer then, because YOU DIDN'T give a second $800 player the finger...
.. hold on.. does that mean you were afraid?
who were you afraid of then Toshiba (not paying you) or the like totally evil BDA?
ask yourself this though.. how many MILLION PS3s have Sony sold? and how many HUNDREDS of thousands of aTVs have Apple sold?
Don't need appleTV, but just need to have iTunes intalled on the Mac and PC.
How does number of iTunes users compare to "MILLION PSs sold by Sony"?
There's a huge difference when considering 5% iTunes user adoptions vs. 5% PS3 owner adoption.
As much as I would like to enjoy HDM's at home, I would also like to see the HDM optical market grow. However, the current market does point to different direction for now regardless of the claimed single HDM optical format which was preferred by the industry. It's very sad, indeed.
Oh not this again. BR has to have a heavier coating because the data resides much closer to the surface (0.1mm) than it is on a DVD (0.6mm). In the end, it's a wash.
It doesn't matter if those months are generally slower. There should still be a decent increase from January to February and March. After all, the war is over, and retail is probably as good as it may get headed into a possible recession.
If food costs and gas continue to rise, J6P ain't buying 70" TVs and $400. disc players no more.
Most of the studies showing the superiority of the protective coating--Durabis2 or a Durabis2 type equivalent disagree with you. It doesn't matter that the data resides much closer to the surface (as this is what makes BR capable of holding more data and supporting more layers), because in the end, all empiracle data shows that it is not a wash, but that BR is indeed superior when it comes to durability--as HD DVD employed nothing new in terms of disc protection than your plain vanilla DVD.
On your second point, I would agree with you, the current state of the economy probably does have something to do with what is typically already lean months in terms of retail. Furthermore, a lot to do with the selling of players has to do with the content that is available as well. Meaning, the movies that have been coming out in January and February aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. When you start seeing movies like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Matrix, Transformers, Bourne series, and the other popular Universal and Paramount titles start hitting the street on Blu-ray, I'm sure you'll see an uptick in sales of players.
Sure price can stand to come down, and you'll probably see it as we creep closer to the holidays, in the meantime, what is mandatory that would cause the BDA to simply and arbitrarily sell players at $199 right now? I can see the cause toward the holiday (stimulating mass adoption), but for now, I see it as a smart business decision to maximize their profit, especially during the slow retail season.
I'm surprised no one's commented on Apple's announcement that iTunes movies will now go head to head with disc sales.
Anyone who still says AppleTVs will get a BR drive should have their brain inspected.
I'm not sure anyone is saying that the aTV WILL get a BR drive, but it sure would be nice to have a BR drive--IF they had some sort of DVR functionality in the device. That way, you could off-load your recordings onto disc. I think that would be sweet.
Lean Shmean. If Microsoft dropped off the face of the Earth tomorrow, and Apple's sales didn't increase ten fold in the months following, people would start to think consumers didn't want Apple products even if they were the last operating system on the face of the Earth. Likewise with Blu-Ray now. It's obvious now that the format war had nothing to do with HDM adoption rates, or lack-thereof.
It's obvious from two months of data...two months that are generally slow in terms of retail...? I wouldn't call it obvious, I would call it interesting, and wait to see how the market progresses in the coming months. Anything else, just seems a bit jaded to me...as if there is a large chip on some HD DVD backers' shoulders.