The largest Apple retailer, is actually Apple itself at its Apple Retail Stores.
Guess what Apples uses to enable mobile retail (the apple sales folks walking around with giant PDAs)?
It's a Windows CE device!
Tell me about it and the BOH (Apple speak for BACK OF HOUSE) didn't update to Leopard until just a few months ago and having been in there a few times, I managed to get a screen shot of the computers running NORTON Anti Virus. How Ironic is that?
Yes, it's true. If you work in an Apple store, anyone can confirm this.
Along with Daily D, ARW, Business Widget, Family and Friends (3), Personal 1 (15%/25%), cages, iPhone runner,
What I still don't get (and I use a mac more these days) is that, the reason people think WOW, that's so cool done on a mac is that only 9% of the population will have every seen iWork templates, DVD Studio Pro, or FCP/Motion templates. Plus of course, all the times Bill has bailed Apple out!
You also don't hear about Jobs talking about Y'Z Dock (google it), I mean DOCK (not invented by Apple) nor indexing, which MSFT invented but didn't get out until Vista, yet MSFT can't do anything right can they! Then Apple tries and releases EXCHANGE PUSH, and 3rd PARTY apps, how is that going? Yeah, thought so. Being an Apple user is one thing, being a blind fan boy (or girl) irks me to know end, especially that most MAC users don't know anything about computing, heck, even the genius bar sends out the parts for repair, you think they take a mulitmenter and check to see if a chip is bad on the motherboard, ha, think again.
Meanwhile, Apple used to release iMacs in MATTE, now all GLOSSY which means NO GRAPHICS work, then, OPEN GP had the following speeds on a Macbook (and YOU STILL COULD NOT PLAY GAMES), 71%. 101%, 140%, then 171% with Leopard, why did that matter? Because you could run MOTION on it even though you could not play games, so what does APPLE do? They release X300 and now open GL is a terrible 71% affecting mind you, only 1% if not less of the user base, the real creatives, the people that really made Apple who they are. Instead, the bash MSFT (commercials) and screw the PRO user (also changed the firewire in MB and iMAC to NON TEXAS INSTRUMENTS which = a lot of problems, again, screwing the PRO user.
I was reading a book on marketing a while back and it listed good and bad boss's and what to watch out for and I kid you not, it had things like, if they make fun of the competition, paranoid, and on and on, every point could be said about Jobs, and I like Apple stuff, but c'mon, $500+ for $60 RAM? ONBOARD GPU as they are still afraid of losing the PRO user base?
Tell me about it and the BOH (Apple speak for BACK OF HOUSE) didn't update to Leopard until just a few months ago and having been in there a few times, I managed to get a screen shot of the computers running NORTON Anti Virus. How Ironic is that?
Yes, it's true. If you work in an Apple store, anyone can confirm this.
Along with Daily D, ARW, Business Widget, Family and Friends (3), Personal 1 (15%/25%), cages, iPhone runner,
What I still don't get (and I use a mac more these days) is that, the reason people think WOW, that's so cool done on a mac is that only 9% of the population will have every seen iWork templates, DVD Studio Pro, or FCP/Motion templates. Plus of course, all the times Bill has bailed Apple out!
[...]
Apple is paranoid.
I keep wondering when you'll post an honest reply. I figure that someone who posts that much FUD must be getting paid per fallacy. I guess it's good work if you can stomach it.
I keep wondering when you'll post an honest reply. I figure that someone who posts that much FUD must be getting paid per fallacy. I guess it's good work if you can stomach it.
Ha, even as a long time user you are shocked?
Surely you know some APPLE retail people don't you by now?
Apple did NOT update to LEOPARD on their behind firewall (BOH) computers until just a few months ago and yes, they run NORTON ANTI VIRUS on those machines while also running TIMBUKTU so they can watch any computer at any time whereas the GENIUS and CREATIVE room computers are NOT tied to those BEHIND THE FIREWALL machines.
What is it that you find hard to believe! Are you shocked?
I have all kinds of information I could tell you if I wanted. What don't you believe or are you just in shock that what I typed cannot possibly be true!?
Here:
This is a internal document, yeah, maybe everyone can get them huh?
I used to work for MS back from the Ferrari-owning days to the anti-trust desk-job banishments and I will confirm some previous posts in saying they've played against the law of large numbers for over a decade. Look at Apple's mktshare and the power they wield over the public opinion with just that small percentage.
Anyway, I always did wonder who would name a company Micro-Soft... not very manly, and it appears to be their destiny.
This is a stupid story and it makes everyone who plays into look just and un-informed.
Anyone who knows anything about anything knows that large corporations including Apple have their advertising done outside at an advertising agency and these materials are created and conceived at the agency and pitched to company representatives. The company itself has no say over what tools the agency uses in-house. I't be like tell your plumber what brand of wrenches he would use.
Apple and Adobe are a great creative platform, let's not erase that fact be letting our idiocy show.
Woah, there's a difference between being un-informed and looking at common sense. You are the one missing the point here. Agencies have both Mac and PC users, and at any rate, MS could've used their heads just this once and saved the creative from inside a Windows machine running CS3 to cover the bases, especially when this stuff was obviously made easily available to the public.
Was the content created by Microsoft themselves (and no, just because it was sourced from the Microsoft site doesn't mean that Microsoft actually created it) or by the ad agency that made the commercials to begin with. If it's the latter, then this is really a non story, though fun for all the pro Apple/anti Microsoft folks.
No, it is a non story, really not a big deal on the creative side.
However, it shows the lack of attention to detail on the business side of Microsoft.... just like Vista. Overall, it is eyecandy, but when you get to use it for daily work, there are so many little tiny details which drive you crazy.
And it is not the first time it happened. I remember in the 90's (when John Scully was Apple CEO), the exact same thing happened before. You would think MS should have a "to do" list before releasing ads now.
Scene: Ad agency account executive (Fred) escorting Bill Gates look-alike through the halls of an ad agency. They walk up to a door marked ?TOP SECRET: Microsoft Ad Campaign Team?.
Ad exec Fred: ??And this is where the magic happens. These are the guys who actually put together those great commercials for Microsoft.?
Gates wanders in shakes a few hands and stops dead in his tracks, starring at at a macpro hooked up to an apple display sitting on one of the desks. He looks stunned. He looks around and notices every workstation has a macpro or a 24? iMac.
Gatest"Say, Fred, I notice that all the computers in this room are Macs?."
Fred: "Oh, Bill, I?m sure we have some PC?s in here?."(scans the room, sees none).
Fred leans over to an account guy at a desk, and whispers ?Sam, we do have some PC?s in here, don?t we??
Sam: (looking sheepish) whispering to Fred so that Gates can not hear: ?Actually, we don?t. Used to, but we got rid of them. They just didn't work well enough for us.?
Fred to Gates: ?Bill I understand that all these computers are going to be replaced by PC?s soon and these guys can?t wait to get them, Right guys??
Several ad account guys say, ?uh, yeah, that?s right, Fred?. ?Can?t wait!?
Bill: (looking uncomfortable, recognizing crapola when he hears it) ?Uh, OK. Well, lets move on?
Fred escorts Bill out the door. Camera remains on the door as muffled, uproarious laughter is heard from behind it? Scene fades to black and the apple logo appears.
If Microsoft is your client, you produce the creative on PCs. End of story. This is retarded thinking on the Microsoft side and lazy slacker thinking on the ad agency side. It IS a big deal. The car analogies are crap. It's more like hiring an agency to make commercials for Pepsi ("look, we're better than Coke"), and the agency worldwide has nothing but coke machines in it's break rooms.
It's irony, hypocrisy, hilarity, and epic fail all rolled in to one.
Typical Microsoft.... This reminds of the hotmail.com days of Microsoft trying to replace all the Linux boxes with MS Windows. Didn't work out so well.... Anyway, this was a good laugh.
They didin't used linux on hotmail they used FreeBSD heres the quote from wikipedia:
Hotmail originally ran on a mixture of FreeBSD and Solaris operating systems. Microsoft initially tried to move the FreeBSD portion of the architecture to a Windows NT 4.0 based system, but this failed. Later a project was started to move the system to Windows 2000. In June 2001 Microsoft claimed this had been completed; a few days later they retracted this and admitted that in fact some functions of the Hotmail system were still reliant on FreeBSD.
Bill Gates probably uses a Mac Pro for his daily work. Why? Two reasons: First, it's inconceivable that someone worth about $50B would put up with either X Windows or MS Windows. Second, where else could Bill Gates get all the feature ideas that eventually go into MS products?
While yes.. this is funny... as many have already stated, it is certainly not surprising. Pick the best tools for the job, and in ads, film and print, it's a Mac. For back-end, boring, office work.. it's the cheapest PC with Windoze you can get. And let's not forget the gamers... PC all the way.
Simply... choose the best platform and tools for what you want to do.
Also... this "market share" preoccupation is the absolute stupidest barometer as to the success of either Apple or MS... or Linux. Seriously... does anyone think for a moment that SJ gives a flyin' F about running industrial engineering aps, bank terminals, police-FD alert systems, government agencies, call centers, etc.??? So anyone know really how much of a percentage of the oft stated ~90% MS marketshare that is?
On the consumer side... unless the individual is seriously into gaming, and doesn't need connectivity to inhouse, work-related aps... they are considering... or have bought a Mac or Apple product. Just that simple.
Let it go FanBoyz from both sides, because I don't think we ever want to see ONE company truly control everything. MS would be better off just making a better thin-client... because Google, Unix, Linux and OpenSource is their biggest threat... not Macs. Also let their commercials reflect on this.
PS: I'd make a serious bet that there are people that work at Apple that have PCs... or GAWD forbid... I'd bet there are a ton of PC's (for engineering, office-type work) in Cupertino.
I bet Bill & Steve are both together now playing with their train sets having right old laugh at this. This whole Apple v MS phoney war is so last century. Grow up will ya!!
I think I can see the next Apple commercial. PC sitting down in front of an iMac making his new "I'm a PC" commercial.
You guys know what, the commercials are stupid anyway. I have a MAC and I love it, MACS are great for ease of use and great for what they do well, however they suck for games and you can't buy the latest hardware for them, I have an ATI 4870 in my PC but they are just now offering 3870's for MAC. What I am saying is that the commercials are stupid, because some things the PC platform is way better at,and some things the MAC is way better at. But to imply that the PC is some stupid geek is just silly. I read an article that outline Apples revenue over a year period and the amount of that revenue that was profit, and it was not even close to what Microsoft generated in two months, and they made four times the profit. So I guess Microsoft laughs all the way to the Bank. Besides if the MAC is so great why is its advertising campaign solely based on trying to put the competition down? Why not just build itself up and leave the childishness at home?
so what, this is nothing special. agency used macs, move on!!
what's really embarrassing for M$ when they used cracked version of Sound Forge to create system sounds for Windows 98. The metatag had the cracker's name in it. long live Radium and Deepz0ne.
This is a stupid story and it makes everyone who plays into look just and un-informed.
Anyone who knows anything about anything knows that large corporations including Apple have their advertising done outside at an advertising agency and these materials are created and conceived at the agency and pitched to company representatives. The company itself has no say over what tools the agency uses in-house. I't be like tell your plumber what brand of wrenches he would use.
No, it would be like telling the plumber 'I know you normally usually use A1 brand wrenches, but we manufacture XYZ brand wrenches, and it's important to us that you use our wrenches for this job.'
It's kind of like Alpha bricks building their new brick showroom using their competitors bricks. Or Canon photographing their products using Nikon cameras.
If you're going to try and showcase what can be achieved with a particular product, you have to avoid using competing products. DUH!
Anybody who has any advertising agency experience will tell you that the agency will agree to anything in order to secure a big money client like Microsoft. If Microsoft stipulated that the creatives working on their account come to work everyday dressed in frogmen suits, the agency would agree to it unconditionally. Retraining the creatives to work on PCs is small fry compared to some of the hoops they have to jump through in order to secure business.
No, it doesn't matter how you spin this, this is a colossal cock-up for both Microsoft and the advertising agency involved. I wouldn't be surprised if this very example is used in years to come to disprove that 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'.
Comments
The largest Apple retailer, is actually Apple itself at its Apple Retail Stores.
Guess what Apples uses to enable mobile retail (the apple sales folks walking around with giant PDAs)?
It's a Windows CE device!
Each company uses each other's products!
The largest Apple retailer, is actually Apple itself at its Apple Retail Stores.
Guess what Apples uses to enable mobile retail (the apple sales folks walking around with giant PDAs)?
It's a Windows CE device!
Tell me about it and the BOH (Apple speak for BACK OF HOUSE) didn't update to Leopard until just a few months ago and having been in there a few times, I managed to get a screen shot of the computers running NORTON Anti Virus. How Ironic is that?
Yes, it's true. If you work in an Apple store, anyone can confirm this.
Along with Daily D, ARW, Business Widget, Family and Friends (3), Personal 1 (15%/25%), cages, iPhone runner,
What I still don't get (and I use a mac more these days) is that, the reason people think WOW, that's so cool done on a mac is that only 9% of the population will have every seen iWork templates, DVD Studio Pro, or FCP/Motion templates. Plus of course, all the times Bill has bailed Apple out!
You also don't hear about Jobs talking about Y'Z Dock (google it), I mean DOCK (not invented by Apple) nor indexing, which MSFT invented but didn't get out until Vista, yet MSFT can't do anything right can they! Then Apple tries and releases EXCHANGE PUSH, and 3rd PARTY apps, how is that going? Yeah, thought so. Being an Apple user is one thing, being a blind fan boy (or girl) irks me to know end, especially that most MAC users don't know anything about computing, heck, even the genius bar sends out the parts for repair, you think they take a mulitmenter and check to see if a chip is bad on the motherboard, ha, think again.
Meanwhile, Apple used to release iMacs in MATTE, now all GLOSSY which means NO GRAPHICS work, then, OPEN GP had the following speeds on a Macbook (and YOU STILL COULD NOT PLAY GAMES), 71%. 101%, 140%, then 171% with Leopard, why did that matter? Because you could run MOTION on it even though you could not play games, so what does APPLE do? They release X300 and now open GL is a terrible 71% affecting mind you, only 1% if not less of the user base, the real creatives, the people that really made Apple who they are. Instead, the bash MSFT (commercials) and screw the PRO user (also changed the firewire in MB and iMAC to NON TEXAS INSTRUMENTS which = a lot of problems, again, screwing the PRO user.
I was reading a book on marketing a while back and it listed good and bad boss's and what to watch out for and I kid you not, it had things like, if they make fun of the competition, paranoid, and on and on, every point could be said about Jobs, and I like Apple stuff, but c'mon, $500+ for $60 RAM? ONBOARD GPU as they are still afraid of losing the PRO user base?
Apple is paranoid.
Tell me about it and the BOH (Apple speak for BACK OF HOUSE) didn't update to Leopard until just a few months ago and having been in there a few times, I managed to get a screen shot of the computers running NORTON Anti Virus. How Ironic is that?
Yes, it's true. If you work in an Apple store, anyone can confirm this.
Along with Daily D, ARW, Business Widget, Family and Friends (3), Personal 1 (15%/25%), cages, iPhone runner,
What I still don't get (and I use a mac more these days) is that, the reason people think WOW, that's so cool done on a mac is that only 9% of the population will have every seen iWork templates, DVD Studio Pro, or FCP/Motion templates. Plus of course, all the times Bill has bailed Apple out!
[...]
Apple is paranoid.
I keep wondering when you'll post an honest reply. I figure that someone who posts that much FUD must be getting paid per fallacy. I guess it's good work if you can stomach it.
Jerry Seinfeld appears in three ads, two of which are aired -- $10,000,00.00
The ads are created on MacIntosh computers -- Priceless
I keep wondering when you'll post an honest reply. I figure that someone who posts that much FUD must be getting paid per fallacy. I guess it's good work if you can stomach it.
Ha, even as a long time user you are shocked?
Surely you know some APPLE retail people don't you by now?
Apple did NOT update to LEOPARD on their behind firewall (BOH) computers until just a few months ago and yes, they run NORTON ANTI VIRUS on those machines while also running TIMBUKTU so they can watch any computer at any time whereas the GENIUS and CREATIVE room computers are NOT tied to those BEHIND THE FIREWALL machines.
What is it that you find hard to believe! Are you shocked?
I have all kinds of information I could tell you if I wanted. What don't you believe or are you just in shock that what I typed cannot possibly be true!?
Here:
This is a internal document, yeah, maybe everyone can get them huh?
http://www.mediafire.com/?jgy0dyfzgjm
Anyway, I always did wonder who would name a company Micro-Soft... not very manly, and it appears to be their destiny.
Plus of course, all the times Bill has bailed Apple out!
This is a stupid story and it makes everyone who plays into look just and un-informed.
Anyone who knows anything about anything knows that large corporations including Apple have their advertising done outside at an advertising agency and these materials are created and conceived at the agency and pitched to company representatives. The company itself has no say over what tools the agency uses in-house. I't be like tell your plumber what brand of wrenches he would use.
Apple and Adobe are a great creative platform, let's not erase that fact be letting our idiocy show.
Woah, there's a difference between being un-informed and looking at common sense. You are the one missing the point here. Agencies have both Mac and PC users, and at any rate, MS could've used their heads just this once and saved the creative from inside a Windows machine running CS3 to cover the bases, especially when this stuff was obviously made easily available to the public.
Was the content created by Microsoft themselves (and no, just because it was sourced from the Microsoft site doesn't mean that Microsoft actually created it) or by the ad agency that made the commercials to begin with. If it's the latter, then this is really a non story, though fun for all the pro Apple/anti Microsoft folks.
No, it is a non story, really not a big deal on the creative side.
However, it shows the lack of attention to detail on the business side of Microsoft.... just like Vista. Overall, it is eyecandy, but when you get to use it for daily work, there are so many little tiny details which drive you crazy.
And it is not the first time it happened. I remember in the 90's (when John Scully was Apple CEO), the exact same thing happened before. You would think MS should have a "to do" list before releasing ads now.
Scene: Ad agency account executive (Fred) escorting Bill Gates look-alike through the halls of an ad agency. They walk up to a door marked ?TOP SECRET: Microsoft Ad Campaign Team?.
Ad exec Fred: ??And this is where the magic happens. These are the guys who actually put together those great commercials for Microsoft.?
Gates wanders in shakes a few hands and stops dead in his tracks, starring at at a macpro hooked up to an apple display sitting on one of the desks. He looks stunned. He looks around and notices every workstation has a macpro or a 24? iMac.
Gates
Fred: "Oh, Bill, I?m sure we have some PC?s in here?."(scans the room, sees none).
Fred leans over to an account guy at a desk, and whispers ?Sam, we do have some PC?s in here, don?t we??
Sam: (looking sheepish) whispering to Fred so that Gates can not hear: ?Actually, we don?t. Used to, but we got rid of them. They just didn't work well enough for us.?
Fred to Gates: ?Bill I understand that all these computers are going to be replaced by PC?s soon and these guys can?t wait to get them, Right guys??
Several ad account guys say, ?uh, yeah, that?s right, Fred?. ?Can?t wait!?
Bill: (looking uncomfortable, recognizing crapola when he hears it) ?Uh, OK. Well, lets move on?
Fred escorts Bill out the door. Camera remains on the door as muffled, uproarious laughter is heard from behind it? Scene fades to black and the apple logo appears.
It's irony, hypocrisy, hilarity, and epic fail all rolled in to one.
Typical Microsoft.... This reminds of the hotmail.com days of Microsoft trying to replace all the Linux boxes with MS Windows. Didn't work out so well.... Anyway, this was a good laugh.
They didin't used linux on hotmail they used FreeBSD heres the quote from wikipedia:
Hotmail originally ran on a mixture of FreeBSD and Solaris operating systems. Microsoft initially tried to move the FreeBSD portion of the architecture to a Windows NT 4.0 based system, but this failed. Later a project was started to move the system to Windows 2000. In June 2001 Microsoft claimed this had been completed; a few days later they retracted this and admitted that in fact some functions of the Hotmail system were still reliant on FreeBSD.
Simply... choose the best platform and tools for what you want to do.
Also... this "market share" preoccupation is the absolute stupidest barometer as to the success of either Apple or MS... or Linux. Seriously... does anyone think for a moment that SJ gives a flyin' F about running industrial engineering aps, bank terminals, police-FD alert systems, government agencies, call centers, etc.???
On the consumer side... unless the individual is seriously into gaming, and doesn't need connectivity to inhouse, work-related aps... they are considering... or have bought a Mac or Apple product. Just that simple.
Let it go FanBoyz from both sides, because I don't think we ever want to see ONE company truly control everything. MS would be better off just making a better thin-client... because Google, Unix, Linux and OpenSource is their biggest threat... not Macs. Also let their commercials reflect on this.
PS: I'd make a serious bet that there are people that work at Apple that have PCs... or GAWD forbid... I'd bet there are a ton of PC's (for engineering, office-type work) in Cupertino.
I think I can see the next Apple commercial. PC sitting down in front of an iMac making his new "I'm a PC" commercial.
You guys know what, the commercials are stupid anyway. I have a MAC and I love it, MACS are great for ease of use and great for what they do well, however they suck for games and you can't buy the latest hardware for them, I have an ATI 4870 in my PC but they are just now offering 3870's for MAC. What I am saying is that the commercials are stupid, because some things the PC platform is way better at,and some things the MAC is way better at. But to imply that the PC is some stupid geek is just silly. I read an article that outline Apples revenue over a year period and the amount of that revenue that was profit, and it was not even close to what Microsoft generated in two months, and they made four times the profit. So I guess Microsoft laughs all the way to the Bank. Besides if the MAC is so great why is its advertising campaign solely based on trying to put the competition down? Why not just build itself up and leave the childishness at home?
what's really embarrassing for M$ when they used cracked version of Sound Forge to create system sounds for Windows 98. The metatag had the cracker's name in it.
This is a stupid story and it makes everyone who plays into look just and un-informed.
Anyone who knows anything about anything knows that large corporations including Apple have their advertising done outside at an advertising agency and these materials are created and conceived at the agency and pitched to company representatives. The company itself has no say over what tools the agency uses in-house. I't be like tell your plumber what brand of wrenches he would use.
No, it would be like telling the plumber 'I know you normally usually use A1 brand wrenches, but we manufacture XYZ brand wrenches, and it's important to us that you use our wrenches for this job.'
It's kind of like Alpha bricks building their new brick showroom using their competitors bricks. Or Canon photographing their products using Nikon cameras.
If you're going to try and showcase what can be achieved with a particular product, you have to avoid using competing products. DUH!
Anybody who has any advertising agency experience will tell you that the agency will agree to anything in order to secure a big money client like Microsoft. If Microsoft stipulated that the creatives working on their account come to work everyday dressed in frogmen suits, the agency would agree to it unconditionally. Retraining the creatives to work on PCs is small fry compared to some of the hoops they have to jump through in order to secure business.
No, it doesn't matter how you spin this, this is a colossal cock-up for both Microsoft and the advertising agency involved. I wouldn't be surprised if this very example is used in years to come to disprove that 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'.