actually bing in theindustry i am up on whati speak of are you? or are you one who just reads alot?
I can speak he is more than mistakin he's lian. you want to call me a liar you should know me first. but are you man enough?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Since you love to say to Jobs that "your a liar", rather than to say that he might be mistaken, I guess I'll have to call you a liar as well, since you are mistaken.
This is interesting, and supports, at least for those top 20 sellers (except for one) the point Jobs is making.
Read the article. Perhaps you would care to do the work and extend it down to the top 50 sellers.
some good points here and yes the CPU speeds have increased
but it's not only about speed
it's about devices being allowed to both control themselves and be controlled
when on the same network
i'm using one right now (Focusrite Liquid Mix) to finish producing an album
a device that is specifically designed to work in parallel with the main computer
(a great option for adding to CPU power on non-expandable mobile machines)
Sure, there are some pro device that use FW. I have a few myself. But, you know what? They will do it other ways. They always do. After all the yelling, and stamping of feet is done, people get to work, and straighten it out.
Yes, I know people will need to get new devices. But, sooner or later, they will be getting them anyway. At some point, the current ones won't be supported by their manufacturers. "Sorry, our current product line doesn't support Firewire, would you like to upgrade to our new USB 3 model?".
Sure, there are some pro device that use FW. I have a few myself. But, you know what? They will do it other ways. They always do. After all the yelling, and stamping of feet is done, people get to work, and straighten it out.
Yes, I know people will need to get new devices. But, sooner or later, they will be getting them anyway. At some point, the current ones won't be supported by their manufacturers. "Sorry, our current product line doesn't support Firewire, would you like to upgrade to our new USB 3 model?".
We went through this with SCSI.
We'll always go through it.
yes i agree with the concept and unfortunately/fortunately that does happen
and expensive items need replacing
except that no one has given the future alternative (if it's not firewire or GigE)
because unfortunately USB3 can't do what firewire can - it's limited by being host controlled
(even if the limits are less apparent than USB2 due to increased CPU/bus speeds)
and other than saying "it's on it's way out" as a if it's written in the stars somewhere
no one can give a good reason why it should go
there's FW3200 and FW6400 just around the corner (at speeds faster than USB3 / GigE)
but there isn't a limit to the technology, concept or connectors
only perhaps bad support and high charges from the inventors \
yes i agree with the concept and unfortunately/fortunately that does happen
and expensive items need replacing
except that no one has given the future alternative (if it's not firewire or GigE)
because unfortunately USB3 can't do what firewire can - it's limited by being host controlled
(even if the limits are less apparent than USB2 due to increased CPU/bus speeds)
and other than saying "it's on it's way out" as a if it's written in the stars somewhere
no one can give a good reason why it should go
there's FW3200 and FW6400 just around the corner (at speeds faster than USB3 / GigE)
but there isn't a limit to the technology, concept or connectors
only perhaps bad support and high charges from the inventors \
I don't think we'll have a problem. Cpu's are cheap. A bit more local intelligence will take care of it. After all, if my toaster has a cpu, and my microwave has one, and my HDTV is run on Linux, then there's no problem.
USB 3 isn't really USB as we know it. It's much more like FW. It's called USB because it supports legacy products. It's plenty fast, faster than FW 3200 will be. It's 4,800. It uses optical and copper. Making adapters for Fw 400 and 800 will be fairly easy.
Mel, for all the admiration i have for your posts here, i think sometimes you express your knowledge with less clarity than some of us need. In this instance, the poster you were responding to itemized specific shortcomings of various connectivity methods. Your response (above) might have addressed them satisfactorily to YOU, but it didn't solve it for me, and i suspect not for others either, which is why they keep coming back with more questions, and frustrating you because you have to explain it for the fifth time!
So: Are you saying USB 3 will provide all the functionality people get with f/w and are missing because of its absence? Peer to peer, powered, miniDV camcorder connectivity, etc? If so, that's great, and i wish you'd said so. And if so, that USB 3 will be available when, most likely? When will the fw 400/800 adapters be available--adapters which, if i read you correctly, will be necessary before USB 3 can support legacy fw products, if that's a correct way of expressing it?
If it won't replace all those functions in all those ways, then even with the new hardware in 12-18 months, we'll have lost functionality, won't we?
Maybe here's the pertinent question: When apple dropped SCSI, or any of those other earlier techniques, did they replace them with an alternative immediately? Or 12-18 months later? (I don't know, that's a genuine question)
This means USB hubs are still required. What a pain.
It kind of makes me wonder when we're going to move away from serial technologies like Firewire and USB and move back to parallel technology. I think serial technology by design is difficult to fan out without Hubs or daisychain without issues.
I look for the next decade to bring back parallel technology but at microfraction of what the former parallel technology took in size and with speed commensurate with the times. Then perhaps we'll have a bus that can properly handle multiple devices without puking.
No analysts asked about Firewire. What a useless bunch of know nothings.
This question and answer, however, is puzzling...
From MacCentral:
2:49 PT - Q: Should we continue to see more affordable price points across Mac and iPhone lines going forward?
2:50 PT - Steve Jobs: Deliver an increasing level of value. “We don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk and our DNA will not let us ship that.” But can continue to deliver greater and greater value to the customers they do serve. They’ll stick with that winning strategy by adding more value in the customer bases they serve.
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
No analysts asked about Firewire. What a useless bunch of know nothings.
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
My expectations are very low for the mediatards out here covering Tech and Politics. They just comply the same "Dog n Pony" show and regurgitate the spin or RDF that they see. This is why those that aren't buying into the hype must speak up.
Someone should have asked about Apple's longstanding tradition of appealing to creative individuals and what their recent actions imply for that particular group.
So yeah. I do think Apple moved too fast on this one, but they have the right idea. Before you know it, it will be gone.
Most of Sony's new cameras have USB 2. Once their older ones are discontinued next year, they too will start dropping iLink from their computers. They and Apple are by far, the biggest supporters of this. And Apple is already moving on. Sony won't be far behind.
I admire really your knowledge about the field and I follow your posts with pleasure. I learned a lot during your last posts!
I understand, if Sony changes their specs and delivers their camcorders and notebooks with usb, because they want sell their new products. But Apple built up a good reputation in the movie and music industry and exactly these guys are unsetteled, if apple will be the right partner in the future (Avid, ProTools also running on Windows). They are using cams and interfaces with FW. They won't throw away their equipment because Apple changes their specs. They will look for alternatives. As long Apple supports their Equipment it's ok, but if not they will change and Apple will loose shares in the market. !!!???
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
The new case is enormously more rigid, reducing the case flex that caused all the broken connections and circuit-board traces that's caused the decline in reliability Apple has been experiencing in recent years. Of course, everybody else's laptops have suffered the same problems, but nobody expects them to last more than a year or two, anyway. So yeah, people with that kind of mindset can't see increased reliability and longevity as a "value." That's what sets Apple apart.
By the way, does anybody but me find it ridiculous that Apple, one of the most successful companies in the world, exceeding expectations quarter after quarter and year after year, have to go hat in hand to Wall Street, the guys who've driven the economy off a cliff, pleading: "did we do all right, huh, please say yes, pretty please!"
Shouldn't it be the other way around? Of course, Apple must be doing something wrong, because the taxpayers don't have to cover their losses. So Wall Street wins again.
It kind of makes me wonder when we're going to move away from serial technologies like Firewire and USB and move back to parallel technology. I think serial technology by design is difficult to fan out without Hubs or daisychain without issues.
I look for the next decade to bring back parallel technology but at microfraction of what the former parallel technology took in size and with speed commensurate with the times. Then perhaps we'll have a bus that can properly handle multiple devices without puking.
A move back to parallel wired connections won't happen--serial wired connections have been replacing parallel for some time. That's one of the things that the move from SCSI to Firewire, USB, and SATA was about--serial means thinner cables, simpler electronics, etc. To be a proper substitute for parallel, serial was made faster, or potentially faster, and that speed increase continues in newer designs. One of the main problems with Apple dropping Firewire on the Air and new Macbook, was that they did it before its replacements--USB 3, etc.--were ready.
Another factor in Firewire's demise, is that it wasn't developed at Intel, nor supported by them very much, and Apple wants to go with Intel for as much of its chipsets as possible, mainly for better pricing, but also to rely on fewer companies for development of the chips Apple uses--it streamlines Apple's development process.
Here's an old article that still has some relevant info on where Apple went wrong with Firewire, and some of the reasons why their dumb decisions resulted in Apple phasing out Firewire:
Mel, for all the admiration i have for your posts here, i think sometimes you express your knowledge with less clarity than some of us need. In this instance, the poster you were responding to itemized specific shortcomings of various connectivity methods. Your response (above) might have addressed them satisfactorily to YOU, but it didn't solve it for me, and i suspect not for others either, which is why they keep coming back with more questions, and frustrating you because you have to explain it for the fifth time!
So: Are you saying USB 3 will provide all the functionality people get with f/w and are missing because of its absence? Peer to peer, powered, miniDV camcorder connectivity, etc? If so, that's great, and i wish you'd said so. And if so, that USB 3 will be available when, most likely? When will the fw 400/800 adapters be available--adapters which, if i read you correctly, will be necessary before USB 3 can support legacy fw products, if that's a correct way of expressing it?
If it won't replace all those functions in all those ways, then even with the new hardware in 12-18 months, we'll have lost functionality, won't we?
Maybe here's the pertinent question: When apple dropped SCSI, or any of those other earlier techniques, did they replace them with an alternative immediately? Or 12-18 months later? (I don't know, that's a genuine question)
Sorry, often when I go into detail, I'm told that it's too much.
Twothings that I can say right off is that it won't continuously poll devices as 2 and earlier do. That qill enable a drastically higher percentage of the bandwidth tobe used.
Another is the ability to host "virtual machines". this will allow direct contact and communication with other devices without software intervention, which is much closer to the way FW does it. these things also reduce power consumption a good deal.
It still needs a host, but the virtual machine will allow communication beyween devices as well, which can't be done now.
I'm looking for a good technical link that describes some of the functions in detail, but I'm not finding anything useful so far. Some of the pages contain inaccurate information, and often quote each other.
I'm still looking.
Most seem to think that both Fw3200 and USB 3 will arrive sometime in 2009, though, as usual, a few are more conservative.
It's interesting that some computers already have the new USB 3 ports, though without the extra pins, or onboard controller.
This shows that companies are eager to use this, as they are already doing the tooling for the cases! Here's just one:
Unfortunately, the best tech site appears to be Intel's, and you can't get to the specs without signing an agreement. I thought I would take a try, but after I read it, I decided not to. It would have taken some time before it became valid anyway.
Some of what I know I can relate, but I'd like to back it up with a "good" link, so that it won't be open to argument.
I've been told that due to the changes, FW over USB 3 should be viable, unlike the current adapters poor compatibility with much more than drives and other more one way devices., but without a link, I can't prove it.
Often, the same results can be managed with different technologies. we used to control these things with 232 or above.
It kind of makes me wonder when we're going to move away from serial technologies like Firewire and USB and move back to parallel technology. I think serial technology by design is difficult to fan out without Hubs or daisychain without issues.
I look for the next decade to bring back parallel technology but at microfraction of what the former parallel technology took in size and with speed commensurate with the times. Then perhaps we'll have a bus that can properly handle multiple devices without puking.
We have, in a way.
Express bus is a serial bus with multiple serial connections running in parallel.
No analysts asked about Firewire. What a useless bunch of know nothings.
This question and answer, however, is puzzling...
From MacCentral:
2:49 PT - Q: Should we continue to see more affordable price points across Mac and iPhone lines going forward?
2:50 PT - Steve Jobs: Deliver an increasing level of value. “We don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk and our DNA will not let us ship that.” But can continue to deliver greater and greater value to the customers they do serve. They’ll stick with that winning strategy by adding more value in the customer bases they serve.
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
You would have to ask the consumer. We're too crazy to count.
About the new cases.
I was posting earlier about that in relation to ports.
Using CNC machinery to manufacture these cases gives Apple the ability to quickly amend a design, or come out with a new one in record time.
I don't think anyone else will be able to do that.
Look at Asus putting USB 3 connectors on some new models. Only the USB 2 part works now, but they likely don't want to change the case over the next year of longer, so they did the opening now, and put a half dummy connector in.
I admire really your knowledge about the field and I follow your posts with pleasure. I learned a lot during your last posts!
I understand, if Sony changes their specs and delivers their camcorders and notebooks with usb, because they want sell their new products. But Apple built up a good reputation in the movie and music industry and exactly these guys are unsetteled, if apple will be the right partner in the future (Avid, ProTools also running on Windows). They are using cams and interfaces with FW. They won't throw away their equipment because Apple changes their specs. They will look for alternatives. As long Apple supports their Equipment it's ok, but if not they will change and Apple will loose shares in the market. !!!???
The last to go will be the Pro machines. I guess it's even possible that Apple MIGHT put FW1600 on their machines, as this is expected to arrive first.
Then, even if Apple does eliminate it in the MBP, the Express slot, as I linked to above will have Fw 400 and 800 as usual, and also USB3 and ESATA available.
But, I suspect that the manufacturers of pro equipment aren't crying about this, they are already working to see how they can work around it. If they want to continue to sell their equipment, they will figure out how to do it.
Don't forget Ethernet 10Gb is around the corner for our machines as well. It's already out (too expensive now), and there's now a Power Over Ethernet spec as well.
We will have a plethora of interfaces to choose from.
Comments
I can speak he is more than mistakin he's lian. you want to call me a liar you should know me first. but are you man enough?
Since you love to say to Jobs that "your a liar", rather than to say that he might be mistaken, I guess I'll have to call you a liar as well, since you are mistaken.
This is interesting, and supports, at least for those top 20 sellers (except for one) the point Jobs is making.
Read the article. Perhaps you would care to do the work and extend it down to the top 50 sellers.
http://theappleblog.com/2008/10/20/c...ve-jobs-right/
some good points here and yes the CPU speeds have increased
but it's not only about speed
it's about devices being allowed to both control themselves and be controlled
when on the same network
i'm using one right now (Focusrite Liquid Mix) to finish producing an album
a device that is specifically designed to work in parallel with the main computer
(a great option for adding to CPU power on non-expandable mobile machines)
Sure, there are some pro device that use FW. I have a few myself. But, you know what? They will do it other ways. They always do. After all the yelling, and stamping of feet is done, people get to work, and straighten it out.
Yes, I know people will need to get new devices. But, sooner or later, they will be getting them anyway. At some point, the current ones won't be supported by their manufacturers. "Sorry, our current product line doesn't support Firewire, would you like to upgrade to our new USB 3 model?".
We went through this with SCSI.
We'll always go through it.
Sure, there are some pro device that use FW. I have a few myself. But, you know what? They will do it other ways. They always do. After all the yelling, and stamping of feet is done, people get to work, and straighten it out.
Yes, I know people will need to get new devices. But, sooner or later, they will be getting them anyway. At some point, the current ones won't be supported by their manufacturers. "Sorry, our current product line doesn't support Firewire, would you like to upgrade to our new USB 3 model?".
We went through this with SCSI.
We'll always go through it.
yes i agree with the concept and unfortunately/fortunately that does happen
and expensive items need replacing
except that no one has given the future alternative (if it's not firewire or GigE)
because unfortunately USB3 can't do what firewire can - it's limited by being host controlled
(even if the limits are less apparent than USB2 due to increased CPU/bus speeds)
and other than saying "it's on it's way out" as a if it's written in the stars somewhere
no one can give a good reason why it should go
there's FW3200 and FW6400 just around the corner (at speeds faster than USB3 / GigE)
but there isn't a limit to the technology, concept or connectors
only perhaps bad support and high charges from the inventors
actually bing in theindustry i am up on whati speak of are you? or are you one who just reads alot?
I can speak he is more than mistakin he's lian. you want to call me a liar you should know me first. but are you man enough?
What?
yes i agree with the concept and unfortunately/fortunately that does happen
and expensive items need replacing
except that no one has given the future alternative (if it's not firewire or GigE)
because unfortunately USB3 can't do what firewire can - it's limited by being host controlled
(even if the limits are less apparent than USB2 due to increased CPU/bus speeds)
and other than saying "it's on it's way out" as a if it's written in the stars somewhere
no one can give a good reason why it should go
there's FW3200 and FW6400 just around the corner (at speeds faster than USB3 / GigE)
but there isn't a limit to the technology, concept or connectors
only perhaps bad support and high charges from the inventors
I don't think we'll have a problem. Cpu's are cheap. A bit more local intelligence will take care of it. After all, if my toaster has a cpu, and my microwave has one, and my HDTV is run on Linux, then there's no problem.
I wouldn't worry.
Nah, I'll explain it for the fifth time.
USB 3 isn't really USB as we know it. It's much more like FW. It's called USB because it supports legacy products. It's plenty fast, faster than FW 3200 will be. It's 4,800. It uses optical and copper. Making adapters for Fw 400 and 800 will be fairly easy.
Mel, for all the admiration i have for your posts here, i think sometimes you express your knowledge with less clarity than some of us need. In this instance, the poster you were responding to itemized specific shortcomings of various connectivity methods. Your response (above) might have addressed them satisfactorily to YOU, but it didn't solve it for me, and i suspect not for others either, which is why they keep coming back with more questions, and frustrating you because you have to explain it for the fifth time!
So: Are you saying USB 3 will provide all the functionality people get with f/w and are missing because of its absence? Peer to peer, powered, miniDV camcorder connectivity, etc? If so, that's great, and i wish you'd said so. And if so, that USB 3 will be available when, most likely? When will the fw 400/800 adapters be available--adapters which, if i read you correctly, will be necessary before USB 3 can support legacy fw products, if that's a correct way of expressing it?
If it won't replace all those functions in all those ways, then even with the new hardware in 12-18 months, we'll have lost functionality, won't we?
Maybe here's the pertinent question: When apple dropped SCSI, or any of those other earlier techniques, did they replace them with an alternative immediately? Or 12-18 months later? (I don't know, that's a genuine question)
It makes no difference whatsoever. The only time that matters is if you connect two FW devices together without a host computer.
does that matter when you are using your Mac? No. Besides, USB 3 offloads more from the host. It also uses a newer controller.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/hard...xhci-goes-gold
This means USB hubs are still required. What a pain.
This means USB hubs are still required. What a pain.
It kind of makes me wonder when we're going to move away from serial technologies like Firewire and USB and move back to parallel technology. I think serial technology by design is difficult to fan out without Hubs or daisychain without issues.
I look for the next decade to bring back parallel technology but at microfraction of what the former parallel technology took in size and with speed commensurate with the times. Then perhaps we'll have a bus that can properly handle multiple devices without puking.
This question and answer, however, is puzzling...
From MacCentral:
2:49 PT - Q: Should we continue to see more affordable price points across Mac and iPhone lines going forward?
2:50 PT - Steve Jobs: Deliver an increasing level of value. “We don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk and our DNA will not let us ship that.” But can continue to deliver greater and greater value to the customers they do serve. They’ll stick with that winning strategy by adding more value in the customer bases they serve.
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
No analysts asked about Firewire. What a useless bunch of know nothings.
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
My expectations are very low for the mediatards out here covering Tech and Politics. They just comply the same "Dog n Pony" show and regurgitate the spin or RDF that they see. This is why those that aren't buying into the hype must speak up.
Someone should have asked about Apple's longstanding tradition of appealing to creative individuals and what their recent actions imply for that particular group.
So yeah. I do think Apple moved too fast on this one, but they have the right idea. Before you know it, it will be gone.
Most of Sony's new cameras have USB 2. Once their older ones are discontinued next year, they too will start dropping iLink from their computers. They and Apple are by far, the biggest supporters of this. And Apple is already moving on. Sony won't be far behind.
I admire really your knowledge about the field and I follow your posts with pleasure. I learned a lot during your last posts!
I understand, if Sony changes their specs and delivers their camcorders and notebooks with usb, because they want sell their new products. But Apple built up a good reputation in the movie and music industry and exactly these guys are unsetteled, if apple will be the right partner in the future (Avid, ProTools also running on Windows). They are using cams and interfaces with FW. They won't throw away their equipment because Apple changes their specs. They will look for alternatives. As long Apple supports their Equipment it's ok, but if not they will change and Apple will loose shares in the market. !!!???
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
The new case is enormously more rigid, reducing the case flex that caused all the broken connections and circuit-board traces that's caused the decline in reliability Apple has been experiencing in recent years. Of course, everybody else's laptops have suffered the same problems, but nobody expects them to last more than a year or two, anyway. So yeah, people with that kind of mindset can't see increased reliability and longevity as a "value." That's what sets Apple apart.
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
• Greener construction
• Better, more durable construction
• Most customers aren't paying for an interface they will never use (or even heard of)
• Larger, more usable trackpad w/associated drivers
• Faster graphics
• Future-forward video out capable of pushing DL-DVI bandwidth, and then some.
• Backlit LED display that is 33% brighter, instant-on, and will last longer
• Backlit keyboard
If the lack of FW bothers you, there is a $999 and $1999 Mac notebook that have them
Shouldn't it be the other way around? Of course, Apple must be doing something wrong, because the taxpayers don't have to cover their losses. So Wall Street wins again.
It kind of makes me wonder when we're going to move away from serial technologies like Firewire and USB and move back to parallel technology. I think serial technology by design is difficult to fan out without Hubs or daisychain without issues.
I look for the next decade to bring back parallel technology but at microfraction of what the former parallel technology took in size and with speed commensurate with the times. Then perhaps we'll have a bus that can properly handle multiple devices without puking.
A move back to parallel wired connections won't happen--serial wired connections have been replacing parallel for some time. That's one of the things that the move from SCSI to Firewire, USB, and SATA was about--serial means thinner cables, simpler electronics, etc. To be a proper substitute for parallel, serial was made faster, or potentially faster, and that speed increase continues in newer designs. One of the main problems with Apple dropping Firewire on the Air and new Macbook, was that they did it before its replacements--USB 3, etc.--were ready.
Another factor in Firewire's demise, is that it wasn't developed at Intel, nor supported by them very much, and Apple wants to go with Intel for as much of its chipsets as possible, mainly for better pricing, but also to rely on fewer companies for development of the chips Apple uses--it streamlines Apple's development process.
Here's an old article that still has some relevant info on where Apple went wrong with Firewire, and some of the reasons why their dumb decisions resulted in Apple phasing out Firewire:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1104
Mel, for all the admiration i have for your posts here, i think sometimes you express your knowledge with less clarity than some of us need. In this instance, the poster you were responding to itemized specific shortcomings of various connectivity methods. Your response (above) might have addressed them satisfactorily to YOU, but it didn't solve it for me, and i suspect not for others either, which is why they keep coming back with more questions, and frustrating you because you have to explain it for the fifth time!
So: Are you saying USB 3 will provide all the functionality people get with f/w and are missing because of its absence? Peer to peer, powered, miniDV camcorder connectivity, etc? If so, that's great, and i wish you'd said so. And if so, that USB 3 will be available when, most likely? When will the fw 400/800 adapters be available--adapters which, if i read you correctly, will be necessary before USB 3 can support legacy fw products, if that's a correct way of expressing it?
If it won't replace all those functions in all those ways, then even with the new hardware in 12-18 months, we'll have lost functionality, won't we?
Maybe here's the pertinent question: When apple dropped SCSI, or any of those other earlier techniques, did they replace them with an alternative immediately? Or 12-18 months later? (I don't know, that's a genuine question)
Sorry, often when I go into detail, I'm told that it's too much.
Twothings that I can say right off is that it won't continuously poll devices as 2 and earlier do. That qill enable a drastically higher percentage of the bandwidth tobe used.
Another is the ability to host "virtual machines". this will allow direct contact and communication with other devices without software intervention, which is much closer to the way FW does it. these things also reduce power consumption a good deal.
It still needs a host, but the virtual machine will allow communication beyween devices as well, which can't be done now.
I'm looking for a good technical link that describes some of the functions in detail, but I'm not finding anything useful so far. Some of the pages contain inaccurate information, and often quote each other.
I'm still looking.
Most seem to think that both Fw3200 and USB 3 will arrive sometime in 2009, though, as usual, a few are more conservative.
It's interesting that some computers already have the new USB 3 ports, though without the extra pins, or onboard controller.
This shows that companies are eager to use this, as they are already doing the tooling for the cases! Here's just one:
http://www.everythingusb.com/asus-m50-14144.html
This is interesting too:
http://www.everythingusb.com/expresscard-14403.html
I can't find anything about Express FW3200 yet.
Unfortunately, the best tech site appears to be Intel's, and you can't get to the specs without signing an agreement. I thought I would take a try, but after I read it, I decided not to. It would have taken some time before it became valid anyway.
Some of what I know I can relate, but I'd like to back it up with a "good" link, so that it won't be open to argument.
I've been told that due to the changes, FW over USB 3 should be viable, unlike the current adapters poor compatibility with much more than drives and other more one way devices., but without a link, I can't prove it.
Often, the same results can be managed with different technologies. we used to control these things with 232 or above.
This means USB hubs are still required. What a pain.
Don't forget that we also use FW hubs for pretty much the same reason.
In theory, you shouldn't need them for either standard, but that's theory.
It kind of makes me wonder when we're going to move away from serial technologies like Firewire and USB and move back to parallel technology. I think serial technology by design is difficult to fan out without Hubs or daisychain without issues.
I look for the next decade to bring back parallel technology but at microfraction of what the former parallel technology took in size and with speed commensurate with the times. Then perhaps we'll have a bus that can properly handle multiple devices without puking.
We have, in a way.
Express bus is a serial bus with multiple serial connections running in parallel.
No analysts asked about Firewire. What a useless bunch of know nothings.
This question and answer, however, is puzzling...
From MacCentral:
2:49 PT - Q: Should we continue to see more affordable price points across Mac and iPhone lines going forward?
2:50 PT - Steve Jobs: Deliver an increasing level of value. “We don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk and our DNA will not let us ship that.” But can continue to deliver greater and greater value to the customers they do serve. They’ll stick with that winning strategy by adding more value in the customer bases they serve.
Can someone explain to me how wrapping a computer in Aluminium and removing the Firewire port adds up to more value to the consumer?
You would have to ask the consumer. We're too crazy to count.
About the new cases.
I was posting earlier about that in relation to ports.
Using CNC machinery to manufacture these cases gives Apple the ability to quickly amend a design, or come out with a new one in record time.
I don't think anyone else will be able to do that.
Look at Asus putting USB 3 connectors on some new models. Only the USB 2 part works now, but they likely don't want to change the case over the next year of longer, so they did the opening now, and put a half dummy connector in.
I admire really your knowledge about the field and I follow your posts with pleasure. I learned a lot during your last posts!
I understand, if Sony changes their specs and delivers their camcorders and notebooks with usb, because they want sell their new products. But Apple built up a good reputation in the movie and music industry and exactly these guys are unsetteled, if apple will be the right partner in the future (Avid, ProTools also running on Windows). They are using cams and interfaces with FW. They won't throw away their equipment because Apple changes their specs. They will look for alternatives. As long Apple supports their Equipment it's ok, but if not they will change and Apple will loose shares in the market. !!!???
The last to go will be the Pro machines. I guess it's even possible that Apple MIGHT put FW1600 on their machines, as this is expected to arrive first.
Then, even if Apple does eliminate it in the MBP, the Express slot, as I linked to above will have Fw 400 and 800 as usual, and also USB3 and ESATA available.
But, I suspect that the manufacturers of pro equipment aren't crying about this, they are already working to see how they can work around it. If they want to continue to sell their equipment, they will figure out how to do it.
Don't forget Ethernet 10Gb is around the corner for our machines as well. It's already out (too expensive now), and there's now a Power Over Ethernet spec as well.
We will have a plethora of interfaces to choose from.