I wish Apple would have killed off the SuperDrive DVD drive in favor additional space inside for another SATA drive, and instead offered an optional external DVD (soon to be Blu-Ray) drive. It could have had the same footprint as the mini. It would have looked cool and been very handy.
I am quite happy with the updated mini. 5th USB port is great, Firewire 800 is great, dual monitor support is great, bump to 4gb memory is great, and finally support for .11n
Apple's marketing is less than optimal. They still refuse to target the HTPC market. Slightly bigger case, allow 3.5" hard drives, more storage for HTPC and lower price point for switchers.
Other than that, its an acceptable although not extraordinary minor update.
Inclusion of FW800 seems confusing, mostly with the conspicuous removal of firewire from the aluminum Macbook. That appears to have been a mistake.
I would have considered an updated Mini a year ago, but now my Macbook is getting old enough that I'd consider buying a new laptop and using my 3yr old Macbook as a HTPC. The new Mini doesn't offer anything special. The new aluminum Macbook with the higher price and lack of FW makes it harder to take the plunge. I like the 13" size but really like FW. In my extensive tests I get twice the speed with FW than USB.
The used market on eBay is interesting. Old Minis don't sell for much less than a new one. But an old Macbook with similar specs can be had for $550-600. That seems worth it to get a laptop for the price of a Mini. Thats probably the route I'll take.
2.5" drives are Green and of course more space efficient.
What HTPC market? You mean that super niche?
So one device not having FW versus the rest including it makes the rule?
Actually you're going to find that if audio support can be enabled and supported through a
mini DisplayPort to HDMI cable the mini will comprise a pretty solid HTPC with the right software. Dual Monitor support is great to. Yeah it's not earth shatterting but I cannot think of a device that's better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomskey
WoW!
I cannot believe everyone is so impressed with the update? It's a complete RIP OFF! No remote is included anymore and the prices here in the UK are waaaaay more expensive than the previous versions - they keep going UP - (£499 or £649).
I was going to replace, but I don't think i'll bother!
:-(
Sorry mate...exchange rate sucks for us too when it comes to UK products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimMok
Can some explain the "one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog"
I am quite happy with the updated mini. 5th USB port is great, Firewire 800 is great, dual monitor support is great, bump to 4gb memory is great, and finally support for .11n
Picking up two of these for around the house.
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
Well, that was easy. The 320Gb Black is a hair faster then the 500Gb Blue.
I would get the Blue for a notebook/netbook (power consumption and vibration) and flip a coin on the Mini.
I'd probably lean toward the Black for the mini and get an array of 500Gb blues at some point. Any single drive is waiting to fail at the wrong time and backing up even 320Gb to a Time Capsule should be amusing.
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
Good point. Thought people were referencing it due to the space, not the rpms.
How does OS X know the maximum of the GPU's chipset?
For example. u buy the baseline 599 model with 128 allocation. when u add another gig of ram, how does it know to expand the GPU to 256-max?
Best case scenario GPU memory will automatically allocated based on % of installed RAM, worst cast scenario Apple set GPU memory in EFI. Either way I am sure the user will be able to modify GPU memory allocation. Someone will figure how to change it if Apple set it in EFI.
I'm quite pleased with it. With the price hikes, the Mini looks to be Apple's best value product right now. The 9400M with OpenCL compatibility looks powerful enough for most things. Just throw in 4GB Ram and a 7200 rpm drive and it's a nice little desktop.
The CPUs are a bit slow but the machine is tiny, easy to move around and easy to resell.
This is what the Mini should have been years ago except with the X1600 in there instead of GMA.
The £100+ price hike on it certainly isn't appreciated - the US seems to benefit from Apple vs the rest of the world irrespective of the economic situation. I guess the 'i' and 'me' symbolism they are so keen on shows who they care about most.
It's not entirely their fault but as I say, when the dollar is down, they still keep the home crowd safe.
I'm wondering if i just went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 599 model, upgraded ram (from 3rd party vendor), and perhaps cpu down the road (if i really wanted to. Once i go to 2 GB of ram, how do i allocate the vid card to use 256?
I don't think you can upgrade the CPU. Certainly not at a reasonable price, anyway.
I'd wait, seriously. Find out what the story is on performance for what you want. Somebody is going to try it and write something up soon enough. Within a couple of weeks I would guess.
I think the allocation is automatic, but I'll check later today.
The £100+ price hike on it certainly isn't appreciated - the US seems to benefit from Apple vs the rest of the world irrespective of the economic situation. I guess the 'i' and 'me' symbolism they are so keen on shows who they care about most.
It's not entirely their fault but as I say, when the dollar is down, they still keep the home crowd safe.
It's not as bad as it sounds. In the US, sales taxes apply and are not included in the list price. In the UK you are paying VAT, included in the price. An Apples to Apples comparison (pre-tax vs. pre VAT) of price shows that with the devalued pound the difference is less than half what it appears to be.
I think the allocation is automatic, but I'll check later today.
I found this on the footnotes:
# Memory available to Mac OS X may vary depending on graphics needs. Minimum graphics memory usage is 128MB for 1GB configuration and 256MB for 2GB configuration.
-----
what's still confusing is, it still separates them out, but i'm sure thats due to the case the 2nd options comes w/ a minimum of 2gb
2.5" drives are Green and of course more space efficient.
What HTPC market? You mean that super niche?
So one device not having FW versus the rest including it makes the rule?
Actually you're going to find that if audio support can be enabled and supported through a
mini DisplayPort to HDMI cable the mini will comprise a pretty solid HTPC with the right software. Dual Monitor support is great to. Yeah it's not earth shatterting but I cannot think of a device that's better.
Sorry mate...exchange rate sucks for us too when it comes to UK products.
This is the first mini that I really want to buy. I like the FW800, Nvidia Grapics, the Superdrive in the low end model.. I'm starting to think it's time to unload some of my older Mac computers.
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
I had a Seagate Momentus 7200.1 100gb in a T61.
The Scorpio Black 320 was Noticeably faster in the same laptop on upgrade. -Same system, too; cloned right on from 1 to the other.
--
Otherwise: Yay for usable graphics chip in a Mini!!! It is now on the shopping list.
Front Row has been in maintenence mode for a while. Apple has no intentions of offering the Mac mini as some sort of quasi HTPC. If consumers feel that $100 is expensive for a DVD player how is Apple going to convince them that $600 is a more suitable product choice. Hell that's more than people are spending on their HDTV. The cleanest setup is a media extender aka Apple TV with a bit of local storage and the ability to stream music video and photos.
That happens a lot when you take a product outside it's intended market. The mini is a computer it's not a home theatre device.
No matter the state of Front Row, Apple includes it with the mini and offers the remote as an option for the Mini stating, "The Apple Remote combines with Front Row — a menu-driven, full-screen interface — to make accessing your digital content from any seat in the room as simple as navigating an iPod." Sounds to me like Apple intends the mini to be considered for home theater use even if you don't. You compared the mini to a $100 DVD player, I didn't. As a low-end or entry computer, the mini is underspecced. At the top end, it's useable but over priced. A full grand and some change for the top end BTO with those specs is too much. Adding the HDMI and a little better pricing gives longevity to the mini as a multi-purpose unit, THAT is my point. As an aside, Apple shouldn't cheap out on the remote, Front Row makes no sense without it. Including Front Row and charging for the remote makes the customer feel like they are getting nickel and dimed, they're already over charging for memory and the HD.
Follow along here, try not to think so small. The mini is either under-specced or overpriced as a low-end computer. No matter how you look at it, it's underspecced as an HTPC, but it has a form factor perfect to be used as one. The mini, among other things, is intended to bring people into the Mac world, which comes at a premium cost of entry to most. Configuring the unit to do both gives it greater longevity which makes it's cost more reasonable. Bring the specs more in line with the cost and you can use the mini as an entry or low-end Mac for a year or so and you can afford to move up to newer higher specced machine sooner because your mini still has a second life and you won't have over-invested in overpriced technology that is outdated next year. When you move up to a faster more powerful computer, you can then take your mini and move it to your HT because it could (key word, "could") be perfect for it. At that time in the future, in addition to your newer faster workhorse computer in your home office, you'll also have an upscaling DVD, itunes and access to iTunes store, full surfing capability, full email, YouTube, facebook, and the like, the full functioning OS that lets you actually do real work, all accessible from the comfort of the sofa in your living room for your use, another member of your household, guest, whatever—a very cool option.
I do graphic design and have an original PPC 2 gig G5 for when I need to work at home. It's aging and I need to replace it. The mini is almost functional as a stop gap until I'm ready, but it's too much for too little in it's current pricing scheme for me to use it that way. AppleTV is interesting, but since I have a PS3, I don't want to spend $300 for "interesting." However, if I felt like I was getting both a full functioning computer that I got my money's worth for a while that later becomes Apple TV without being nickel and dimed, I might be more inclined to bite because it would have 2 lives for me. As it is, I'll be buying a tower or an iMac within a year or so. As configured and priced now, Apple is probably going to lose the sale of the mini to me (which I was very interested in buying until I saw the new specs) when they could have sold me the mini AND a new tower or iMac. I doubt very seriously I'm the only person who was interested in the mini in that way, so I'm guessing Apple will have lost the sale of a new mini to other folks in my boat. That happens a lot when you make a product that falls short of how your market intends to use it.
Comments
As for which adaptor, I'd like to see how monoprice's announced mDP-to-HDMI adaptor performs (is it available yet?).
did some research. March 15th is the date.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136314
I am quite happy with the updated mini. 5th USB port is great, Firewire 800 is great, dual monitor support is great, bump to 4gb memory is great, and finally support for .11n
Picking up two of these for around the house.
Apple's marketing is less than optimal. They still refuse to target the HTPC market. Slightly bigger case, allow 3.5" hard drives, more storage for HTPC and lower price point for switchers.
Other than that, its an acceptable although not extraordinary minor update.
Inclusion of FW800 seems confusing, mostly with the conspicuous removal of firewire from the aluminum Macbook. That appears to have been a mistake.
I would have considered an updated Mini a year ago, but now my Macbook is getting old enough that I'd consider buying a new laptop and using my 3yr old Macbook as a HTPC. The new Mini doesn't offer anything special. The new aluminum Macbook with the higher price and lack of FW makes it harder to take the plunge. I like the 13" size but really like FW. In my extensive tests I get twice the speed with FW than USB.
The used market on eBay is interesting. Old Minis don't sell for much less than a new one. But an old Macbook with similar specs can be had for $550-600. That seems worth it to get a laptop for the price of a Mini. Thats probably the route I'll take.
2.5" drives are Green and of course more space efficient.
What HTPC market? You mean that super niche?
So one device not having FW versus the rest including it makes the rule?
Actually you're going to find that if audio support can be enabled and supported through a
mini DisplayPort to HDMI cable the mini will comprise a pretty solid HTPC with the right software. Dual Monitor support is great to. Yeah it's not earth shatterting but I cannot think of a device that's better.
WoW!
I cannot believe everyone is so impressed with the update? It's a complete RIP OFF! No remote is included anymore and the prices here in the UK are waaaaay more expensive than the previous versions - they keep going UP - (£499 or £649).
I was going to replace, but I don't think i'll bother!
:-(
Sorry mate...exchange rate sucks for us too when it comes to UK products.
Can some explain the "one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog"
Is this the same as a TOSLINK connection?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
It's a mini-plug that can support analog and digital connections. It's pretty handy actually
Notice people keep posting about going to 320gb for $79 or so. Should be able to move to 500gb for $109.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136314
I am quite happy with the updated mini. 5th USB port is great, Firewire 800 is great, dual monitor support is great, bump to 4gb memory is great, and finally support for .11n
Picking up two of these for around the house.
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
You can buy 4GB (2x2GB 1066 DDR3 SODIMM) @ Crucial for $65:
http://www.crucial.com/store/partspe...KIT25664BC1067
And, after a very quick search, a 320 MB 7200 RPM hard drive for $79
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136280
So for $750 and a bit of labor you can beat the Apple prices substantially. Again, assuming the putty knife trick works here.
Replying to my own message
Just got confirmation from Crucial that the new mini uses PC3 8500, so the above link is appropriate.
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts...d%5B2251%5D=on
Well, that was easy. The 320Gb Black is a hair faster then the 500Gb Blue.
I would get the Blue for a notebook/netbook (power consumption and vibration) and flip a coin on the Mini.
I'd probably lean toward the Black for the mini and get an array of 500Gb blues at some point. Any single drive is waiting to fail at the wrong time and backing up even 320Gb to a Time Capsule should be amusing.
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
Good point. Thought people were referencing it due to the space, not the rpms.
How does OS X know the maximum of the GPU's chipset?
For example. u buy the baseline 599 model with 128 allocation. when u add another gig of ram, how does it know to expand the GPU to 256-max?
Best case scenario GPU memory will automatically allocated based on % of installed RAM, worst cast scenario Apple set GPU memory in EFI. Either way I am sure the user will be able to modify GPU memory allocation. Someone will figure how to change it if Apple set it in EFI.
The CPUs are a bit slow but the machine is tiny, easy to move around and easy to resell.
This is what the Mini should have been years ago except with the X1600 in there instead of GMA.
The £100+ price hike on it certainly isn't appreciated - the US seems to benefit from Apple vs the rest of the world irrespective of the economic situation. I guess the 'i' and 'me' symbolism they are so keen on shows who they care about most.
It's not entirely their fault but as I say, when the dollar is down, they still keep the home crowd safe.
I'm wondering if i just went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 599 model, upgraded ram (from 3rd party vendor), and perhaps cpu down the road (if i really wanted to. Once i go to 2 GB of ram, how do i allocate the vid card to use 256?
I don't think you can upgrade the CPU. Certainly not at a reasonable price, anyway.
I'd wait, seriously. Find out what the story is on performance for what you want. Somebody is going to try it and write something up soon enough. Within a couple of weeks I would guess.
I think the allocation is automatic, but I'll check later today.
The £100+ price hike on it certainly isn't appreciated - the US seems to benefit from Apple vs the rest of the world irrespective of the economic situation. I guess the 'i' and 'me' symbolism they are so keen on shows who they care about most.
It's not entirely their fault but as I say, when the dollar is down, they still keep the home crowd safe.
It's not as bad as it sounds. In the US, sales taxes apply and are not included in the list price. In the UK you are paying VAT, included in the price. An Apples to Apples comparison (pre-tax vs. pre VAT) of price shows that with the devalued pound the difference is less than half what it appears to be.
I think the allocation is automatic, but I'll check later today.
I found this on the footnotes:
# Memory available to Mac OS X may vary depending on graphics needs. Minimum graphics memory usage is 128MB for 1GB configuration and 256MB for 2GB configuration.
-----
what's still confusing is, it still separates them out, but i'm sure thats due to the case the 2nd options comes w/ a minimum of 2gb
2.5" drives are Green and of course more space efficient.
What HTPC market? You mean that super niche?
So one device not having FW versus the rest including it makes the rule?
Actually you're going to find that if audio support can be enabled and supported through a
mini DisplayPort to HDMI cable the mini will comprise a pretty solid HTPC with the right software. Dual Monitor support is great to. Yeah it's not earth shatterting but I cannot think of a device that's better.
Sorry mate...exchange rate sucks for us too when it comes to UK products.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
It's a mini-plug that can support analog and digital connections. It's pretty handy actually
Thanks Mate!
Does anyone know which adapter to buy if I want to drive 2 DVI screens?
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB...mco=MjkyNjI0MQ
AND
http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9...mco=MjE0NTg3Nw
Not too long ago, many thought that the Mac mini was dead. Obviously the reports of it's death had been greatly exaggerated.
Long live the Mac mini!
That's the 5400RPM drive. A good 320Gb 7200 drive should outperform the scorpio blue even with the density difference. I don't recall if there are specific benchmarks between the scorpio black 320 and the scorpio blue 500.
I had a Seagate Momentus 7200.1 100gb in a T61.
The Scorpio Black 320 was Noticeably faster in the same laptop on upgrade. -Same system, too; cloned right on from 1 to the other.
--
Otherwise: Yay for usable graphics chip in a Mini!!! It is now on the shopping list.
Front Row has been in maintenence mode for a while. Apple has no intentions of offering the Mac mini as some sort of quasi HTPC. If consumers feel that $100 is expensive for a DVD player how is Apple going to convince them that $600 is a more suitable product choice. Hell that's more than people are spending on their HDTV. The cleanest setup is a media extender aka Apple TV with a bit of local storage and the ability to stream music video and photos.
That happens a lot when you take a product outside it's intended market. The mini is a computer it's not a home theatre device.
No matter the state of Front Row, Apple includes it with the mini and offers the remote as an option for the Mini stating, "The Apple Remote combines with Front Row — a menu-driven, full-screen interface — to make accessing your digital content from any seat in the room as simple as navigating an iPod." Sounds to me like Apple intends the mini to be considered for home theater use even if you don't. You compared the mini to a $100 DVD player, I didn't. As a low-end or entry computer, the mini is underspecced. At the top end, it's useable but over priced. A full grand and some change for the top end BTO with those specs is too much. Adding the HDMI and a little better pricing gives longevity to the mini as a multi-purpose unit, THAT is my point. As an aside, Apple shouldn't cheap out on the remote, Front Row makes no sense without it. Including Front Row and charging for the remote makes the customer feel like they are getting nickel and dimed, they're already over charging for memory and the HD.
Follow along here, try not to think so small. The mini is either under-specced or overpriced as a low-end computer. No matter how you look at it, it's underspecced as an HTPC, but it has a form factor perfect to be used as one. The mini, among other things, is intended to bring people into the Mac world, which comes at a premium cost of entry to most. Configuring the unit to do both gives it greater longevity which makes it's cost more reasonable. Bring the specs more in line with the cost and you can use the mini as an entry or low-end Mac for a year or so and you can afford to move up to newer higher specced machine sooner because your mini still has a second life and you won't have over-invested in overpriced technology that is outdated next year. When you move up to a faster more powerful computer, you can then take your mini and move it to your HT because it could (key word, "could") be perfect for it. At that time in the future, in addition to your newer faster workhorse computer in your home office, you'll also have an upscaling DVD, itunes and access to iTunes store, full surfing capability, full email, YouTube, facebook, and the like, the full functioning OS that lets you actually do real work, all accessible from the comfort of the sofa in your living room for your use, another member of your household, guest, whatever—a very cool option.
I do graphic design and have an original PPC 2 gig G5 for when I need to work at home. It's aging and I need to replace it. The mini is almost functional as a stop gap until I'm ready, but it's too much for too little in it's current pricing scheme for me to use it that way. AppleTV is interesting, but since I have a PS3, I don't want to spend $300 for "interesting." However, if I felt like I was getting both a full functioning computer that I got my money's worth for a while that later becomes Apple TV without being nickel and dimed, I might be more inclined to bite because it would have 2 lives for me. As it is, I'll be buying a tower or an iMac within a year or so. As configured and priced now, Apple is probably going to lose the sale of the mini to me (which I was very interested in buying until I saw the new specs) when they could have sold me the mini AND a new tower or iMac. I doubt very seriously I'm the only person who was interested in the mini in that way, so I'm guessing Apple will have lost the sale of a new mini to other folks in my boat. That happens a lot when you make a product that falls short of how your market intends to use it.