Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad



  • Reply 101 of 343
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    I have used both Mac and Windows machines for years - Macs only for my personal machines going back to the Mac SE with 9" grayscale screen on up through 17" MacBook Pro that I got used from Apple a couple years ago - IBM ThinkPads for my day job - running windows XP which so far is the best OS from Microsoft that I have used. I have used Parallels to run windows on my Mac when the Thinkpad was in for service (a number of times) and even though the Mac is about a year older than the PC - Parallels runs windows very nearly as fast as the ThinkPad.

    My latest ThinkPad had to have the hard drive erased and re-imaged the day after I got it after I tried to load the device driver for the bluetooth PC card that came with my GPS unit.

    For those who mention viruses - the last time I saw one on the Mac was about 15 or 20 years ago. On the PC side I have spent many hours cleaning systems which are so infected with so much malware that in one case after three days of running multiple software products multiple times - there was still one infectious item that spread the the rest of my network before I found the right tool for that particular problem.

    All in all I am actually glad that there are so many PCs out there and that they have so many problems - this week alone I have five different PCs that need to be worked on - which makes me some extra money - which helps pay for things like upgrading the hard drive in my Mac or getting a new iPhone.

    To the post about other people making you feel inferior when you visit the Apple store - I think you are looking at that the wrong way. I know people who start off feeling so inferior to begin with that when they are faced with anyone who is more confident or more knowledgeable than themselves they feel inferior - not because the other person tried to make them feel inferior - or even tried to portray themselves as superior - maybe I am not explaining that well - but sometimes your perception is more about you than the other person. If 100 people go into the Apple store and have exactly the same interaction with the staff there - and them had them each fill out a survey - do you think they would all answer every question on the survey exactly the same way?
  • Reply 102 of 343
    pxtpxt Posts: 683member
    I think people in the Apple community spend too much time thinking about Microsoft. Let's let Apple worry about the marketing strategy to beat MS. Why spend time comparing our products with the worst in the market?

    I recently switched and am immensely happy with all my Apple products. So what's next? Instead of being satisfied that security is better than the most dangerously incompetent OS in existence, I wonder if my Mac could be as secure as an Oracle enterprise system. Could OSX start up as fast as Linux? Let's throw the Mac v PC chart in the trash where it belongs and get serious.
  • Reply 103 of 343
    I'd like to see Apple do a report on how much time Windows users waste reinstalling and restarting then add that to the therapists bill for psychological damage caused by not being able to connect to anything.

    As a designer, time really is money and I don't mind paying extra for a system that doesn't crash because I asked it where the calculator is.
  • Reply 104 of 343
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Originally Posted by wilco View Post

    Coming from the guy who thinks FCP is a 3D app...

    It isn't. It was only a relevant example in terms of the horsepower required to run it.
  • Reply 105 of 343
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,572member
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

    Or honestly I think they could come down in price.

    Yes, yes, yes... Because Apple as a company and Macs sales are so doing freaken horrible. They're doomed unless they come down in price. How many times have we heard this? How many more are we going to have to suffer through?

    They do not need to come down in price. People just need to resist buying that $700 piece of crap and save more. I'm sorry, but anyone who values their money and investments will look at more than just specs on a sheet. There's customer satisfaction, repair statistics, and customer support. Apple is one of the few companies that realizes that you're a customer for the life of the product, not just until you hand over the cash and walk out the door. The Apple Stores reflect that and that's nothing Microsoft will ever be able to offer Windows users, because they don't deal with end-users, they do business with OEMs.
  • Reply 106 of 343
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    lost all their senses.

    Looking for laptop as a "gaming computer".

    No, you can't find a single kid today being as silly, as MS's ad maker is.

    Let youngsters write scenarios of your ads, MS, they know better. Buy them Minis in exchange....
  • Reply 107 of 343
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,572member
    Originally Posted by PXT View Post

    I think people in the Apple community spend too much time thinking about Microsoft.

    Actually the reverse is more true. Windows shills bash Apple EVERY chance they get. What you see in the Apple community is a response to the bashings.

    The only time I even think about Microsoft is when someone asks me for help on their Windows computer and how many loops you have to through to get something done.
  • Reply 108 of 343
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Originally Posted by PXT View Post

    Let's let Apple worry about the marketing strategy to beat MS. .

    Apple already has.

    Apple is the brand name synonymous with "Premium." Apple will never command the kind of market share MS does, nor should it. As long as Apple keeps a lock on the premium end of the market and grabs new users entering it, all is well. Apple sells on margin, not volume.

    I'm not sure what would constitute a "comfortable" market share position for Apple. Frankly, 10% seems just fine. Others say 15%, some even say 20%. Not that any of that matters. Apple remains the more desirable, more exclusive option. Low market share, high margins, and high profits, is pretty typical in this case.

    The real blow to MS is Apple grabbing the premium end of the market. When your potential "upper crust" customers are choosing Macs, your own product ends up looking like the cheap econo option. When those with steady jobs (read: careers) and plenty of disposable income DON'T choose your product, you're not only losing a significant advertising vehicle, but you're also cultivating an image that people wouldn't want to associate with except under extenuating circumstances.
  • Reply 109 of 343
    wilcowilco Posts: 985member
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

    It isn't. It was only a relevant example in terms of the horsepower required to run it.

    The horsepower needed to run FCP?

    Like a MacBook?

  • Reply 110 of 343
    walneywalney Posts: 70member
  • Reply 111 of 343
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

    See, now, this is the kind of thing that really frustrates me. I've heard it I don't know how many times from PC users. And yet, I don't know a single Mac user who thinks like this. Not one.

    I guess you don't know any other Mac users then...

    Since you have 160 posts, you've clearly been to these forums before. But you clearly haven't bothered to read anyone else's comments. The elitist attitude oozes out of at least 50% of the posts. Heck, scroll up from where your post is and you can see it in others' comments.
  • Reply 112 of 343
    wheelhotwheelhot Posts: 465member
    Hmm...downgrading requires you to pay more..I wonder which company does that?
  • Reply 113 of 343
    Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

    I wouldn't call it an Apple "tax", it's more like an Apple "investment" that you could potentially get a positive return on if you play your cards right.

    This is true. I bought a PowerMac once (with an education discount), and two years later I sold it on eBay for only $100 less than I paid for it. I'd call that a reasonable price to pay for two years of computer use.
  • Reply 114 of 343
    djintxdjintx Posts: 454member
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

    And to a certain extent, I'm glad they buy Windows. Let Microsoft enjoy their patronage, and all that comes with it.

    Yes, EXACTLY! Those of you pointing out the flaws in this study, PLEASE STOP NOW!!! You are attracting attention, and you might cause more PC users to jump ship. We have enough converts as it is.

    Set aside your frustration and sense of justice, and think about this logically for just a second. There is a huge population of people out there who either already prefer windows, or are on the fnece but deep down you know that they are much better suited as a windows user. Let's let them stay on the windows team. We don't need them. Apple is in the sweet spot right now.

    For anyone who buys into this non-sensical study, let them choose windows, because it weeds out the undesirables. I don't want Apple to increase their marketshare much more than it is now, and I ESPECIALLY don't want them to dominate and put windows out of business. We need windows in order to keep Apple motivated to push in the opposite direction and continue to innovate and make great products. It keeps us sharp.

    Apple is best when it is a small population of people who actually get it. Is there an Apple Tax? I don't believe so. I think the small difference in price goes to pay for a superior overall experience. A better OS, much better hardware, and most importantly, a brilliant merging of how hardware and software should work together. Could apple put out a $599 laptop to compete and bring down their mediaun product price? Of course they could, but it would be crap. I personally enjoy a company that refuses to purposely design market and sell crap products to people.

    I don't mind paying a small premium for a much better OS, much better hardware, and a much better overall computer experience. It is completely worth it. However, I don't want everyone to be a mac user. Only those who really get it. I don't want Apple trying to enlist every Joe Sue and Mary who see and want a Mac just because of the pretty glowing apple logo that they saw on an episode of One Tree Hill. We don't want those people in our camp.

    For you windows users...Don't Switch! PLEASE!
  • Reply 115 of 343
    Why is MS spending all this money comparing hardware? Shouldn't they compare Vista/Windows 7 with OSX? They don't make computers. Apple makes both. Is HP, Dell, Asus, Lenovo, et al helping fund these ads? I'd like to see the OS comparison, including price and the ease of buying and using and features of one OS vs another that has 7 iterations. Maybe only 6 if you eliminate pure business and focus on pure home users. That would compare MS to Apple. Not these ads. Why isn't HP et al running their own ads? What's the cost of MS's OS vs. Apple's OS? What's the cost of OS upgrades?

    As an earlier post said, it you want to go hardware and home built, why exclude Linux. Damn OS is free!! Why do the buyers in the ad's always seem to pick HP? Isn't Dell pissed, or Asus, Lenovo etc?
  • Reply 116 of 343
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Originally Posted by jamesjrjr View Post

    Frankly, Apples products do cost more, but for a reason. Comparing these systems is like saying a Porsche costs more than a Ford. The Ford may have more towing capacity or a certain feature that they think customers are looking for but they preform completely differently. I'd like to see how these numbers work out when compared using systems configured as closely as possible!

    You just hit on something only it shouldn't be Porsche used in comparison with Ford... it should be BMW. Simple point is BMW at the base level is more expensive than a Ford with comparible performance. The only really big difference is the BMW is going to come with more features out of the box and arguably better quality. What it comes down to literally is.. are you shopping on a budget or shopping for a quality product. These are really two different things. If I am looking for a car that gets me around just as quick as the BMW but I can only afford to spend 25 grand then I can't even look at BMW regardless of what features are offered in the base model.

    It's the same with PC vs Mac. You guys can argue Apples value all day long but bottom line is I have more options with PC and I can hop on and build a decent machine for 300~400 dollars that can do everything I want. It might not have firewire or a special video port or anything else Apple thinks I need to have but I also save money on features I don't need. You guys are right Microsofts ads are skewed and overly exaggerated... if they truly wanted to reach the market they just need to talk about flexibility.

    If Apple opened up their licensing to allow any hardware to use their OS Microsoft wouldn't have anything over them but until they do that Microsoft does offer a lot to those who don't have fat wallets or simply want choices.
  • Reply 117 of 343
    wheelhotwheelhot Posts: 465member
    good point, time to join you guys, dun promote more switchers without REAL reason!
  • Reply 118 of 343
    djintxdjintx Posts: 454member
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post

    If Apple opened up their licensing to allow any hardware to use their OS Microsoft wouldn't have anything over them but until they do that Microsoft does offer a lot to those who don't have fat wallets or simply want choices.

    I think this would actually have the opposite affect. The upside of Apple allowing their OS on any machine, would certainly be to allow people to buy very inexpensive hardware, and enjoy Mac OS X.

    However, the downsides are huge. Number one is the philosophy that Macs work so well because the hardware and software were designed from day one to all work together. Going through the normal R&D process and thorough testing, Apple decides on specific hardware component combinations to avoid problems. Certain issues inevitably arise during R&D and testing, and then they make changes. Apple wouldn't be able to control this part of the process for other companies' hardware, and the exeprience would suffer for OS X users. If packard bell or Acer or Dell can slap OS X on any of their crappy laptops or desktops, suddenly you start seeing major driver incompatibility issues, cheap components used that don't work properly, and a major "bag of hurt" all the way around. That would ba a nightmare for Apple customer satisfaction, and for Apple Tech Support, not to mention their overall image a future success.

    If Apple keeps it all in house, designing it all to work well together, they can control to a large degree how their products are perceived, and how successful they are, and their users win in this situation. That is one of the reasons I use Macs. I don't need Apple to lure a huge army of PC converts to justify my purchase.
  • Reply 119 of 343
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

    The only time I even think about Microsoft is when someone asks me for help on their Windows computer and how many loops you have to through to get something done.

    I'll second that! Oh, those Windows users, they're the tough ones. They duke it out with their flakey computers and peripherals, all in the name [only] of saving a few bucks.
  • Reply 120 of 343
    Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post

    Hmm...downgrading requires you to pay more..I wonder which company does that?

    LOL...Apple doesn't even offer downgrading if for some reason someone prefered Tiger over Leopard.. oddly enough I thought Tiger was more stable but thats another story.

    And to those of you who claim $2800 is not a high price even for Apple when Sony (which is a premium brand) can offer you more at roughly the same size display for about $1600 then you have reality issues. I mean with Apple you go from somewhat reasonable to ultra expensive so fast you don't have to time to blink. The 2.0 MacBook is somewhat reasonable but god forbid you want more than 1280x800 pixels. I mean i'm not a pro, but I can see the use even in browsing, emailing, and IM for more the 1280x800 pixels.

    Another odd thing I noted... go look at Sony for example. Its the opposite of Macs in the fact the generally the smaller you get the more expensive the laptop is. Where as with the Macbooks its the reverse (If you don't consider the Air).

    My BF for example won't get a 13", he prefers larger screen and is laptop is mostly used as a desktop but sometimes taken out on the road. He is also a movie buff. Not that he creates them, but loves to watch them especially oldies and Woody Allen films. He would love a 17", he loves style as well but there is no way he could justify $2000+ when all he would ever do is email and watch movies. I tried to give him my 13" MacBook instead of selling it and he refused... saying the screen was too small. Me on the other hand, I love 13" but wouldn't mind more pixels. The Sony Z series offers 1600x900 in 13.1" notebook... who knows I'm sure in the future pixels will get more dense on the MacBooks as well.

    And for those of you who claim that OS X is so much better... Leopard has had a ton of issues and still does in regard to networking. I was even told to reinstall Leopard from Apple Support for a networking issue. I thought such advice was only something Dell and HP gave... What I will gave Apple is they have good support that speaks English and they are likely to go above and beyond. As I said in an other post... HP, Dell, Toshiba love to give you the run around.

    I do see value in iLife, but at the high end its really hard to justify what is becoming $1000 of difference especially if all you want is a 15" screen. I don't see why Apple couldn't do a consumer 15" notebok. Its really one size fits all in Apple's consumer notebook strategy and where I do 100% agree with Microsoft in their "Life with out walls" campaign. People do want a little more flexibility. And all any fanboi does is throw a huge hissy fit when some suggests Apple could be more flexible. Its like soviet russia. I must follow 100% and I obviously disagree with communism if I suggest one point to improve it.

    I do think these ads are stupid and sorta lame. But on the other hand is big win with these threads full of spin, lies, and huge hissy fits. It just further proves that Apple is like BMW and most don't want to be associated with people that look down. Alot of people might dream about a BMW, but even rich people buy a Ford or a Hyundai to not be seen as snotty...

    Some of you say it doesn't matter... but it matters enough for you to appearently get upset about it and ridicule them.

    I mean you would think Microsoft raped your children the deep hatred you have for them. Its like your goal is to topple their marketshare but then you argue in a circle that it isn't what Apple wants and the Apple is premium. Which one is it? Is Apple Premium and Microsoft Windows always the somewhat inferior but for the masses or is Apple gonna change its strategy and actually overtake Windows?

    I just know I hate fanbois and I know Steve Jobs hates them too...
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