The Xbox 360 is cheaper but is missing quite a few features found on the PS3 like Blu-Ray and WiFi. The PS3 is the more expensive console but you get all of these features built-in.
The PS3 is better value if you're going to use all of the features it includes. If you've got a wired network and no interest in movies then the Xbox 360 provides a comparable experience for a lot less money. It's horse for courses.
If you're going to use all of the software that comes with a Mac then it's a no-brainer. If you're not, the decision is less clear cut.
For the record, I've not once contracted a virus on Windows. I don't even run virus protection on my desktop PC. Perhaps I'm lucky? Perhaps its because I don't download pirated software?
I know you wrote it, I just don't agree with it. And I also don't really care what Ars Technica has to say either.
No point in arguing further, I added you to my ignore list, along with Teckdud and Italianskid.
The reason of not arguing further is because it isn't easy to explain UI effectiveness when I can't post pics easily along with my article other than pasting pics through a link in this forum.
Your childish response of disagreeing with one's opinion while not bothering with what the opinion has to say is simply an act of ignorance. If you're not going to (or even bothered to) comprehend the most obvious example I gave, that's fine with me.
OK, after hunting around for a while I was able to reproduce the somewhat special case of an iTunes Store file with both video and audio components, which gives you the unfortunate darker active tab.
However, on the general subject of "How the Leopard UI is going to hell in a handbasket", this seems pretty slight.
I'm just giving you the most obvious example. There are also lots of other bad UI elements other than color contrast in Leopard, and these craps did not exist on older Mac OS X releases before. I don't want to spend that much time flipping through different links to post a pic on this forum just to get one single point across and then being taken as something slight. I prefer uploading my own pics to explain UI, which I can't do on this forum. Read John Siracusa's review on Leopard and you will probably have a better picture. (Not that I totally agree with Siracusa.)
It's no surprise that one will argue that the example I gave is slight. Basically anyone can also use that rationale to justify Vista's horrible UI experience as well. UI has always been taken as a slight thing to bother. That is why people in Redmond never gets the UI experience right, despite twenty years of being a copy cat.
One of the important reasons why Mac has a better UI experience is because Apple always had paid lots of detail attention on every single visual element, especially for the sake for visual effectiveness rather than visual coolness. If you go back to the development of the original Mac, you will be surprised how much effort they put on visual details and experiments (some of them are just drawing different artistic patterns over and over again), not just for the sake of aesthetic, but more importantly for the sake of visual effectiveness.
Send some guy shopping for a car and go right by the 09 Accord, BMW and Camry leaving the lot with an 08 Focus, deliriously happy.
One major flaw in the car analogy: An 08 Focus generally 'just works' and can be driven safely on the roads 'out of the box'. I struggle to think of a car brand that matches the level of dangerous incompetence that I associate with Windows.
You say-"Let's face it, macs are for people in design, people who like cutting edge high end toys, and idiots."
Fine job of insulting 99% of the posters on this board. Surely there is a reason for this pointless banter. Why else would someone just throw in the word "idiots" when referring to a certain group of users? Typical unsubstantiated babble!!
OK NM... First of all I would hope that being in "design" or being "a fan of the cutting edge" is not an insult. Idiot is... Better phrased... Have you ever been to a mac store?
I go often... Full of college kids and old ladies... Seriously... It is a great system for someone who doesn't need the overhead of learning the in's and out's of computing. It is tremendously streamlined. You can't escape the fact that there probably are a lot of "switchers" that formerly on their pcs and were responding to the Nigerian scam. PC's are dangerous to most people... And most people are not that technically oriented. That is the group. Technically challenged. 90% of the huge home market... Yes it is a great product...
I have 3 macs in the house. I am not insulting mac users. I hot modded oc'd an $80 emac for my daughter when she was 3 and she loved it. She could use it right away. I have probably "sold" at least 10 to people who had limited experience and didn't need it for an enterprise environment.
Any disdain I have related to a mac is not directed at the users... I have a problem with Apple's strategy. I have dealt with their corporate office. There was a fiasco with Leopard when it was released. It was reported here. In the first version, if a move operation was aborted then it would delete the original. That happened to me. It was a huge ordeal with Apple.
And they failed from a technical point (how can something of this magnitude not get caught in beta).
And they failed me from a product support angle. I had to talk to their VP of retail before I got a result. Pretty bad. That is the arrogance I am talking about and that is what you see in this article. Jobs is a visionary but he is surrounded by a snobbish arrogant group of automatons.
here here... Clever response... Well noted... Yes, despite my comment, I have lived with my parents at a point in my adult life... And I would have loved a nice finished basement. They were the Costanza years.
here here... Clever response... Well noted... Yes, despite my comment, I have lived with my parents at a point in my adult life... And I would have loved a nice finished basement. They were the Costanza years.
Love the Seinfeld reference!
Also reminds me of the time George and Lloyd Braun were selling computers. They weren't Macs, that's for sure.
I'm just giving you the most obvious example. There are also lots of other bad UI elements other than color contrast in Leopard. I don't want to spend that much time flipping through different links to post a pic on this forum just to get one single point across and then being taken as something slight. I prefer uploading my own pics to explain UI, which I can't do on this forum. Read John Siracusa's review on Leopard and you will probably have a better picture. (Not that I totally agree with Siracusa.)
It's no surprise that one will argue that the example I gave is slight. Basically anyone can also use that rationale to justify Vista's horrible UI experience as well. UI has always been taken as a slight thing to bother. That is why people in Redmond never gets the UI experience right, despite twenty years of being a copy cat.
One of the important reasons why Mac has a better UI experience is because Apple always had paid lots of detail attention on every single visual element, especially for the sake for visual effectiveness rather than visual coolness. If you go back to the development of the original Mac, you will be surprised how much effort they put on visual details and experiments (some of them are just drawing different artistic patterns over and over again), not just for the sake of aesthetic, but more importantly for the sake of visual effectiveness.
I have to agree with you... You make some great points on here. It seems that you can be a mac fan but if post any criticism which in your case is constructive some Jackals will pounce.
The point you make is what I am trying to make. Take the blinders off Apple (and users) and work to improve what is already good.
They are dumbing down things unfortunately. And I feel that it alienates some of the base. Even the iLife suite could be improved by having some sort of advanced mode that could allow for better filtering, organization. Sometimes quite limited but yet amazingly iPhoto has near government grade face recognition.
If you want an example of bad UI try to gift a large quantity of items to someone in iTunes. That is just something I did yesterday and just couldn't understand why they didn't have a basket. Amazing that they can overlook the "internet infancy era" BASKET.
The thing is that there is some arrogance. I have contacted them directly on improvements and have always gotten an engineer who is in complete denial that there is a problem. Free advice... I felt it worthy. Much like the "Basket" referenced. For however big the gift program is I will be that the bad UI is costing them at least 20% of sales in that segment.
Also reminds me of the time George and Lloyd Braun were selling computers. They weren't Macs, that's for sure.
Serenity now!!!
Lloyd, my favorite episode... Ding! Quote that constantly.... So many Lloyds I have come across in business... Delusional lunatics with fictitious accomplishments that many times are rewarded by upper management (Frank Costanza)...
Don't mind Wilco, CsharpBsharp, he just posts one liners that never add anything to the conversation and, like his comment above, he is usually completely wrong with his knowledge.
You are probably a really cute, but annoying kid. Don't worry you will grow out of it. What does Apple hiring IBM's top chip maker have to do with anything? First, IBM doesn't build PCs anymore because the machines were so expensive only a few people would buy them. It sold that business to Lenovo. Lenovo uses Chinese slave labor to bring the cost down, but you will notice that computer wasn't featured in Microsoft's ad because it is still priced on the high end of things. Second, perhaps you didn't know it, but Apple actually makes other products like iPods and iPhones. Apple hired the guy to help develop those things (at least according to Apple and Papermaster). Third, IBM didn't use it's own chips in it's PCs. It used Intel chips. IBM sells its chips Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to use in their game machines. It also uses its chips in its high end servers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shavex
The original article was written to attack specifically HP, while if Hesseldahl was someone worth noting he would have done his research and realized that Apple just hired IBM's top chip expert. So obviously IBM builds GREAT machines for cheap they just arent pretty looking. Which paying hundreds of dollars for looks is totally up to personal preference and not everyone wants a pretty laptop that will die in 3 years.
I use to support the underdog (Apple) for being different and better, but since they are climbing the ladder they are acting like they are the Big Dog and everyone else sucks. I mean how annoying is a bunch of cocky script kiddies?
THe comparision if not that simple. Both the XBox and PS3 use chips designed by IBM. However, the performance is not equal. Although both are similar, PS3 is a better chip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
This is similar to the Xbox 360 vs. PS3 debate.
The Xbox 360 is cheaper but is missing quite a few features found on the PS3 like Blu-Ray and WiFi. The PS3 is the more expensive console but you get all of these features built-in.
The PS3 is better value if you're going to use all of the features it includes. If you've got a wired network and no interest in movies then the Xbox 360 provides a comparable experience for a lot less money. It's horse for courses.
If you're going to use all of the software that comes with a Mac then it's a no-brainer. If you're not, the decision is less clear cut.
For the record, I've not once contracted a virus on Windows. I don't even run virus protection on my desktop PC. Perhaps I'm lucky? Perhaps its because I don't download pirated software?
I have to agree with you... You make some great points on here. It seems that you can be a mac fan but if post any criticism which in your case is constructive some Jackals will pounce.
The point you make is what I am trying to make. Take the blinders off Apple (and users) and work to improve what is already good.
They are dumbing down things unfortunately. And I feel that it alienates some of the base. Even the iLife suite could be improved by having some sort of advanced mode that could allow for better filtering, organization. Sometimes quite limited but yet amazingly iPhoto has near government grade face recognition.
If you want an example of bad UI try to gift a large quantity of items to someone in iTunes. That is just something I did yesterday and just couldn't understand why they didn't have a basket. Amazing that they can overlook the "internet infancy era" BASKET.
The thing is that there is some arrogance. I have contacted them directly on improvements and have always gotten an engineer who is in complete denial that there is a problem. Free advice... I felt it worthy. Much like the "Basket" referenced. For however big the gift program is I will be that the bad UI is costing them at least 20% of sales in that segment.
I agree with you. It's unfortunate.
I always find it funny when many ignorant Apple fans touts Mac as a high standard product while on the other hand argues that high standard is unnecessary when Apple lowers the bar.
You can only use 3 of the 4 GBs of ram in the HP laptop featured in the commercial, did you realize that? Why would HP include ram that windows cant even use? Why does microsoft want you to buy it?
I think once you answer the above question honestly, you'll realize how snarky you ended up.
IMO, of course. Heh.
p.s. The Windows security and PC repair industries are a multi-billion dollar a year segments. 'buy a cheap pc, steal software from dad' argument = not so good.
Uh.. a lot of machines ship with 64bit Windows now.... so using the 4Gb isn't really a problem.
Comments
How do you know? What if there is a virus in your PC sending out spam or collecting your keystrokes? Not running A/V means you'd never know it, right?
Unless they've worked out how to hijack the lights on my router I'll take my chances.
Unless they've worked out how to hijack the lights on my router I'll take my chances.
You're so naive. Sending a keystroke log may produce enough activity to make your router blink for a few seconds, once a day.
The Xbox 360 is cheaper but is missing quite a few features found on the PS3 like Blu-Ray and WiFi. The PS3 is the more expensive console but you get all of these features built-in.
The PS3 is better value if you're going to use all of the features it includes. If you've got a wired network and no interest in movies then the Xbox 360 provides a comparable experience for a lot less money. It's horse for courses.
If you're going to use all of the software that comes with a Mac then it's a no-brainer. If you're not, the decision is less clear cut.
For the record, I've not once contracted a virus on Windows. I don't even run virus protection on my desktop PC. Perhaps I'm lucky? Perhaps its because I don't download pirated software?
I know you wrote it, I just don't agree with it. And I also don't really care what Ars Technica has to say either.
No point in arguing further, I added you to my ignore list, along with Teckdud and Italianskid.
The reason of not arguing further is because it isn't easy to explain UI effectiveness when I can't post pics easily along with my article other than pasting pics through a link in this forum.
Your childish response of disagreeing with one's opinion while not bothering with what the opinion has to say is simply an act of ignorance. If you're not going to (or even bothered to) comprehend the most obvious example I gave, that's fine with me.
OK, after hunting around for a while I was able to reproduce the somewhat special case of an iTunes Store file with both video and audio components, which gives you the unfortunate darker active tab.
However, on the general subject of "How the Leopard UI is going to hell in a handbasket", this seems pretty slight.
I'm just giving you the most obvious example. There are also lots of other bad UI elements other than color contrast in Leopard, and these craps did not exist on older Mac OS X releases before. I don't want to spend that much time flipping through different links to post a pic on this forum just to get one single point across and then being taken as something slight. I prefer uploading my own pics to explain UI, which I can't do on this forum. Read John Siracusa's review on Leopard and you will probably have a better picture. (Not that I totally agree with Siracusa.)
It's no surprise that one will argue that the example I gave is slight. Basically anyone can also use that rationale to justify Vista's horrible UI experience as well. UI has always been taken as a slight thing to bother. That is why people in Redmond never gets the UI experience right, despite twenty years of being a copy cat.
One of the important reasons why Mac has a better UI experience is because Apple always had paid lots of detail attention on every single visual element, especially for the sake for visual effectiveness rather than visual coolness. If you go back to the development of the original Mac, you will be surprised how much effort they put on visual details and experiments (some of them are just drawing different artistic patterns over and over again), not just for the sake of aesthetic, but more importantly for the sake of visual effectiveness.
Send some guy shopping for a car and go right by the 09 Accord, BMW and Camry leaving the lot with an 08 Focus, deliriously happy.
One major flaw in the car analogy: An 08 Focus generally 'just works' and can be driven safely on the roads 'out of the box'. I struggle to think of a car brand that matches the level of dangerous incompetence that I associate with Windows.
You say-"Let's face it, macs are for people in design, people who like cutting edge high end toys, and idiots."
Fine job of insulting 99% of the posters on this board. Surely there is a reason for this pointless banter. Why else would someone just throw in the word "idiots" when referring to a certain group of users? Typical unsubstantiated babble!!
OK NM... First of all I would hope that being in "design" or being "a fan of the cutting edge" is not an insult. Idiot is... Better phrased... Have you ever been to a mac store?
I go often... Full of college kids and old ladies... Seriously... It is a great system for someone who doesn't need the overhead of learning the in's and out's of computing. It is tremendously streamlined. You can't escape the fact that there probably are a lot of "switchers" that formerly on their pcs and were responding to the Nigerian scam. PC's are dangerous to most people... And most people are not that technically oriented. That is the group. Technically challenged. 90% of the huge home market... Yes it is a great product...
I have 3 macs in the house. I am not insulting mac users. I hot modded oc'd an $80 emac for my daughter when she was 3 and she loved it. She could use it right away. I have probably "sold" at least 10 to people who had limited experience and didn't need it for an enterprise environment.
Any disdain I have related to a mac is not directed at the users... I have a problem with Apple's strategy. I have dealt with their corporate office. There was a fiasco with Leopard when it was released. It was reported here. In the first version, if a move operation was aborted then it would delete the original. That happened to me. It was a huge ordeal with Apple.
And they failed from a technical point (how can something of this magnitude not get caught in beta).
And they failed me from a product support angle. I had to talk to their VP of retail before I got a result. Pretty bad. That is the arrogance I am talking about and that is what you see in this article. Jobs is a visionary but he is surrounded by a snobbish arrogant group of automatons.
Unfortunately my mother does not have a basement.
here here... Clever response... Well noted... Yes, despite my comment, I have lived with my parents at a point in my adult life... And I would have loved a nice finished basement. They were the Costanza years.
here here... Clever response... Well noted... Yes, despite my comment, I have lived with my parents at a point in my adult life... And I would have loved a nice finished basement. They were the Costanza years.
Love the Seinfeld reference!
Also reminds me of the time George and Lloyd Braun were selling computers. They weren't Macs, that's for sure.
Serenity now!!!
That's why they invented duck tape I guess
"Duck" tape?
Really?
Another brain surgeon joins the ranks of AI.
I'll try to paraphrase a quote made by a famous super-salesman. It may been Zig Ziglar but I don't know.
He's so famous that you can't remember his name?
I'm just giving you the most obvious example. There are also lots of other bad UI elements other than color contrast in Leopard. I don't want to spend that much time flipping through different links to post a pic on this forum just to get one single point across and then being taken as something slight. I prefer uploading my own pics to explain UI, which I can't do on this forum. Read John Siracusa's review on Leopard and you will probably have a better picture. (Not that I totally agree with Siracusa.)
It's no surprise that one will argue that the example I gave is slight. Basically anyone can also use that rationale to justify Vista's horrible UI experience as well. UI has always been taken as a slight thing to bother. That is why people in Redmond never gets the UI experience right, despite twenty years of being a copy cat.
One of the important reasons why Mac has a better UI experience is because Apple always had paid lots of detail attention on every single visual element, especially for the sake for visual effectiveness rather than visual coolness. If you go back to the development of the original Mac, you will be surprised how much effort they put on visual details and experiments (some of them are just drawing different artistic patterns over and over again), not just for the sake of aesthetic, but more importantly for the sake of visual effectiveness.
I have to agree with you... You make some great points on here. It seems that you can be a mac fan but if post any criticism which in your case is constructive some Jackals will pounce.
The point you make is what I am trying to make. Take the blinders off Apple (and users) and work to improve what is already good.
They are dumbing down things unfortunately. And I feel that it alienates some of the base. Even the iLife suite could be improved by having some sort of advanced mode that could allow for better filtering, organization. Sometimes quite limited but yet amazingly iPhoto has near government grade face recognition.
If you want an example of bad UI try to gift a large quantity of items to someone in iTunes. That is just something I did yesterday and just couldn't understand why they didn't have a basket. Amazing that they can overlook the "internet infancy era" BASKET.
The thing is that there is some arrogance. I have contacted them directly on improvements and have always gotten an engineer who is in complete denial that there is a problem. Free advice... I felt it worthy. Much like the "Basket" referenced. For however big the gift program is I will be that the bad UI is costing them at least 20% of sales in that segment.
Love the Seinfeld reference!
Also reminds me of the time George and Lloyd Braun were selling computers. They weren't Macs, that's for sure.
Serenity now!!!
Lloyd, my favorite episode... Ding! Quote that constantly.... So many Lloyds I have come across in business... Delusional lunatics with fictitious accomplishments that many times are rewarded by upper management (Frank Costanza)...
"Duck" tape?
Really?
Another brain surgeon joins the ranks of AI.
Don't mind Wilco, CsharpBsharp, he just posts one liners that never add anything to the conversation and, like his comment above, he is usually completely wrong with his knowledge.
The original article was written to attack specifically HP, while if Hesseldahl was someone worth noting he would have done his research and realized that Apple just hired IBM's top chip expert. So obviously IBM builds GREAT machines for cheap they just arent pretty looking. Which paying hundreds of dollars for looks is totally up to personal preference and not everyone wants a pretty laptop that will die in 3 years.
I use to support the underdog (Apple) for being different and better, but since they are climbing the ladder they are acting like they are the Big Dog and everyone else sucks. I mean how annoying is a bunch of cocky script kiddies?
"Duck" tape?
Really?
Another brain surgeon joins the ranks of AI.
This is "duck" tape:
http://www.galleryone.com/images/bul...-duck-tape.jpg
Used when you just can't take one more "AFLAC"!
This is duct tape:
http://www.ducttapefashion.com/
As you can see it has many purposes and can be quite fashionable...
Gotta go... Doing my morning wrap (around my head)... To keep it from exploding.
AFLAC!
This is similar to the Xbox 360 vs. PS3 debate.
The Xbox 360 is cheaper but is missing quite a few features found on the PS3 like Blu-Ray and WiFi. The PS3 is the more expensive console but you get all of these features built-in.
The PS3 is better value if you're going to use all of the features it includes. If you've got a wired network and no interest in movies then the Xbox 360 provides a comparable experience for a lot less money. It's horse for courses.
If you're going to use all of the software that comes with a Mac then it's a no-brainer. If you're not, the decision is less clear cut.
For the record, I've not once contracted a virus on Windows. I don't even run virus protection on my desktop PC. Perhaps I'm lucky? Perhaps its because I don't download pirated software?
I have to agree with you... You make some great points on here. It seems that you can be a mac fan but if post any criticism which in your case is constructive some Jackals will pounce.
The point you make is what I am trying to make. Take the blinders off Apple (and users) and work to improve what is already good.
They are dumbing down things unfortunately. And I feel that it alienates some of the base. Even the iLife suite could be improved by having some sort of advanced mode that could allow for better filtering, organization. Sometimes quite limited but yet amazingly iPhoto has near government grade face recognition.
If you want an example of bad UI try to gift a large quantity of items to someone in iTunes. That is just something I did yesterday and just couldn't understand why they didn't have a basket. Amazing that they can overlook the "internet infancy era" BASKET.
The thing is that there is some arrogance. I have contacted them directly on improvements and have always gotten an engineer who is in complete denial that there is a problem. Free advice... I felt it worthy. Much like the "Basket" referenced. For however big the gift program is I will be that the bad UI is costing them at least 20% of sales in that segment.
I agree with you. It's unfortunate.
I always find it funny when many ignorant Apple fans touts Mac as a high standard product while on the other hand argues that high standard is unnecessary when Apple lowers the bar.
You can only use 3 of the 4 GBs of ram in the HP laptop featured in the commercial, did you realize that? Why would HP include ram that windows cant even use? Why does microsoft want you to buy it?
I think once you answer the above question honestly, you'll realize how snarky you ended up.
IMO, of course. Heh.
p.s. The Windows security and PC repair industries are a multi-billion dollar a year segments. 'buy a cheap pc, steal software from dad' argument = not so good.
Uh.. a lot of machines ship with 64bit Windows now.... so using the 4Gb isn't really a problem.