This entire post is lame. The rules of the forum also imply to profanity, yes? For me to say a soccer mom would choose a computer that looks good in her kitchen is about as intelligent as to think it would have to be a tower. Aesthetics mean something in the kitchen. Some homes are designed with a work station in the kitchen. The new AOI from Dell (19") is more than likely designed with a kitchen or two in mind. I don't know ANY female who would want any more wires than are necessary. Advantage AIO, NOT tower. I wrote a post on page one, and thought it had something to do with the original topic. As far as I can tell, nobody looked at it. Perhaps people are too busy skimming the list to see if anyone has replied to their message. Sorry if my bent sense of humor looks like an attack. Using the silly smiles all the time gets old.
The picture is not focusing on aesthetics, it focuses on simplicity for the same function and features. For the average computer user an AIO (Mac or PC) does exactly the same as a tower minus the wires hassle and wasted space (CPU and monitor). As Sol said, replace the iMac in the picture with Dells AIO and the argument still stand that AIO is better choice & this is probably why Apple is not going into the consumer side of tower computers.
You obviously didn?t read it because NasserAE was responding to someone claiming that a soccer mom would choose a tower, not a Dell AIO, hence the comparison pic he choose. A comparison of an XPS and an XPS One would have resulted in the same win for Nasser?s argument.
Doesn't matter, since the 20" Dell XPS sells for $1,367 and has a slower processor, smaller hard drive and weaker graphics than the $1,199 20" iMac.
It's a free market, so if Apple's too expensive, don't buy it. .
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
No. Apple is saying you cannot install their products on machine and sell them for profit without their permission. Apple never went after individuals who install Mac OS on their hackintosh. Apple did not even mention individuals in this lawsuit.
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
This has nothing to do with a "free market." When someone asserts the right to sell products owned by others, that's not a free market, it's a corrupt market.
For some people, they buy a computer and never even look to see what is inside. No need. I am that way, plus I'd just break something and have to pay someone else to fix it. Others, buy a computer and can't wait to get it open. I recall that from my days at Radio Shack in the early 80's. Guys were buying and opening up the Color Computer faster than you could say, void if sticker is removed. The mini is not designed to be tinkered with, nor is the iMac. So anyone who wants a modestly priced tower must go elsewhere. Nothing has to be forever. Why doesn't Apple do what I said on page one of this thread, and use some lower priced components in the Pro box, and see if anyone bites. As I also mentioned, it is possible to buy used G5 towers at new iMac prices.
Doesn't matter, since the 20" Dell XPS sells for $1,367 and has a slower processor, smaller hard drive and weaker graphics than the $1,199 20" iMac.
Didn't they move to a low-power desktop-grade CPU? Regardless, I'd expect Dell to cost more on this front as they have experience and will sell a lot less than Apple on this front. On top of that, the price is well abor there average price so they are more likely to pull for a real profit margin whereas Apple may actually be wiling to cut a little off as this is below there average price point (speculation).
Because people are taking what I said out of context. All I want is a Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro...
You are likely correct that there would be a lot of people who would buy that hypothetical machine. But I think that you are overlooking the issue of cross-product elasticities: many of those people would buy that machine instead of settling for the Mac mini, the iMac, the MBP 13 or (maybe) the Mac Pro - all of which have good to excellent profit margins. The machine you describe would, by definition, have a modest profit margin (otherwise noone would be interested in it). So Apple would sell more units of the new machine, fewer units of the other ones possibly making overall less profit. Suddenly this does not look so attractive (unless the objective is pure market share which does not appear to be the case).
Now I don't know that this is so - I am just describing the kind of thinking that would lead to Apple's reluctance to make such a machine. Disappointing from a user's point of view but entirely understandable from the company's perspective.
Didn't they move to a low-power desktop-grade CPU? Regardless, I'd expect Dell to cost more on this front as they have experience and will sell a lot less than Apple on this front. On top of that, the price is well abor there average price so they are more likely to pull for a real profit margin whereas Apple may actually be wiling to cut a little off as this is below there average price point (speculation).
Beats me. I just checked for the first time today. The CD2 they use in the base machine is the 2.0 Ghz model. I certainly think that it's interesting to find that Dell's AIO is more expensive and less powerful than an iMac. If I'm going to theorize about why this is, I'd surmise that Apple is more experienced in designing and manufacturing AIOs, and also that the "Apple tax" is either a myth, a fantasy, or both.
But wait ... The more Mac sales there are, the more computers power up with iTunes and have access to the iTunes Store. Gee, more song downloads, movie rentals and purchases, better chance someone gets an iPod or iPhone, buys apps for it. The list goes on. While the Mac is an important profit center for Apple, it is by far, not the only one.
But wait ... The more Mac sales there are, the more computers power up with iTunes and have access to the iTunes Store. Gee, more song downloads, movie rentals and purchases, better chance someone gets an iPod or iPhone, buys apps for it. The list goes on. While the Mac is an important profit center for Apple, it is by far, not the only one.
I think you got it backward. One of the reasons Mac are selling more is because more people are buying iPods and iPhones and like what they see. Here is an article on AI in 2005.
Beats me. I just checked for the first time today. The CD2 they use in the base machine is the 2.0 Ghz model. I certainly think that it's interesting to find that Dell's AIO is more expensive and less powerful than an iMac. If I'm going to theorize about why this is, I'd surmise that Apple is more experienced in designing and manufacturing AIOs, and also that the "Apple tax" is either a myth, a fantasy, or both.
You get $50 off instantly, so the price starts at $1,317. Then to be nice i’ll knock another $80 off the price since that goes to Global Fund to help prepare African babies to get adopted by Hollywood celebrities or something, so the price is now $1237.
Dell is using an old Allendale/SantaRosa architecture desktop processor that is 65nm, 2 MB L2 Cache, 800 MT/s CPU that cost $113 back in 2007 when it was introduced. Contrast that to the 45nm, 6MB L2 Cache, 1066 MT/s CPU that cost $348 when released.
That isn’t even considering the XPS One’s DDR2 667MHz RAM, 250GB HDD, Intel GMA 3100 IGP, 80°*viewing angle compared to the iMac’s DDR3 1067MHz RAM, 320GB HDD, Nvidia 9400M IGP, 160° viewing angle, etc.
I’m guessing that the XPS One has not been a good seller for Dell so they are just holding it until they can get rid of stock, but that doesn’t explain the excessive price for such old components.
I built my own i7 920 system by buying parts from Newegg and Amazon. I had a local computer shop put it together for $100. I then purchased a retail copy of Leopard and installed 10.5.7 on it. It's very easy to do. Just make sure you buy 2 internal hard drives; it makes the install much easier. I spent $1300 for an i7 920 2.6 system with 6 Gigs of RAM. The system flies and it will be even better once Snow Leopard comes out with its native 64 bit support.
Those considering a MacPro should strongly consider building their own. I have no issues whatsoever with my i7 build.
Bro, I am an avid fan of Mac OS X. I want to keep using it. But Apple's hardware is a different story.
I *HATE* the iMac. I love towers, but the Mac Pro price is ridicules.
They lowered the price on the MB Air $700!!! Just like that! in a sec! WTF?! This means people that bought a MB Air just a day before paid a $700 premium! THIEVES!
GIVE ME A NORMAL MAC.
Core i7 920 (costs $280)
Supporting up to 16G of normal DDR3 RAM
BAM the price goes down to a normal scale.
GIMME YOUR BEST SHOT FELLOW MAC USERS: EXPLAIN TO ME WTF IS THEIR PROBLEM WITH GIVING US MAC USERS A SYSTEM LIKE THAT?!
If Dell was to cut $700 out of the Adamo, they would release a "new model" that fills exactly the gap the "replaced" one with minor design changes. The same thing, done in a way to fool the consumer.
No one is saying Psystar are doing the right thing. No one says that Apple should not sue their ass to kngdom come. They should. But what Psystar is showing you is that Apple is f*cking us up our collective asses in various ways. I, WILL NOT buy hardware that is twice expensive because this is what Mr. Jobs decided that I needed. Sorry - on my ass, there is a big NO ENTRY sign!
Trust me, Apple is eventually going to lose. They may shut down psystar, but then there will be another one and another one and another one. They can't go after every company and eventually some judge somewhere will rule against their ULA and it will be over. They should keep the customers that like their software - people like me.
The customer is always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
So, lets say I was a soccer mom looking for a computer. My knowledge of computers is moderate, and I'm looking for something with stability, ease of use, and peace of mind. I want a decent amount of power across the board. A simple mid level tower. What can Apple do for me? Is that not a large enough of a demographic for Apple to pay attention to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
I did explain, but you didn't catch on: I said it's like comparing a dvd/tv combo to a home theater.
So what happens when the dvd player in a dvd/tv combo breaks? What happens when you want a bigger monitor on an imac?
The imac is a cool machine, but it's completely impractical to compare it to a loaded dell xps.
Why would the soccer mom want either of those!?
If you dont like what Apple is offering, buy from one of its competitors. There are lots of them, Dell, Sony, HP, Acer, Asususus, etc. Use your wallet against Apple instead of this thread.
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
This has nothing to do with a "free market." When someone asserts the right to sell products owned by others, that's not a free market, it's a corrupt market.
There is no free market for STEALING others' hard earn R&D and products. Don't let MS and Apple different BUSINESS MODELS confuse you.
Comments
This entire post is lame. The rules of the forum also imply to profanity, yes? For me to say a soccer mom would choose a computer that looks good in her kitchen is about as intelligent as to think it would have to be a tower. Aesthetics mean something in the kitchen. Some homes are designed with a work station in the kitchen. The new AOI from Dell (19") is more than likely designed with a kitchen or two in mind. I don't know ANY female who would want any more wires than are necessary. Advantage AIO, NOT tower. I wrote a post on page one, and thought it had something to do with the original topic. As far as I can tell, nobody looked at it. Perhaps people are too busy skimming the list to see if anyone has replied to their message. Sorry if my bent sense of humor looks like an attack. Using the silly smiles all the time gets old.
The picture is not focusing on aesthetics, it focuses on simplicity for the same function and features. For the average computer user an AIO (Mac or PC) does exactly the same as a tower minus the wires hassle and wasted space (CPU and monitor). As Sol said, replace the iMac in the picture with Dells AIO and the argument still stand that AIO is better choice & this is probably why Apple is not going into the consumer side of tower computers.
You obviously didn?t read it because NasserAE was responding to someone claiming that a soccer mom would choose a tower, not a Dell AIO, hence the comparison pic he choose. A comparison of an XPS and an XPS One would have resulted in the same win for Nasser?s argument.
Doesn't matter, since the 20" Dell XPS sells for $1,367 and has a slower processor, smaller hard drive and weaker graphics than the $1,199 20" iMac.
It's a free market, so if Apple's too expensive, don't buy it. .
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
No. Apple is saying you cannot install their products on machine and sell them for profit without their permission. Apple never went after individuals who install Mac OS on their hackintosh. Apple did not even mention individuals in this lawsuit.
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
This has nothing to do with a "free market." When someone asserts the right to sell products owned by others, that's not a free market, it's a corrupt market.
Doesn't matter, since the 20" Dell XPS sells for $1,367 and has a slower processor, smaller hard drive and weaker graphics than the $1,199 20" iMac.
Didn't they move to a low-power desktop-grade CPU? Regardless, I'd expect Dell to cost more on this front as they have experience and will sell a lot less than Apple on this front. On top of that, the price is well abor there average price so they are more likely to pull for a real profit margin whereas Apple may actually be wiling to cut a little off as this is below there average price point (speculation).
Because people are taking what I said out of context. All I want is a Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro...
You are likely correct that there would be a lot of people who would buy that hypothetical machine. But I think that you are overlooking the issue of cross-product elasticities: many of those people would buy that machine instead of settling for the Mac mini, the iMac, the MBP 13 or (maybe) the Mac Pro - all of which have good to excellent profit margins. The machine you describe would, by definition, have a modest profit margin (otherwise noone would be interested in it). So Apple would sell more units of the new machine, fewer units of the other ones possibly making overall less profit. Suddenly this does not look so attractive (unless the objective is pure market share which does not appear to be the case).
Now I don't know that this is so - I am just describing the kind of thinking that would lead to Apple's reluctance to make such a machine. Disappointing from a user's point of view but entirely understandable from the company's perspective.
Didn't they move to a low-power desktop-grade CPU? Regardless, I'd expect Dell to cost more on this front as they have experience and will sell a lot less than Apple on this front. On top of that, the price is well abor there average price so they are more likely to pull for a real profit margin whereas Apple may actually be wiling to cut a little off as this is below there average price point (speculation).
Beats me. I just checked for the first time today. The CD2 they use in the base machine is the 2.0 Ghz model. I certainly think that it's interesting to find that Dell's AIO is more expensive and less powerful than an iMac. If I'm going to theorize about why this is, I'd surmise that Apple is more experienced in designing and manufacturing AIOs, and also that the "Apple tax" is either a myth, a fantasy, or both.
I wonder if maybe Apple should concentrate on notebook machines, since it looks like the Psystar desktop is exactly what I want.
Good choice!
But wait ... The more Mac sales there are, the more computers power up with iTunes and have access to the iTunes Store. Gee, more song downloads, movie rentals and purchases, better chance someone gets an iPod or iPhone, buys apps for it. The list goes on. While the Mac is an important profit center for Apple, it is by far, not the only one.
I think you got it backward. One of the reasons Mac are selling more is because more people are buying iPods and iPhones and like what they see. Here is an article on AI in 2005.
Beats me. I just checked for the first time today. The CD2 they use in the base machine is the 2.0 Ghz model. I certainly think that it's interesting to find that Dell's AIO is more expensive and less powerful than an iMac. If I'm going to theorize about why this is, I'd surmise that Apple is more experienced in designing and manufacturing AIOs, and also that the "Apple tax" is either a myth, a fantasy, or both.
You get $50 off instantly, so the price starts at $1,317. Then to be nice i’ll knock another $80 off the price since that goes to Global Fund to help prepare African babies to get adopted by Hollywood celebrities or something, so the price is now $1237.
Dell is using an old Allendale/SantaRosa architecture desktop processor that is 65nm, 2 MB L2 Cache, 800 MT/s CPU that cost $113 back in 2007 when it was introduced. Contrast that to the 45nm, 6MB L2 Cache, 1066 MT/s CPU that cost $348 when released.
That isn’t even considering the XPS One’s DDR2 667MHz RAM, 250GB HDD, Intel GMA 3100 IGP, 80°*viewing angle compared to the iMac’s DDR3 1067MHz RAM, 320GB HDD, Nvidia 9400M IGP, 160° viewing angle, etc.
I’m guessing that the XPS One has not been a good seller for Dell so they are just holding it until they can get rid of stock, but that doesn’t explain the excessive price for such old components.
Those considering a MacPro should strongly consider building their own. I have no issues whatsoever with my i7 build.
Bro, I am an avid fan of Mac OS X. I want to keep using it. But Apple's hardware is a different story.
I *HATE* the iMac. I love towers, but the Mac Pro price is ridicules.
They lowered the price on the MB Air $700!!! Just like that! in a sec! WTF?! This means people that bought a MB Air just a day before paid a $700 premium! THIEVES!
GIVE ME A NORMAL MAC.
Core i7 920 (costs $280)
Supporting up to 16G of normal DDR3 RAM
BAM the price goes down to a normal scale.
GIMME YOUR BEST SHOT FELLOW MAC USERS: EXPLAIN TO ME WTF IS THEIR PROBLEM WITH GIVING US MAC USERS A SYSTEM LIKE THAT?!
If Dell was to cut $700 out of the Adamo, they would release a "new model" that fills exactly the gap the "replaced" one with minor design changes. The same thing, done in a way to fool the consumer.
You guys are just not listening.
No one is saying Psystar are doing the right thing. No one says that Apple should not sue their ass to kngdom come. They should. But what Psystar is showing you is that Apple is f*cking us up our collective asses in various ways. I, WILL NOT buy hardware that is twice expensive because this is what Mr. Jobs decided that I needed. Sorry - on my ass, there is a big NO ENTRY sign!
Trust me, Apple is eventually going to lose. They may shut down psystar, but then there will be another one and another one and another one. They can't go after every company and eventually some judge somewhere will rule against their ULA and it will be over. They should keep the customers that like their software - people like me.
The customer is always right.
So, lets say I was a soccer mom looking for a computer. My knowledge of computers is moderate, and I'm looking for something with stability, ease of use, and peace of mind. I want a decent amount of power across the board. A simple mid level tower. What can Apple do for me? Is that not a large enough of a demographic for Apple to pay attention to?
I did explain, but you didn't catch on: I said it's like comparing a dvd/tv combo to a home theater.
So what happens when the dvd player in a dvd/tv combo breaks? What happens when you want a bigger monitor on an imac?
The imac is a cool machine, but it's completely impractical to compare it to a loaded dell xps.
Why would the soccer mom want either of those!?
If you dont like what Apple is offering, buy from one of its competitors. There are lots of them, Dell, Sony, HP, Acer, Asususus, etc. Use your wallet against Apple instead of this thread.
Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
This has nothing to do with a "free market." When someone asserts the right to sell products owned by others, that's not a free market, it's a corrupt market.
There is no free market for STEALING others' hard earn R&D and products. Don't let MS and Apple different BUSINESS MODELS confuse you.
Since Apple doesn't make what you want you can buy another brand of desktop computers. There are a lot of other Apple-competitors.