- You can no longer set the Start menu to "Classic Start Menu" view.
How exactly is this a "con?" It's called an opinion.
Quote:
- Dock-like taskbar pales in comparison to the real Dock in OSX. (Hard to tell when an app is running or not, no drag/drop rearrange, hard to tell when more than one window is open for an item without clicking, etc.)
First off, the taskbar in Windows 7 is *NOT* trying to accomplish the same thing as Mac OS X's Dock. They have different design philosophies... the taskbar has always been about window management and the Dock has always been about application launching.
Secondly, you're telling me that a little tiny white dot on the Mac OS X Dock is somehow easier to see than a large square that fills in with color on the mouseover on Window 7's taskbar? I get that obviously everyone sees screen widgets differently, but seriously, unless you're very blind, it's not hard at all to see which applications are actually running on the Windows 7 taskbar.
Also, "no drag/drop rearrange?" Have you used Windows 7 at all, or have you just claimed to? You didn't realize you just click and hold on the application icon and move it anywhere you want to on the taskbar, just like you can with the Mac OS X Dock? Did you not realize that you can drag/drop application icons directly from the Desktop and/or Start menu onto the taskbar? Have you never right-clicked on icons and seen the "pin to taskbar" option?
Seriously, did you really use Windows 7 at all?
Quote:
Win 7 will get out there, as I'm sure lots of new computers will ship with it, but from an upgrade perspective, I don't see why anyone would upgrade at all (especially at over $100 for an upgrade) since most of the new features can be added to XP for free using plugins.
I guess I'm just spoiled with Snow Leopard. \
Okay, please give me a list of free plugins for Windows XP that will replicate the numerous new technologies and features that are in both Windows Vista and Windows 7. Specificially, show me free XP plugins that replicate Instant Search, BitLocker, UAC, the new kernel version, the hardware-accelerated GPU Aero desktop and sandboxed 64-bit IE8.
Also, you claim that no one will want to upgrade to Windows 7 when they cost over $100 (a half-truth), yet all the Apple worshipers here seem perfectly content having paid $129 for every single Mac OS X upgrade between 10.2 and 10.5.
This is great news from a consumer stand point. Will Microsoft's closing the gap actually make Apple work harder to provide an even better customer experience? I sure hope so.
two things Vista and 7 have that SL doesn't is full native 64 bit support and randomizing the memory space for security reasons. my laptop runs native x64 Windows 7 and any "legacy" crap i have a virtual XP machine. MS rewrote virtual PC for WIndows 7 Ultimate where it takes advantage of VT on the CPU and it runs almost as fast as on the bare hardware.
itunes works just fine on Windows 7 x64
OS X has since 2000 and before that Protected Memory. In windows you can open a JPG file that contains a virus or like and it can infect system files that are in memory because it doesn't "protect" the memory. Win 7 randomizes much like Vista but it's still not the correct way to go about protecting the memory environment.
Virtual PC rewrite I think was started 2 years ago to take advantage of the VT... But your correct in stating that capability wasn't available until 7... It was however capable in every other OS on the planet.
Correct me, but the XP VM system... Is that gonna be avail on 7 Home?
My impression from reading (parts of) Walt Mossberg's reviews over the years is that he is a very reluctant Apple fan; if he is a fan at all.
He is more a wolf in sheepskin if you ask me.
Anyhow, he missed the point completely. Snow Leopard has LLVM, WebKit (HTML5), GCD and openCL under its skin. And Apple is at the forefront of software technology. This is essential for the (near) future. And Apple will, because of its software skills, and smart use of the open source community, dominate even more in the years to come.
J.
Yes, they are so dominate with the 10% market share they've just recently earned after having spent over a decade with somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-6% market share.
Sorry, but until Apple is able to take over the enterprise market (which will probably never happen), they will never have any serious market share outside of a consumer market.
WRONG- Apple has not had a dock since 1988 in its OS. No more wasting my time.
Wrong.. Apple purchased Next, which also hailed Steve Jobs coming back to Apple, and then used it as the Base for OS X! The Dock which was in Next, became the Dock in OS X and has been in every consumer release of OS X since it's inception. Apple Did not have a dock in it's previous OS's, but every version of OS X is basically a form of Next.
OS X has since 2000 and before that Protected Memory. In windows you can open a JPG file that contains a virus or like and it can infect system files that are in memory because it doesn't "protect" the memory. Win 7 randomizes much like Vista but it's still not the correct way to go about protecting the memory environment.
Virtual PC rewrite I think was started 2 years ago to take advantage of the VT... But your correct in stating that capability wasn't available until 7... It was however capable in every other OS on the planet.
Correct me, but the XP VM system... Is that gonna be avail on 7 Home?
Wrong. The "classic" Mac OS had no protected memory. Ever. Mac OS X wasn't officially released until 2001, and that was the first ever Mac OS by Apple to include both a Terminal and protected memory.
Also... no. Since Windows ME, there has been System File Protection. There is no way a user-level file can rewrite system files unless you specifically tell it to do. (You get a prompt telling you that a system-level file is about to be replaced.)
This is why in Windows XP and later it is not possible to run third-party themes unless a specific system file is overwritten via third-party programs.
not quite. a good portion of mac users also have windows in some incarnation, either on the mac or pc boxen. besides MS real money does not come from the consumer but business and government, just take a look at the liscence scheme. does CAL ring a bell? the point being that there is no threat to microsoft other than microsoft (looking at you ballmer). Apple will never fly in the enterprise, I know I work there. sux but is the truth.
I stopped reading at the second paragraph. Too much wishful thinking.
I use windows 7 nearly as much as I use OS X daily and in many ways it is still a major leap backwards when compared to XP (I'm not saying nothing was improved, LOTS of stuff was improved, but still is just Windows.... It wasn't designed like OS X was, and there is no "under the hood Grand Central"-like stuff in it either.
Grrrrr, there is so much more I wanted to say, but I can't find the words to say it... maybe later
You have no idea what you're talking about. Evidenced by the fact that you believe Windows 7 is both technically inferior to Windows XP and that it doesn't have anything "like Grand Central Dispatch."
They are closing the OS gap (on the desktop at least), but they are losing the overall war. The Mac-iPod-iPhone-iTunes ecosystem is way ahead of anything Microsoft has.
Most corporations have no interest in Vista or Windows 7. They still run XP because of either proprietary software for the business, or the majority of their client boxes are crippled Celerons that are incapable of running anything beyond XP. Companies won't risk the cost of running Windows 7 if it is not compatible with their software programs, and won't even consider buying new hardware just to run it.
Microsoft's high upgrade prices allow them to make money off the home user because they made little or no money off the original purchase of the OS through the hardware purchase. More home users rush out to buy a new OS before any corporation would.
That will all change when XP hits end of life. Same thing happen with 2000.
hard to tell when more than one window is open for an item without clicking
What? The icon changes quite obviously when more than one window is open for the same application by getting a "layered" look. I have to repeat Quillz' question: Are you positively sure that you have actually ever used Windows 7 personally? Screenshots, YouTube videos and looking over ones shoulder don't count.
You forgot "in many ways", it's not like it is getting worse with every version.
Control Panel, somethings about networking, mostly interface stuff.
Actually most of the backwards stuff is just the set of Windows-typical issues that never seem to be fixed....
... like how "help" doesn't help at all (unless you are looking for advice on painfully obvious tasks)
Fine, I may have exaggerated with "major leap", but my point is: you still can't compare it with OS X, specially Snow Leopard, nor say that the gap between Windows and OS X is closed, Windows 7 IS ok, but there is no reason to drool over it and make it seem like it blew SL totally out of the water... and this angers me...
They are closing the OS gap (on the desktop at least), but they are losing the overall war. The Mac-iPod-iPhone-iTunes ecosystem is way ahead of anything Microsoft has.
Right. Because the iPod, iPhone, iTunes and Mac OS X has done so much for Apple's market share.
There is no "war." You use the operating system and/or platform you like best. Some prefer the Mac way. Others prefer the Windows way. And that's just fine.
The simple fact is Microsoft has more market share and probably always will.
You forgot "in many ways", it's not like it is getting worse with every version.
Control Panel, somethings about networking, mostly interface stuff.
Actually most of the backwards stuff is just the set of Windows-typical issues that never seem to be fixed....
... like how "help" doesn't help at all (unless you are looking for advice on painfully obvious tasks)
Fine, I may have exaggerated with "major leap", but my point is: you still can't compare it with OS X, specially Snow Leopard, nor say that the gap between Windows and OS X is closed, Windows 7 IS ok, but there is no reason to drool over it and make it seem like it blew SL totally out of the water... and this angers me...
PS: sorry, my english sucks
Are you serious? You can't compare Mac OS X and Windows? BOTH ARE COMPUTER OPERATING SYSTEMS. They do the same things in different ways. Do you honestly believe you're somehow "better" than someone who uses Windows? Do you let your operating system define your life?
I find it funny that Mac OS X is constantly hailed as "better," etc. and yet has virtually no market share compared to Windows.
As I just posted earlier, some prefer Mac OS X and others prefer Windows. They both do the same things. I can write the exact same document on Mac OS X using Pages, or on Windows using Word. I would get the same output and thus would accomplish the same end goal.
Do research on both operating systems and you'll find they've had different histories, different release cycles, different philosophies and goals but at the end of the day, do the jobs they're supposed to do: operate your computer and let it work for you.
Right. Because the iPod, iPhone, iTunes and Mac OS X has done so much for Apple's market share.
Was that sarcasm?
Apple is worth $170bn, give or take a dime. MS is with 230bn give or take a dime - prior to iTunes/iPod/OS X the numbers were more like 7bn and 320bn
To say that the iPod eco-system and OS X has had no effect, it rediculous, and while Mac market penetration is barely back to where it was in 1994, the market presence of Apple is an order of magnitude higher.
Quote:
The simple fact is Microsoft has more market share and probably always will.
In numbers of desktop operating systems? Maybe, but is that going to remain the defining computing experience going into the 21st century's 2nd decade? I doubt it.
Maybe, but is that going to remain the defining computing experience going into the 21st century's 2nd decade? I doubt it.
Because people will start moving their desk job applications to the iPhone, amirite? Call me when someone has written the first PhD thesis on a mobile phone.
Wrong. The "classic" Mac OS had no protected memory. Ever. Mac OS X wasn't officially released until 2001, and that was the first ever Mac OS by Apple to include both a Terminal and protected memory.
Also... no. Since Windows ME, there has been System File Protection. There is no way a user-level file can rewrite system files unless you specifically tell it to do. (You get a prompt telling you that a system-level file is about to be replaced.)
This is why in Windows XP and later it is not possible to run third-party themes unless a specific system file is overwritten via third-party programs.
Your right classic didn't have it, I was reffering to Next, my mistake.
System file protection is EASILY averted once the system restarts. And I've seen bits taken over by a virus in realtime. Anyone with AV 2009 can tell you it can happen. It writes to the registry under the users credentials, which is probably admin rights, then on restart overwrites the system files.
User32.xxx is real common swapper. Over the summer it was more than half of our calls. It was overwritten either at reboot or in realtime. And that is a system file.
Because people will start moving their desk job applications to the iPhone, amirite? Call me when someone has written the first PhD thesis on a mobile phone.
Maybe I'll call you when the 1st PhD thesis is written on Google Office using Ubuntu, or OS X, or some other OS. Oh wait, that could have already happened. Don't be a smart ass about it, I'm simply saying that the Wintel desktop dominance is no longer guaranteed, or even necessary for compatibility.
Devices are already starting to become more diverse, ARM processors in Netbooks, Linux being shipped with Netbooks, the Apple Tablet (if true) may not be Intel... nVidia is looking to build CPUs. This hasn't happened since the 1980's, so there is a possibility of some greater convergence.
The main reason people needed ever more powerful dekstop PCs was to accomodate graphics resolutions going higher than 320x80, with color, then sound, then 16-bit sound, animation, video, HD video etc etc
Since almost any device can do these things now, it's not necessary to buy a $2000 box to make a home movie, or even a professional one. So no, I can't imagine writing my thesis on an iPhone (or even a tablet), but I don't need a 64-bit Quad core to do it either...
...although I do love my Phenom II x4... it's fracking sweet!
Comments
- You can no longer set the Start menu to "Classic Start Menu" view.
How exactly is this a "con?" It's called an opinion.
- Dock-like taskbar pales in comparison to the real Dock in OSX. (Hard to tell when an app is running or not, no drag/drop rearrange, hard to tell when more than one window is open for an item without clicking, etc.)
First off, the taskbar in Windows 7 is *NOT* trying to accomplish the same thing as Mac OS X's Dock. They have different design philosophies... the taskbar has always been about window management and the Dock has always been about application launching.
Secondly, you're telling me that a little tiny white dot on the Mac OS X Dock is somehow easier to see than a large square that fills in with color on the mouseover on Window 7's taskbar? I get that obviously everyone sees screen widgets differently, but seriously, unless you're very blind, it's not hard at all to see which applications are actually running on the Windows 7 taskbar.
Also, "no drag/drop rearrange?" Have you used Windows 7 at all, or have you just claimed to? You didn't realize you just click and hold on the application icon and move it anywhere you want to on the taskbar, just like you can with the Mac OS X Dock? Did you not realize that you can drag/drop application icons directly from the Desktop and/or Start menu onto the taskbar? Have you never right-clicked on icons and seen the "pin to taskbar" option?
Seriously, did you really use Windows 7 at all?
Win 7 will get out there, as I'm sure lots of new computers will ship with it, but from an upgrade perspective, I don't see why anyone would upgrade at all (especially at over $100 for an upgrade) since most of the new features can be added to XP for free using plugins.
I guess I'm just spoiled with Snow Leopard.
Okay, please give me a list of free plugins for Windows XP that will replicate the numerous new technologies and features that are in both Windows Vista and Windows 7. Specificially, show me free XP plugins that replicate Instant Search, BitLocker, UAC, the new kernel version, the hardware-accelerated GPU Aero desktop and sandboxed 64-bit IE8.
Also, you claim that no one will want to upgrade to Windows 7 when they cost over $100 (a half-truth), yet all the Apple worshipers here seem perfectly content having paid $129 for every single Mac OS X upgrade between 10.2 and 10.5.
two things Vista and 7 have that SL doesn't is full native 64 bit support and randomizing the memory space for security reasons. my laptop runs native x64 Windows 7 and any "legacy" crap i have a virtual XP machine. MS rewrote virtual PC for WIndows 7 Ultimate where it takes advantage of VT on the CPU and it runs almost as fast as on the bare hardware.
itunes works just fine on Windows 7 x64
OS X has since 2000 and before that Protected Memory. In windows you can open a JPG file that contains a virus or like and it can infect system files that are in memory because it doesn't "protect" the memory. Win 7 randomizes much like Vista but it's still not the correct way to go about protecting the memory environment.
Virtual PC rewrite I think was started 2 years ago to take advantage of the VT... But your correct in stating that capability wasn't available until 7... It was however capable in every other OS on the planet.
Correct me, but the XP VM system... Is that gonna be avail on 7 Home?
My impression from reading (parts of) Walt Mossberg's reviews over the years is that he is a very reluctant Apple fan; if he is a fan at all.
He is more a wolf in sheepskin if you ask me.
Anyhow, he missed the point completely. Snow Leopard has LLVM, WebKit (HTML5), GCD and openCL under its skin. And Apple is at the forefront of software technology. This is essential for the (near) future. And Apple will, because of its software skills, and smart use of the open source community, dominate even more in the years to come.
J.
Yes, they are so dominate with the 10% market share they've just recently earned after having spent over a decade with somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-6% market share.
Sorry, but until Apple is able to take over the enterprise market (which will probably never happen), they will never have any serious market share outside of a consumer market.
WRONG- Apple has not had a dock since 1988 in its OS. No more wasting my time.
Wrong.. Apple purchased Next, which also hailed Steve Jobs coming back to Apple, and then used it as the Base for OS X! The Dock which was in Next, became the Dock in OS X and has been in every consumer release of OS X since it's inception. Apple Did not have a dock in it's previous OS's, but every version of OS X is basically a form of Next.
OS X has since 2000 and before that Protected Memory. In windows you can open a JPG file that contains a virus or like and it can infect system files that are in memory because it doesn't "protect" the memory. Win 7 randomizes much like Vista but it's still not the correct way to go about protecting the memory environment.
Virtual PC rewrite I think was started 2 years ago to take advantage of the VT... But your correct in stating that capability wasn't available until 7... It was however capable in every other OS on the planet.
Correct me, but the XP VM system... Is that gonna be avail on 7 Home?
Wrong. The "classic" Mac OS had no protected memory. Ever. Mac OS X wasn't officially released until 2001, and that was the first ever Mac OS by Apple to include both a Terminal and protected memory.
Also... no. Since Windows ME, there has been System File Protection. There is no way a user-level file can rewrite system files unless you specifically tell it to do. (You get a prompt telling you that a system-level file is about to be replaced.)
This is why in Windows XP and later it is not possible to run third-party themes unless a specific system file is overwritten via third-party programs.
not quite. a good portion of mac users also have windows in some incarnation, either on the mac or pc boxen. besides MS real money does not come from the consumer but business and government, just take a look at the liscence scheme. does CAL ring a bell? the point being that there is no threat to microsoft other than microsoft (looking at you ballmer). Apple will never fly in the enterprise, I know I work there. sux but is the truth.
I stopped reading at the second paragraph. Too much wishful thinking.
I use windows 7 nearly as much as I use OS X daily and in many ways it is still a major leap backwards when compared to XP (I'm not saying nothing was improved, LOTS of stuff was improved, but still is just Windows.... It wasn't designed like OS X was, and there is no "under the hood Grand Central"-like stuff in it either.
Grrrrr, there is so much more I wanted to say, but I can't find the words to say it... maybe later
You have no idea what you're talking about. Evidenced by the fact that you believe Windows 7 is both technically inferior to Windows XP and that it doesn't have anything "like Grand Central Dispatch."
Do a little research.
But you do get Windows Live Essentials, which is a pretty competent suite. And its free
That was a joke, right?
Most corporations have no interest in Vista or Windows 7. They still run XP because of either proprietary software for the business, or the majority of their client boxes are crippled Celerons that are incapable of running anything beyond XP. Companies won't risk the cost of running Windows 7 if it is not compatible with their software programs, and won't even consider buying new hardware just to run it.
Microsoft's high upgrade prices allow them to make money off the home user because they made little or no money off the original purchase of the OS through the hardware purchase. More home users rush out to buy a new OS before any corporation would.
That will all change when XP hits end of life. Same thing happen with 2000.
hard to tell when more than one window is open for an item without clicking
What? The icon changes quite obviously when more than one window is open for the same application by getting a "layered" look. I have to repeat Quillz' question: Are you positively sure that you have actually ever used Windows 7 personally? Screenshots, YouTube videos and looking over ones shoulder don't count.
Well I am curious why you think it's
You forgot "in many ways", it's not like it is getting worse with every version.
Control Panel, somethings about networking, mostly interface stuff.
Actually most of the backwards stuff is just the set of Windows-typical issues that never seem to be fixed....
... like how "help" doesn't help at all (unless you are looking for advice on painfully obvious tasks)
Fine, I may have exaggerated with "major leap", but my point is: you still can't compare it with OS X, specially Snow Leopard, nor say that the gap between Windows and OS X is closed, Windows 7 IS ok, but there is no reason to drool over it and make it seem like it blew SL totally out of the water... and this angers me...
PS: sorry, my english sucks
They are closing the OS gap (on the desktop at least), but they are losing the overall war. The Mac-iPod-iPhone-iTunes ecosystem is way ahead of anything Microsoft has.
Right. Because the iPod, iPhone, iTunes and Mac OS X has done so much for Apple's market share.
There is no "war." You use the operating system and/or platform you like best. Some prefer the Mac way. Others prefer the Windows way. And that's just fine.
The simple fact is Microsoft has more market share and probably always will.
You forgot "in many ways", it's not like it is getting worse with every version.
Control Panel, somethings about networking, mostly interface stuff.
Actually most of the backwards stuff is just the set of Windows-typical issues that never seem to be fixed....
... like how "help" doesn't help at all (unless you are looking for advice on painfully obvious tasks)
Fine, I may have exaggerated with "major leap", but my point is: you still can't compare it with OS X, specially Snow Leopard, nor say that the gap between Windows and OS X is closed, Windows 7 IS ok, but there is no reason to drool over it and make it seem like it blew SL totally out of the water... and this angers me...
PS: sorry, my english sucks
Are you serious? You can't compare Mac OS X and Windows? BOTH ARE COMPUTER OPERATING SYSTEMS. They do the same things in different ways. Do you honestly believe you're somehow "better" than someone who uses Windows? Do you let your operating system define your life?
I find it funny that Mac OS X is constantly hailed as "better," etc. and yet has virtually no market share compared to Windows.
As I just posted earlier, some prefer Mac OS X and others prefer Windows. They both do the same things. I can write the exact same document on Mac OS X using Pages, or on Windows using Word. I would get the same output and thus would accomplish the same end goal.
Do research on both operating systems and you'll find they've had different histories, different release cycles, different philosophies and goals but at the end of the day, do the jobs they're supposed to do: operate your computer and let it work for you.
Right. Because the iPod, iPhone, iTunes and Mac OS X has done so much for Apple's market share.
Was that sarcasm?
Apple is worth $170bn, give or take a dime. MS is with 230bn give or take a dime - prior to iTunes/iPod/OS X the numbers were more like 7bn and 320bn
To say that the iPod eco-system and OS X has had no effect, it rediculous, and while Mac market penetration is barely back to where it was in 1994, the market presence of Apple is an order of magnitude higher.
The simple fact is Microsoft has more market share and probably always will.
In numbers of desktop operating systems? Maybe, but is that going to remain the defining computing experience going into the 21st century's 2nd decade? I doubt it.
Maybe, but is that going to remain the defining computing experience going into the 21st century's 2nd decade? I doubt it.
Because people will start moving their desk job applications to the iPhone, amirite? Call me when someone has written the first PhD thesis on a mobile phone.
Wrong. The "classic" Mac OS had no protected memory. Ever. Mac OS X wasn't officially released until 2001, and that was the first ever Mac OS by Apple to include both a Terminal and protected memory.
Also... no. Since Windows ME, there has been System File Protection. There is no way a user-level file can rewrite system files unless you specifically tell it to do. (You get a prompt telling you that a system-level file is about to be replaced.)
This is why in Windows XP and later it is not possible to run third-party themes unless a specific system file is overwritten via third-party programs.
Your right classic didn't have it, I was reffering to Next, my mistake.
System file protection is EASILY averted once the system restarts. And I've seen bits taken over by a virus in realtime. Anyone with AV 2009 can tell you it can happen. It writes to the registry under the users credentials, which is probably admin rights, then on restart overwrites the system files.
User32.xxx is real common swapper. Over the summer it was more than half of our calls. It was overwritten either at reboot or in realtime. And that is a system file.
Was that sarcasm?
Apple is worth $170bn, give or take a dime. MS is with 230bn give or take a dime - prior to iTunes/iPod/OS X the numbers were more like 7bn and 320bn
Don't forget the all too important part... 9% market share vs 83%... Cash flow is close but market share is way off. Imagine when it's 20%!
Because people will start moving their desk job applications to the iPhone, amirite? Call me when someone has written the first PhD thesis on a mobile phone.
Maybe I'll call you when the 1st PhD thesis is written on Google Office using Ubuntu, or OS X, or some other OS. Oh wait, that could have already happened. Don't be a smart ass about it, I'm simply saying that the Wintel desktop dominance is no longer guaranteed, or even necessary for compatibility.
Devices are already starting to become more diverse, ARM processors in Netbooks, Linux being shipped with Netbooks, the Apple Tablet (if true) may not be Intel... nVidia is looking to build CPUs. This hasn't happened since the 1980's, so there is a possibility of some greater convergence.
The main reason people needed ever more powerful dekstop PCs was to accomodate graphics resolutions going higher than 320x80, with color, then sound, then 16-bit sound, animation, video, HD video etc etc
Since almost any device can do these things now, it's not necessary to buy a $2000 box to make a home movie, or even a professional one. So no, I can't imagine writing my thesis on an iPhone (or even a tablet), but I don't need a 64-bit Quad core to do it either...
...although I do love my Phenom II x4... it's fracking sweet!