My sentiments exactly. I love my iPad and use it for what it is primarily intended: media consumption and games. Period.
There IS room for this product type, as the numbers over the few years will prove.
Jeez, this argument is getting old.
I think people are reading too much into this survey. No one is saying it's a replacement for YOUR MacBook Pro. It's certainly not a replacement for MY MacBook Pro, but that is because my MBP is my primary machine.
What I'm seeing and hearing is people choosing or considering a desktop for serious computing needs and an iPad for simpler mobile computing. Maybe that will work out for them and maybe it won't, but the logic makes sense. I know plenty of people who have foregone a desktop altogether for a powerful notebook, but as with all notebooks you pay more for less. Going with a desktop and ARM-based tablet might be the perfect fit for a lot of people.
Besides making the tablet market viable Apple may have also made have also reinvigorated the desktop market.
I'll be purchasing new computers soon and for me It,s the MacBook Pro core i7 because I run Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro, For my wife however, She only uses computers for internet browsing and listening to iTunes which is why she's getting an iPad instead of a MacBook Pro or maybe a 13" MacBook Pro if she really wants it. \
I think people are reading too much into this survey. No one is saying it's a replacement for YOUR MacBook Pro. It's certainly not a replacement for MY MacBook Pro, but that is because my MBP is my primary machine.
What I'm seeing and hearing is people choosing or considering a desktop for serious computing needs and an iPad for simpler mobile computing. Maybe that will work out for them and maybe it won't, but the logic makes sense. I know plenty of people who have foregone a desktop altogether for a powerful notebook, but as will all notebooks you pay more for less. Going with a desktop and ARM-based tablet might be the perfect fit for a lot of people.
Besides making the tablet market viable Apple may have also made have also reinvigorated the desktop market.
All good points. A lot of these arguments can be easily boiled down to, "if it doesn't work for me, it couldn't possibly work for anyone."
I'll be purchasing new computers soon and for me It,s the MacBook Pro core i7 because I run Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro, For my wife however, She only uses computers for internet browsing and listening to iTunes which is why she's getting an iPad instead of a MacBook Pro or maybe a 13" MacBook Pro if she really wants it. \
Which makes complete sense, because she can always use your MacBook to sync data to and from her iPad, but those who make inane claims that the iPad can fully serve as a PC replacement are the way off base... It's A Computer Peripheral - Plain and Simple
Which makes complete sense, because she can always use your MacBook to sync data to and from her iPad, but those who make inane claims that the iPad can fully serve as a PC replacement are the way off base... It's A Computer Peripheral - Plain and Simple
A quick note, because I pulled out of this discussion when it started boiling: the iPad fully serves 98% of the uses of the average consumer and is very helpful to very technical people as well. It does not replace the computer the same as the computer does not replace paper. It can, but life would be very difficult without it right now. Receipts, presentation notes, Post-its, manuals, stickers, etc. are all very much needed today and can't be all replaced by computers without a huge reworking of all those systems. Similarly, the computer is great for programming, extensive video editing and storage, music mixing, etc. and the iPad can't do all them without a large reworking of apps, workflows, and transfer methods. Both of these things can be done, they just need to be accounted for. If your life can account for all or most of these scenarios, it works. If it can't, it doesn't work. This is not a perfect analogy, but I think helpful to the discussion. I understand your point and where you're coming from; I'm merely asking that you consider my view of the situation and see if it's reasonable. Merci.
How has that been proven? Don't you think price is part of the reason the Macbook outsells the Macbook Air?
That's not a good example. A better one would be how Apple is outselling the general PC market with more expensive computers.
Quote:
The already are a mainstream product.
Netbooks are an extremely small fraction of over all computer sales, their numbers don't rival any other category.
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A lot of netbooks have basically full-sized keys. Still a lot better than typing an essay up on a tablet.
The iPad can use a keyboard through USB or bluetooth.
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The same way it works on a netbook? Full-featured with video chat, conferencing, etc. etc?
Now you are making disclaimers. Skype is overwhelming used to make phone calls, very little video communication.
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If you show up somewhere and need to print, chances are there is a USB on hand, same with a projector, external hard drive, etc. Probably no proprietary iPad cables around, though.
Exactly what proprietary cables are you talking about? The iPad uses USB, mini stereo, WiFi, and bluetooth. All standard networking protocols.
Quote:
Tell that to someone with a library of FLAC music on their home PC (quite common), content management system (quite common), or someone who wants to watch a DVD, or has some dvds ripped to MKV or another non-itunes format that they want to watch (also very common).
You are just making up problems.
MP3 is by far the most widely used music codec. To use FLAC you are just needlessly making life more difficult than it has to be.
Why would someone need to rip a DVD into MKV?
Flash has not caused the iPhone any problems. Content distributors simply bypass it and deliver H.264. There is no reason it has to be wrapped in Flash.
Quote:
The iPhone, yet, but do you really think it'll replace the netbook or macbook for video editing, music recording, typing essays etc for most people?
Yes the iPad will outsell netbooks. The iPad is not trying to replace anything for content creation, my point is that there are lots of apps for that use.
Quote:
Oh, I almost forgot in my original post, with a Netbook you can listen to music while having a spreadsheet, word document, web browser, email client and Skype open at the same time!
"All the PCs and laptops are basically not being used. All the Macs are not being used. All have been powered off. Everyone in the family is waiting for their turn at the iPad."
Hmm... things Netbooks do well that the iPad doesn't:
1. Cost $400 or less.
2. Run the same operating system, office programs, etc that their desktops/work computers do (most of the time without needing to pay for an extra copy)
3. Let you type long reports, write long mails, etc on a physical keyboard without needing to carry around an extra plug-in keyboard
4. Skype (maybe there is support for this now, but not last time I checked)
5. Connect to peripherals everywhere easily and without needing to take special cables from home
6. Access file types currently unavailable on the iPad (flash, FLAC, MKV, i'm sure there are more)
7. Show the screen at an acceptable viewing angle for working without holding it in your hands or propping it up against something.
Those were a few things that came to mind... I know there are tons of things the iPad does better, but comparing them like Cook is is really a situation of Apples and Oranges.
Again, iPad excels at accessing information, but Netbooks and Macbooks will have it beat for content creation for a long time to come...
I was initially thinking (not knowing who said that) what kind of Muppet must that person be, but once realising it is one of Apple's top brass, it makes sense - of course Apple would like iPad to replace all the netbooks and cheapo notebooks.
However, it also means Apple do want iPad to be considered computer, and that is not necessarily good for iPad - mor it is considered computer, more it's shortcomings (as a computer) will be surfacing.
Typical scenario would be average George getting iPad because he was told/has seen/read somewhere that iPad is alternative to netbook but much better in a magical sort of way. Average George will see initially there is no keyboard but average George might be light on typing emails, and there is add-on keyboard anyway so average George goes for an iPad believing that is it netbook/notebook replacement (minus the keyboard), capable of doing everything else computer can... and then average George gets pissed off because he can't plug his printer, DVD, digital camera, can't sync his iPod (I'm guessing you can't sync iPad with iPod - can you?)... so hi tells his average mates how disappointed he is and Apple sells one iPad more, but potentially looses much more sales from other people scared away.
I think it's a thin ice. Apple should be adamant what iPad exactly is and concentrate on how good it is at that, rather than trying to advertise it jack of all trades.
I was initially thinking (not knowing who said that) what kind of Muppet must that person be, but once realising it is one of Apple's top brass, it makes sense - of course Apple would like iPad to replace all the netbooks and cheapo notebooks.
However, it also means Apple do want iPad to be considered computer, and that is not necessarily good for iPad - mor it is considered computer, more it's shortcomings (as a computer) will be surfacing.
Typical scenario would be average George getting iPad because he was told/has seen/read somewhere that iPad is alternative to netbook but much better in a magical sort of way. Average George will see initially there is no keyboard but average George might be light on typing emails, and there is add-on keyboard anyway so average George goes for an iPad believing that is it netbook/notebook replacement (minus the keyboard), capable of doing everything else computer can... and then average George gets pissed off because he can't plug his printer, DVD, digital camera, can't sync his iPod (I'm guessing you can't sync iPad with iPod - can you?)... so hi tells his average mates how disappointed he is and Apple sells one iPad more, but potentially looses much more sales from other people scared away.
I think it's a thin ice. Apple should be adamant what iPad exactly is and concentrate on how good it is at that, rather than trying to advertise it jack of all trades.
The one mistakeI think you're making here is that Apple is comparing the iPad to a net book, not a notebook. Netbooks are usually purchased for light word processing, emails, and Internet on the go. That is why they're bought, in addition to their low cost. Netbooks have never been about being a full computer, it's been about cheap and quick access to the Internet and some light popular computer functions. The iPad definitely is better than a netbook then. You have to remember, they said netbook, not notebook. Huge difference.
anyone who thinks the iPad is a notebook replacement is on some serious shiit..
no way in hell is a giant iPod Touch a notebook replacement..
Sure it is, for some people.
Reason: For SOME people even a netbook provides more than they need. I know of many people who have a netbook strictly for:
* email from family
* Facebook
* web surfing
* sync their iPod
* some YouTube videos.
That's all they need their netbook to do. For them the iPad is fine as a netbook replacement, and they plan to get one when available here.
For me it wouldn't appear to be if one compared to what I've used my MacBook for.
However, I plan to get an iPad as a replacement for my MacBook because I also have a 27" iMac, which I now use as my main computer. My MacBook is used solely for travel, and in the backyard.
The combination of the iMac and an iPad is a completely adequate replacement for my iMac and MacBook.
When looking at an iPad or any type of electronics gear, the key thing is to find out what they plan to use the item for. Even a top of the line MacBook Pro could be inadequate for some users. For others, an entry level netbook is more then they need.
Netbooks were selling on average 15,000,000 units a year from introduction in 2008 until now. Keeping in mind slower start, current numbers are much higher; Asus alone was expecting to sell 10 million Eee?s in 2009, from global sales numbers of 20-30 million for that year.
I would say price is important. Not to everyone, of course. But still.
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Running a desktop OS on an 11" screen is not a plus. This is going to be one of primary reasons netbooks don't become a mainstream product.
Netbooks already are mainstream. Additionally, netbooks are - I believe - destined to evolve into 12 - 13" units in near future. 13" Asus U30 without optical drive is still not much heavier than standard netbook (and still thin as) but comes with proper C2D processor and 10+ hours of battery life, decent size HDD and more than enough RAM.
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Typing on those tiny keys is not easy for long reports.
There are very good quality keyboards on selected netbooks, both size and type-feel regarding.
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Skype works on the iPad.
Glad to hear that - my mom will get one for her next birthday
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Seeing as there are different cables for different peripherals, what special cables are you talking about?
I was wondering about this one. Closest match I can think about would be: you can't go with iPad to your mate, plug it to his home lan and copy last party photos from his HDD. And if your printer dies (and you need to print something), you can't go to your mate with iPad, plug his printer's USB cable to your iPad and print your documents. Etc.
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There is no need to support every obscure file type. The iPad only needs to support the most commonly used.
Flash is very commonly used one at present \
Quote:
The iPhone already has a wealth of content creation apps. From creating music, to shooting/editing video, to drawing sketches. The iPad will be a better platform for these apps than the iPhone.
Last one I tried, SketchBookX, was interesting but ultimately useless for any serious work. Some applications just can't be done right with finger-touch input. Some tasks need mouse or stylus.
"That's the second thing: the heavy lifting tasks like printing or importing/manipulating documents that the iPad and the current versions of Pages, Numbers, and Keynote just can't handle."
And that's my point exactly. When and if the next version that can 1) send documents to a networked printer, and 2) not screw up the formatting, and 3) you don't need a third-party app to print, is available, I'll have my credit card ready
I can't see canon, HP, Brother, Epson... doing printer and other drivers for iPad any time soon, but that would be cool.
Comments
I'll be buying a 16GB iPad in a few weeks, but I still don't see how it could be a replacement for my MacBook Pro.
I'm going to be using it mainly as a consumption device and not a content creation device for many reasons (some of which have already been stated).
My sentiments exactly. I love my iPad and use it for what it is primarily intended: media consumption and games. Period.
There IS room for this product type, as the numbers over the few years will prove.
Jeez, this argument is getting old.
My sentiments exactly. I love my iPad and use it for what it is primarily intended: media consumption and games. Period.
There IS room for this product type, as the numbers over the few years will prove.
Jeez, this argument is getting old.
I think people are reading too much into this survey. No one is saying it's a replacement for YOUR MacBook Pro. It's certainly not a replacement for MY MacBook Pro, but that is because my MBP is my primary machine.
What I'm seeing and hearing is people choosing or considering a desktop for serious computing needs and an iPad for simpler mobile computing. Maybe that will work out for them and maybe it won't, but the logic makes sense. I know plenty of people who have foregone a desktop altogether for a powerful notebook, but as with all notebooks you pay more for less. Going with a desktop and ARM-based tablet might be the perfect fit for a lot of people.
Besides making the tablet market viable Apple may have also made have also reinvigorated the desktop market.
Childish Intimidation, Harassment, & Bullying Is Futile - Remember: Your View-Point Is Not The Only Perspective.
There's a monumental difference between one's perspective, and F A C T.
Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand... As Usual
I think people are reading too much into this survey. No one is saying it's a replacement for YOUR MacBook Pro. It's certainly not a replacement for MY MacBook Pro, but that is because my MBP is my primary machine.
What I'm seeing and hearing is people choosing or considering a desktop for serious computing needs and an iPad for simpler mobile computing. Maybe that will work out for them and maybe it won't, but the logic makes sense. I know plenty of people who have foregone a desktop altogether for a powerful notebook, but as will all notebooks you pay more for less. Going with a desktop and ARM-based tablet might be the perfect fit for a lot of people.
Besides making the tablet market viable Apple may have also made have also reinvigorated the desktop market.
All good points. A lot of these arguments can be easily boiled down to, "if it doesn't work for me, it couldn't possibly work for anyone."
I'll be purchasing new computers soon and for me It,s the MacBook Pro core i7 because I run Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro, For my wife however, She only uses computers for internet browsing and listening to iTunes which is why she's getting an iPad instead of a MacBook Pro or maybe a 13" MacBook Pro if she really wants it.
Which makes complete sense, because she can always use your MacBook to sync data to and from her iPad, but those who make inane claims that the iPad can fully serve as a PC replacement are the way off base... It's A Computer Peripheral - Plain and Simple
Hmm... things Netbooks do well that the iPad doesn't:
...............
Again, iPad excels at accessing information, but Netbooks and Macbooks will have it beat for content creation for a long time to come...
hmmmmm. You've missed the point, it's not what you think the iPad can't do, it's what the million or so people who love what it does.
no way in hell is a giant iPod Touch a notebook replacement..
Which makes complete sense, because she can always use your MacBook to sync data to and from her iPad, but those who make inane claims that the iPad can fully serve as a PC replacement are the way off base... It's A Computer Peripheral - Plain and Simple
A quick note, because I pulled out of this discussion when it started boiling: the iPad fully serves 98% of the uses of the average consumer and is very helpful to very technical people as well. It does not replace the computer the same as the computer does not replace paper. It can, but life would be very difficult without it right now. Receipts, presentation notes, Post-its, manuals, stickers, etc. are all very much needed today and can't be all replaced by computers without a huge reworking of all those systems. Similarly, the computer is great for programming, extensive video editing and storage, music mixing, etc. and the iPad can't do all them without a large reworking of apps, workflows, and transfer methods. Both of these things can be done, they just need to be accounted for. If your life can account for all or most of these scenarios, it works. If it can't, it doesn't work. This is not a perfect analogy, but I think helpful to the discussion. I understand your point and where you're coming from; I'm merely asking that you consider my view of the situation and see if it's reasonable. Merci.
Love the iPad for what I bought it for. (A media device, browsing, email, and games) But it's not going to replace my iMac (Love it more)
How has that been proven? Don't you think price is part of the reason the Macbook outsells the Macbook Air?
That's not a good example. A better one would be how Apple is outselling the general PC market with more expensive computers.
The already are a mainstream product.
Netbooks are an extremely small fraction of over all computer sales, their numbers don't rival any other category.
A lot of netbooks have basically full-sized keys. Still a lot better than typing an essay up on a tablet.
The iPad can use a keyboard through USB or bluetooth.
The same way it works on a netbook? Full-featured with video chat, conferencing, etc. etc?
Now you are making disclaimers. Skype is overwhelming used to make phone calls, very little video communication.
If you show up somewhere and need to print, chances are there is a USB on hand, same with a projector, external hard drive, etc. Probably no proprietary iPad cables around, though.
Exactly what proprietary cables are you talking about? The iPad uses USB, mini stereo, WiFi, and bluetooth. All standard networking protocols.
Tell that to someone with a library of FLAC music on their home PC (quite common), content management system (quite common), or someone who wants to watch a DVD, or has some dvds ripped to MKV or another non-itunes format that they want to watch (also very common).
You are just making up problems.
MP3 is by far the most widely used music codec. To use FLAC you are just needlessly making life more difficult than it has to be.
Why would someone need to rip a DVD into MKV?
Flash has not caused the iPhone any problems. Content distributors simply bypass it and deliver H.264. There is no reason it has to be wrapped in Flash.
The iPhone, yet, but do you really think it'll replace the netbook or macbook for video editing, music recording, typing essays etc for most people?
Yes the iPad will outsell netbooks. The iPad is not trying to replace anything for content creation, my point is that there are lots of apps for that use.
Oh, I almost forgot in my original post, with a Netbook you can listen to music while having a spreadsheet, word document, web browser, email client and Skype open at the same time!
On an 11" screen? What's the point?
What iPad Did To My Family
When I gave up PC, I can't stand being anywhere near one.
Hmm... things Netbooks do well that the iPad doesn't:
1. Cost $400 or less.
2. Run the same operating system, office programs, etc that their desktops/work computers do (most of the time without needing to pay for an extra copy)
3. Let you type long reports, write long mails, etc on a physical keyboard without needing to carry around an extra plug-in keyboard
4. Skype (maybe there is support for this now, but not last time I checked)
5. Connect to peripherals everywhere easily and without needing to take special cables from home
6. Access file types currently unavailable on the iPad (flash, FLAC, MKV, i'm sure there are more)
7. Show the screen at an acceptable viewing angle for working without holding it in your hands or propping it up against something.
Those were a few things that came to mind... I know there are tons of things the iPad does better, but comparing them like Cook is is really a situation of Apples and Oranges.
Again, iPad excels at accessing information, but Netbooks and Macbooks will have it beat for content creation for a long time to come...
I was initially thinking (not knowing who said that) what kind of Muppet must that person be, but once realising it is one of Apple's top brass, it makes sense - of course Apple would like iPad to replace all the netbooks and cheapo notebooks.
However, it also means Apple do want iPad to be considered computer, and that is not necessarily good for iPad - mor it is considered computer, more it's shortcomings (as a computer) will be surfacing.
Typical scenario would be average George getting iPad because he was told/has seen/read somewhere that iPad is alternative to netbook but much better in a magical sort of way. Average George will see initially there is no keyboard but average George might be light on typing emails, and there is add-on keyboard anyway so average George goes for an iPad believing that is it netbook/notebook replacement (minus the keyboard), capable of doing everything else computer can... and then average George gets pissed off because he can't plug his printer, DVD, digital camera, can't sync his iPod (I'm guessing you can't sync iPad with iPod - can you?)... so hi tells his average mates how disappointed he is and Apple sells one iPad more, but potentially looses much more sales from other people scared away.
I think it's a thin ice. Apple should be adamant what iPad exactly is and concentrate on how good it is at that, rather than trying to advertise it jack of all trades.
I was initially thinking (not knowing who said that) what kind of Muppet must that person be, but once realising it is one of Apple's top brass, it makes sense - of course Apple would like iPad to replace all the netbooks and cheapo notebooks.
However, it also means Apple do want iPad to be considered computer, and that is not necessarily good for iPad - mor it is considered computer, more it's shortcomings (as a computer) will be surfacing.
Typical scenario would be average George getting iPad because he was told/has seen/read somewhere that iPad is alternative to netbook but much better in a magical sort of way. Average George will see initially there is no keyboard but average George might be light on typing emails, and there is add-on keyboard anyway so average George goes for an iPad believing that is it netbook/notebook replacement (minus the keyboard), capable of doing everything else computer can... and then average George gets pissed off because he can't plug his printer, DVD, digital camera, can't sync his iPod (I'm guessing you can't sync iPad with iPod - can you?)... so hi tells his average mates how disappointed he is and Apple sells one iPad more, but potentially looses much more sales from other people scared away.
I think it's a thin ice. Apple should be adamant what iPad exactly is and concentrate on how good it is at that, rather than trying to advertise it jack of all trades.
The one mistakeI think you're making here is that Apple is comparing the iPad to a net book, not a notebook. Netbooks are usually purchased for light word processing, emails, and Internet on the go. That is why they're bought, in addition to their low cost. Netbooks have never been about being a full computer, it's been about cheap and quick access to the Internet and some light popular computer functions. The iPad definitely is better than a netbook then. You have to remember, they said netbook, not notebook. Huge difference.
All that said, it still replaces my notebook.
anyone who thinks the iPad is a notebook replacement is on some serious shiit..
no way in hell is a giant iPod Touch a notebook replacement..
Sure it is, for some people.
Reason: For SOME people even a netbook provides more than they need. I know of many people who have a netbook strictly for:
* email from family
* Facebook
* web surfing
* sync their iPod
* some YouTube videos.
That's all they need their netbook to do. For them the iPad is fine as a netbook replacement, and they plan to get one when available here.
For me it wouldn't appear to be if one compared to what I've used my MacBook for.
However, I plan to get an iPad as a replacement for my MacBook because I also have a 27" iMac, which I now use as my main computer. My MacBook is used solely for travel, and in the backyard.
The combination of the iMac and an iPad is a completely adequate replacement for my iMac and MacBook.
When looking at an iPad or any type of electronics gear, the key thing is to find out what they plan to use the item for. Even a top of the line MacBook Pro could be inadequate for some users. For others, an entry level netbook is more then they need.
At this point its been proven that cost is not that important of a factor in a products success.
If this info is correct:
http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/um...s-2008-2011/2/
Netbooks were selling on average 15,000,000 units a year from introduction in 2008 until now. Keeping in mind slower start, current numbers are much higher; Asus alone was expecting to sell 10 million Eee?s in 2009, from global sales numbers of 20-30 million for that year.
I would say price is important. Not to everyone, of course. But still.
Running a desktop OS on an 11" screen is not a plus. This is going to be one of primary reasons netbooks don't become a mainstream product.
Netbooks already are mainstream. Additionally, netbooks are - I believe - destined to evolve into 12 - 13" units in near future. 13" Asus U30 without optical drive is still not much heavier than standard netbook (and still thin as) but comes with proper C2D processor and 10+ hours of battery life, decent size HDD and more than enough RAM.
Typing on those tiny keys is not easy for long reports.
There are very good quality keyboards on selected netbooks, both size and type-feel regarding.
Skype works on the iPad.
Glad to hear that - my mom will get one for her next birthday
Seeing as there are different cables for different peripherals, what special cables are you talking about?
I was wondering about this one. Closest match I can think about would be: you can't go with iPad to your mate, plug it to his home lan and copy last party photos from his HDD. And if your printer dies (and you need to print something), you can't go to your mate with iPad, plug his printer's USB cable to your iPad and print your documents. Etc.
There is no need to support every obscure file type. The iPad only needs to support the most commonly used.
Flash is very commonly used one at present
The iPhone already has a wealth of content creation apps. From creating music, to shooting/editing video, to drawing sketches. The iPad will be a better platform for these apps than the iPhone.
Last one I tried, SketchBookX, was interesting but ultimately useless for any serious work. Some applications just can't be done right with finger-touch input. Some tasks need mouse or stylus.
"That's the second thing: the heavy lifting tasks like printing or importing/manipulating documents that the iPad and the current versions of Pages, Numbers, and Keynote just can't handle."
And that's my point exactly. When and if the next version that can 1) send documents to a networked printer, and 2) not screw up the formatting, and 3) you don't need a third-party app to print, is available, I'll have my credit card ready
I can't see canon, HP, Brother, Epson... doing printer and other drivers for iPad any time soon, but that would be cool.