Hey, I know, lets rewrite the entirety of Cocoa in Javascript instead of just adding one feature: the ability to type a URL in to Finder and it automatically downloads and runs a native app in a sandbox.
HTML5 VS Flash may be a discussion in app-land, in games-land the whole discussion doesn't make any sense.
Depends on the game. Watch the Toy Story demo. It's possible to make games that work without Flash. Not to mention the 50,000 or so games on the AppStore that don't use Flash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll
It's forbidden, and running software of your own choice in an iPhone is defined by Apple's legal agreement as a criminal act.
That is, of course, nonsense.
Adobe even admits that they don't have a version that runs on the iPhone. Their minimum hardware requirements are 800 MHz A8 - and there's no guarantee that even that will work well.
Not to mention, of course, that Apple has no say what runs on Symbian or WebOS or Windows Mobile. So if Adobe is capable of coding a full version of flash for mobile devices, why is it that it's not available on ANY platform? If it were so good, wouldn't those other OS vendors want to offer it since you claim it's so critical?
Once again, your name is only half right - you are about as IRrational as it's possible to be.
Pretty much every major web platform developer in the computer industry has a hand in HTML5 at this point. This is a vastly larger pool of talent contributing to it than Unity or Flash has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacloo
That game was created to show the power of hml5 (impressive btw!) but that does not make it a great solution for game developers.
Unity and Flash are simply much better for games. HTML never was ment to be used for games. Hence the name HTML.
Maybe but the poor kids has to suffer Windows as well as anti-virus software, ant-malware and all the rest of the crap that goes with it. How can you do that to the poor kid?
Pretty much every major web platform developer in the computer industry has a hand in HTML5 at this point. This is a vastly larger pool of talent contributing to it than Unity or Flash has.
The problem with this line of thinking, is that you assume that HTML5 will be constantly innovated on, and improving as flash stands still. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I comment as someone who develops in actionscript, css/php/javascript etc for a living. I'll openly admit to liking the flash platform, it's a great platform to develop in, just as the new html5 thing is. I use what makes sense, and it's important not to use a tool gratuitously. I wish more developers would do that. But, I can find just as many horrible css sites as flash, the tool, doesn't make a bad designer/developer...
It seems many, mostly those who don't understand the full storey, try to make this as a html5 vs flash issue. It just isn't. It never was, until Steve Jobs, wants you to believe it is.
HTML5 cannot accomplish everything flash can, far from it. However, what it does do, is finally, bring capabilities to html that should have been long ago, and often we had to leverage flash in tricks and hacks, that we never liked in the first place to accomplish. HTML5 will enable me to do some of the everyday simpler animation, etc. type stuff that I really prefer not to open flash for, and leave the heavy lifting stuff to flash. I've seen some of the html5 animation/game stuff, and really, are we THAT excited that we can do stuff we could do in flash years ago?
Come on. Flash is innovating at an accelerated pace. This whole hooferah has accomplished some real good in my opinion, adobe has indeed been lazy. Now I'm seeing a new player (I've seen in operation) that will run great on mobile phones, major improvements to the platform, and likely will continue to have a fire under their arse to keep improving it. I fully understand why flash is not on the iphone currently.
win win for everyone in my estimation. I'm looking forward to many great new tools, capabilities, in BOTH HTML and flash. When someone starts limiting options, that -isn't- a good thing, for anyone.
As for the flash haters, well, all those annoying ads, etc etc., ain't gonna go away. It isn't the tool that causes them, and should flash actually go down, their will be another tool that will annoy you, even further.
Absolutely, there is a lot of hubris to get past, and surprised I forgot to include that as a reason why they won't do it until it's too late. My point was that between Flash Professional and Dreamweaver they are in the best position to offer a great solution.
I don't now... Flash already exports as quicktime and animated gif so it might not be too hard to imagine HTML5 however Adobe might prefer to make it part of Dreamweaver instead.
I think the main problem with the whole notion that there will soon be a GUI based HTML5 animation tool is dependent on someone being able to figure out how to do it. These frameworks that we have an ever increasing selection of just don't lend themselves to the easy drag and drop timeline event, layers, vectors model that is Flash.
It is going to take a completely different approach to produce a designer friendly tool. Programmers don't really mind having to code and debug hundreds of lines of code to get a desired result but in order for a designer to make money with it, it needs to be a lot more like a rapid application development environment similar to flash.
I don't see in where I said Flash is standing still. Of course Adobe is continuing to improve it.
My point is that Adobe does not have the resources to compete with the entire talent pool that is working on HTML5.
It would be Adobe against the entire W3C, Google, Apple, Webkit, Palm, Microsoft, even Adobe itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
The problem with this line of thinking, is that you assume that HTML5 will be constantly innovated on, and improving as flash stands still. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I think the main problem with the whole notion that there will soon be a GUI based HTML5 animation tool is dependent on someone being able to figure out how to do it. These frameworks that we have an ever increasing selection of just don't lend themselves to the easy drag and drop timeline event, layers, vectors model that is Flash.
It is going to take a completely different approach to produce a designer friendly tool. Programmers don't really mind having to code and debug hundreds of lines of code to get a desired result but in order for a designer to make money with it, it needs to be a lot more like a rapid application development environment similar to flash.
I don't see in where I said Flash is standing still. Of course Adobe is continuing to improve it.
My point is that Adobe does not have the resources to compete with the entire talent pool that is working on HTML5.
It would be Adobe against the entire W3C, Google, Apple, Webkit, Palm, Microsoft, even Adobe itself.
ok, there needs to be some sanity here.
First of all, adobe is very much a part of that talent pool working on HTML5. They, and it's customers are all just as excited in the development and the release of HTML5. So it is NOT Adobe against the rest. VERY, far from it.
Second, in the past decade, flash developers have not had any problems with resources to bring their platform to the level it is now. Why is it suddenly so different all of a sudden? Because Steve Jobs says so?
Not likely.
No, the survival of flash, will rest on adobe's ability to innovate, and deliver on a great player and user experience on both the desktop and mobile platforms. I've seen the beta, it's very promising. We'll see how this plays out.
But this html5 vs flash, absolute pap for the masses to swallow truthfully.
First of all, adobe is very much a part of that talent pool working on HTML5. They, and it's customers are all just as excited in the development and the release of HTML5. So it is NOT Adobe against the rest. VERY, far from it.
Are you even reading what I'm writing. In my list of companies that are supporting HTML5, I said "even Adobe itself".
Quote:
Second, in the past decade, flash developers have not had any problems with resources to bring their platform to the level it is now. Why is it suddenly so different all of a sudden? Because Steve Jobs says so?
Not likely.
Its different because things are changing. Steve Jobs focus is not on Flash itself, Jobs focus is on how everything is changing and Flash does not suit the new environment.
Flash worked perfectly fine as long as most of the computer industry was using desktops with ample system resources and plugged into unlimited power supplies.
The industry is shifting to mobile devices that have extremely limited system resources and extremely limited power supplies. These devices require lightweight and energy efficient software. Flash ain't it.
Quote:
No, the survival of flash, will rest on adobe's ability to innovate, and deliver on a great player and user experience on both the desktop and mobile platforms. I've seen the beta, it's very promising. We'll see how this plays out.
Seeing as every mobile platform does or soon will fully support HTML5 and no phone currently fully run Flash.
Every major website is developing a "Flashless" version with pure H.264 video delivery.
Adobe keeps pushing back Flash for the mobile device.
First of all, Adobe is very much a part of that talent pool working on HTML5. They, and it's customers are all just as excited in the development and the release of HTML5. So it is NOT Adobe against the rest. VERY, far from it. ...
If we are talking about truth, then it needs to be pointed out that you are spinning it fairly hard here.
Yes, it's technically true that Adobe is part of the team working very hard on HTML5, but you fail to mention that they are at the same time, working to push the HTML5 group away from using or developing the "Canvas" elementwhich is the part of HTML5 that would basically replace Flash animations on the web.
"Adobe is working hard on making sure that Flash animations don't get replaced by HTML5's Canvas element." (and thus make the Flash plugin obsolete), would be the closest to a true and accurate statement.
What? Just because I think of Giardia whenever I read the name and can't pronounce it doesn't mean it's bad. Another similarity is that Giardia is in brown stuff, too, just... different brown stuff.
I suggest they change the name to Giada. Hubba hubba! Who's with me?
Comments
Flash is SLOW on my PB G4, 1.67, 1GB RAM, 10.4.11.... - YouTube is choppy, Vimeo is worse!
They all run smoothly on my kid's Dell Netbook.
should be called Mocha - bring java back to its roots
Unity and Flash are simply much better for games. HTML never was ment to be used for games. Hence the name HTML.
Hmmm...really?
Google Shows How HTML5 Can Run Quake In The Browser
You cannot make web games with Html5.
HTML5 VS Flash may be a discussion in app-land, in games-land the whole discussion doesn't make any sense.
Depends on the game. Watch the Toy Story demo. It's possible to make games that work without Flash. Not to mention the 50,000 or so games on the AppStore that don't use Flash.
It's forbidden, and running software of your own choice in an iPhone is defined by Apple's legal agreement as a criminal act.
That is, of course, nonsense.
Adobe even admits that they don't have a version that runs on the iPhone. Their minimum hardware requirements are 800 MHz A8 - and there's no guarantee that even that will work well.
Not to mention, of course, that Apple has no say what runs on Symbian or WebOS or Windows Mobile. So if Adobe is capable of coding a full version of flash for mobile devices, why is it that it's not available on ANY platform? If it were so good, wouldn't those other OS vendors want to offer it since you claim it's so critical?
Once again, your name is only half right - you are about as IRrational as it's possible to be.
Pretty much every major web platform developer in the computer industry has a hand in HTML5 at this point. This is a vastly larger pool of talent contributing to it than Unity or Flash has.
That game was created to show the power of hml5 (impressive btw!) but that does not make it a great solution for game developers.
Unity and Flash are simply much better for games. HTML never was ment to be used for games. Hence the name HTML.
They all run smoothly on my kid's Dell Netbook.
Maybe but the poor kids has to suffer Windows as well as anti-virus software, ant-malware and all the rest of the crap that goes with it. How can you do that to the poor kid?
terrible terrible name.
should be called Mocha - bring java back to its roots
How about Nescafé?
They all run smoothly on my kid's Dell Netbook.
Which is one of the points of Steve Jobs' letter.
The REAL reason Apple never worked with Adobe to get flash working great in OSX just as Microsoft did for Windows.
The REAL reason Steve Jobs spreads misinformation and lies about Flash.
And you all gobble it up with open cheeks.
Can you really say that will always be true?
Pretty much every major web platform developer in the computer industry has a hand in HTML5 at this point. This is a vastly larger pool of talent contributing to it than Unity or Flash has.
The problem with this line of thinking, is that you assume that HTML5 will be constantly innovated on, and improving as flash stands still. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I comment as someone who develops in actionscript, css/php/javascript etc for a living. I'll openly admit to liking the flash platform, it's a great platform to develop in, just as the new html5 thing is. I use what makes sense, and it's important not to use a tool gratuitously. I wish more developers would do that. But, I can find just as many horrible css sites as flash, the tool, doesn't make a bad designer/developer...
It seems many, mostly those who don't understand the full storey, try to make this as a html5 vs flash issue. It just isn't. It never was, until Steve Jobs, wants you to believe it is.
HTML5 cannot accomplish everything flash can, far from it. However, what it does do, is finally, bring capabilities to html that should have been long ago, and often we had to leverage flash in tricks and hacks, that we never liked in the first place to accomplish. HTML5 will enable me to do some of the everyday simpler animation, etc. type stuff that I really prefer not to open flash for, and leave the heavy lifting stuff to flash. I've seen some of the html5 animation/game stuff, and really, are we THAT excited that we can do stuff we could do in flash years ago?
Come on. Flash is innovating at an accelerated pace. This whole hooferah has accomplished some real good in my opinion, adobe has indeed been lazy. Now I'm seeing a new player (I've seen in operation) that will run great on mobile phones, major improvements to the platform, and likely will continue to have a fire under their arse to keep improving it. I fully understand why flash is not on the iphone currently.
win win for everyone in my estimation. I'm looking forward to many great new tools, capabilities, in BOTH HTML and flash. When someone starts limiting options, that -isn't- a good thing, for anyone.
As for the flash haters, well, all those annoying ads, etc etc., ain't gonna go away. It isn't the tool that causes them, and should flash actually go down, their will be another tool that will annoy you, even further.
Absolutely, there is a lot of hubris to get past, and surprised I forgot to include that as a reason why they won't do it until it's too late. My point was that between Flash Professional and Dreamweaver they are in the best position to offer a great solution.
I don't now... Flash already exports as quicktime and animated gif so it might not be too hard to imagine HTML5 however Adobe might prefer to make it part of Dreamweaver instead.
I think the main problem with the whole notion that there will soon be a GUI based HTML5 animation tool is dependent on someone being able to figure out how to do it. These frameworks that we have an ever increasing selection of just don't lend themselves to the easy drag and drop timeline event, layers, vectors model that is Flash.
It is going to take a completely different approach to produce a designer friendly tool. Programmers don't really mind having to code and debug hundreds of lines of code to get a desired result but in order for a designer to make money with it, it needs to be a lot more like a rapid application development environment similar to flash.
My point is that Adobe does not have the resources to compete with the entire talent pool that is working on HTML5.
It would be Adobe against the entire W3C, Google, Apple, Webkit, Palm, Microsoft, even Adobe itself.
The problem with this line of thinking, is that you assume that HTML5 will be constantly innovated on, and improving as flash stands still. Nothing could be further from the truth.
This is the whole purpose of Sproutcore
I think the main problem with the whole notion that there will soon be a GUI based HTML5 animation tool is dependent on someone being able to figure out how to do it. These frameworks that we have an ever increasing selection of just don't lend themselves to the easy drag and drop timeline event, layers, vectors model that is Flash.
It is going to take a completely different approach to produce a designer friendly tool. Programmers don't really mind having to code and debug hundreds of lines of code to get a desired result but in order for a designer to make money with it, it needs to be a lot more like a rapid application development environment similar to flash.
I don't see in where I said Flash is standing still. Of course Adobe is continuing to improve it.
My point is that Adobe does not have the resources to compete with the entire talent pool that is working on HTML5.
It would be Adobe against the entire W3C, Google, Apple, Webkit, Palm, Microsoft, even Adobe itself.
ok, there needs to be some sanity here.
First of all, adobe is very much a part of that talent pool working on HTML5. They, and it's customers are all just as excited in the development and the release of HTML5. So it is NOT Adobe against the rest. VERY, far from it.
Second, in the past decade, flash developers have not had any problems with resources to bring their platform to the level it is now. Why is it suddenly so different all of a sudden? Because Steve Jobs says so?
Not likely.
No, the survival of flash, will rest on adobe's ability to innovate, and deliver on a great player and user experience on both the desktop and mobile platforms. I've seen the beta, it's very promising. We'll see how this plays out.
But this html5 vs flash, absolute pap for the masses to swallow truthfully.
ok, there needs to be some sanity here.
First of all, adobe is very much a part of that talent pool working on HTML5. They, and it's customers are all just as excited in the development and the release of HTML5. So it is NOT Adobe against the rest. VERY, far from it.
Are you even reading what I'm writing. In my list of companies that are supporting HTML5, I said "even Adobe itself".
Second, in the past decade, flash developers have not had any problems with resources to bring their platform to the level it is now. Why is it suddenly so different all of a sudden? Because Steve Jobs says so?
Not likely.
Its different because things are changing. Steve Jobs focus is not on Flash itself, Jobs focus is on how everything is changing and Flash does not suit the new environment.
Flash worked perfectly fine as long as most of the computer industry was using desktops with ample system resources and plugged into unlimited power supplies.
The industry is shifting to mobile devices that have extremely limited system resources and extremely limited power supplies. These devices require lightweight and energy efficient software. Flash ain't it.
No, the survival of flash, will rest on adobe's ability to innovate, and deliver on a great player and user experience on both the desktop and mobile platforms. I've seen the beta, it's very promising. We'll see how this plays out.
ok, there needs to be some sanity here.
First of all, Adobe is very much a part of that talent pool working on HTML5. They, and it's customers are all just as excited in the development and the release of HTML5. So it is NOT Adobe against the rest. VERY, far from it. ...
If we are talking about truth, then it needs to be pointed out that you are spinning it fairly hard here.
Yes, it's technically true that Adobe is part of the team working very hard on HTML5, but you fail to mention that they are at the same time, working to push the HTML5 group away from using or developing the "Canvas" element which is the part of HTML5 that would basically replace Flash animations on the web.
"Adobe is working hard on making sure that Flash animations don't get replaced by HTML5's Canvas element." (and thus make the Flash plugin obsolete), would be the closest to a true and accurate statement.
And you all gobble it up with open cheeks.
.. is a hilariously crazy turn of phrase.
Never heard anyone say that before! I'm going to steal it and use it at parties to break people up.
thanks!
Gianduia sounds like a disease. Not good.
What? Just because I think of Giardia whenever I read the name and can't pronounce it doesn't mean it's bad. Another similarity is that Giardia is in brown stuff, too, just... different brown stuff.
I suggest they change the name to Giada. Hubba hubba! Who's with me?