Remember when Microsoft got the blue screen of death in the middle of a demo, and we all woke up the next day to a world in which they had only a 5% market share and Apple had 92%?
i don't think there was a market share fight. flash's market share on mobile is not high enough yet to really fight over...
apple's market share may have been belowe 5%, but both adobe and microsoft have certainly paid attention to it. adobe for the ca. 50% of their CS suite revenue and microsoft... well... somebody had to show them what's next, right?
I think that the big issue is mobile devices, period. Apple, alone, has 100 Million devices out there. Soon, smart mobile devices will outnumber traditional computers... billions.
Say, someone like Apple, has 10% market share of a billion smart devices...
...and can deliver targeted advertising to 100 million highly-qualified buyers...
Remember when Microsoft got the blue screen of death in the middle of a demo, and we all woke up the next day to a world in which they had only a 5% market share and Apple had 92%?
It's like that.
That's makes no sense. For your scenario to be true 92% of PCs sold would have to be Macs, leaving 8% for Dell, HP, Sony, Acer, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I think that the big issue is mobile devices, period. Apple, alone, has 100 Million devices out there. Soon, smart mobile devices will outnumber traditional computers... billions.
Say, someone like Apple, has 10% market share of a billion smart devices...
...and can deliver targeted advertising to 100 million highly-qualified buyers...
Again, I am not going to reread all the posts... Let me just say this: Most of the members you are sparring with are quite open minded, and I try to be. Sometimes, though, it gets frustrating when someone challenges every statement or frequently takes positions opposite to their prior positions (changing sides). It usually looks something like this: I am a total Apple fan, but they really suck on this issue (and everything else too)!
Sometimes it wears thin and people get into "fighting mode"... I know do.
Do you realize that you say that people with 10 of thousands of posts (over many years) to this forum are calling you a liar. And that you, with less than 100 posts in 8 days, are calling them trolls?
Devil's advocates are often mistaken for the Devil, himself. It is a difficult role for a newcomer to carry off... maybe lead in with: "Let me play Devil's advocate and..."
I have been guilty of name calling/insinuation in the heat of a frustrating exchange that appears to be a circular argument that contributes nothing (except to clutter the discussion with cruft).
I think someone mentioned a "Circle Jerk"... at least that could give some satisfaction.
Agree!
Flash may have under-supported the Apple side of things. However, If they can deliver a boffo mobile solution that supports, rather than threatens, the Apple platform...
...SJ could change his mind. Not likely, but it's happened before!
This was in 2004-5, the server-side was ColdFusion MX (Compiled Java ByteCode). Actually, I think I did use Flash Components-- they were the latest, greatest thing!
BTW, Mike Chambers (now with Adobe) was a fellow independent ColdFusion developer and was quite reasonable and helpful... a "good guy".
I normally keep 1 browser window open with tabs for all the forum sites I frequent (below). Most of these are loaded with Flash ads and/or videos. I have a few, single tab sites for stocks Apple iPhone SDK, etc. As I find a site or tab that interests me I will right-click and open that topic in a separate window:
I review, but don't participate in the roughly drafted site (second from last)-- it's way too pro-Apple biased for me (The author of that blog is also the author of this thread.)
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I think the one with "tens of thousands of posts" should man up and show me where I lied. This is my introduction here, I've tried to be honest with my opinion, what I know, and what I -don't- know. Some here seem to have quite the crystal ball it seems!
I'm sorry about the circlejerk comment, but after being told what I said when I never did, asked where I did, never got a resonse (BIG SURPRISE EH!!) it got to be absolutely ridiculous, I don't care how open minded they apparently were...
and yeah, in 2004-5, there were some pretty horrible components in flash. If you thought flash player was bad on mac... it was well known never to go near those unless you absolutely -had- to. Always a way to write your own to be a tenth the size. Never worked in coldfusion though.
Yet somehow, when apple had less than 5%, that was something to really pay attention to.
Apple has a small percentages of people who are willing to spend over $1000 on a computer, and disproportionately spend a lot of money on expensive software suites.
Quote:
Perhaps, and I'll go out on a limb that I'm sure someone will happily shoot down with all sorts of colorful names, a higher percentage than iphone's marketshare of 16%.
You are looking in the wrong place. The iPhone does not dominate sales per unit. But it does overwhelmingly dominate web usage and app sales.
Quote:
I might remind people that html5, has quite a ways to go yet. Years, in fact...
In the past three years HTML5 has gone from barely recognized to dominating the mobile web. Its already being used. What more years are you talking about?
Technically, yes, but that brings up the next issue in this long list of Flash related issues. As you stated earlier, it "add a checkbox to their specsheets."
I suspect Adobe could have had a stable version of Flash 10.x running on Android a year or two ago, the problem is that is would be as pointless as Flash on the N900. I suspect the instability is from Adobe trying desperately to reduce the resource unfriendly nature of Flash so that it's not technically working on the Nexus One but working well. If they don't offer that then it will just knock them down even further.
After they deal with that issue, then there is the issue of battery life, which they can't solve without being more efficient than the HTML5 video tag option in mobile browsers. The newest lie is that Flash doesn't adversely affect battery life. Let's think about that for a moment. For it not affect battery life it would mean playing HTML5 video would use the same or more CPU cycles than playing that same video in Flash. from my testing with YouTube on the desktop, my CPU is pushed harder (using more power) which generates heat which in turn pushes my fans (using more power). A mobile won't have the fan power issue, but it will have the additional CPU issue even when H.264 is being decoded by the GPU.
adobe certainly has their work cut out for them. the chances of them fixing flash for the mac are definitely slimming by being pushed down in the list of priorities (as if it hasn't always been just above photoshop for linux).
thankfully click-to-flash makes flash infested sites much more tolerable in safari, and i don't have to go into flash-rage as often as i used to...
as a mac user i'm definitely over flash and i have argued against its use for frivolous eye candy to clients for years.
I think that the big issue is mobile devices, period. Apple, alone, has 100 Million devices out there. Soon, smart mobile devices will outnumber traditional computers... billions.
Say, someone like Apple, has 10% market share of a billion smart devices...
...and can deliver targeted advertising to 100 million highly-qualified buyers...
That's what it's all about!
.
I don't disagree. Though I think many are calling it a day on how things are and are pretty sure of it.
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming. I can't predict what marketshare will be like, but as I said, this whole thing has only just barely, begun.
And back to this html5 vs flash thing, well, while I still don't believe it's a vs thing at all, let's remember, html5 is far from official by any means as well. It has quite a ways to go itself despite the chest thumping, So everyone yelling that flash isn't out of the gate seem to be forgetting this little tidbit as well.
I've heard the term flash killer for well over ten years...
adobe certainly has their work cut out for them. the chances of them fixing flash for the mac are definitely slimming by being pushed down in the list of priorities (as if it hasn't always been just above photoshop for linux).
thankfully click-to-flash makes flash infested sites much more tolerable in safari, and i don't have to go into flash-rage as often as i used to...
as a mac user i'm definitely over flash and i have argued against its use for frivolous eye candy to clients for years.
I think the one with "tens of thousands of posts" should man up and show me where I lied. This is my introduction here, I've tried to be honest with my opinion, what I know, and what I -don't- know. Some here seem to have quite the crystal ball it seems!
I'm sorry about the circlejerk comment, but after being told what I said when I never did, asked where I did, never got a resonse (BIG SURPRISE EH!!) it got to be absolutely ridiculous, I don't care how open minded they apparently were...
and yeah, in 2004-5, there were some pretty horrible components in flash. If you thought flash player was bad on mac... it was well known never to go near those unless you absolutely -had- to. Always a way to write your own to be a tenth the size. Never worked in coldfusion though.
well. welcome to apple insider.
i would suggest that perhaps, maybe, if it's not too much to ask, that you try to cut down on your usage of 'fanboi', 'his steveness', and other derogatory and inflammatory language, and you'll find that (for the most part) you can have reasonable discussions here... that said - once we reach page 5 on any discussions, the tone has likely deteriorated. better get used to it!
i would suggest that perhaps, maybe, if it's not too much to ask, that you try to cut down on your usage of 'fanboi', 'his steveness', and other derogatory and inflammatory language, and you'll find that (for the most part) you can have reasonable discussions here... that said - once we reach page 5 on any discussions, the tone has likely deteriorated. better get used to it!
Try out the latest. The latest one also includes hardware acceleration for a few nVidia video cards.
yes. i'm sorry to say i'm not letting any adobe betas on my computers any more. been there. done that. nVida support doesn't help me, my macbook pro is 3 years old. click-to-flash automatically requests h.264 from youtube. that's good enough for me. for now.
Apple has a small percentages of people who are willing to spend over $1000 on a computer, and disproportionately spend a lot of money on expensive software suites.
You are looking in the wrong place. The iPhone does not dominate sales per unit. But it does overwhelmingly dominate web usage and app sales.
To add to the list of impressive and growing feats...
? Apple has over 90% of buyers willing to spend ≥$1000 on a PC.
? Apple reportedly makes the most profit of all PC manufacturers.
? Apple makes the most profit of all handset vendors.
Quote:
In the past three years HTML5 has gone from barely recognized to dominating the mobile web. Its already being used. What more years are you talking about?
Didn't HP just buy a company that has an entire mobile OS based on HTML5 and the WebKit browser engine Apple funds? It seems to me that HTML5 is alive and well in 2010 on mobiles. Can't say the same for Flash.
Google is even pushing it over the use of Gears. "We are excited that much of the technology in Gears, including offline support and geolocation APIs, are being incorporated into the HTML5 spec as an open standard supported across browsers, and see that as the logical next step for developers looking to include these features in their websites," wrote a Google spokesman.
Now MS is supporting the HTML5 video tag in the browser. Flash for video will only be decreasing marketshare from here on out.
yes. i'm sorry to say i'm not letting any adobe betas on my computers any more. been there. done that. nVida support doesn't help me, my macbook pro is 3 years old. click-to-flash automatically requests h.264 from youtube. that's good enough for me. for now.
Flash 10.1 Beta 3 is a huge improvement over Beta 2, but when you compare Beta 3 in YouTube to HTML5 in YouTube you see that they aren't even close to matching the efficiency of direct browser video playback of HTML5.
The only thing Flash still has going for it is the lack of simple fullscreen access. Jillion has a "solution" but it requires a newer WebKit nightly and holding down a key while clicking a virtual button. That is less than ideal.
and yeah, in 2004-5, there were some pretty horrible components in flash. If you thought flash player was bad on mac... it was well known never to go near those unless you absolutely -had- to. Always a way to write your own to be a tenth the size. Never worked in coldfusion though.
Oh, you're bringing back bad memories.... CF was great-- easier to write than PHP and faster. The Flash thing was an abortion: a CF boot took about 15 seconds, then it fired up Flex and Flash (another 2 minutes, or so). Then, all the server-client Flash data exchange was XML with about 500% overhead...
I ended up doing the job with a hidden frame with a CF page request. CF sent a delimited list of 61 variables... a simple client-side JavaScript split (one instruction) put these into an array. It was a piece of cake to refresh the 61 table entries in the visible frame (took less than 1 second, client-side), And Flash couldn't do it in 1 minute... but the Flash code was a lot bigger & used a lot more bandwidth!
I don't disagree. Though I think many are calling it a day on how things are and are pretty sure of it.
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming. I can't predict what marketshare will be like, but as I said, this whole thing has only just barely, begun.
And back to this html5 vs flash thing, well, while I still don't believe it's a vs thing at all, let's remember, html5 is far from official by any means as well. It has quite a ways to go itself despite the chest thumping, So everyone yelling that flash isn't out of the gate seem to be forgetting this little tidbit as well.
I've heard the term flash killer for well over ten years...
To your last point, If Adobe were smart they would work both sides of the street... IF anyone delivers an HTML solution that is a Flash-killer-- it should be Adobe!
Oh, you're bringing back bad memories.... CF was great-- easier to write than PHP and faster. The Flash thing was an abortion: a CF boot took about 15 seconds, then it fired up Flex and Flash (another 2 minutes, or so). Then, all the server-client Flash data exchange was XML with about 500% overhead...
I ended up doing the job with a hidden frame with a CF page request. CF sent a delimited list of 61 variables... a simple client-side JavaScript split (one instruction) put these into an array. It was a piece of cake to refresh the 61 table entries in the visible frame (took less than 1 second, client-side), And Flash couldn't do it in 1 minute... but the Flash code was a lot bigger & used a lot more bandwidth!
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hmm. a delimited list of 61 variables seems not a big thing at all really. Because php only really can do name/value pairs (or do the xml flip dance)into flash I tend to do long strings of delimited strings right into flash from the mySQL queries in php, and just write a simple quick parser to create arrays right inside flash. I've done it on some pretty high traffic sites. I tend to go for the easiest, simpler ways of doing things, they tend to result in better, more efficient code.
Flash's components particularly the first bunch were absolutely horrendous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
To your last point, If Adobe were smart they would work both sides of the street... IF anyone delivers an HTML solution that is a Flash-killer-- it should be Adobe!
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They're totally onboard as far I know. Truthfully, absolutely every web developer I know is too, html4 is dead! All these big announcements "We see html5 as the way of the future!", really, is kinda funny really. Of course html5 is future, did they think we'd keep using html4??
html5 asaik, isn't reaching candidate status until 2012. Yet many are calling this whole thing as all wrapped up and done as of today.
Flash 10.1 Beta 3 is a huge improvement over Beta 2, but when you compare Beta 3 in YouTube to HTML5 in YouTube you see that they aren't even close to matching the efficiency of direct browser video playback of HTML5.
The only thing Flash still has going for it is the lack of simple fullscreen access. Jillion has a "solution" but it requires a newer WebKit nightly and holding down a key while clicking a virtual button. That is less than ideal.
Yeah, after using Click2Flash, I am not that interested in introducing Flash betas (or WebKit nightlies) into my normal operating environment... let others be the pioneers & get the arrows.
However, it is a PITA that these old eyes cannot easily get a Full screen h.264 720p playback through HTML5...
i would suggest that perhaps, maybe, if it's not too much to ask, that you try to cut down on your usage of 'fanboi', 'his steveness', and other derogatory and inflammatory language, and you'll find that (for the most part) you can have reasonable discussions here... that said - once we reach page 5 on any discussions, the tone has likely deteriorated. better get used to it!
I don't disagree. Though I think many are calling it a day on how things are and are pretty sure of it.
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming. I can't predict what marketshare will be like, but as I said, this whole thing has only just barely, begun.
And back to this html5 vs flash thing, well, while I still don't believe it's a vs thing at all, let's remember, html5 is far from official by any means as well. It has quite a ways to go itself despite the chest thumping, So everyone yelling that flash isn't out of the gate seem to be forgetting this little tidbit as well.
I've heard the term flash killer for well over ten years...
Here, I disagree! I think we have, all-of-a-sudden, reached a point where everyone wakes up and says: "Of course! That's the way it it is supposed to be".
The battle of the techies is over... millions of users, who could care less "how"... will buy "what".
The guy who buys a minivan and demurs on the $1500 entertainment package to buy 2 iPads that do more (and pockets $500). This is happening today!
Grandma/Grandpa, who forget more than we'll ever know, now have something that does what they want it to do-- their way! This is happening today!
The salesman of anything, who really understands his products and customers... but this computer thingie comes between them and muddies the water.... Now, he can "strut his stuff" and the customer can enjoy the show. This is happening today!
The battle never was about Flash, Silverlight, OS X, Windows, CP/M, CoBOL...
It's enabling the end user, stupid! (not you in particular, but all of us).
Comments
What part of Beta don't you understand?
Remember when Microsoft got the blue screen of death in the middle of a demo, and we all woke up the next day to a world in which they had only a 5% market share and Apple had 92%?
It's like that.
i don't think there was a market share fight. flash's market share on mobile is not high enough yet to really fight over...
apple's market share may have been belowe 5%, but both adobe and microsoft have certainly paid attention to it. adobe for the ca. 50% of their CS suite revenue and microsoft... well... somebody had to show them what's next, right?
I think that the big issue is mobile devices, period. Apple, alone, has 100 Million devices out there. Soon, smart mobile devices will outnumber traditional computers... billions.
Say, someone like Apple, has 10% market share of a billion smart devices...
...and can deliver targeted advertising to 100 million highly-qualified buyers...
That's what it's all about!
.
Remember when Microsoft got the blue screen of death in the middle of a demo, and we all woke up the next day to a world in which they had only a 5% market share and Apple had 92%?
It's like that.
That's makes no sense. For your scenario to be true 92% of PCs sold would have to be Macs, leaving 8% for Dell, HP, Sony, Acer, etc.
I think that the big issue is mobile devices, period. Apple, alone, has 100 Million devices out there. Soon, smart mobile devices will outnumber traditional computers... billions.
Say, someone like Apple, has 10% market share of a billion smart devices...
...and can deliver targeted advertising to 100 million highly-qualified buyers...
That's what it's all about!
QFT ☝
Again, I am not going to reread all the posts... Let me just say this: Most of the members you are sparring with are quite open minded, and I try to be. Sometimes, though, it gets frustrating when someone challenges every statement or frequently takes positions opposite to their prior positions (changing sides). It usually looks something like this: I am a total Apple fan, but they really suck on this issue (and everything else too)!
Sometimes it wears thin and people get into "fighting mode"... I know do.
Do you realize that you say that people with 10 of thousands of posts (over many years) to this forum are calling you a liar. And that you, with less than 100 posts in 8 days, are calling them trolls?
Devil's advocates are often mistaken for the Devil, himself. It is a difficult role for a newcomer to carry off... maybe lead in with: "Let me play Devil's advocate and..."
I have been guilty of name calling/insinuation in the heat of a frustrating exchange that appears to be a circular argument that contributes nothing (except to clutter the discussion with cruft).
I think someone mentioned a "Circle Jerk"... at least that could give some satisfaction.
Agree!
Flash may have under-supported the Apple side of things. However, If they can deliver a boffo mobile solution that supports, rather than threatens, the Apple platform...
...SJ could change his mind. Not likely, but it's happened before!
This was in 2004-5, the server-side was ColdFusion MX (Compiled Java ByteCode). Actually, I think I did use Flash Components-- they were the latest, greatest thing!
BTW, Mike Chambers (now with Adobe) was a fellow independent ColdFusion developer and was quite reasonable and helpful... a "good guy".
I normally keep 1 browser window open with tabs for all the forum sites I frequent (below). Most of these are loaded with Flash ads and/or videos. I have a few, single tab sites for stocks Apple iPhone SDK, etc. As I find a site or tab that interests me I will right-click and open that topic in a separate window:
Here are the forum tabs:
http://quotes.nasdaq.com/Quote.dll?s...x=26&multi.y=4
http://daringfireball.net/
http://www.patentlyapple.com/
http://www.macrumors.com/
http://www.macbytes.com/
http://www.appleinsider.com/
http://www.macworld.com/
http://www.macsimumnews.com/
http://www.macnn.com/
http://macdevcenter.com/
http://apple.slashdot.org/
http://www.macsurfer.com/
http://arstechnica.com/index.ars
http://www.eweek.com/
http://roughlydrafted.com/
http://www.tuaw.com/
I review, but don't participate in the roughly drafted site (second from last)-- it's way too pro-Apple biased for me (The author of that blog is also the author of this thread.)
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I think the one with "tens of thousands of posts" should man up and show me where I lied. This is my introduction here, I've tried to be honest with my opinion, what I know, and what I -don't- know. Some here seem to have quite the crystal ball it seems!
I'm sorry about the circlejerk comment, but after being told what I said when I never did, asked where I did, never got a resonse (BIG SURPRISE EH!!) it got to be absolutely ridiculous, I don't care how open minded they apparently were...
and yeah, in 2004-5, there were some pretty horrible components in flash. If you thought flash player was bad on mac... it was well known never to go near those unless you absolutely -had- to. Always a way to write your own to be a tenth the size. Never worked in coldfusion though.
Yet somehow, when apple had less than 5%, that was something to really pay attention to.
Apple has a small percentages of people who are willing to spend over $1000 on a computer, and disproportionately spend a lot of money on expensive software suites.
Perhaps, and I'll go out on a limb that I'm sure someone will happily shoot down with all sorts of colorful names, a higher percentage than iphone's marketshare of 16%.
You are looking in the wrong place. The iPhone does not dominate sales per unit. But it does overwhelmingly dominate web usage and app sales.
I might remind people that html5, has quite a ways to go yet. Years, in fact...
In the past three years HTML5 has gone from barely recognized to dominating the mobile web. Its already being used. What more years are you talking about?
Technically, yes, but that brings up the next issue in this long list of Flash related issues. As you stated earlier, it "add a checkbox to their specsheets."
I suspect Adobe could have had a stable version of Flash 10.x running on Android a year or two ago, the problem is that is would be as pointless as Flash on the N900. I suspect the instability is from Adobe trying desperately to reduce the resource unfriendly nature of Flash so that it's not technically working on the Nexus One but working well. If they don't offer that then it will just knock them down even further.
After they deal with that issue, then there is the issue of battery life, which they can't solve without being more efficient than the HTML5 video tag option in mobile browsers. The newest lie is that Flash doesn't adversely affect battery life. Let's think about that for a moment. For it not affect battery life it would mean playing HTML5 video would use the same or more CPU cycles than playing that same video in Flash. from my testing with YouTube on the desktop, my CPU is pushed harder (using more power) which generates heat which in turn pushes my fans (using more power). A mobile won't have the fan power issue, but it will have the additional CPU issue even when H.264 is being decoded by the GPU.
adobe certainly has their work cut out for them. the chances of them fixing flash for the mac are definitely slimming by being pushed down in the list of priorities (as if it hasn't always been just above photoshop for linux).
thankfully click-to-flash makes flash infested sites much more tolerable in safari, and i don't have to go into flash-rage as often as i used to...
as a mac user i'm definitely over flash and i have argued against its use for frivolous eye candy to clients for years.
I think that the big issue is mobile devices, period. Apple, alone, has 100 Million devices out there. Soon, smart mobile devices will outnumber traditional computers... billions.
Say, someone like Apple, has 10% market share of a billion smart devices...
...and can deliver targeted advertising to 100 million highly-qualified buyers...
That's what it's all about!
.
I don't disagree. Though I think many are calling it a day on how things are and are pretty sure of it.
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming. I can't predict what marketshare will be like, but as I said, this whole thing has only just barely, begun.
And back to this html5 vs flash thing, well, while I still don't believe it's a vs thing at all, let's remember, html5 is far from official by any means as well. It has quite a ways to go itself despite the chest thumping, So everyone yelling that flash isn't out of the gate seem to be forgetting this little tidbit as well.
I've heard the term flash killer for well over ten years...
adobe certainly has their work cut out for them. the chances of them fixing flash for the mac are definitely slimming by being pushed down in the list of priorities (as if it hasn't always been just above photoshop for linux).
thankfully click-to-flash makes flash infested sites much more tolerable in safari, and i don't have to go into flash-rage as often as i used to...
as a mac user i'm definitely over flash and i have argued against its use for frivolous eye candy to clients for years.
if you're wondering about 'fixing flash for mac', you can keep more up to date on it here. http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
Try out the latest. The latest one also includes hardware acceleration for a few nVidia video cards.
I think the one with "tens of thousands of posts" should man up and show me where I lied. This is my introduction here, I've tried to be honest with my opinion, what I know, and what I -don't- know. Some here seem to have quite the crystal ball it seems!
I'm sorry about the circlejerk comment, but after being told what I said when I never did, asked where I did, never got a resonse (BIG SURPRISE EH!!) it got to be absolutely ridiculous, I don't care how open minded they apparently were...
and yeah, in 2004-5, there were some pretty horrible components in flash. If you thought flash player was bad on mac... it was well known never to go near those unless you absolutely -had- to. Always a way to write your own to be a tenth the size. Never worked in coldfusion though.
well. welcome to apple insider.
i would suggest that perhaps, maybe, if it's not too much to ask, that you try to cut down on your usage of 'fanboi', 'his steveness', and other derogatory and inflammatory language, and you'll find that (for the most part) you can have reasonable discussions here... that said - once we reach page 5 on any discussions, the tone has likely deteriorated. better get used to it!
well. welcome to apple insider.
i would suggest that perhaps, maybe, if it's not too much to ask, that you try to cut down on your usage of 'fanboi', 'his steveness', and other derogatory and inflammatory language, and you'll find that (for the most part) you can have reasonable discussions here... that said - once we reach page 5 on any discussions, the tone has likely deteriorated. better get used to it!
i'll keep that under advisement.
Sorry, when attacked, I have fangs too.
if you're wondering about 'fixing flash for mac', you can keep more up to date on it here. http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
Try out the latest. The latest one also includes hardware acceleration for a few nVidia video cards.
yes. i'm sorry to say i'm not letting any adobe betas on my computers any more. been there. done that. nVida support doesn't help me, my macbook pro is 3 years old. click-to-flash automatically requests h.264 from youtube. that's good enough for me. for now.
Apple has a small percentages of people who are willing to spend over $1000 on a computer, and disproportionately spend a lot of money on expensive software suites.
You are looking in the wrong place. The iPhone does not dominate sales per unit. But it does overwhelmingly dominate web usage and app sales.
To add to the list of impressive and growing feats...
? Apple has over 90% of buyers willing to spend ≥$1000 on a PC.
? Apple reportedly makes the most profit of all PC manufacturers.
? Apple makes the most profit of all handset vendors.
In the past three years HTML5 has gone from barely recognized to dominating the mobile web. Its already being used. What more years are you talking about?
Didn't HP just buy a company that has an entire mobile OS based on HTML5 and the WebKit browser engine Apple funds? It seems to me that HTML5 is alive and well in 2010 on mobiles. Can't say the same for Flash.
Google is even pushing it over the use of Gears. "We are excited that much of the technology in Gears, including offline support and geolocation APIs, are being incorporated into the HTML5 spec as an open standard supported across browsers, and see that as the logical next step for developers looking to include these features in their websites," wrote a Google spokesman.
Now MS is supporting the HTML5 video tag in the browser. Flash for video will only be decreasing marketshare from here on out.
macs are still under 10%, iphones are still only at 16%.
rim, google, nokia, win, combined, still whacks iphone's share by a country mile.
Disclaimer:
Now let's not get excited. I'm merely stating some balance here. I like my macs and have 2 iphones.
yes. i'm sorry to say i'm not letting any adobe betas on my computers any more. been there. done that. nVida support doesn't help me, my macbook pro is 3 years old. click-to-flash automatically requests h.264 from youtube. that's good enough for me. for now.
Flash 10.1 Beta 3 is a huge improvement over Beta 2, but when you compare Beta 3 in YouTube to HTML5 in YouTube you see that they aren't even close to matching the efficiency of direct browser video playback of HTML5.
The only thing Flash still has going for it is the lack of simple fullscreen access. Jillion has a "solution" but it requires a newer WebKit nightly and holding down a key while clicking a virtual button. That is less than ideal.
and yeah, in 2004-5, there were some pretty horrible components in flash. If you thought flash player was bad on mac... it was well known never to go near those unless you absolutely -had- to. Always a way to write your own to be a tenth the size. Never worked in coldfusion though.
Oh, you're bringing back bad memories.... CF was great-- easier to write than PHP and faster. The Flash thing was an abortion: a CF boot took about 15 seconds, then it fired up Flex and Flash (another 2 minutes, or so). Then, all the server-client Flash data exchange was XML with about 500% overhead...
I ended up doing the job with a hidden frame with a CF page request. CF sent a delimited list of 61 variables... a simple client-side JavaScript split (one instruction) put these into an array. It was a piece of cake to refresh the 61 table entries in the visible frame (took less than 1 second, client-side), And Flash couldn't do it in 1 minute... but the Flash code was a lot bigger & used a lot more bandwidth!
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I don't disagree. Though I think many are calling it a day on how things are and are pretty sure of it.
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming. I can't predict what marketshare will be like, but as I said, this whole thing has only just barely, begun.
And back to this html5 vs flash thing, well, while I still don't believe it's a vs thing at all, let's remember, html5 is far from official by any means as well. It has quite a ways to go itself despite the chest thumping, So everyone yelling that flash isn't out of the gate seem to be forgetting this little tidbit as well.
I've heard the term flash killer for well over ten years...
To your last point, If Adobe were smart they would work both sides of the street... IF anyone delivers an HTML solution that is a Flash-killer-- it should be Adobe!
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Oh, you're bringing back bad memories.... CF was great-- easier to write than PHP and faster. The Flash thing was an abortion: a CF boot took about 15 seconds, then it fired up Flex and Flash (another 2 minutes, or so). Then, all the server-client Flash data exchange was XML with about 500% overhead...
I ended up doing the job with a hidden frame with a CF page request. CF sent a delimited list of 61 variables... a simple client-side JavaScript split (one instruction) put these into an array. It was a piece of cake to refresh the 61 table entries in the visible frame (took less than 1 second, client-side), And Flash couldn't do it in 1 minute... but the Flash code was a lot bigger & used a lot more bandwidth!
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hmm. a delimited list of 61 variables seems not a big thing at all really. Because php only really can do name/value pairs (or do the xml flip dance)into flash I tend to do long strings of delimited strings right into flash from the mySQL queries in php, and just write a simple quick parser to create arrays right inside flash. I've done it on some pretty high traffic sites. I tend to go for the easiest, simpler ways of doing things, they tend to result in better, more efficient code.
Flash's components particularly the first bunch were absolutely horrendous.
To your last point, If Adobe were smart they would work both sides of the street... IF anyone delivers an HTML solution that is a Flash-killer-- it should be Adobe!
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They're totally onboard as far I know. Truthfully, absolutely every web developer I know is too, html4 is dead! All these big announcements "We see html5 as the way of the future!", really, is kinda funny really. Of course html5 is future, did they think we'd keep using html4??
html5 asaik, isn't reaching candidate status until 2012. Yet many are calling this whole thing as all wrapped up and done as of today.
Flash 10.1 Beta 3 is a huge improvement over Beta 2, but when you compare Beta 3 in YouTube to HTML5 in YouTube you see that they aren't even close to matching the efficiency of direct browser video playback of HTML5.
The only thing Flash still has going for it is the lack of simple fullscreen access. Jillion has a "solution" but it requires a newer WebKit nightly and holding down a key while clicking a virtual button. That is less than ideal.
Yeah, after using Click2Flash, I am not that interested in introducing Flash betas (or WebKit nightlies) into my normal operating environment... let others be the pioneers & get the arrows.
However, it is a PITA that these old eyes cannot easily get a Full screen h.264 720p playback through HTML5...
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well. welcome to apple insider.
i would suggest that perhaps, maybe, if it's not too much to ask, that you try to cut down on your usage of 'fanboi', 'his steveness', and other derogatory and inflammatory language, and you'll find that (for the most part) you can have reasonable discussions here... that said - once we reach page 5 on any discussions, the tone has likely deteriorated. better get used to it!
Winner... Best Post In this Thread!
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I don't disagree. Though I think many are calling it a day on how things are and are pretty sure of it.
I say, let's talk in 3 years. That's a loong time in this industry, and if anyone think the other several companies with really REALLY deep pockets will continue to let apple rule the roost, they're dreaming. I can't predict what marketshare will be like, but as I said, this whole thing has only just barely, begun.
And back to this html5 vs flash thing, well, while I still don't believe it's a vs thing at all, let's remember, html5 is far from official by any means as well. It has quite a ways to go itself despite the chest thumping, So everyone yelling that flash isn't out of the gate seem to be forgetting this little tidbit as well.
I've heard the term flash killer for well over ten years...
Here, I disagree! I think we have, all-of-a-sudden, reached a point where everyone wakes up and says: "Of course! That's the way it it is supposed to be".
The battle of the techies is over... millions of users, who could care less "how"... will buy "what".
The guy who buys a minivan and demurs on the $1500 entertainment package to buy 2 iPads that do more (and pockets $500). This is happening today!
Grandma/Grandpa, who forget more than we'll ever know, now have something that does what they want it to do-- their way! This is happening today!
The salesman of anything, who really understands his products and customers... but this computer thingie comes between them and muddies the water.... Now, he can "strut his stuff" and the customer can enjoy the show. This is happening today!
The battle never was about Flash, Silverlight, OS X, Windows, CP/M, CoBOL...
It's enabling the end user, stupid! (not you in particular, but all of us).
If you want to see what enablement is all about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50L44hEtVos
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