As I wrote yesterday, AT&T reported 2.7m activations this past quarter. Some small number above that may have bought iPhones and activated on T-mobile or outside the US.
According to IDC, HTC sold 2.6m smartphones and Motorola sold 2.3m smartphones this past quarter worldwide. (Canalys reportes 2.8m for HTC and 2.6m for Motorola, so you can see that it's not that accurate.) Samsung also sold some Android phones in the US (but its not in the top 5 worldwide so its total is less than 2.3m smartphones). There are other Android-based phones, but I think most of those sales are outside US.
So roughly over 5m smartphone sales worldwide between HTC, Motorola and Samsung. Most of Motorola's smartphone sales are probably in the US. Based on 3Q2009 data, a good portion of HTC's sales were WinMo-based; I'm sure less are WinMo-based now, but don't have any data for 1Q. The majority of HTC's sales are probably outside of US, but again, no specific data.
Conclusion: The numbers indicate that Android-based smartphone sales are in the same ballpark as iPhone for Q1.
If you are going to come up with a "conclusion" at least make an effort to use numbers that are meaningful. You are tossing in thinks, extrapolations, and other fluff without any detail. And you additionally only select AT&T activations and some small percentage of that as smartphones. Is this meant to say this is the percentage that represents iPhone? Since you measure Android on a worldwide basis why would you use only AT&T as the iPhone basis?
what? could you be any more blindly biased? same holds true for most apple stats but nobody complains about those. android can be good without iphone being bad.
Actually, any Statistician will tell you that any statistical analysis is just a bunch of lies, any statistician worth his degree can make a bunch of numbers tell a story they want to tell and the fact this analysis is base on some sort of survey makes is far worse. And no, I do not believe apples numbers either, just like they are claiming to be the 3 largest cell phone maker, well they dices that data down to smart phones only, but now people think they are number 3 in the world for all cell phones. People forget the assumption and caveats behind the analysis and draw conclusion which are not factual.
No way Apple even cares. They already control more than 2% of overall mobile phone market worldwide and the share is growing. They have done it in 3 years by releasing essentially only one smartphone model (yes i know you will point out 1gen, 2g,3g,3gs....now look them up on google images and than compare specs, same phone). More to this iPhone is a pricy piece of tech, the lowest you are looking at is around $600 for the low end model worldwide.
Droid? So all these manufactures managed to sell more in ever growing market against only one phone. Good for them. Not bad for iPhone either.
"This is a very limited report on 150,000 U.S. consumers responding to an online survey and does not account for the more than 85 million iPhone and iPod touch customers worldwide,"
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
Interesting catch...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
All is fair in love and war.
Eh, you have a point there. I was thinking in broad terms or moral ethics. They didn't sacrifice a million kids or stole from the poor or used oil derived from currently endangers species in the delivery trucks to initiate the BOGO deal. That we know of...
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
The report says Android outsells iPhone. Android is an OS. iPhone is a smartphone. iPhone OS on the other hand is used on iPod Touch and iPad.
is Apple all worried about market share? I thought they didn't care about that, just making the one best product possible, at a great profit. If they're worried about market share, perhaps a few new phone models, some with a replaceable battery.
You guys do realize this is APPLEinsider.com. Go troll your own Android sites instead of coming here just to pick a fight. Apple is right though. i don't care if they're in 20th place. I'll still buy the next iPhone.
BOGO is completely fair game. I'm still surprised Apple/AT&T hasn't done one to even further increase its marketshare and profits.
I don't get why people say this is a bad thing. As a consumer, I'd be happy if people cut me a deal (which is what BOGO is....it's not free). I find it odd that people on here think its a good thing that Apple doesn't cut prices or offers special deals to gain marketshare. Good for shareholders. Not so good for me as a consumer (of Apple products). And where were all these people when the iPhone was first launched for $600 and the price dropped. Were they all upset that Apple 'discounted' the iPhone?
Good on Verizon and their partner OEMs for competing. People act like that's a bad thing for us consumers. If Apple and AT&T were smart, they would counter by offering the last gen iPhone for free on contract and convert every high school kid onto the iPhone platform for life....and who knows, we might see that yet! It's like smoking. The phone companies have to get 'em young!
walmart doesn't provide their employees with adequate healthcare and sends them to get additional care through their respective states, thereby depleting the funds that can go to those less fortunate than them.
(clipped)
Should retailers really should be in the business of providing healthcare to anyone anyhow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoebetech
all companies are unethical to a degree. if apple is ethical, why is it doing business in China?
There's nothing inherently unethical about doing business in China whatsoever. In fact doing business there enriches 1) the Chinese workers and companies doing the manufacturing; 2) Apple as the producer and 3) us as consumers by lowering the cost of goods.
Actually, any Statistician will tell you that any statistical analysis is just a bunch of lies, any statistician worth his degree can make a bunch of numbers tell a story they want to tell and the fact this analysis is base on some sort of survey makes is far worse. And no, I do not believe apples numbers either, just like they are claiming to be the 3 largest cell phone maker, well they dices that data down to smart phones only, but now people think they are number 3 in the world for all cell phones. People forget the assumption and caveats behind the analysis and draw conclusion which are not factual.
One question, well two questions actually. Are you a professional statistician? Do you have any formal training in statistics beyond a typical intro to math or psych stats taught at the undergraduate level?
what? could you be any more blindly biased? same holds true for most apple stats but nobody complains about those. android can be good without iphone being bad.
"The whole of geek debating is based on the Highlander principle."
--Joce640k
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGrumble
That I did not know. I wonder if any statisticians would care to comment on whether that can be considered to be a representative sample? Apart from the possibility that survey participants might be somewhat self-selecting or otherwise a biased set, it actually sounds like a reasonable way to extrapolate those figures.
First, I'm not a statistician, but I know enough to know that most people don't even have the first clue about basic statistics work. I don't know very well how NPD gathers its information, I think the worst of it could be self-selection, the number of respondents itself isn't a problem at all. National political polls often work with a few thousand respondents, but they try to randomize those polled sufficiently to best represent the greater population. Most of the time, the people that complain that it's only a four digit number of people polled out of a population of nine digits, don't really understand the process or the math behind it. A sample of 5000 can represent half a billion people to a good degree of confidence, but there is a process that needs to be followed.
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
It's apples and oranges.
If you want to compare device sales, you compare each individual smart phone model to the iPhone - and the iPhone wins handily. No single Android phone comes close to iPhone sales.
OTOH, if you want to compare OS sales (which is implied by the fact that they're lumping all Android models together), then you need to include the iPod Touch and iPad, as well.
Wow - the iPhone diehards, like Apple, seem pretty irritated by the source article. I'd go see a mental health professional.
Google's coming
What I think is funny is that almost everyone posting on this thread is a troll or someone who doesn't normally post a lot. There's a reason for that.
All you anti-Apple types are slapping yourselves on the back here, but it's not even at issue that iPhone is outselling Android by a huge margin world-wide. You can criticise this thing or that thing about Apple's statement and the fact that they include iPods in their 85 million figure, but the bottom line is this part (which doesn't include iPods BTW):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple
... IDC figures show that iPhone has 16.1 percent of the smartphone market and growing, far outselling Android on a worldwide basis... iPhone sales (grew) by 131 percent (last quarter) ... we see no signs of the competition catching up anytime soon."
Those are unassailable facts. iPhone is swamping Android in terms of sales and interest from both developers and customers world-wide.
The original online survey merely indicates that in the USA *only* Android *might* be doing slightly better in terms of unit sales (even as it makes relatively no money for those selling it or selling applications for it).
Also, you have not clue about marketing, Apple is not interested in gaining market share over devaluing the product. This is marketing 101, Apple will never allow the product to be given away, either you pay the price of you do own the product. Why give away a product when people are whiling to pay for.
If Apple does not care about market share and volumen, then why did they drop the price of the original iPhone by hundreds of dollars?
The report says Android outsells iPhone. Android is an OS. iPhone is a smartphone. iPhone OS on the other hand is used on iPod Touch and iPad.
There aren't a lot of non-phone Android devices out there, so exactly what would such a distinction prove?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
It's apples and oranges.
If you want to compare device sales, you compare each individual smart phone model to the iPhone - and the iPhone wins handily. No single Android phone comes close to iPhone sales.
Model-for-model, brand-for-brand, iPhone *would* win over the Android, no question about that. But keep in mind that Apple doesn't sell just one iPhone model, there are three being sold right now, so it's not all of Android vs. one model.
Throwing the Touch is just a distraction as far as I'm concerned, because the category in question is clearly smart phones, not handheld devices (No DS) or mobile platforms in general. Out-of-category devices that happen to run the same OS isn't relevant to the category in question. Unless you also want to throw in iPaqs, ATMs, point-of-sale and other embedded devices that run Windows Mobile, and that might skew things in weird ways too, in ways not relevant to the survey in question.
If you are going to come up with a "conclusion" at least make an effort to use numbers that are meaningful. You are tossing in thinks, extrapolations, and other fluff without any detail. And you additionally only select AT&T activations and some small percentage of that as smartphones. Is this meant to say this is the percentage that represents iPhone? Since you measure Android on a worldwide basis why would you use only AT&T as the iPhone basis?
By your argument, that would make iPhones only part of the 2.7m that AT&T activated, thus making the number of iPhones smaller and less competitive.
I dropped my t-mobile blackberry pearl and got an iphone because I didn't want to buy missing sync to syn with my iMac. Your statement says that may have been a bad move because I may have bought into something that has a finite lifespan.
Comments
As I wrote yesterday, AT&T reported 2.7m activations this past quarter. Some small number above that may have bought iPhones and activated on T-mobile or outside the US.
According to IDC, HTC sold 2.6m smartphones and Motorola sold 2.3m smartphones this past quarter worldwide. (Canalys reportes 2.8m for HTC and 2.6m for Motorola, so you can see that it's not that accurate.) Samsung also sold some Android phones in the US (but its not in the top 5 worldwide so its total is less than 2.3m smartphones). There are other Android-based phones, but I think most of those sales are outside US.
So roughly over 5m smartphone sales worldwide between HTC, Motorola and Samsung. Most of Motorola's smartphone sales are probably in the US. Based on 3Q2009 data, a good portion of HTC's sales were WinMo-based; I'm sure less are WinMo-based now, but don't have any data for 1Q. The majority of HTC's sales are probably outside of US, but again, no specific data.
Conclusion: The numbers indicate that Android-based smartphone sales are in the same ballpark as iPhone for Q1.
If you are going to come up with a "conclusion" at least make an effort to use numbers that are meaningful. You are tossing in thinks, extrapolations, and other fluff without any detail. And you additionally only select AT&T activations and some small percentage of that as smartphones. Is this meant to say this is the percentage that represents iPhone? Since you measure Android on a worldwide basis why would you use only AT&T as the iPhone basis?
I will NOT get an iPhone as long as AT&T is the carrier. In fact, I and many others will NOT get an iPhone until it comes to Verizon and only Verizon.
Besides, with my DROID Incredible, I'm pretty sure I won't be asking for an iPhone in the future. And many more are in the same boat!
Attack that now all you want.
what? could you be any more blindly biased? same holds true for most apple stats but nobody complains about those. android can be good without iphone being bad.
Actually, any Statistician will tell you that any statistical analysis is just a bunch of lies, any statistician worth his degree can make a bunch of numbers tell a story they want to tell and the fact this analysis is base on some sort of survey makes is far worse. And no, I do not believe apples numbers either, just like they are claiming to be the 3 largest cell phone maker, well they dices that data down to smart phones only, but now people think they are number 3 in the world for all cell phones. People forget the assumption and caveats behind the analysis and draw conclusion which are not factual.
Droid? So all these manufactures managed to sell more in ever growing market against only one phone. Good for them. Not bad for iPhone either.
"This is a very limited report on 150,000 U.S. consumers responding to an online survey and does not account for the more than 85 million iPhone and iPod touch customers worldwide,"
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
And where in the business handbook does it say that you aren't allowed to have BOGO promotions?
Is it ethical? Yes No. There is no one size fits all code of Ethics. Each business defines it's own and declares itself ethical.
Does it cause additional money to be made? Yes Yes
BOGO is completely fair game. I'm still surprised Apple/AT&T hasn't done one to even further increase its marketshare and profits.
Oh? And you have the actual Q1 sales numbers to prove that NPD's data is a lie?
All is fair in love and war.
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
Interesting catch...
All is fair in love and war.
Eh, you have a point there. I was thinking in broad terms or moral ethics. They didn't sacrifice a million kids or stole from the poor or used oil derived from currently endangers species in the delivery trucks to initiate the BOGO deal. That we know of...
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
The report says Android outsells iPhone. Android is an OS. iPhone is a smartphone. iPhone OS on the other hand is used on iPod Touch and iPad.
"Ethical" business cannot be done in China?
I was unaware of that (and I'm no big fan of the government of the PRC, although I appreciate Chinese citizens.)
You mean to tell me that offshoring jobs (like the manufacturing jobs that help put the iphone together) is ethical for the American worker? hmmmm.
BOGO is completely fair game. I'm still surprised Apple/AT&T hasn't done one to even further increase its marketshare and profits.
I don't get why people say this is a bad thing. As a consumer, I'd be happy if people cut me a deal (which is what BOGO is....it's not free). I find it odd that people on here think its a good thing that Apple doesn't cut prices or offers special deals to gain marketshare. Good for shareholders. Not so good for me as a consumer (of Apple products). And where were all these people when the iPhone was first launched for $600 and the price dropped. Were they all upset that Apple 'discounted' the iPhone?
Good on Verizon and their partner OEMs for competing. People act like that's a bad thing for us consumers. If Apple and AT&T were smart, they would counter by offering the last gen iPhone for free on contract and convert every high school kid onto the iPhone platform for life....and who knows, we might see that yet! It's like smoking. The phone companies have to get 'em young!
walmart doesn't provide their employees with adequate healthcare and sends them to get additional care through their respective states, thereby depleting the funds that can go to those less fortunate than them.
(clipped)
Should retailers really should be in the business of providing healthcare to anyone anyhow?
all companies are unethical to a degree. if apple is ethical, why is it doing business in China?
There's nothing inherently unethical about doing business in China whatsoever. In fact doing business there enriches 1) the Chinese workers and companies doing the manufacturing; 2) Apple as the producer and 3) us as consumers by lowering the cost of goods.
Actually, any Statistician will tell you that any statistical analysis is just a bunch of lies, any statistician worth his degree can make a bunch of numbers tell a story they want to tell and the fact this analysis is base on some sort of survey makes is far worse. And no, I do not believe apples numbers either, just like they are claiming to be the 3 largest cell phone maker, well they dices that data down to smart phones only, but now people think they are number 3 in the world for all cell phones. People forget the assumption and caveats behind the analysis and draw conclusion which are not factual.
One question, well two questions actually. Are you a professional statistician? Do you have any formal training in statistics beyond a typical intro to math or psych stats taught at the undergraduate level?
what? could you be any more blindly biased? same holds true for most apple stats but nobody complains about those. android can be good without iphone being bad.
"The whole of geek debating is based on the Highlander principle."
--Joce640k
That I did not know. I wonder if any statisticians would care to comment on whether that can be considered to be a representative sample? Apart from the possibility that survey participants might be somewhat self-selecting or otherwise a biased set, it actually sounds like a reasonable way to extrapolate those figures.
First, I'm not a statistician, but I know enough to know that most people don't even have the first clue about basic statistics work. I don't know very well how NPD gathers its information, I think the worst of it could be self-selection, the number of respondents itself isn't a problem at all. National political polls often work with a few thousand respondents, but they try to randomize those polled sufficiently to best represent the greater population. Most of the time, the people that complain that it's only a four digit number of people polled out of a population of nine digits, don't really understand the process or the math behind it. A sample of 5000 can represent half a billion people to a good degree of confidence, but there is a process that needs to be followed.
I don't know about anything else (sorry, it sounds like a "he said, she said" kind of deal), but unless something changed, the iPod Touch isn't a phone, so it's not going to be directly relevant to a smartphone market tally.
It's apples and oranges.
If you want to compare device sales, you compare each individual smart phone model to the iPhone - and the iPhone wins handily. No single Android phone comes close to iPhone sales.
OTOH, if you want to compare OS sales (which is implied by the fact that they're lumping all Android models together), then you need to include the iPod Touch and iPad, as well.
Wow - the iPhone diehards, like Apple, seem pretty irritated by the source article. I'd go see a mental health professional.
Google's coming
What I think is funny is that almost everyone posting on this thread is a troll or someone who doesn't normally post a lot. There's a reason for that.
All you anti-Apple types are slapping yourselves on the back here, but it's not even at issue that iPhone is outselling Android by a huge margin world-wide. You can criticise this thing or that thing about Apple's statement and the fact that they include iPods in their 85 million figure, but the bottom line is this part (which doesn't include iPods BTW):
... IDC figures show that iPhone has 16.1 percent of the smartphone market and growing, far outselling Android on a worldwide basis... iPhone sales (grew) by 131 percent (last quarter) ... we see no signs of the competition catching up anytime soon."
Those are unassailable facts. iPhone is swamping Android in terms of sales and interest from both developers and customers world-wide.
The original online survey merely indicates that in the USA *only* Android *might* be doing slightly better in terms of unit sales (even as it makes relatively no money for those selling it or selling applications for it).
Also, you have not clue about marketing, Apple is not interested in gaining market share over devaluing the product. This is marketing 101, Apple will never allow the product to be given away, either you pay the price of you do own the product. Why give away a product when people are whiling to pay for.
If Apple does not care about market share and volumen, then why did they drop the price of the original iPhone by hundreds of dollars?
The report says Android outsells iPhone. Android is an OS. iPhone is a smartphone. iPhone OS on the other hand is used on iPod Touch and iPad.
There aren't a lot of non-phone Android devices out there, so exactly what would such a distinction prove?
It's apples and oranges.
If you want to compare device sales, you compare each individual smart phone model to the iPhone - and the iPhone wins handily. No single Android phone comes close to iPhone sales.
Model-for-model, brand-for-brand, iPhone *would* win over the Android, no question about that. But keep in mind that Apple doesn't sell just one iPhone model, there are three being sold right now, so it's not all of Android vs. one model.
Throwing the Touch is just a distraction as far as I'm concerned, because the category in question is clearly smart phones, not handheld devices (No DS) or mobile platforms in general. Out-of-category devices that happen to run the same OS isn't relevant to the category in question. Unless you also want to throw in iPaqs, ATMs, point-of-sale and other embedded devices that run Windows Mobile, and that might skew things in weird ways too, in ways not relevant to the survey in question.
If you are going to come up with a "conclusion" at least make an effort to use numbers that are meaningful. You are tossing in thinks, extrapolations, and other fluff without any detail. And you additionally only select AT&T activations and some small percentage of that as smartphones. Is this meant to say this is the percentage that represents iPhone? Since you measure Android on a worldwide basis why would you use only AT&T as the iPhone basis?
By your argument, that would make iPhones only part of the 2.7m that AT&T activated, thus making the number of iPhones smaller and less competitive.
I dropped my t-mobile blackberry pearl and got an iphone because I didn't want to buy missing sync to syn with my iMac. Your statement says that may have been a bad move because I may have bought into something that has a finite lifespan.