This isn't a finished model, it doesn't have any internals, it's not built to final specifications and probably isn't even using the final materials. Quit the speculation and wait for this thing to be released.
The Apple-doubters are beginning to bore me. The iPad will fail. Wrong. The iPhone 4 will be a disappointment. Wrong. People are simply making themselves look stupid, it's the same posters with the same criticisms at every product launch, who then simply fade away and find something else to criticise.
A drop or impact, obviously, is a complex physical event with some element of LUCK. Forces can strike the phone in a zillion ways. An iPhone could survive a catastrophic event, or shatter from bad luck in a drop that seems minor, just because the right force got concentrated in the right way (like a karate master breaking boards with what seems like a small motion).
That’s why you test product durability with statistics—MANY drops/impacts on many units—not a single anecdote that’s mainly good for link-baiting. (And if the test is real, the fact that the iPhone survived two such drops is impressive, actually. Even if it eventually shattered under repeated abuse.)
Strengthening the iPhone and the glass is a matter of improving your CHANCES of a good outcome, not a matter of making the device magically impervious to damage even after repeated drops onto hard surfaces. What device from any company is immune to the laws of physics?
If you drop 100 iPhones and 100 Blackberries (or older iPhones or whatever) and the iPhone doesn’t show any better survival statistics, THEN you can say Apple’s exaggerating.
(As for it being in a “class by itself,” well, if the manufacturing process is new, then that statement is true even before tests are done.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by marokero
My first gen iPod Touch was run over by a Toyota 4Runner and a Ford Mustang. The glass did not shatter at all, maybe two tiny scratches that don't bother me at all. The metal casing on the back however has a lot of dents and heavy scratches. (I slipped on driveway ice at night and did not notice the iPod had fallen off my jacket pocket). My iPod has also fallen off another jacket's pocket onto hard concrete from about 5 feet, and all it got was a scratch on the upper left corner of the metal casing. If the new iPhone's glass is any stronger than this, than I'm not worried at all.
That’s not a good real-world test. In normal usage, an iPhone is likely to be run over by tanks, semi trucks, and houseboats, not passenger vehicles.
Do you suppose maybe not having the internal componentry intact has anything to do with it?
Try crumpling a full can of food compared to an empty one.
I don't buy this either, but bending something is much different than applying instant force.
Only way Apple is going to get out of this one is to do like the old Dell commercials & show their own video footage of a new iPhone being dropped onto concrete. Even if the story is bogus I think it's about time Apple backed up their durability claims with actual test data.
I'm not making any accusations. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if the "reputable company" was not hastily put together for this very purpose. Further, wouldn't it be interesting is said company was owned by Google, MS, HTC? Raising durability fears is the only weapon these guys have left.
By the way, where is the torrent of complaints and photos of damaged iPad screens? Wasn't that huge piece of glass supposed to be problematic?
Okay to be fair, AppleInsider DID question their testing several times. read...
"Without explaining how..."
"The firm did not disclose the surface onto which the unit was dropped, nor did it perform any investigation into whether the device was more susceptible to damage sans its internal components..."
"While iFixYouri's one-off test should be considered anything but conclusive..."
But let's evaluate ifixit's testing shall we?
1. No real experiment details
2. No video
3. No iphone4 used (uh yeah sans internals means it's not an iphone4)
Umm, the unit has no buttons so this suggests it wasn't a fully assembled unit.
It may be therefore possible, that the screen was damaged prior to fitting and was put together to suggest that this has been a real test.
Phil
Did you read the article? It clearly states that it had no guts.
I think it is very important to note that ALL the pieces work together to give it structural integrity - this test is garbage. (Kinda like buying a new house, ripping out every interior wall and then bitching that it wasn't built right when it falls down after the first storm.)
and it appears that they are indeed selling each individual color for $30.
Gotta hand it to Apple. They sure have no shame.
And what about Incase, Griffin etc. $29.95 is the base line price for all their cases
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
Wait a second, we saw with our own eyes Apple BENDING THE GLASS to a point where you expected it to shatter, now we're being told it shatters after a fall of a few feet?
I don't buy it. I think this is bs, but the people know when everyone gets their iphone, they won't be attempting to prove them wrong.
(yes, I'm very pessimistic when it comes to anything a company says to sell more shit.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew07
here are at least 3 separate strikes on the screen which tells me it was not dropped, but beaten intentionally at the attempt to break the screen.
They are very open that it broke on the third attempt. and on the site they saw basically that they were dropping it face down.
Also no video and no shot of the back to prove it is an iphone. which they claim they had a real phone. somehow I'm thinking not even Powell had the exact phone but was testing internals and software and probably using the same old glass as the 3gs which is why what's his name didn't figure it out right off.
To be fair, Apple Insider faces the dilemma of whether to publish every bullshit story that surfaces about Apple or ignore it. I would have ignored this story, but the interesting thing is that they had to drop the iPhone THREE TIMES before it broke!
Message to users of Apple products: take good care of your devices. They are as durable as Apple can make them, so you might get lucky if you drop one once. Try to ensure it doesn't happen again, by careful handling and by using a protective case. If you drop one twice, be aware that you are lucky.
Apple users with demonstrably lower intelligence than you have gone one step further and shown that it is possible to destroy an electronic product if you physically abuse it enough. Just don't expect us to replace it under warranty.
Wait a second, we saw with our own eyes Apple BENDING THE GLASS to a point where you expected it to shatter, now we're being told it shatters after a fall of a few feet?
I don't buy it. I think this is bs, but the people know when everyone gets their iphone, they won't be attempting to prove them wrong.
(yes, I'm very pessimistic when it comes to anything a company says to sell more shit.)
Tensile strength (the bending) and shear strength (drop it on an edge) are pretty different. shear strength for any glass is much, much lower than tensile strength.
" sudden impact, which is "what causes 95% of glass shattering. Not because you bent the glass in your pocket, not because you dropped it and it bent, but really because of sudden impact." "
Seriously??!! No WAY!
it wasnt the jumping off the building that killed him, it was the sudden stop at the end.
Freaking Genius's !!!
wonder how the conversation in their office went...:
A : "lets drop the phone a few times and report what happens"
B : "no-one will report that the phone was fine after dropping it"
A : "I know, hand me that lump hammer, and ......&*&^% .. there... now tell them we dropped it"
I guess my first question would be this: while the no-internals iPhone 4 they have might be the real deal, is a real deal development prototyp or production prototype, or is it exactly what you can buy on the 24th? If it's not a production version of the iPhone 4, it might be possible that the glass isn't made to the final spec, since it is more expensive than traditional glass.
Also, it doesn't really matter what kind of glass you use in a phone when you drop it and it impacts on the edge of the glass. First of all, people keep saying, "hey, why doesn't Apple use Gorilla Glass?" FYI, Gorilla Glass IS an aluminosilicate glass and very well could be what Apple is using in the iPhone 4, just without the brand name- you know how Apple is with touting other brand name components they use in their products [www.corning.com]
Compared to one of Corning's other better known products (Pyrex) as well as more typical glass, the mechanical properties aren't too different:
Young's Modulus (tensile modulus-how well it handles tensile and compressive loads, i.e. bending): Pyrex(borosilicate)=65 GPa, Gorilla (aluminosilicate)=73.3 GPa; Soda-lime Glass (stuff bottles and containers are usually made of)=72 GPa
Fracture toughness: Pyrex=0.77, Gorilla=0.7;
Shear Modulus (what comes into play when you drop glass on a corner):Pyrex= 28.2 GPa; Gorilla=30.1 GPa; Soda-lime=29.8 GPa.
As you can see, the strength of all of the glasses that determine how easily it braks it you press on the screen, they're all pretty close but the aluminosilicate Gorilla glass is slighty higher. The shear strength for ALL of the glasses is only about 40% of the Tensile strength, so dropping any of them on a corner will generally result in bad things. The structure of any glass is such that it doesn't handle shear loading on its edges very well, even if it has been chemically been strengthened to add scratch resitance and resistance to failure under bending or impact loads on its top surface.
Gorilla Glass could be susceptible to this kind of damage if dropped on a corner. The only tests I've ever seen of Gorilla glass is your standard rub a key over it's surface or hammer a nail into it and see how it doesn't scratch or catastrophically fail. Never have I seen an impact test from over 3 feet with it repeatedly landing on the corner.
Now, I don't know if what Apple is using is DEFINITELY Gorilla Glass, but it is very, very, likely, it's nearly identical. So, there goes that argument. There isn't any glass right now that Apple could use that wouldn't result in this kind of failure after repeated impacts on the edge of the glass. While it may be more prone to this type of damage since the glass edge is exposed, which is an Apple design choice, I don't think this is at all a case of Apple not living up to the promises it made about it being stronger- it is, just within the limitations of glass. Sure, they could have used plastic or metal, but we already know the issues with those.
I really wish people would do some more research before simply regurgitating one source (that has a bias towards fixing iPhones) or proposing solutions.
Most people don't realize that harder does not mean more shatter resistant. For example, the sapphire glass that is used in some watches is harder and therefore more scratch resistant than a substance called Hardlex used in Seiko watches. However, it is easier for sapphire to shatter or crack from direct impact than it is for Hardlex.
My 3G S fell out of my shorts pocket onto a concrete floor as I stood up once. Couple of scratches on the case and bevel as it bounced (and let me tell you, those things can bounce!), and the SIM card holder popped out, but the glass stayed intact. I was quite impressed.
Yea same here. 3 or 4 weeks into owning my 3G, I rested it on my lap as I was driving, forgot it was there and got out of the car My iPhone landed on the gravely parking lot ground and I nearly had a heart attack. The bezel was quite marred, but the glass was spotless!
Wait a second, we saw with our own eyes Apple BENDING THE GLASS to a point where you expected it to shatter, now we're being told it shatters after a fall of a few feet?
I don't buy it. I think this is bs, but the people know when everyone gets their iphone, they won't be attempting to prove them wrong.
(yes, I'm very pessimistic when it comes to anything a company says to sell more shit.)
It is bending it slowly though, impact isn't always the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCO3
Sure would be nice if people were able to differentiate between "30 times harder than plastic" and "30 times stronger than plastic". Doesn't take much to be harder than plastic - hell, plate glass is harder than most (unhardened) steel! The PCWorld articles quotes Apple as saying, "20 times stiffer and 30 times harder than plastic." They didn't use the word "stronger". If someone has a link to where Apple calls the glass "30 times stronger than plastic," I'd like to read that directly.
Some plastics are incredibly difficult to break too, such as polycarbonate. I can irreparably bend a 1/4" thick plate of aluminum with a good hit with a dead blow hammer. I did the same thing, same hit over the same span with the same thickness polycarbonate, and it just threw the hammer back at me and returned to its original position without any damage. But PC is very scratch-prone, it would need a special coating to protect it, which is available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4
when i get my new iPhone 4, i don't plan on dropping it.
I don't think any one plans on dropping their phones, but it happens, which is why this comes up.
Anyway, we'll see how this holds up with a complete device.
Comments
This isn't a finished model, it doesn't have any internals, it's not built to final specifications and probably isn't even using the final materials. Quit the speculation and wait for this thing to be released.
The Apple-doubters are beginning to bore me. The iPad will fail. Wrong. The iPhone 4 will be a disappointment. Wrong. People are simply making themselves look stupid, it's the same posters with the same criticisms at every product launch, who then simply fade away and find something else to criticise.
That’s why you test product durability with statistics—MANY drops/impacts on many units—not a single anecdote that’s mainly good for link-baiting. (And if the test is real, the fact that the iPhone survived two such drops is impressive, actually. Even if it eventually shattered under repeated abuse.)
Strengthening the iPhone and the glass is a matter of improving your CHANCES of a good outcome, not a matter of making the device magically impervious to damage even after repeated drops onto hard surfaces. What device from any company is immune to the laws of physics?
If you drop 100 iPhones and 100 Blackberries (or older iPhones or whatever) and the iPhone doesn’t show any better survival statistics, THEN you can say Apple’s exaggerating.
(As for it being in a “class by itself,” well, if the manufacturing process is new, then that statement is true even before tests are done.)
My first gen iPod Touch was run over by a Toyota 4Runner and a Ford Mustang. The glass did not shatter at all, maybe two tiny scratches that don't bother me at all. The metal casing on the back however has a lot of dents and heavy scratches. (I slipped on driveway ice at night and did not notice the iPod had fallen off my jacket pocket). My iPod has also fallen off another jacket's pocket onto hard concrete from about 5 feet, and all it got was a scratch on the upper left corner of the metal casing. If the new iPhone's glass is any stronger than this, than I'm not worried at all.
That’s not a good real-world test. In normal usage, an iPhone is likely to be run over by tanks, semi trucks, and houseboats, not passenger vehicles.
Do you suppose maybe not having the internal componentry intact has anything to do with it?
Try crumpling a full can of food compared to an empty one.
I don't buy this either, but bending something is much different than applying instant force.
Only way Apple is going to get out of this one is to do like the old Dell commercials & show their own video footage of a new iPhone being dropped onto concrete. Even if the story is bogus I think it's about time Apple backed up their durability claims with actual test data.
By the way, where is the torrent of complaints and photos of damaged iPad screens? Wasn't that huge piece of glass supposed to be problematic?
lol they're called accidents for a reason. When someone drops their phone by accident, they don't call it an "on purpose"
Or a "deliberate".
"Without explaining how..."
"The firm did not disclose the surface onto which the unit was dropped, nor did it perform any investigation into whether the device was more susceptible to damage sans its internal components..."
"While iFixYouri's one-off test should be considered anything but conclusive..."
But let's evaluate ifixit's testing shall we?
1. No real experiment details
2. No video
3. No iphone4 used (uh yeah sans internals means it's not an iphone4)
4. No third or fourth party validation
...it's about time Apple backed up their durability claims with actual test data.
There are about 100 million iDevices in use today. I think the test data is in.
Umm, the unit has no buttons so this suggests it wasn't a fully assembled unit.
It may be therefore possible, that the screen was damaged prior to fitting and was put together to suggest that this has been a real test.
Phil
Did you read the article? It clearly states that it had no guts.
I think it is very important to note that ALL the pieces work together to give it structural integrity - this test is garbage. (Kinda like buying a new house, ripping out every interior wall and then bitching that it wasn't built right when it falls down after the first storm.)
Found the description:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html
and it appears that they are indeed selling each individual color for $30.
Gotta hand it to Apple. They sure have no shame.
And what about Incase, Griffin etc. $29.95 is the base line price for all their cases
Wait a second, we saw with our own eyes Apple BENDING THE GLASS to a point where you expected it to shatter, now we're being told it shatters after a fall of a few feet?
I don't buy it. I think this is bs, but the people know when everyone gets their iphone, they won't be attempting to prove them wrong.
(yes, I'm very pessimistic when it comes to anything a company says to sell more shit.)
here are at least 3 separate strikes on the screen which tells me it was not dropped, but beaten intentionally at the attempt to break the screen.
They are very open that it broke on the third attempt. and on the site they saw basically that they were dropping it face down.
Also no video and no shot of the back to prove it is an iphone. which they claim they had a real phone. somehow I'm thinking not even Powell had the exact phone but was testing internals and software and probably using the same old glass as the 3gs which is why what's his name didn't figure it out right off.
Message to users of Apple products: take good care of your devices. They are as durable as Apple can make them, so you might get lucky if you drop one once. Try to ensure it doesn't happen again, by careful handling and by using a protective case. If you drop one twice, be aware that you are lucky.
Apple users with demonstrably lower intelligence than you have gone one step further and shown that it is possible to destroy an electronic product if you physically abuse it enough. Just don't expect us to replace it under warranty.
Wait a second, we saw with our own eyes Apple BENDING THE GLASS to a point where you expected it to shatter, now we're being told it shatters after a fall of a few feet?
I don't buy it. I think this is bs, but the people know when everyone gets their iphone, they won't be attempting to prove them wrong.
(yes, I'm very pessimistic when it comes to anything a company says to sell more shit.)
Tensile strength (the bending) and shear strength (drop it on an edge) are pretty different. shear strength for any glass is much, much lower than tensile strength.
Seriously??!! No WAY!
it wasnt the jumping off the building that killed him, it was the sudden stop at the end.
Freaking Genius's !!!
wonder how the conversation in their office went...:
A : "lets drop the phone a few times and report what happens"
B : "no-one will report that the phone was fine after dropping it"
A : "I know, hand me that lump hammer, and ......&*&^% .. there... now tell them we dropped it"
B : "We'll be RICH !! "
I guess my first question would be this: while the no-internals iPhone 4 they have might be the real deal, is a real deal development prototyp or production prototype, or is it exactly what you can buy on the 24th? If it's not a production version of the iPhone 4, it might be possible that the glass isn't made to the final spec, since it is more expensive than traditional glass.
Also, it doesn't really matter what kind of glass you use in a phone when you drop it and it impacts on the edge of the glass. First of all, people keep saying, "hey, why doesn't Apple use Gorilla Glass?" FYI, Gorilla Glass IS an aluminosilicate glass and very well could be what Apple is using in the iPhone 4, just without the brand name- you know how Apple is with touting other brand name components they use in their products [www.corning.com]
Compared to one of Corning's other better known products (Pyrex) as well as more typical glass, the mechanical properties aren't too different:
Young's Modulus (tensile modulus-how well it handles tensile and compressive loads, i.e. bending): Pyrex(borosilicate)=65 GPa, Gorilla (aluminosilicate)=73.3 GPa; Soda-lime Glass (stuff bottles and containers are usually made of)=72 GPa
Fracture toughness: Pyrex=0.77, Gorilla=0.7;
Shear Modulus (what comes into play when you drop glass on a corner):Pyrex= 28.2 GPa; Gorilla=30.1 GPa; Soda-lime=29.8 GPa.
As you can see, the strength of all of the glasses that determine how easily it braks it you press on the screen, they're all pretty close but the aluminosilicate Gorilla glass is slighty higher. The shear strength for ALL of the glasses is only about 40% of the Tensile strength, so dropping any of them on a corner will generally result in bad things. The structure of any glass is such that it doesn't handle shear loading on its edges very well, even if it has been chemically been strengthened to add scratch resitance and resistance to failure under bending or impact loads on its top surface.
Gorilla Glass could be susceptible to this kind of damage if dropped on a corner. The only tests I've ever seen of Gorilla glass is your standard rub a key over it's surface or hammer a nail into it and see how it doesn't scratch or catastrophically fail. Never have I seen an impact test from over 3 feet with it repeatedly landing on the corner.
Now, I don't know if what Apple is using is DEFINITELY Gorilla Glass, but it is very, very, likely, it's nearly identical. So, there goes that argument. There isn't any glass right now that Apple could use that wouldn't result in this kind of failure after repeated impacts on the edge of the glass. While it may be more prone to this type of damage since the glass edge is exposed, which is an Apple design choice, I don't think this is at all a case of Apple not living up to the promises it made about it being stronger- it is, just within the limitations of glass. Sure, they could have used plastic or metal, but we already know the issues with those.
I really wish people would do some more research before simply regurgitating one source (that has a bias towards fixing iPhones) or proposing solutions.
My 3G S fell out of my shorts pocket onto a concrete floor as I stood up once. Couple of scratches on the case and bevel as it bounced (and let me tell you, those things can bounce!), and the SIM card holder popped out, but the glass stayed intact. I was quite impressed.
Yea same here. 3 or 4 weeks into owning my 3G, I rested it on my lap as I was driving, forgot it was there and got out of the car
Wait a second, we saw with our own eyes Apple BENDING THE GLASS to a point where you expected it to shatter, now we're being told it shatters after a fall of a few feet?
I don't buy it. I think this is bs, but the people know when everyone gets their iphone, they won't be attempting to prove them wrong.
(yes, I'm very pessimistic when it comes to anything a company says to sell more shit.)
It is bending it slowly though, impact isn't always the same.
Sure would be nice if people were able to differentiate between "30 times harder than plastic" and "30 times stronger than plastic". Doesn't take much to be harder than plastic - hell, plate glass is harder than most (unhardened) steel! The PCWorld articles quotes Apple as saying, "20 times stiffer and 30 times harder than plastic." They didn't use the word "stronger". If someone has a link to where Apple calls the glass "30 times stronger than plastic," I'd like to read that directly.
Some plastics are incredibly difficult to break too, such as polycarbonate. I can irreparably bend a 1/4" thick plate of aluminum with a good hit with a dead blow hammer. I did the same thing, same hit over the same span with the same thickness polycarbonate, and it just threw the hammer back at me and returned to its original position without any damage. But PC is very scratch-prone, it would need a special coating to protect it, which is available.
when i get my new iPhone 4, i don't plan on dropping it.
I don't think any one plans on dropping their phones, but it happens, which is why this comes up.
Anyway, we'll see how this holds up with a complete device.