Mobius probably builds his PC rigs like I do. Gaming performance on macs sucks in comparison. Although Valve giving macs steam support recently was very much awesome.
There's nothing wrong with that. What IS foolish is comparing the cost of a home built PC (and 99 times out of a 100, the builder forgets to add in all their costs like shipping, tax, operating system and other software, labor, etc) which has no warranty, takes up your time, and may or may not have components that work well together) to a fully integrated system from the company with the best reliability and support in the business. I really couldn't care less if you can build this system for $200 less (although I'll bet you it's not the same system since it will certainly be much larger, bulkier, and less reliable or attractive). For the target audience, that's a completely useless data point.
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
I don't think it's Apple and Blu-Ray. It's Apple and moving parts.
No one ever made the argument. Isn't it funny how the Mac-bashers have to make things up?
What I said (and others have echoed) is that if you buy a similar system with similar quality, it's going to cost about as much as the Apple product. That is an implicit statement that there ARE other quality systems out there.
It's just that the high quality systems tend not to be the ones on the $9.99 special rack at Walmart.
No, but what is funny is that you label me a Mac-basher for no legitimate reason (and there is none, I am very fond of various Apple products, critical of others)... and that I wasn't even refering/replying to you at all in my previous posts.
Fair enough. The Apple TV meets your needs. Personally, I find it too limiting. It can't play my current media (ie, DVDs) and can only play files in Apple's very limited video spec restrictions. And it all has to be in iTunes. FrontRow on a mini can play DVDs (ripped or physical) and any QuickTime compatible format. Just dump the files in your Movies folder. Pretty much everything it can do are things that are now coming built-in to many TVs (outside of playing iTunes DRM'd movies, but then just get them from Amazon instead).
As for the mini requiring endless setup and updates. I'll respectfully disagree. Unless you are hacking FrontRow or installing Boxee or some other HTPC front-end (which will be unnecessary for most people), it runs just fine out-of-the-box.
But if all you want is access to your iTunes content, yes, AppleTV is probably all you need.
It's hardly difficult to hack an Apple TV so it'll play any file you want.
This is both a pro and a potential con. The internal power supply in a cramped space without adequate ventilation was what killed Time Capsules prematurely. My TC suffered just such an unfortunate fate. Thankfully Apple replaced mine.
The larger fan on the redesigned Mini does appear better than what was supplied with the TC, but I hope there has been sufficient attention to overheating problems in this refresh ... although the bottom cover (made of rubber?) does look suspiciously similar to the TC in terms of impeding ventilation.
That was my first thought too...the potential problems due to heat. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I hope for the best.
Awesome, so this is the new Apple TV. (never mind rumors that apple tv is gone are false, its still on the site) OF course they jack up the prices!!! PIssing me offf.
Anyways, love the fact that mini is alive, hate the fact that it seems like apple does not want to sell these things by hiking the price during a recession (all other models got some $ off recently).
Additionally: Just went over the site, no apple remote, which is strage since it has HDMI and is pushed as a TV connected device (and $100 extra). Love the removable door and the size.
Actually as hard drive density has scaled as high as it has, 5400rpm hard drives are much more feasible than they used to be. Yes, a 7200rpm would be nicer for the OS drive, but my guess is heat limitations kept them using 5400 rpm.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that assessment. This is just a Mac using the TV footprint and having an HDMI port. It still doesn't have the SW or the price point that make it a viable media extender appliance.
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive? Do you think that's why there is an SD slot in the Mini?
USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?
Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?
Are *both* RAM slots easily accessible or just one? Remember the original iMac G4 which had 1 easily accessible RAM slot and required a total tear-apart to access the other slot? And how about the hard drive?
In that case it's just another way for Apple to differentiate the product and let you know that if you want the faster hard drives you'll have to pony up. The difference between a 5400rpm and a 7200rpm in a server being hit by multiple users at once would probably be more pronounced than the difference of 5400 vs 7200 for a single desktop user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive? Do you think that's why there is an SD slot in the Mini?
USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?
Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?
I would say that 1)Internet downloads, usb key or SD card, 2)USB3 will be on an Apple product when Intel starts supporting it themselves next year and 3)b/c Apple probably views eSata as a "Pro" option unneeded on the Mini.
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive? Do you think that's why there is an SD slot in the Mini?
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive?
If you bought one of these as a server, you most likely also have a client machine available which has an optical drive. Otherwise you'll need to buy/borrow an external drive for re-installs. In the future Apple might offer the OS on a memory card, but probably charge extra for the media.
Quote:
USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?
My understanding is that Intel doesn't yet support it in their chipset, which is something Apple is waiting for (and not just for the Mini).
Quote:
Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?
eSATA is one of those geeky technologies that Apple obviously hasn't embraced. The cables and connectors are pretty spartan and peripherals still need another cable for power. (As an aside, I think it's absolutely stupid that the internal SATA connector and the external eSATA connecter are incompatible; they should be the same base design with an optional retaining lock added to the external version. But it's too late to change that one.)
I agree that the server version should have included eSATA - perhaps as a replacement for the server-irrelevent HDMI port. When/if USB3 arrives eSATA will become less important since USB3 will more closely match it in terms of performance. I have the previous version of the Mini server and instead pried to top off and removed one of the two internal hard disks. I then connected a SATA cable from that port to an external Other World RAID-5 array, and it works beautifully. The only downside is the overall aesthetics (which I can live with) since the Mini case is now propped up from the base to accommodate the SATA cable. (It also helps with the cooling, although that's not too much of an issue for that machine.)
If you bought one of these as a server, you most likely also have a client machine available which has an optical drive. Otherwise you'll need to buy/borrow an external drive for re-installs. In the future Apple might offer the OS on a memory card, but probably charge extra for the media.
Remote Disc sharing works surprisingly well. You can even boot from a remote disc using it, but it slow as one would imagine.
What I don't completely get is Apple being stingy about $12 in NAND to offer the Restore Disc on USB or SD for the two premium products that don't have an included ODD. Surely the cost saved by not including the ODD far outweighs the cost of 16GB of cheap, slow NAND that could still be faster than an ODD.
I want it. Disappointed with the price increase, but I'd love to have a Mini as my living room media server. Unfortunately, I have to prioritize my expenses this year. My daughter moves in with me this Summer and starts secondary school in the fall. So my large expenditure priorities are... daughter's bedroom (~$500)>Piano ($1300)>iPad ($700)>daughter's MacBook Pro ($1200)>Mini ($800). I think I won't get the MacBook until Christmas and I won't get the Mini until Springtime...
It's not racist to state that support for most computer vendors is overseas - and many of them speak very poor English (yes, there are exceptions).
Apple uses "overseas" support centres as well, I got one when I rang about my iMac failing, it wasn't a very nice experience, the language wasn't the issue, it was Apple providing them incorrect information. My Dell has never failed, so I can't comment about their support centres.
I want it. Disappointed with the price increase, but I'd love to have a Mini as my living room media server. Unfortunately, I have to prioritize my expenses this year. My daughter moves in with me this Summer and starts secondary school in the fall. So my large expenditure priorities are... daughter's bedroom (~$500)>Piano ($1300)>iPad ($700)>daughter's MacBook Pro ($1200)>Mini ($800). I think I won't get the MacBook until Christmas and I won't get the Mini until Springtime...
Skip the piano and get a decent MIDI keyboard controller for $2-300. Piano softsynths for her MBP can be had anywhere from $100-$700. You can easily save yourself at least $700, which is Mini money heh. Of course, does she need both an MBP and an iPad? Just a couple of possible cost saving ideas
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Apple uses "overseas" support centres as well, I got one when I rang about my iMac failing, it wasn't a very nice experience, the language wasn't the issue, it was Apple providing them incorrect information. My Dell has never failed, so I can't comment about their support centres.
The only experience I ever had with Dell was when I was trying to help a friend out. He had just bought a brand new Dell computer and a week later the hard drive died on him. He had the hard drive replaced and a week later it had all kind of problems. I ended up on the phone with tech support while I was googling for possible answers. We got nowhere from them, unless we wanted to fork over money to talk to their pay line. Well within the warranty period, it was total crap. I found the answer to the problem and told them they had been completely unhelpful and I was going to recommend to my friend that he try and get his extra warranty money back.
Comments
Mobius probably builds his PC rigs like I do. Gaming performance on macs sucks in comparison. Although Valve giving macs steam support recently was very much awesome.
There's nothing wrong with that. What IS foolish is comparing the cost of a home built PC (and 99 times out of a 100, the builder forgets to add in all their costs like shipping, tax, operating system and other software, labor, etc) which has no warranty, takes up your time, and may or may not have components that work well together) to a fully integrated system from the company with the best reliability and support in the business. I really couldn't care less if you can build this system for $200 less (although I'll bet you it's not the same system since it will certainly be much larger, bulkier, and less reliable or attractive). For the target audience, that's a completely useless data point.
Oh wait, it doesn't have blu-ray. Oh well.
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
I don't think it's Apple and Blu-Ray. It's Apple and moving parts.
No one ever made the argument. Isn't it funny how the Mac-bashers have to make things up?
What I said (and others have echoed) is that if you buy a similar system with similar quality, it's going to cost about as much as the Apple product. That is an implicit statement that there ARE other quality systems out there.
It's just that the high quality systems tend not to be the ones on the $9.99 special rack at Walmart.
No, but what is funny is that you label me a Mac-basher for no legitimate reason (and there is none, I am very fond of various Apple products, critical of others)... and that I wasn't even refering/replying to you at all in my previous posts.
Fair enough. The Apple TV meets your needs. Personally, I find it too limiting. It can't play my current media (ie, DVDs) and can only play files in Apple's very limited video spec restrictions. And it all has to be in iTunes. FrontRow on a mini can play DVDs (ripped or physical) and any QuickTime compatible format. Just dump the files in your Movies folder. Pretty much everything it can do are things that are now coming built-in to many TVs (outside of playing iTunes DRM'd movies, but then just get them from Amazon instead).
As for the mini requiring endless setup and updates. I'll respectfully disagree. Unless you are hacking FrontRow or installing Boxee or some other HTPC front-end (which will be unnecessary for most people), it runs just fine out-of-the-box.
But if all you want is access to your iTunes content, yes, AppleTV is probably all you need.
It's hardly difficult to hack an Apple TV so it'll play any file you want.
This is both a pro and a potential con. The internal power supply in a cramped space without adequate ventilation was what killed Time Capsules prematurely. My TC suffered just such an unfortunate fate. Thankfully Apple replaced mine.
The larger fan on the redesigned Mini does appear better than what was supplied with the TC, but I hope there has been sufficient attention to overheating problems in this refresh ... although the bottom cover (made of rubber?) does look suspiciously similar to the TC in terms of impeding ventilation.
That was my first thought too...the potential problems due to heat. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I hope for the best.
Anyways, love the fact that mini is alive, hate the fact that it seems like apple does not want to sell these things by hiking the price during a recession (all other models got some $ off recently).
Additionally: Just went over the site, no apple remote, which is strage since it has HDMI and is pushed as a TV connected device (and $100 extra). Love the removable door and the size.
Actually as hard drive density has scaled as high as it has, 5400rpm hard drives are much more feasible than they used to be. Yes, a 7200rpm would be nicer for the OS drive, but my guess is heat limitations kept them using 5400 rpm.
But the mini Server now comes with two 500GB 7200 drives... http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC438LL/A
I hate it when marketing does that. I don't need someone to tell me that it's thin. The dimension tells me that.
That tells me that the writing is thin, but you don't need me to tell you that.
Awesome, so this is the new Apple TV.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that assessment. This is just a Mac using the TV footprint and having an HDMI port. It still doesn't have the SW or the price point that make it a viable media extender appliance.
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive? Do you think that's why there is an SD slot in the Mini?
USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?
Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?
The EASY user installed ram is huge.
Are *both* RAM slots easily accessible or just one? Remember the original iMac G4 which had 1 easily accessible RAM slot and required a total tear-apart to access the other slot? And how about the hard drive?
Are *both* RAM slots easily accessible or just one? And how about the hard drive?
I think both are, you just open the door and ram is right there. There is a pic on the site.
But the mini Server now comes with two 500GB 7200 drives... http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC438LL/A
In that case it's just another way for Apple to differentiate the product and let you know that if you want the faster hard drives you'll have to pony up. The difference between a 5400rpm and a 7200rpm in a server being hit by multiple users at once would probably be more pronounced than the difference of 5400 vs 7200 for a single desktop user.
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive? Do you think that's why there is an SD slot in the Mini?
USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?
Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?
I would say that 1)Internet downloads, usb key or SD card, 2)USB3 will be on an Apple product when Intel starts supporting it themselves next year and 3)b/c Apple probably views eSata as a "Pro" option unneeded on the Mini.
Just out of curiosity:
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive? Do you think that's why there is an SD slot in the Mini?
They can do it the same way Macbook Air does it (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/features.html)
USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?
Too early still, not very many devices use it. Perhaps next model. Don't really like the lack of USB 3.0 as well.
Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?
Agreed. Especially the server model should have one for faster backups.
How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive?
If you bought one of these as a server, you most likely also have a client machine available which has an optical drive. Otherwise you'll need to buy/borrow an external drive for re-installs. In the future Apple might offer the OS on a memory card, but probably charge extra for the media.
USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?
My understanding is that Intel doesn't yet support it in their chipset, which is something Apple is waiting for (and not just for the Mini).
Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?
eSATA is one of those geeky technologies that Apple obviously hasn't embraced. The cables and connectors are pretty spartan and peripherals still need another cable for power. (As an aside, I think it's absolutely stupid that the internal SATA connector and the external eSATA connecter are incompatible; they should be the same base design with an optional retaining lock added to the external version. But it's too late to change that one.)
I agree that the server version should have included eSATA - perhaps as a replacement for the server-irrelevent HDMI port. When/if USB3 arrives eSATA will become less important since USB3 will more closely match it in terms of performance. I have the previous version of the Mini server and instead pried to top off and removed one of the two internal hard disks. I then connected a SATA cable from that port to an external Other World RAID-5 array, and it works beautifully. The only downside is the overall aesthetics (which I can live with) since the Mini case is now propped up from the base to accommodate the SATA cable. (It also helps with the cooling, although that's not too much of an issue for that machine.)
If you bought one of these as a server, you most likely also have a client machine available which has an optical drive. Otherwise you'll need to buy/borrow an external drive for re-installs. In the future Apple might offer the OS on a memory card, but probably charge extra for the media.
Remote Disc sharing works surprisingly well. You can even boot from a remote disc using it, but it slow as one would imagine.
What I don't completely get is Apple being stingy about $12 in NAND to offer the Restore Disc on USB or SD for the two premium products that don't have an included ODD. Surely the cost saved by not including the ODD far outweighs the cost of 16GB of cheap, slow NAND that could still be faster than an ODD.
It's not racist to state that support for most computer vendors is overseas - and many of them speak very poor English (yes, there are exceptions).
Apple uses "overseas" support centres as well, I got one when I rang about my iMac failing, it wasn't a very nice experience, the language wasn't the issue, it was Apple providing them incorrect information. My Dell has never failed, so I can't comment about their support centres.
I want it. Disappointed with the price increase, but I'd love to have a Mini as my living room media server. Unfortunately, I have to prioritize my expenses this year. My daughter moves in with me this Summer and starts secondary school in the fall. So my large expenditure priorities are... daughter's bedroom (~$500)>Piano ($1300)>iPad ($700)>daughter's MacBook Pro ($1200)>Mini ($800). I think I won't get the MacBook until Christmas and I won't get the Mini until Springtime...
Skip the piano and get a decent MIDI keyboard controller for $2-300. Piano softsynths for her MBP can be had anywhere from $100-$700. You can easily save yourself at least $700, which is Mini money heh. Of course, does she need both an MBP and an iPad? Just a couple of possible cost saving ideas
Apple uses "overseas" support centres as well, I got one when I rang about my iMac failing, it wasn't a very nice experience, the language wasn't the issue, it was Apple providing them incorrect information. My Dell has never failed, so I can't comment about their support centres.
The only experience I ever had with Dell was when I was trying to help a friend out. He had just bought a brand new Dell computer and a week later the hard drive died on him. He had the hard drive replaced and a week later it had all kind of problems. I ended up on the phone with tech support while I was googling for possible answers. We got nowhere from them, unless we wanted to fork over money to talk to their pay line. Well within the warranty period, it was total crap. I found the answer to the problem and told them they had been completely unhelpful and I was going to recommend to my friend that he try and get his extra warranty money back.