Well this article has now been updated with a (u) and not that much else. The informative bits from the new report don't unfortunately appear in the updated article here, indeed the article tries to almost make the new report the same as the old one. The good thing though is it links to the new report which I hope people will read.
Here's some of it-
"While we've been unable to date to create the reported conditions in our National Testing Center in Yonkers, New York, I and a colleague did repeatedly experience loss of signal when using an iPhone 4 a few miles north of there today.
While in my home, I held the iPhone in my left hand, gripping it with normal pressure. My palm covered a gap between parts of the metal band that forms the outer ring of the iPhone and serves as its antenna. As I did so, I moved my pinky finger to the corresponding gap on the other side.
Almost immediately, the signal strength began to drop in the meter from the original three or four bars—depending on my location within the house—to zero bars. The drop took about 5 seconds.
Apple has admitted to problems with the metering on its iPhones, and there's some question about whether the drop in displayed signal is merely a metering issue, and whether call quality or the ability to place calls is affected.
In my informal tests today, however, the drop had a significant effect on both call success and quality. When the phone was in the low-signal state in my hand, calls placed to it from another cell phone (a Motorola Droid, running on Verizon's network) repeatedly failed.
And when I initiated a series of calls to editor Paul Reynolds, and then placed my pinky over the gap in the iPhone 4's band as I continued speaking, the calls consistently deteriorated. Paul first heard my voice breaking up, followed by static and the dropping of the call; again, the elapsed time from the placing of the pinky to the call being dropped was about 5 seconds.
In case people are wondering about the bumper too, here's a bit of a depressing video but it shows how little difference the bumper is making. It's the case I had planned on getting- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUX1t...eature=related
So can 17.7 dB! Or even 10 or 9! Depends on how weak your signal is to start with. The AnandTech review points out that the overall reception of the iPhone 4 is BETTER in weak areas, no matter how much attenuation there might be.
The talk is about only this, as though the metal antenna wasn't part of the reason why the iPhone 4 is much more sensitive, too.
It makes sense to me -- but I'd like to see the numbers from, you know, tests -- that if the antenna is more sensitive than others, then the attenuation by covering it with your fingers is also higher. Put a case on it. See the figures on the right? iPhone 4 = 7.2. Nexus One: 7.7. Uh-oh! But you haven't been freaking out hysterically about that phone, and it has higher numbers than the 3G or 3GS!
I've noticed absolutely no (so far) dropped calls since I bought the new phone, and that's in some really strange environments, too. The only place I couldn't get any bars is in the basement locker room in the Y I go to. No, sometimes I get EDGE there.
In other words, you can do this "bars" demonstration, but the "bars" are nonsense, unfortunately, and on more phones than Apple's. Everybody, I suspect, wants to show "5 bars!" to show how much better their phone is. Can you make phone calls with that Nokia?
What would worry me is that holding phone comfortably - not tightly - gives iPhone 4 almost twice the attenuation compared to Nexus. That is very uncomfortable difference for me, especially since this is usually the way I hold my phone. I never squeeze them too much - no need for that.
I also tend to keep my 3Gs without any protectors/cases/whatsoever. Couple of reasons there - I carry it in the belt holster most of the time. I also use iPhone dock and Logitech speakers/charger so having phone in anything else is not practical for me - I'd have to remove it whenever I wan to plug it to one or another device.
I'm not hysterical about any phone - from my point of view you people trying to defend Apple no matter what are more hysterical ones in this case , anyway I am not fussed with Nexus as I'm not thinking of getting one. While I am not thinking of getting iPhone 4 right now as well - my 3Gs is 9 months old only and I paid almost NZ$1400 (no contract) so it is too early to replace it already, but I might be looking at iPhone 4 beginning of next year or maybe middle, before iPhone 5 comes out... so I am reasonably interested to see how this problem unfurls.
I agree it would be interesting seeing real life test/compare (on the same network) between iPhone 4 and other non-Apple phones. I see no point comparing it to 3Gs because I already know 3Gs has mediocre radio and being better than 3Gs is hardly an achievement.
In case people are wondering about the bumper too, here's a bit of a depressing video but it shows how little difference the bumper is making. It's the case I had planned on getting- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUX1t...eature=related
I can assure you the rubber on the Bumper is not "shorting out" the antennas.
This should make those who have claimed that it's a guaranteed "design flaw" and a "shirt circuit" to reexamine thier foolish conclusions... but sadly it won't.
I can assure you the rubber on the Bumper is not "shorting out" the antennas.
This should make those who have claimed that it's a guaranteed "design flaw" and a "shirt circuit" to reexamine thier foolish conclusions... but sadly it won't.
I have no idea what the problem is but the problems awful. It's really starting to depress me because I like the phone so much I'd hate to get rid of it, but the thought of this happening for months and months and months is really depressing.
I have no idea what the problem is but the problems awful. It's really starting to depress me because I like the phone so much I'd hate to get rid of it, but the thought of this happening for months and months and months is really depressing.
Just add the 30-day cut off date to your calendar. No cellphone is going to be "best" for all people. I've had absolutely no issues with reception despite my repeated attempts to make it have issues, even in low reception areas. I've even reproduced the issue on another phone while mine remained immune.
Whatever the underlying issue and the upcoming resolution there has never been a better time to be a consumer. You have the 30 days to decide, but at "a few weeks" for a software update that will supposedly fix everything I might not want to risk it taking too long and potentially damaging the phone in that time frame as to prevent me from returning it.
If next months things have changed for people you can buy it again. Why risk it if it's not right for you?
Just add the 30-day cut off date to your calendar. No cellphone is going to be "best" for all people. I've had absolutely no issues with reception despite my repeated attempts to make it have issues, even in low reception areas. I've even reproduced the issue on another phone while mine remained immune.
Whatever the underlying issue and the upcoming resolution there has never been a better time to be a consumer. You have the 30 days to decide, but at "a few weeks" for a software update that will supposedly fix everything I might not want to risk it taking too long and potentially damaging the phone in that time frame as to prevent me from returning it.
If next months things have changed for people you can buy it again. Why risk it if it's not right for you?
Luckily I went back to Vodafone within 7 days and they're giving me a replacement, but because I went back within 7 days they're giving me an additional 7 days from when I get the replacement to return it and get out of my contract with no fees.
Have you travelled far with the phone? Have you met up with anybody else with an iPhone 4 and seen their phone drop bars whilst yours holds steady? I'd love to think my replacement phone will work better but I can't say I'm too hopeful, but you never know.
The funny thing is my fat, thick plastic incase for my old 3G (hardly ever used it) completely solves the issue, but it's not a workable solution because of the way it fits the iPhone 4 is all wrong.
Luckily I went back to Vodafone within 7 days and they're giving me a replacement, but because I went back within 7 days they're giving me an additional 7 days from when I get the replacement to return it and get out of my contract with no fees.
Okay, assumed you were with AT&T. Is the test time really only a standard 7 days in the UK? Yikes!
Quote:
Have you travelled far with the phone? Have you met up with anybody else with an iPhone 4 and seen their phone drop bars whilst yours holds steady? I'd love to think my replacement phone will work better but I can't say I'm too hopeful, but you never know.
Quite a bit. I've gone from 5 bars to no bars and 3G to EDGE to GPRS. I've tried dipping my hand in salty water to mimic sweat, I've tried various metals. I've never had the issue.
I've had two friends that receive bad units for other issues. Both returned and promptly given new ones at Apple Stores. No reception with them or others throughout the US.
I've only come across one person with the issue, in a coffee shop. I tried it on his, him on mine. I could reproduce the issue on his, he couldn't on mine. i have no idea if we were on the same 3G operating band, but we both had 5 bars.
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The funny thing is my fat, thick plastic incase for my old 3G (hardly ever used it) completely solves the issue, but it's not a workable solution because of the way it fits the iPhone 4 is all wrong.
I did find a Bumper at a store, about a week after I had it. It's pricey, but for the insurance of potentially stopping breakage I thought it was worth it. As you know, it's slightly heavier and quite a bit smaller so thing feels like it's going to break with a single drop. It fits perfectly, and looks and feels natural and adds enough grip to make it feel like it's doing its job. The only shortcoming, for me, is the lack of a built in button for Mute. I understand this is harder than the others but my fingers can't easily get there to flip the switch. I have to find something smaller than my finger to flip it.
Okay, assumed you were with AT&T. Is the test time really only a standard 7 days in the UK? Yikes!
Quite a bit. I've gone from 5 bars to no bars and 3G to EDGE to GPRS. I've tried dipping my hand in salty water to mimic sweat, I've tried various metals. I've never had the issue.
I've had two friends that receive bad units for other issues. Both returned and promptly given new ones at Apple Stores. No reception with them or others throughout the US.
I've only come across one person with the issue, in a coffee shop. I tried it on his, him on mine. I could reproduce the issue on his, he couldn't on mine. i have no idea if we were on the same 3G operating band, but we both had 5 bars.
I did find a Bumper at a store, about a week after I had it. It's pricey, but for the insurance of potentially stopping breakage I thought it was worth it. As you know, it's slightly heavier and quite a bit smaller so thing feels like it's going to break with a single drop. It fits perfectly, and looks and feels natural and adds enough grip to make it feel like it's doing its job. The only shortcoming, for me, is the lack of a built in button for Mute. I understand this is harder than the others but my fingers can't easily get there to flip the switch. I have to find something smaller than my finger to flip it.
I think it's just the contract that's got a 7 day period where you can get out of it freely, It's probably a month for returning the phone here too. I was in the US for 10 years up until 18 months ago and never considered getting out of my old contract with O2 here so I don't know how that all works. I got to Vodafone just in time out of luck.
It's given me some hope your testing ay the cafe. I didn't think that would happen, very interesting. It begs the question why Apple isn't replacing phones over this issue. What's your thoughts on that?
I think it's just the contract that's got a 7 day period where you can get out of it freely, It's probably a month for returning the phone here too. I was in the US for 10 years up until 18 months ago and never considered getting out of my old contract with O2 here so I don't know how that all works. I got to Vodafone just in time out of luck.
In the US, every product they sell has a 14-day return policy, san the iPhone with 30-day and risk free. I assume that is US law, but can't be certain.
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It's given me some hope your testing ay the cafe. I didn't think that would happen, very interesting. It begs the question why Apple isn't replacing phones over this issue. What's your thoughts on that?
Theories I've postulated are:
It's an issue with the TriQuint UMTS chip (or sister chip(s) that is essentially "freaking out" when there is a change to the antenna from the bridging. This could be fixed with a driver update (which could explain the "weeks" comment from Apple's PR or is a HW problem with some chips, but they are unable to tell which ones are faulty at this time.
It's an assembly line issue, but they haven't been able to isolate the issue to know which batches by serial number will be affected at this time.
If the tolerances of one or more parts are stacked a certain way the issue will result even though each individual component is within spec at each stage of production.
I think there are too many too tell and we have no way of knowing the extent, but it's clear it's a real issue. One thing to note, this bridging issue did not happen when 3G was turned off and the phone was GSM/EDGE.
Adding to the list above, it could be a real HW issue, but recalling all affected devices mght be cost prohibitive if it only affects certain users in certain conditions. Considering how complex cellular connectivity is in general, if Apple puts a bullseye on itself for a recall over reception issues — even if very clear about which serial numbers are affected — they would undoubtedly get more than just the ones within the affect range and the backlash could be more costly than simply saying nothing but letting it ride out.
Apple's PR did not lie, but they certainly didn't tell the whole truth in their statement. It doesn't take weeks to issue a fix for the way bars are visually displayed and they did remind people they had 30 days to return their phone risk free (at least in the States). I wonder if they are doing hush-hush replacements right now if you bring in your iPhone. This would be indicative of them knowing what the issue is and resolving it.
In the US, every product they sell has a 14-day return policy, san the iPhone with 30-day and risk free. I assume that is US law, but can't be certain.
Theories I've postulated are:
It's an issue with the TriQuint UMTS chip (or sister chip(s) that is essentially "freaking out" when there is a change to the antenna from the bridging. This could be fixed with a driver update (which could explain the "weeks" comment from Apple's PR or is a HW problem with some chips, but they are unable to tell which ones are faulty at this time.
It's an assembly line issue, but they haven't been able to isolate the issue to know which batches by serial number will be affected at this time.
If the tolerances of one or more parts are stacked a certain way the issue will result even though each individual component is within spec at each stage of production.
I think there are too many too tell and we have no way of knowing the extent, but it's clear it's a real issue. One thing to note, this bridging issue did not happen when 3G was turned off and the phone was GSM/EDGE.
Adding to the list above, it could be a real HW issue, but recalling all affected devices mght be cost prohibitive if it only affects certain users in certain conditions. Considering how complex cellular connectivity is in general, if Apple puts a bullseye on itself for a recall over reception issues — even if very clear about which serial numbers are affected — they would undoubtedly get more than just the ones within the affect range and the backlash could be more costly than simply saying nothing but letting it ride out.
Apple's PR did not lie, but they certainly didn't tell the whole truth in their statement. It doesn't take weeks to issue a fix for the way bars are visually displayed and they did remind people they had 30 days to return their phone risk free (at least in the States). I wonder if they are doing hush-hush replacements right now if you bring in your iPhone. This would be indicative of them knowing what the issue is and resolving it.
Maybe over time we'll know what is happening. I haven't been to the Apple store but I've called them and AppleCare, and they were resolute that they weren't giving anybody replacement phones over this issue. I can well believe that a few might get through the net, regardless Apple have made it clear they won't replace the phones. If they're counting on a SW fix that does something more than just more accurately display signal strength and actually resolves the issue, then I can understand why they wouldn't want to replace the phones now when they'll work properly in a few weeks. But if that were the case you'd think they'd mention it, so I don't have much confidence in this upcoming software update.
The following is an outright lie-
"We have discovered the cause of this dramatic drop in bars, and it is both simple and surprising."
They've discovered something to do with the dramatic loss in bars but not the cause. They lied.
Is the iPhones increased sensitivity enough to overcome the increased signal loss? This remains to be seen/proven.
For me the sensitivity of the antenna has been proven. My old 3g phone (not iphone) dropped calls about 50% of the time with full bar reception (apparently). My new iphone has the same signal (full bars) and will reduce that representation when I hold it just right. That said, the reception is still much better and I've yet to drop a call.
Obviously, we won't get any meaningful data from my or any others' posts here or at any of the various websites have done short term testing. I do trust Consumer Reports opinion though. I've found them to be very reliable over the years with unbiased info.
I haven't been to the Apple store but I've called them and AppleCare, and they were resolute that they weren't giving anybody replacement phones over this issue. I can well believe that a few might get through the net, regardless Apple have made it clear they won't replace the phones.
If you tell them the alternative is you retuning it for a full refund and then buying another or shopping elsewhere, then I have a feeling they would honour the replacement. However, if they have no way of knowing if the replacement isn't a "HW affected unit" or if it is just a SW fix then it wouldn't make sense for them to do it for every customer who causally wants it done.
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But if that were the case you'd think they'd mention it, so I don't have much confidence in this upcoming software update.
They wouldn't, it doesn't help their sales, so it's best to use misdirection. It's not the magician's fault you choose to look at the wrong hand.
I used the Blu-ray example before, and it's the same concept. Jobs put the blame squarely on the Blu-ray licensing, but the real reasons, IMO, were the excessive cost for drives that fit Apple's machines and the competition it would pose to digital downloads. Apple is trying to remove the optical drive from PCs altogether but he put the blame elsewhere. That's just marketing. Apple could at least support AACS so you can hook up your own Blu-ray drive and play movies if licensing really was the main issue.
Quote:
The following is an outright lie-
"We have discovered the cause of this dramatic drop in bars, and it is both simple and surprising."
They've discovered something to do with the dramatic loss in bars but not the cause that they then explain as the cause. They lied.
They say they have discovered it the cause (not telling us doesn't mean they are lying).
They say it is simple (while the cause my be simple, the resolution may not be).
They say it is surprising (I'd like to know what could be so surprising after 18+ months of development, but it doesn't mean it isn't and obviously something was overlooked at some point so it's surprising to someone. Either way, I don't see it as a lie)
In the US when you take the stand in a court of law you swear on a Bible that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. From what I understand, each of these things are actually quite different. To tell the truth means you won't lie (obviously), to tell the whole truth means you won't leave out any pertinent information, and nothing but the truth means you won't add in anything, while truthful, that isn't pertinent. Apple's PR isn't in a court of law and they aren't writing a technical paper so they are free to misdirect with pointless info and not give the entire story so long as it's truthful. From what I read, that is exactly what they have done, but they didn't lie.
For me the sensitivity of the antenna has been proven. My old 3g phone (not iphone) dropped calls about 50% of the time with full bar reception (apparently). My new iphone has the same signal (full bars) and will reduce that representation when I hold it just right. That said, the reception is still much better and I've yet to drop a call.
Obviously, we won't get any meaningful data from my or any others' posts here or at any of the various websites have done short term testing. I do trust Consumer Reports opinion though. I've found them to be very reliable over the years with unbiased info.
If you tell them the alternative is you retuning it for a full refund and then buying another or shopping elsewhere, then I have a feeling they would honour the replacement. However, if they have no way of knowing if the replacement isn't a "HW affected unit" or if it is just a SW fix then it wouldn't make sense for them to do it for every customer who causally wants it done.
They wouldn't, it doesn't help their sales, so it's best to use misdirection. It's not the magician's fault you choose to look at the wrong hand.
I used the Blu-ray example before, and it's the same concept. Jobs put the blame squarely on the Blu-ray licensing, but the real reasons, IMO, were the excessive cost for drives that fit Apple's machines and the competition it would pose to digital downloads. Apple is trying to remove the optical drive from PCs altogether but he put the blame elsewhere. That's just marketing. Apple could at least support AACS so you can hook up your own Blu-ray drive and play movies if licensing really was the main issue.
They say they have discovered it the cause (not telling us doesn't mean they are lying).
They say it is simple (while the cause my be simple, the resolution may not be).
They say it is surprising (I'd like to know what could be so surprising after 18+ months of development, but it doesn't mean it isn't and obviously something was overlooked at some point so it's surprising to someone. Either way, I don't see it as a lie)
In the US when you take the stand in a court of law you swear on a Bible that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. From what I understand, each of these things are actually quite different. To tell the truth means you won't lie (obviously), to tell the whole truth means you won't leave out any pertinent information, and nothing but the truth means you won't add in anything, while truthful, that isn't pertinent. Apple's PR isn't in a court of law and they aren't writing a technical paper. They are free to misdirect with pointless info and not give the entire story so long as it's truthful. From what I read, that is exactly what they have done, but they didn't lie.
No, they did explain what they meant by "cause" because they went on to explain it and that was the inaccuracies of the signal strength.
I think a lot of people will never get a replacement phone, it's shocking if not all phones have this issue, Apple have blown it. A very few might somehow get a replacement but it'll be a tiny percentage.
If Apple had a SW fix for this issue they would be screaming it from the mountaintops, not keeping it hidden. They likely don't have one and so are instead pretending they do. I guess the sales reps can tell people there's a fix on the way so people don't get put off buying one but word has spread that it won't do anything, so they've only got limited gain from that on that level. No doubt there are other reasons too why they think they'll gain too but the damage it's done to their reputation will far outweigh any benefits for them. Apple is now known as the company that walks over it's customers when the shit hits the fan and it may become more frequent too.
At the moment I'm thinking that upwards of 80% of users will over time experience this issue and some maybe even half will get really fed up and half of them may switch from Apple when they get the chance. Apple can certainly handle that and indeed keep growing, but it's hardly good for them.
Comments
David Pogue has been blowing the whistle on this with Verizon's wireless service, so I would say they probably do this with cellular customers.
It's quite ridiculous.
He really has done a lot to make the wireless carriers better in the US. I enjoyed these articles, too.
- July 30, 2009 ? http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...-instructions/
- July 31, 2009 ? http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...-beep-part-ii/
I've asked him to tackle the issue with SMS costs. So far, nothing.Here's some of it-
"While we've been unable to date to create the reported conditions in our National Testing Center in Yonkers, New York, I and a colleague did repeatedly experience loss of signal when using an iPhone 4 a few miles north of there today.
While in my home, I held the iPhone in my left hand, gripping it with normal pressure. My palm covered a gap between parts of the metal band that forms the outer ring of the iPhone and serves as its antenna. As I did so, I moved my pinky finger to the corresponding gap on the other side.
Almost immediately, the signal strength began to drop in the meter from the original three or four bars—depending on my location within the house—to zero bars. The drop took about 5 seconds.
Apple has admitted to problems with the metering on its iPhones, and there's some question about whether the drop in displayed signal is merely a metering issue, and whether call quality or the ability to place calls is affected.
In my informal tests today, however, the drop had a significant effect on both call success and quality. When the phone was in the low-signal state in my hand, calls placed to it from another cell phone (a Motorola Droid, running on Verizon's network) repeatedly failed.
And when I initiated a series of calls to editor Paul Reynolds, and then placed my pinky over the gap in the iPhone 4's band as I continued speaking, the calls consistently deteriorated. Paul first heard my voice breaking up, followed by static and the dropping of the call; again, the elapsed time from the placing of the pinky to the call being dropped was about 5 seconds.
~ http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...reports-s.html
In case people are wondering about the bumper too, here's a bit of a depressing video but it shows how little difference the bumper is making. It's the case I had planned on getting- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUX1t...eature=related
...and this one- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH4CO...eature=related
So can 17.7 dB! Or even 10 or 9! Depends on how weak your signal is to start with. The AnandTech review points out that the overall reception of the iPhone 4 is BETTER in weak areas, no matter how much attenuation there might be.
The talk is about only this, as though the metal antenna wasn't part of the reason why the iPhone 4 is much more sensitive, too.
It makes sense to me -- but I'd like to see the numbers from, you know, tests -- that if the antenna is more sensitive than others, then the attenuation by covering it with your fingers is also higher. Put a case on it. See the figures on the right? iPhone 4 = 7.2. Nexus One: 7.7. Uh-oh! But you haven't been freaking out hysterically about that phone, and it has higher numbers than the 3G or 3GS!
I've noticed absolutely no (so far) dropped calls since I bought the new phone, and that's in some really strange environments, too. The only place I couldn't get any bars is in the basement locker room in the Y I go to. No, sometimes I get EDGE there.
In other words, you can do this "bars" demonstration, but the "bars" are nonsense, unfortunately, and on more phones than Apple's. Everybody, I suspect, wants to show "5 bars!" to show how much better their phone is. Can you make phone calls with that Nokia?
What would worry me is that holding phone comfortably - not tightly - gives iPhone 4 almost twice the attenuation compared to Nexus. That is very uncomfortable difference for me, especially since this is usually the way I hold my phone. I never squeeze them too much - no need for that.
I also tend to keep my 3Gs without any protectors/cases/whatsoever. Couple of reasons there - I carry it in the belt holster most of the time. I also use iPhone dock and Logitech speakers/charger so having phone in anything else is not practical for me - I'd have to remove it whenever I wan to plug it to one or another device.
I'm not hysterical about any phone - from my point of view you people trying to defend Apple no matter what are more hysterical ones in this case
I agree it would be interesting seeing real life test/compare (on the same network) between iPhone 4 and other non-Apple phones. I see no point comparing it to 3Gs because I already know 3Gs has mediocre radio and being better than 3Gs is hardly an achievement.
In case people are wondering about the bumper too, here's a bit of a depressing video but it shows how little difference the bumper is making. It's the case I had planned on getting- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUX1t...eature=related
I can assure you the rubber on the Bumper is not "shorting out" the antennas.
This should make those who have claimed that it's a guaranteed "design flaw" and a "shirt circuit" to reexamine thier foolish conclusions... but sadly it won't.
I can assure you the rubber on the Bumper is not "shorting out" the antennas.
This should make those who have claimed that it's a guaranteed "design flaw" and a "shirt circuit" to reexamine thier foolish conclusions... but sadly it won't.
I have no idea what the problem is but the problems awful. It's really starting to depress me because I like the phone so much I'd hate to get rid of it, but the thought of this happening for months and months and months is really depressing.
I have no idea what the problem is but the problems awful. It's really starting to depress me because I like the phone so much I'd hate to get rid of it, but the thought of this happening for months and months and months is really depressing.
Just add the 30-day cut off date to your calendar. No cellphone is going to be "best" for all people. I've had absolutely no issues with reception despite my repeated attempts to make it have issues, even in low reception areas. I've even reproduced the issue on another phone while mine remained immune.
Whatever the underlying issue and the upcoming resolution there has never been a better time to be a consumer. You have the 30 days to decide, but at "a few weeks" for a software update that will supposedly fix everything I might not want to risk it taking too long and potentially damaging the phone in that time frame as to prevent me from returning it.
If next months things have changed for people you can buy it again. Why risk it if it's not right for you?
Just add the 30-day cut off date to your calendar. No cellphone is going to be "best" for all people. I've had absolutely no issues with reception despite my repeated attempts to make it have issues, even in low reception areas. I've even reproduced the issue on another phone while mine remained immune.
Whatever the underlying issue and the upcoming resolution there has never been a better time to be a consumer. You have the 30 days to decide, but at "a few weeks" for a software update that will supposedly fix everything I might not want to risk it taking too long and potentially damaging the phone in that time frame as to prevent me from returning it.
If next months things have changed for people you can buy it again. Why risk it if it's not right for you?
Luckily I went back to Vodafone within 7 days and they're giving me a replacement, but because I went back within 7 days they're giving me an additional 7 days from when I get the replacement to return it and get out of my contract with no fees.
Have you travelled far with the phone? Have you met up with anybody else with an iPhone 4 and seen their phone drop bars whilst yours holds steady? I'd love to think my replacement phone will work better but I can't say I'm too hopeful, but you never know.
The funny thing is my fat, thick plastic incase for my old 3G (hardly ever used it) completely solves the issue, but it's not a workable solution because of the way it fits the iPhone 4 is all wrong.
Luckily I went back to Vodafone within 7 days and they're giving me a replacement, but because I went back within 7 days they're giving me an additional 7 days from when I get the replacement to return it and get out of my contract with no fees.
Okay, assumed you were with AT&T. Is the test time really only a standard 7 days in the UK? Yikes!
Have you travelled far with the phone? Have you met up with anybody else with an iPhone 4 and seen their phone drop bars whilst yours holds steady? I'd love to think my replacement phone will work better but I can't say I'm too hopeful, but you never know.
Quite a bit. I've gone from 5 bars to no bars and 3G to EDGE to GPRS. I've tried dipping my hand in salty water to mimic sweat, I've tried various metals. I've never had the issue.
I've had two friends that receive bad units for other issues. Both returned and promptly given new ones at Apple Stores. No reception with them or others throughout the US.
I've only come across one person with the issue, in a coffee shop. I tried it on his, him on mine. I could reproduce the issue on his, he couldn't on mine. i have no idea if we were on the same 3G operating band, but we both had 5 bars.
The funny thing is my fat, thick plastic incase for my old 3G (hardly ever used it) completely solves the issue, but it's not a workable solution because of the way it fits the iPhone 4 is all wrong.
I did find a Bumper at a store, about a week after I had it. It's pricey, but for the insurance of potentially stopping breakage I thought it was worth it. As you know, it's slightly heavier and quite a bit smaller so thing feels like it's going to break with a single drop. It fits perfectly, and looks and feels natural and adds enough grip to make it feel like it's doing its job. The only shortcoming, for me, is the lack of a built in button for Mute. I understand this is harder than the others but my fingers can't easily get there to flip the switch. I have to find something smaller than my finger to flip it.
Okay, assumed you were with AT&T. Is the test time really only a standard 7 days in the UK? Yikes!
Quite a bit. I've gone from 5 bars to no bars and 3G to EDGE to GPRS. I've tried dipping my hand in salty water to mimic sweat, I've tried various metals. I've never had the issue.
I've had two friends that receive bad units for other issues. Both returned and promptly given new ones at Apple Stores. No reception with them or others throughout the US.
I've only come across one person with the issue, in a coffee shop. I tried it on his, him on mine. I could reproduce the issue on his, he couldn't on mine. i have no idea if we were on the same 3G operating band, but we both had 5 bars.
I did find a Bumper at a store, about a week after I had it. It's pricey, but for the insurance of potentially stopping breakage I thought it was worth it. As you know, it's slightly heavier and quite a bit smaller so thing feels like it's going to break with a single drop. It fits perfectly, and looks and feels natural and adds enough grip to make it feel like it's doing its job. The only shortcoming, for me, is the lack of a built in button for Mute. I understand this is harder than the others but my fingers can't easily get there to flip the switch. I have to find something smaller than my finger to flip it.
I think it's just the contract that's got a 7 day period where you can get out of it freely, It's probably a month for returning the phone here too. I was in the US for 10 years up until 18 months ago and never considered getting out of my old contract with O2 here so I don't know how that all works. I got to Vodafone just in time out of luck.
It's given me some hope your testing ay the cafe. I didn't think that would happen, very interesting. It begs the question why Apple isn't replacing phones over this issue. What's your thoughts on that?
I think it's just the contract that's got a 7 day period where you can get out of it freely, It's probably a month for returning the phone here too. I was in the US for 10 years up until 18 months ago and never considered getting out of my old contract with O2 here so I don't know how that all works. I got to Vodafone just in time out of luck.
In the US, every product they sell has a 14-day return policy, san the iPhone with 30-day and risk free. I assume that is US law, but can't be certain.
It's given me some hope your testing ay the cafe. I didn't think that would happen, very interesting. It begs the question why Apple isn't replacing phones over this issue. What's your thoughts on that?
Theories I've postulated are:
- It's an issue with the TriQuint UMTS chip (or sister chip(s) that is essentially "freaking out" when there is a change to the antenna from the bridging. This could be fixed with a driver update (which could explain the "weeks" comment from Apple's PR or is a HW problem with some chips, but they are unable to tell which ones are faulty at this time.
- It's an assembly line issue, but they haven't been able to isolate the issue to know which batches by serial number will be affected at this time.
- If the tolerances of one or more parts are stacked a certain way the issue will result even though each individual component is within spec at each stage of production.
I think there are too many too tell and we have no way of knowing the extent, but it's clear it's a real issue. One thing to note, this bridging issue did not happen when 3G was turned off and the phone was GSM/EDGE.Adding to the list above, it could be a real HW issue, but recalling all affected devices mght be cost prohibitive if it only affects certain users in certain conditions. Considering how complex cellular connectivity is in general, if Apple puts a bullseye on itself for a recall over reception issues — even if very clear about which serial numbers are affected — they would undoubtedly get more than just the ones within the affect range and the backlash could be more costly than simply saying nothing but letting it ride out.
Apple's PR did not lie, but they certainly didn't tell the whole truth in their statement. It doesn't take weeks to issue a fix for the way bars are visually displayed and they did remind people they had 30 days to return their phone risk free (at least in the States). I wonder if they are doing hush-hush replacements right now if you bring in your iPhone. This would be indicative of them knowing what the issue is and resolving it.
I say most of this is over hyped and bullshit. Mine works fine. Yes the bars are reduced but so did the previous gen iPhones, which I've owned.
Nothing to see here. Go back to work.
Yes, Billy Connolly.
I think you meant "Yes, Larry"
Just got an iPhone 4.
I say most of this is over hyped and bullshit. Mine works fine. Yes the bars are reduced but so did the previous gen iPhones, which I've owned.
Nothing to see here. Go back to work.
What? You're not having problems? I guess all the rest of us should just STFU, right?
Geez, I don't know how some of you made it past the womb.
In the US, every product they sell has a 14-day return policy, san the iPhone with 30-day and risk free. I assume that is US law, but can't be certain.
Theories I've postulated are:
- It's an issue with the TriQuint UMTS chip (or sister chip(s) that is essentially "freaking out" when there is a change to the antenna from the bridging. This could be fixed with a driver update (which could explain the "weeks" comment from Apple's PR or is a HW problem with some chips, but they are unable to tell which ones are faulty at this time.
- It's an assembly line issue, but they haven't been able to isolate the issue to know which batches by serial number will be affected at this time.
- If the tolerances of one or more parts are stacked a certain way the issue will result even though each individual component is within spec at each stage of production.
I think there are too many too tell and we have no way of knowing the extent, but it's clear it's a real issue. One thing to note, this bridging issue did not happen when 3G was turned off and the phone was GSM/EDGE.Adding to the list above, it could be a real HW issue, but recalling all affected devices mght be cost prohibitive if it only affects certain users in certain conditions. Considering how complex cellular connectivity is in general, if Apple puts a bullseye on itself for a recall over reception issues — even if very clear about which serial numbers are affected — they would undoubtedly get more than just the ones within the affect range and the backlash could be more costly than simply saying nothing but letting it ride out.
Apple's PR did not lie, but they certainly didn't tell the whole truth in their statement. It doesn't take weeks to issue a fix for the way bars are visually displayed and they did remind people they had 30 days to return their phone risk free (at least in the States). I wonder if they are doing hush-hush replacements right now if you bring in your iPhone. This would be indicative of them knowing what the issue is and resolving it.
Maybe over time we'll know what is happening. I haven't been to the Apple store but I've called them and AppleCare, and they were resolute that they weren't giving anybody replacement phones over this issue. I can well believe that a few might get through the net, regardless Apple have made it clear they won't replace the phones. If they're counting on a SW fix that does something more than just more accurately display signal strength and actually resolves the issue, then I can understand why they wouldn't want to replace the phones now when they'll work properly in a few weeks. But if that were the case you'd think they'd mention it, so I don't have much confidence in this upcoming software update.
The following is an outright lie-
"We have discovered the cause of this dramatic drop in bars, and it is both simple and surprising."
They've discovered something to do with the dramatic loss in bars but not the cause. They lied.
Just got an iPhone 4.
I say most of this is over hyped and bullshit. Mine works fine. Yes the bars are reduced but so did the previous gen iPhones, which I've owned.
Nothing to see here. Go back to work.
You "Just got an iPhone" so maybe, just maybe, you might go somewhere where you do have problems.
Is the iPhones increased sensitivity enough to overcome the increased signal loss? This remains to be seen/proven.
For me the sensitivity of the antenna has been proven. My old 3g phone (not iphone) dropped calls about 50% of the time with full bar reception (apparently). My new iphone has the same signal (full bars) and will reduce that representation when I hold it just right. That said, the reception is still much better and I've yet to drop a call.
Obviously, we won't get any meaningful data from my or any others' posts here or at any of the various websites have done short term testing. I do trust Consumer Reports opinion though. I've found them to be very reliable over the years with unbiased info.
I haven't been to the Apple store but I've called them and AppleCare, and they were resolute that they weren't giving anybody replacement phones over this issue. I can well believe that a few might get through the net, regardless Apple have made it clear they won't replace the phones.
If you tell them the alternative is you retuning it for a full refund and then buying another or shopping elsewhere, then I have a feeling they would honour the replacement. However, if they have no way of knowing if the replacement isn't a "HW affected unit" or if it is just a SW fix then it wouldn't make sense for them to do it for every customer who causally wants it done.
But if that were the case you'd think they'd mention it, so I don't have much confidence in this upcoming software update.
They wouldn't, it doesn't help their sales, so it's best to use misdirection. It's not the magician's fault you choose to look at the wrong hand.
I used the Blu-ray example before, and it's the same concept. Jobs put the blame squarely on the Blu-ray licensing, but the real reasons, IMO, were the excessive cost for drives that fit Apple's machines and the competition it would pose to digital downloads. Apple is trying to remove the optical drive from PCs altogether but he put the blame elsewhere. That's just marketing. Apple could at least support AACS so you can hook up your own Blu-ray drive and play movies if licensing really was the main issue.
The following is an outright lie-
"We have discovered the cause of this dramatic drop in bars, and it is both simple and surprising."
They've discovered something to do with the dramatic loss in bars but not the cause that they then explain as the cause. They lied.
- They say they have discovered it the cause (not telling us doesn't mean they are lying).
- They say it is simple (while the cause my be simple, the resolution may not be).
- They say it is surprising (I'd like to know what could be so surprising after 18+ months of development, but it doesn't mean it isn't and obviously something was overlooked at some point so it's surprising to someone. Either way, I don't see it as a lie)
In the US when you take the stand in a court of law you swear on a Bible that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. From what I understand, each of these things are actually quite different. To tell the truth means you won't lie (obviously), to tell the whole truth means you won't leave out any pertinent information, and nothing but the truth means you won't add in anything, while truthful, that isn't pertinent. Apple's PR isn't in a court of law and they aren't writing a technical paper so they are free to misdirect with pointless info and not give the entire story so long as it's truthful. From what I read, that is exactly what they have done, but they didn't lie.For me the sensitivity of the antenna has been proven. My old 3g phone (not iphone) dropped calls about 50% of the time with full bar reception (apparently). My new iphone has the same signal (full bars) and will reduce that representation when I hold it just right. That said, the reception is still much better and I've yet to drop a call.
Obviously, we won't get any meaningful data from my or any others' posts here or at any of the various websites have done short term testing. I do trust Consumer Reports opinion though. I've found them to be very reliable over the years with unbiased info.
What did you take from their report?
If you tell them the alternative is you retuning it for a full refund and then buying another or shopping elsewhere, then I have a feeling they would honour the replacement. However, if they have no way of knowing if the replacement isn't a "HW affected unit" or if it is just a SW fix then it wouldn't make sense for them to do it for every customer who causally wants it done.
They wouldn't, it doesn't help their sales, so it's best to use misdirection. It's not the magician's fault you choose to look at the wrong hand.
I used the Blu-ray example before, and it's the same concept. Jobs put the blame squarely on the Blu-ray licensing, but the real reasons, IMO, were the excessive cost for drives that fit Apple's machines and the competition it would pose to digital downloads. Apple is trying to remove the optical drive from PCs altogether but he put the blame elsewhere. That's just marketing. Apple could at least support AACS so you can hook up your own Blu-ray drive and play movies if licensing really was the main issue.
- They say they have discovered it the cause (not telling us doesn't mean they are lying).
- They say it is simple (while the cause my be simple, the resolution may not be).
- They say it is surprising (I'd like to know what could be so surprising after 18+ months of development, but it doesn't mean it isn't and obviously something was overlooked at some point so it's surprising to someone. Either way, I don't see it as a lie)
In the US when you take the stand in a court of law you swear on a Bible that you'll tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. From what I understand, each of these things are actually quite different. To tell the truth means you won't lie (obviously), to tell the whole truth means you won't leave out any pertinent information, and nothing but the truth means you won't add in anything, while truthful, that isn't pertinent. Apple's PR isn't in a court of law and they aren't writing a technical paper. They are free to misdirect with pointless info and not give the entire story so long as it's truthful. From what I read, that is exactly what they have done, but they didn't lie.No, they did explain what they meant by "cause" because they went on to explain it and that was the inaccuracies of the signal strength.
I think a lot of people will never get a replacement phone, it's shocking if not all phones have this issue, Apple have blown it. A very few might somehow get a replacement but it'll be a tiny percentage.
If Apple had a SW fix for this issue they would be screaming it from the mountaintops, not keeping it hidden. They likely don't have one and so are instead pretending they do. I guess the sales reps can tell people there's a fix on the way so people don't get put off buying one but word has spread that it won't do anything, so they've only got limited gain from that on that level. No doubt there are other reasons too why they think they'll gain too but the damage it's done to their reputation will far outweigh any benefits for them. Apple is now known as the company that walks over it's customers when the shit hits the fan and it may become more frequent too.
At the moment I'm thinking that upwards of 80% of users will over time experience this issue and some maybe even half will get really fed up and half of them may switch from Apple when they get the chance. Apple can certainly handle that and indeed keep growing, but it's hardly good for them.
...oops, sorry I was looking at last years calendar.
Hey do you think the bookies of Vegas will take bets on what it will be next year?
What? You're not having problems? I guess all the rest of us should just STFU, right?
Geez, I don't know how some of you made it past the womb.