As the online debate continues over possible signal problems with the iPhone 4, I've been able, during informal tests over the weekend, to reproduce the signal loss that's at the heart of the controversy.
While we've been unable to date to create the reported conditions in our National Testing Center in Yonkers, New York, I and a colleague did repeatedly experience loss of signal when using an iPhone 4 a few miles north of there today.
While in my home, I held the iPhone in my left hand, gripping it with normal pressure. My palm covered a gap between parts of the metal band that forms the outer ring of the iPhone and serves as its antenna. As I did so, I moved my pinky finger to the corresponding gap on the other side.
Almost immediately, the signal strength began to drop in the meter from the original three or four bars—depending on my location within the house—to zero bars. The drop took about 5 seconds.
Apple has admitted to problems with the metering on its iPhones, and there's some question about whether the drop in displayed signal is merely a metering issue, and whether call quality or the ability to place calls is affected.
In my informal tests today, however, the drop had a significant effect on both call success and quality. When the phone was in the low-signal state in my hand, calls placed to it from another cell phone (a Motorola Droid, running on Verizon's network) repeatedly failed.
And when I initiated a series of calls to editor Paul Reynolds, and then placed my pinky over the gap in the iPhone 4's band as I continued speaking, the calls consistently deteriorated. Paul first heard my voice breaking up, followed by static and the dropping of the call; again, the elapsed time from the placing of the pinky to the call being dropped was about 5 seconds.
Our findings are not definitive, by any means; they are informal tests by journalists rather than lab tests by Consumer Reports testing staff. And among the scores of comments on our last post on this topic are those that report fine and consistent signal experiences with their new iPhones.
We'll continue to explore this issue and continue our efforts to determine the extent of this problem.
In the meantime, I'll be appearing this evening at 6:48 pm on the Fox News network to discuss the iPhone 4 and Droid X, which we recently place in a head-to-head smartphone face-off.
I missed this post, but I'm sure you won't believe me.
I would have thought the dialogue came up in this case because it switched from wifi to cellular when the wifi stopped working. If you can prove that that wouldn't have happened, please do.
Excuse me? You're the one proposing a wild, unsubstantiated, senseless theory.
I'm curious, but to some extent you're right. I already know how my phone behaves and that's my biggest concern. The bigger issue is whether Apple is being misleading, which from their actions and what they've said so far I know they are. That makes me question the keynote too.
No, I think the bigger issue is whether you were involved with Glenn Beck in the murder of a girl in 1990 and helped cover it up.
Excuse me? You're the one proposing a wild, unsubstantiated, senseless theory.
I think I'm right in thinking that it's highly likely that the "Could not activate cellular data network." message would pop up when the phone tries to activate data. If you think that's not the case, fine. I can't be bothered trying to prove it does and you can't be bothered trying to prove it doesn't. Let's drop it (no pun intended).
Now that Apple has ANOTHER killer device out there, the competition is ramping up the FUD and throwing fodder to trolls and astroturfers in order to run with it.
i can't wait until the iPhone 4 arrives in Canada later this month so I can upgrade from my 3GS on the Rogers network and continue to get flawless reception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon
Ehhhh?
You missed that one. Shame. It was really good, too.
Now that Apple has ANOTHER killer device out there, the competition is ramping up the FUD and throwing fodder to trolls and astroturfers in order to run with it.
Trolls and astroturfers
What did you make of the new Consumer Reports piece posted a few posts up?
It seems that AI didn't noticed that it was a blog entry from one of the Consumer Reports journalists, really NOT some kind of review from their testing labs, meanwhile it is not surprising that they didn't updated their story with the day-after findings of this same CR journalist ...
Quote:
While in my home, I held the iPhone in my left hand, gripping it with normal pressure. My palm covered a gap between parts of the metal band that forms the outer ring of the iPhone and serves as its antenna. As I did so, I moved my pinky finger to the corresponding gap on the other side.
Almost immediately, the signal strength began to drop in the meter from the original three or four bars?depending on my location within the house?to zero bars. The drop took about 5 seconds. (...)
the drop had a significant effect on both call success and quality. (...)
And when I initiated a series of calls to editor Paul Reynolds, and then placed my pinky over the gap in the iPhone 4's band as I continued speaking, the calls consistently deteriorated. Paul first heard my voice breaking up, followed by static and the dropping of the call; again, the elapsed time from the placing of the pinky to the call being dropped was about 5 seconds. (...)
The AnandTech tests were the only effective and scientific tests conducted yet.
The results were clear.
1) The iPhone 4 gets a signal in areas with reception where earlier iPhones would be completely dead.
2) The iPhone 4 "death grip" issue is real, but it causes a maximum drop of 24dBm.
3) The only time it will be enough to drop a call is in cases where earlier iPhones would never have made a call, and would have simply displayed 0 bars. So, even after the death grip, the iPhone 4 still has much better reception than earlier iPhones.
4) The bar inflation issue is real.
5) Other phones suffer from attenuation just like the iPhone 4 does.
6) The iPhone 4 death grip attenuation is more than other phones' attenuation, but even after the attenuation, the signal is much better.
Problem here is, -24dB can kill your signal if it is not perfect to start with. I don't know how good is AT&T coverage over there, but Vodafone (NZ) is showing anything between 1 and 5 bars across Auckland - according to my 3Gs. I have a few (noticed) spots around the city with "No signal" on 3Gs, while my business cheapo Nokia E63 is showing perfect reception almost anywhere... sad.
Additionally, signal drop is much more severe than other (compared) phones:
Signal Attenuation Comparison in dB - Lower is Better
………………Cupping Tightly………Naturally……..On Open Palm…….Naturally Inside Case
And I am old enough to remember when Consumer Reports was above paid reviews (blogging in today's vernacular).
They used to only review a category of products and impartially evaluate them, this blog entry just reeks.
It's the blog. It's not their full lab. But it's their reaction.
I know your hopes are up to make Apple go bankrupt because of this little parlor trick, but the fact is, it's a minor effect.
Most people that I know kept their iPhones in a case of some kind just to keep it safe, or look cool. Now they have another reason. There are tons of other cases for the iPhone 4 that are either available now or that soon will be.
You'll have to get one for your Nexus One, just to be consistent.
Problem here is, -24dB can kill your signal if it is not perfect to start with. I don't know how good is AT&T coverage over there, but Vodafone (NZ) is showing anything between 1 and 5 bars across Auckland - according to my 3Gs. I have a few (noticed) spots around the city with "No signal" on 3Gs, while my business cheapo Nokia E63 is showing perfect reception almost anywhere... sad.
Additionally, signal drop is much more severe than other (compared) phones:
Signal Attenuation Comparison in dB - Lower is Better
??????Cupping Tightly???Naturally??..On Open Palm??.Naturally Inside Case
Interestingly 3Gs has least attenuation, but it does have horrible reception to start with anyway (proud owner here! )
So can 17.7 dB! Or even 10 or 9! Depends on how weak your signal is to start with. The AnandTech review points out that the overall reception of the iPhone 4 is BETTER in weak areas, no matter how much attenuation there might be.
The talk is about only this, as though the metal antenna wasn't part of the reason why the iPhone 4 is much more sensitive, too.
It makes sense to me -- but I'd like to see the numbers from, you know, tests -- that if the antenna is more sensitive than others, then the attenuation by covering it with your fingers is also higher. Put a case on it. See the figures on the right? iPhone 4 = 7.2. Nexus One: 7.7. Uh-oh! But you haven't been freaking out hysterically about that phone, and it has higher numbers than the 3G or 3GS!
I've noticed absolutely no (so far) dropped calls since I bought the new phone, and that's in some really strange environments, too. The only place I couldn't get any bars is in the basement locker room in the Y I go to. No, sometimes I get EDGE there.
In other words, you can do this "bars" demonstration, but the "bars" are nonsense, unfortunately, and on more phones than Apple's. Everybody, I suspect, wants to show "5 bars!" to show how much better their phone is. Can you make phone calls with that Nokia?
So can 17.7 dB! Or even 10 or 9! Depends on how weak your signal is to start with. The AnandTech review points out that the overall reception of the iPhone 4 is BETTER in weak areas, no matter how much attenuation there might be.
The talk is about only this, as though the metal antenna wasn't part of the reason why the iPhone 4 is much more sensitive, too.
What I find most interesting is why the other phones attenuation is so hight when cupped tightly, especially the Nexus One, and why a case would help the Nexus One if it's already shrouded in plastic?
I understand the stories about how its just an error in the signal reporting in all that, and i would believe em too if i didnt go through today. I spent ALL day trying to contact about 30 friends on 30 DIFFERENT phone numbers in the same place (charles river). not one call got through. When one of them finally did call me, the proximity sensor wasnt working right and my cheek muted me and put them on hold. the hung up. FMi. I love iphone but damn, that was crazy. i had my case on and took it off a couple of times. when i did take it off it would drop calls, and sometimes switch to edge. thx to my phone not workin, i was alone for about 4 hours. on july 4. damn. im tired of apple saying there are no problems, today just sucked 4 me.
I understand the stories about how its just an error in the signal reporting in all that, and i would believe em too if i didnt go through today. I spent ALL day trying to contact about 30 friends on 30 DIFFERENT phone numbers in the same place (charles river). not one call got through. When one of them finally did call me, the proximity sensor wasnt working right and my cheek muted me and put them on hold. the hung up. FMi. I love iphone but damn, that was crazy. i had my case on and took it off a couple of times. when i did take it off it would drop calls, and sometimes switch to edge. thx to my phone not workin, i was alone for about 4 hours. on july 4. damn. im tired of apple saying there are no problems, today just sucked 4 me.
My sincere sympathy for you! No one can understand your problems better than I do, I went through each of them :-) The best way out is, incidentally, provided by Apple themselves. It's called 3GS.
Charles River is beautiful water. Great fireworks. I, personally, wouldn't let Apple spoil it for me.
Comments
Well, it looks like Consumer Reports found the issue after all. This is their follow up tests at home.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...reports-s.html
I just came in here to post that:
As the online debate continues over possible signal problems with the iPhone 4, I've been able, during informal tests over the weekend, to reproduce the signal loss that's at the heart of the controversy.
While we've been unable to date to create the reported conditions in our National Testing Center in Yonkers, New York, I and a colleague did repeatedly experience loss of signal when using an iPhone 4 a few miles north of there today.
While in my home, I held the iPhone in my left hand, gripping it with normal pressure. My palm covered a gap between parts of the metal band that forms the outer ring of the iPhone and serves as its antenna. As I did so, I moved my pinky finger to the corresponding gap on the other side.
Almost immediately, the signal strength began to drop in the meter from the original three or four bars—depending on my location within the house—to zero bars. The drop took about 5 seconds.
Apple has admitted to problems with the metering on its iPhones, and there's some question about whether the drop in displayed signal is merely a metering issue, and whether call quality or the ability to place calls is affected.
In my informal tests today, however, the drop had a significant effect on both call success and quality. When the phone was in the low-signal state in my hand, calls placed to it from another cell phone (a Motorola Droid, running on Verizon's network) repeatedly failed.
And when I initiated a series of calls to editor Paul Reynolds, and then placed my pinky over the gap in the iPhone 4's band as I continued speaking, the calls consistently deteriorated. Paul first heard my voice breaking up, followed by static and the dropping of the call; again, the elapsed time from the placing of the pinky to the call being dropped was about 5 seconds.
Our findings are not definitive, by any means; they are informal tests by journalists rather than lab tests by Consumer Reports testing staff. And among the scores of comments on our last post on this topic are those that report fine and consistent signal experiences with their new iPhones.
We'll continue to explore this issue and continue our efforts to determine the extent of this problem.
In the meantime, I'll be appearing this evening at 6:48 pm on the Fox News network to discuss the iPhone 4 and Droid X, which we recently place in a head-to-head smartphone face-off.
Now what say ye?
I just came in here to post that:
Now what say ye?
I think this was already posted earlier on in the thread, but it's good to read it again.
Edit. Sorry Mazda 3s I think that was in a different thread, not this one.
I missed this post, but I'm sure you won't believe me.
I would have thought the dialogue came up in this case because it switched from wifi to cellular when the wifi stopped working. If you can prove that that wouldn't have happened, please do.
Excuse me? You're the one proposing a wild, unsubstantiated, senseless theory.
I'm curious, but to some extent you're right. I already know how my phone behaves and that's my biggest concern. The bigger issue is whether Apple is being misleading, which from their actions and what they've said so far I know they are. That makes me question the keynote too.
No, I think the bigger issue is whether you were involved with Glenn Beck in the murder of a girl in 1990 and helped cover it up.
No, I think the bigger issue is whether you were involved with Glenn Beck in the murder of a girl in 1990 and helped cover it up.
Ehhhh?
Excuse me? You're the one proposing a wild, unsubstantiated, senseless theory.
I think I'm right in thinking that it's highly likely that the "Could not activate cellular data network." message would pop up when the phone tries to activate data. If you think that's not the case, fine. I can't be bothered trying to prove it does and you can't be bothered trying to prove it doesn't. Let's drop it (no pun intended).
i can't wait until the iPhone 4 arrives in Canada later this month so I can upgrade from my 3GS on the Rogers network and continue to get flawless reception.
Ehhhh?
You missed that one. Shame. It was really good, too.
Now that Apple has ANOTHER killer device out there, the competition is ramping up the FUD and throwing fodder to trolls and astroturfers in order to run with it.
Trolls and astroturfers
What did you make of the new Consumer Reports piece posted a few posts up?
Ehhhh?
I guess.
While in my home, I held the iPhone in my left hand, gripping it with normal pressure. My palm covered a gap between parts of the metal band that forms the outer ring of the iPhone and serves as its antenna. As I did so, I moved my pinky finger to the corresponding gap on the other side.
Almost immediately, the signal strength began to drop in the meter from the original three or four bars?depending on my location within the house?to zero bars. The drop took about 5 seconds. (...)
the drop had a significant effect on both call success and quality. (...)
And when I initiated a series of calls to editor Paul Reynolds, and then placed my pinky over the gap in the iPhone 4's band as I continued speaking, the calls consistently deteriorated. Paul first heard my voice breaking up, followed by static and the dropping of the call; again, the elapsed time from the placing of the pinky to the call being dropped was about 5 seconds. (...)
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...reports-s.html
Trolls and astroturfers
What did you make of the new Consumer Reports piece posted a few posts up?
It's a manufacturing issue, not a design issue. Get over it.
Only a limited number of the units sold have this "issue."
What's the big deal?
And if it's such a problem, why are these things continuing to sell out, with so many happy customers?
The REAL issue here are the trolls and astroturfers infesting Apple fansites. AI bannings are way too lenient.
The AnandTech tests were the only effective and scientific tests conducted yet.
The results were clear.
1) The iPhone 4 gets a signal in areas with reception where earlier iPhones would be completely dead.
2) The iPhone 4 "death grip" issue is real, but it causes a maximum drop of 24dBm.
3) The only time it will be enough to drop a call is in cases where earlier iPhones would never have made a call, and would have simply displayed 0 bars. So, even after the death grip, the iPhone 4 still has much better reception than earlier iPhones.
4) The bar inflation issue is real.
5) Other phones suffer from attenuation just like the iPhone 4 does.
6) The iPhone 4 death grip attenuation is more than other phones' attenuation, but even after the attenuation, the signal is much better.
Problem here is, -24dB can kill your signal if it is not perfect to start with. I don't know how good is AT&T coverage over there, but Vodafone (NZ) is showing anything between 1 and 5 bars across Auckland - according to my 3Gs. I have a few (noticed) spots around the city with "No signal" on 3Gs, while my business cheapo Nokia E63 is showing perfect reception almost anywhere... sad.
Additionally, signal drop is much more severe than other (compared) phones:
Signal Attenuation Comparison in dB - Lower is Better
………………Cupping Tightly………Naturally……..On Open Palm…….Naturally Inside Case
iPhone 4………………24.6………………19.8………………….9.2………………………………7. 2
iPhone 3GS………….14.3………………..1.9………………..0.2………………………………3. 2
HTC Nexus One…..17.7……………….10.7……………….6.7………………………………7.7
Interestingly 3Gs has least attenuation, but it does have horrible reception to start with anyway (proud owner here!
And I am old enough to remember when Consumer Reports was above paid reviews (blogging in today's vernacular).
They used to only review a category of products and impartially evaluate them, this blog entry just reeks.
It's the blog. It's not their full lab. But it's their reaction.
I know your hopes are up to make Apple go bankrupt because of this little parlor trick, but the fact is, it's a minor effect.
Most people that I know kept their iPhones in a case of some kind just to keep it safe, or look cool. Now they have another reason. There are tons of other cases for the iPhone 4 that are either available now or that soon will be.
You'll have to get one for your Nexus One, just to be consistent.
Problem here is, -24dB can kill your signal if it is not perfect to start with. I don't know how good is AT&T coverage over there, but Vodafone (NZ) is showing anything between 1 and 5 bars across Auckland - according to my 3Gs. I have a few (noticed) spots around the city with "No signal" on 3Gs, while my business cheapo Nokia E63 is showing perfect reception almost anywhere... sad.
Additionally, signal drop is much more severe than other (compared) phones:
Signal Attenuation Comparison in dB - Lower is Better
??????Cupping Tightly???Naturally??..On Open Palm??.Naturally Inside Case
iPhone 4??????24.6??????19.8???????.9. 2????????????7.2
iPhone 3GS????.14.3??????..1.9??????..0.2 ????????????3.2
HTC Nexus One?..17.7??????.10.7??????.6.7??? ?????????7.7
Interestingly 3Gs has least attenuation, but it does have horrible reception to start with anyway (proud owner here!
So can 17.7 dB! Or even 10 or 9! Depends on how weak your signal is to start with. The AnandTech review points out that the overall reception of the iPhone 4 is BETTER in weak areas, no matter how much attenuation there might be.
The talk is about only this, as though the metal antenna wasn't part of the reason why the iPhone 4 is much more sensitive, too.
It makes sense to me -- but I'd like to see the numbers from, you know, tests -- that if the antenna is more sensitive than others, then the attenuation by covering it with your fingers is also higher. Put a case on it. See the figures on the right? iPhone 4 = 7.2. Nexus One: 7.7. Uh-oh! But you haven't been freaking out hysterically about that phone, and it has higher numbers than the 3G or 3GS!
I've noticed absolutely no (so far) dropped calls since I bought the new phone, and that's in some really strange environments, too. The only place I couldn't get any bars is in the basement locker room in the Y I go to. No, sometimes I get EDGE there.
In other words, you can do this "bars" demonstration, but the "bars" are nonsense, unfortunately, and on more phones than Apple's. Everybody, I suspect, wants to show "5 bars!" to show how much better their phone is. Can you make phone calls with that Nokia?
So can 17.7 dB! Or even 10 or 9! Depends on how weak your signal is to start with. The AnandTech review points out that the overall reception of the iPhone 4 is BETTER in weak areas, no matter how much attenuation there might be.
The talk is about only this, as though the metal antenna wasn't part of the reason why the iPhone 4 is much more sensitive, too.
What I find most interesting is why the other phones attenuation is so hight when cupped tightly, especially the Nexus One, and why a case would help the Nexus One if it's already shrouded in plastic?
im tired of apple saying there are no problems, today just sucked 4 me.
How do you know that the fault was in your phone. There are tons of variables involved.
I understand the stories about how its just an error in the signal reporting in all that, and i would believe em too if i didnt go through today. I spent ALL day trying to contact about 30 friends on 30 DIFFERENT phone numbers in the same place (charles river). not one call got through. When one of them finally did call me, the proximity sensor wasnt working right and my cheek muted me and put them on hold. the hung up. FMi. I love iphone but damn, that was crazy. i had my case on and took it off a couple of times. when i did take it off it would drop calls, and sometimes switch to edge. thx to my phone not workin, i was alone for about 4 hours. on july 4. damn. im tired of apple saying there are no problems, today just sucked 4 me.
My sincere sympathy for you! No one can understand your problems better than I do, I went through each of them :-) The best way out is, incidentally, provided by Apple themselves. It's called 3GS.
Charles River is beautiful water. Great fireworks. I, personally, wouldn't let Apple spoil it for me.