That?s not remotely true. There are plenty of tech writers and bloggers who say that the iPhone 4 gets them reception where they previously had none, with no case.
[QUOTE=Bagman;1677216]Spin control - Jobs is good at it. He said nothing that anyone hadn't already known, except to deny any prior knowledge of the problem, and promised nothing other than they were going to continue working to make the antenna issue less of an issue - and you get a free case (sorry, we can't take a hit on our bumper gross margins), so you get a nifty 50 cent case for your trouble.
They are obviously working on version 2 of the iP4, and I will wait until there is a hint of when it will arrive, because I got tired of dropping downloads all the time, which didn't happen in my 3G - ever. Yes, you infantile posters may label me a whiner, but I haven't had that argument since I was in 6th grade, so save your breath. I own a large amount of Apple stock, so it does me no good to continue to look on Jobs with a bit of skepticism, but he is, after all, a master, and you have to tip your cap to him, even if you can read between the lines just fine.[/QUOTE
My posts cover the same thing because posters on this forum keep making the same false claims about the iPhone 4 antenna. If you think they are tedious, you can skip them.
On the 2nd part of your post, there is a relationship between reception and dropped calls. By definition, dropping a call means you lost reception. The anandtech claim that reception was better with the iPhone 4 was only true if he had a bumper on. As I said before, he did not say how good his reception was without the bumper. Since I do not own an iPhone 4, I cannot test that either.
Unless you have something significant to add to this discussion, I suggest we end it here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I?m only going to reply to the first section because your posts are tedious and basically cover the same thing.
He made a comment on reception, which AnandTech (and many others) also noted with the iPhone 4, but you replied with a quote about dropped call data, thus implying that more dropped calls means the reception is worse. Do you not see how these things are not necessarily related or that you can?t drop a call unless you can first connect to a call?
That?s not remotely true. There are plenty of tech writers and bloggers who say that the iPhone 4 gets them reception where they previously had none, with no case.
I have great reception with the iphone 4 works in several dead spots that the 3gs and 3g would not work. also works in my office building where vzw had to install special equipment for bb to work..
So yes I love the phone ..
Media needs to sell papers and Apple is taking papers away with smart phones and eazy access to websites ..
Then quote those other "tech writers." That may very well be true. But the discussion was about what anandtech said. You and plenty of others on this forum like to selectively quote from the review when it suits you. Here (for like the 5th time) is what that review said:
With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all.
What ski1 wrote was exactly true. Either quote the review correctly or find someone else who agrees with you that you can parrot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
That?s not remotely true. There are plenty of tech writers and bloggers who say that the iPhone 4 gets them reception where they previously had none, with no case.
So , a logical statement that you just don't agree with is the "dumbest thing" you ever heard here? How can anyone even have a debate when you are going to go off the deep end like that? Hyperbole kills kittens you know.
Fact: iPhone 4 antenna gets better reception than any other smartphone antenna to date.
Fact: all smartphones have the same issue when the antenna is held.
Fact: iPhone 4 drops calls less than any other phone to date
Fact: iPhone 4 is more likely to still be able to make a call in low reception areas than other smartphones
Fact: The iPhone 4 antenna is exactly the way it was designed to be.
The iPhone 4 antenna is no different from any other phone antenna in regards the holding problem. It's just plain logic that if the antenna is operating as designed and performing better than all the other antennas out there, that there is no "fault" in the antenna design.
Spot on. There are two types of whiners; those that were put up to it or had a motive to FUD AAPL and those that now feel stupid and won't let go.
Yes, true. If they avoid touching the seam. The issue, the flaw. The seam that is easily touched by naturally holding the phone.
But how hard is it to work around that? The issue, the flaw. It seems so trivial. Not ideal from a new 'masterpiece' but if that is what it is and you (as in one) love it seems like such a non issue to beat. I hate cases and bumpers but I still intend to shield the 'offending area' if it proves troublesome. But I sure as hell wont blog about or even denounce Apple on these forums. That'll just take too long. Fixing is trivial, isn't it?
Okay, name an app that provides the raw signal strength information that Field Test Mode does in every version of iPhone OS previous to iOS 4 and in competing Android OS phones.
You're right, from Apple's perspective, the "average user" no longer needs this information, because it would expose the iPhone 4's extreme signal attenuation behavior to a wide audience--beyond the AnandTech and Consumer Reports labs and into the hands of anyone anywhere any time. I'm confident Apple won't restore Field Test Mode to iOS 4 because the results would be totally embarrassing and shareholders would get upset. Honesty and openness only go so far, you know? Nevertheless, this unwillingness of Apple to completely own up to its design decisions makes me sick.
Keep your shirt on and stop being so nasty.
All I meant was that the average user has no need for a "field test mode" for their phone, it's patently obvious that this is true. It's a scale in "decibels" (which even a smart person will get confused with sound decibels), and it's in negative numbers. The average person has no idea about negative numbers. Shocking but true. They wouldn't understand that -51 is larger than -121, and basically wouldn't "get" what they are looking at.
I actually agree that field test mode is handy and that it would be nice if you could flip it on with a setting switch, but Apple generally "doesn't do settings." At least they don't like to give people a lot of confusing options.
Field test mode is something geeks who comment on forums want. It's not something that the average user wants. If they return it to the iPhone it will just be as a sop to al the complaining going on right now. It serves no useful purpose to have it there when 99% or more of the customers won't use it or understand it.
Apple is now offering a free fix and they post a new blog (so obviously, they have had plenty of time to evaluate it - and your timing arguments are meaningless) saying that they still can't recommend it because they don't know what will happen at some time in the future.
Those guys are totally nuts. That makes no sense at all. They can't recommend it because they don't know what will happen at some tome in the future? Then they can't recommend ANYTHING!!!!
All I meant was that the average user has no need for a "field test mode" for their phone, it's patently obvious that this is true. It's a scale in "decibels" (which even a smart person will get confused with sound decibels), and it's in negative numbers. The average person has no idea about negative numbers. Shocking but true. They wouldn't understand that -51 is larger than -121, and basically wouldn't "get" what they are looking at.
I actually agree that field test mode is handy and that it would be nice if you could flip it on with a setting switch, but Apple generally "doesn't do settings." At least they don't like to give people a lot of confusing options.
Field test mode is something geeks who comment on forums want. It's not something that the average user wants. If they return it to the iPhone it will just be as a sop to al the complaining going on right now. It serves no useful purpose to have it there when 99% or more of the customers won't use it or understand it.
Seems awfully coincidental that Apple removed the field test mode at the same time of the iPhone 4 release. After 3 years. Too coincidental in my opinion.
Fact: iPhone 4 drops calls less than any other phone to date
Well, almost. It drops a tiny bit more than the 3GS. So the real cat is that it drops less calls than any other phone ever has in all of history, (except for one).
Not true. From a different article on this web site: "Apple on Friday shared a summary of dropped call data it received from wireless partner AT&T, which revealed that the iPhone 4 experiences more dropped calls than the iPhone 3GS, but at a rate less than one per 100 greater."
True.
Not true. Go back to the "Signal Attenuation Comparison in dB - Lower is Better" chart on anandtech.com. The iPhone 4 had the worst reception (compared to the 3GS and the Nexus One).
Again from Anandtech: " The Antenna is Improved
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."
This is only a comparison between the iPhone 4 and 3GS - not "other smartphones."
Okay.
It is not true that the antenna is "performing better than all the other antennas out there." Reread anandtech again, this time a little more carefully.
No offence but I find all this tiresome.
I don't have the energy to respond to this nonsense so I'll just say ...
- "dropped calls" is not the same as reception
- I think you're being overly pedantic about your response to my claims. Yes the comparison was to the 3Gs but the 3Gs is better than the rest already.
In any case this whole debate is just so incredibly stupid that I can't stand it any more.
Bottom line: iPhone 4 is the best phone on the market today by a huge margin in almost every way success and superiority can be measured. This is just a fact no matter what anyone says. The antenna is fantastic, it gets and keeps calls at lower signal readings than any other phone. As long as you keep your fingers off the antenna, it drops less calls than any other phone. The reception is better, and the range at which it operates is larger than the other phones.
I can't wait to get one.
=============
On another note (not in reply to the quote above):
People should just get used to the fact that Apple won this round and get on with their lives. Those that believe that Apple is somehow lying or dissembling about the facts they presented today are basically nutcases. One has to believe that they all got up there and lied, and that's just not credible at all. The CEO and all the top guys (who have a lawsuit against them on the issue no less), are going to get up on stage and lie about this stuff? Seriously?
I like this quote from Jobs to a reporter after the conference, I think it really illustrates what happened here:
(talking about the tech bloggers) ... "In search of eyeballs, people don?t care what they leave in their wake. ? in 34 years haven?t we earned trust and get benefit of the doubt? I am not saying we are not at fault. We are not just innocents in this."
This really sums it up for me. Apple has almost never done the kind of nefarious junk that other companies do every day, yet they get pilloried in the press over and over again. How many times does the tech press have to ascribe nasty motives to Apple and Jobs and be proven totally wrong, before they actually give these guys the benefit of the doubt once or twice?
Apple has always been a great company IMO. Why do we always (well not me but most folks), seem to assume they are lying, conniving, money-grubbing egomaniacs? There has never been any evidence that Apple is like that or that Steve jobs is like that. So why do all the tech bloggers seem to jump to that conclusion? Why do half the posters on this forum immediately look to the dark side of every comment out of Cupertino?
I say we should give these hard-working geniuses the benefit of the doubt and enjoy the wonderful phone that three years ago you wouldn't even have dreamed of. Maybe (shock!) even send Steve Jobs a thank you card once in a while.
But how hard is it to work around that? The issue, the flaw. It seems so trivial. Not ideal from a new 'masterpiece' but if that is what it is and you (as in one) love it seems like such a non issue to beat. I hate cases and bumpers but I still intend to shield the 'offending area' if it proves troublesome. But I sure as hell wont blog about or even denounce Apple on these forums. That'll just take too long. Fixing is trivial, isn't it?
I have a case on my iPhone 4. The first case I bought for a phone. Because I had many dropped calls on my iPhone 4. I had more dropped calls on my iPhone 4 in a few days then I had in 2 years of owning a iPhone 3G & 3GS. And I don't want to consciously always have to think about how to hold the phone differently then what comes naturally. I also used the speedtest.app and was shocked to see how dramatic the download/upload speed changes if I touched the seam in less then idea reception areas. The case fixes the issue, no doubt. And actually I don't mind the case now. I just don't like the way Apple is spinning and dancing around the issue. I think they should be more forthcoming of the issue, and stop pointing fingers at other phones. Because other phones do not have the issue as bad as the iPhone 4. Nor do the other phones have the critical spot in an area so easily touched by naturally holding the phone.
Apple bragged about how much testing they used when developing the iPhone 4. I'm surprised they didn't see this issue a long time ago with all that testing. Seems like they try to have it both ways. They say they do extensive testing in high tech labs, but yet they say they didn't see this issue.
Wow ..... did any one realize Apple not only teaching us all about radio antenna this website certainly teaches all webbies how good new HTML5 can out shine FLASH is a flash ..... well done Apple!
Dawn of the old web standards and usher in the new great 5....
Comments
That?s not remotely true. There are plenty of tech writers and bloggers who say that the iPhone 4 gets them reception where they previously had none, with no case.
Ah, but how was the phone being held?
They are obviously working on version 2 of the iP4, and I will wait until there is a hint of when it will arrive, because I got tired of dropping downloads all the time, which didn't happen in my 3G - ever. Yes, you infantile posters may label me a whiner, but I haven't had that argument since I was in 6th grade, so save your breath. I own a large amount of Apple stock, so it does me no good to continue to look on Jobs with a bit of skepticism, but he is, after all, a master, and you have to tip your cap to him, even if you can read between the lines just fine.[/QUOTE
Please sell your stock...
On the 2nd part of your post, there is a relationship between reception and dropped calls. By definition, dropping a call means you lost reception. The anandtech claim that reception was better with the iPhone 4 was only true if he had a bumper on. As I said before, he did not say how good his reception was without the bumper. Since I do not own an iPhone 4, I cannot test that either.
Unless you have something significant to add to this discussion, I suggest we end it here.
I?m only going to reply to the first section because your posts are tedious and basically cover the same thing.
He made a comment on reception, which AnandTech (and many others) also noted with the iPhone 4, but you replied with a quote about dropped call data, thus implying that more dropped calls means the reception is worse. Do you not see how these things are not necessarily related or that you can?t drop a call unless you can first connect to a call?
That?s not remotely true. There are plenty of tech writers and bloggers who say that the iPhone 4 gets them reception where they previously had none, with no case.
I have great reception with the iphone 4 works in several dead spots that the 3gs and 3g would not work. also works in my office building where vzw had to install special equipment for bb to work..
So yes I love the phone ..
Media needs to sell papers and Apple is taking papers away with smart phones and eazy access to websites ..
With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all.
What ski1 wrote was exactly true. Either quote the review correctly or find someone else who agrees with you that you can parrot.
That?s not remotely true. There are plenty of tech writers and bloggers who say that the iPhone 4 gets them reception where they previously had none, with no case.
So , a logical statement that you just don't agree with is the "dumbest thing" you ever heard here? How can anyone even have a debate when you are going to go off the deep end like that? Hyperbole kills kittens you know.
Fact: iPhone 4 antenna gets better reception than any other smartphone antenna to date.
Fact: all smartphones have the same issue when the antenna is held.
Fact: iPhone 4 drops calls less than any other phone to date
Fact: iPhone 4 is more likely to still be able to make a call in low reception areas than other smartphones
Fact: The iPhone 4 antenna is exactly the way it was designed to be.
The iPhone 4 antenna is no different from any other phone antenna in regards the holding problem. It's just plain logic that if the antenna is operating as designed and performing better than all the other antennas out there, that there is no "fault" in the antenna design.
Spot on. There are two types of whiners; those that were put up to it or had a motive to FUD AAPL and those that now feel stupid and won't let go.
Oh, and yet another reliable source showing the massive data speed losses.
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...athinator.html
These bloggers should be ashamed of themselves. How do they sleep at night?
Yes, true. If they avoid touching the seam. The issue, the flaw. The seam that is easily touched by naturally holding the phone.
But how hard is it to work around that? The issue, the flaw. It seems so trivial. Not ideal from a new 'masterpiece' but if that is what it is and you (as in one) love it seems like such a non issue to beat. I hate cases and bumpers but I still intend to shield the 'offending area' if it proves troublesome. But I sure as hell wont blog about or even denounce Apple on these forums. That'll just take too long. Fixing is trivial, isn't it?
If the old bars were never an indication of reception what makes you think the new ones are accurate? Because SJ says so...lol
They used ATT's brand new recommendations. Steve told us that in his open letter.
Apple said they knew their devices were giving people the wrong reading?
No. They said that they were stunned to discover it. I believe it - it would have stunned me too!
Okay, name an app that provides the raw signal strength information that Field Test Mode does in every version of iPhone OS previous to iOS 4 and in competing Android OS phones.
You're right, from Apple's perspective, the "average user" no longer needs this information, because it would expose the iPhone 4's extreme signal attenuation behavior to a wide audience--beyond the AnandTech and Consumer Reports labs and into the hands of anyone anywhere any time. I'm confident Apple won't restore Field Test Mode to iOS 4 because the results would be totally embarrassing and shareholders would get upset. Honesty and openness only go so far, you know? Nevertheless, this unwillingness of Apple to completely own up to its design decisions makes me sick.
Keep your shirt on and stop being so nasty.
All I meant was that the average user has no need for a "field test mode" for their phone, it's patently obvious that this is true. It's a scale in "decibels" (which even a smart person will get confused with sound decibels), and it's in negative numbers. The average person has no idea about negative numbers. Shocking but true. They wouldn't understand that -51 is larger than -121, and basically wouldn't "get" what they are looking at.
I actually agree that field test mode is handy and that it would be nice if you could flip it on with a setting switch, but Apple generally "doesn't do settings." At least they don't like to give people a lot of confusing options.
Field test mode is something geeks who comment on forums want. It's not something that the average user wants. If they return it to the iPhone it will just be as a sop to al the complaining going on right now. It serves no useful purpose to have it there when 99% or more of the customers won't use it or understand it.
Apple is now offering a free fix and they post a new blog (so obviously, they have had plenty of time to evaluate it - and your timing arguments are meaningless) saying that they still can't recommend it because they don't know what will happen at some time in the future.
Those guys are totally nuts. That makes no sense at all. They can't recommend it because they don't know what will happen at some tome in the future? Then they can't recommend ANYTHING!!!!
Hypocrites!
Actually their test proved that all other phones drop MORE bars then the iPhone 4.
Yep. All other phones drop more bars.
And we all know that the other phones do NOT have accurate bars like the iPhone, so those other phones probably have even worse reception!
Keep your shirt on and stop being so nasty.
All I meant was that the average user has no need for a "field test mode" for their phone, it's patently obvious that this is true. It's a scale in "decibels" (which even a smart person will get confused with sound decibels), and it's in negative numbers. The average person has no idea about negative numbers. Shocking but true. They wouldn't understand that -51 is larger than -121, and basically wouldn't "get" what they are looking at.
I actually agree that field test mode is handy and that it would be nice if you could flip it on with a setting switch, but Apple generally "doesn't do settings." At least they don't like to give people a lot of confusing options.
Field test mode is something geeks who comment on forums want. It's not something that the average user wants. If they return it to the iPhone it will just be as a sop to al the complaining going on right now. It serves no useful purpose to have it there when 99% or more of the customers won't use it or understand it.
Seems awfully coincidental that Apple removed the field test mode at the same time of the iPhone 4 release. After 3 years. Too coincidental in my opinion.
Fact: iPhone 4 drops calls less than any other phone to date
Well, almost. It drops a tiny bit more than the 3GS. So the real cat is that it drops less calls than any other phone ever has in all of history, (except for one).
The average user has no need for that option though so it's really not likely to happen. Better to buy an app that gives you the same info.
Actually, that is Apple's proprietary information. Consumers should not have access to it. Unlikely that there will be any app for it.
Not true. From a different article on this web site: "Apple on Friday shared a summary of dropped call data it received from wireless partner AT&T, which revealed that the iPhone 4 experiences more dropped calls than the iPhone 3GS, but at a rate less than one per 100 greater."
True.
Not true. Go back to the "Signal Attenuation Comparison in dB - Lower is Better" chart on anandtech.com. The iPhone 4 had the worst reception (compared to the 3GS and the Nexus One).
Again from Anandtech: " The Antenna is Improved
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."
This is only a comparison between the iPhone 4 and 3GS - not "other smartphones."
Okay.
It is not true that the antenna is "performing better than all the other antennas out there." Reread anandtech again, this time a little more carefully.
No offence but I find all this tiresome.
I don't have the energy to respond to this nonsense so I'll just say ...
- "dropped calls" is not the same as reception
- I think you're being overly pedantic about your response to my claims. Yes the comparison was to the 3Gs but the 3Gs is better than the rest already.
In any case this whole debate is just so incredibly stupid that I can't stand it any more.
Bottom line: iPhone 4 is the best phone on the market today by a huge margin in almost every way success and superiority can be measured. This is just a fact no matter what anyone says. The antenna is fantastic, it gets and keeps calls at lower signal readings than any other phone. As long as you keep your fingers off the antenna, it drops less calls than any other phone. The reception is better, and the range at which it operates is larger than the other phones.
I can't wait to get one.
=============
On another note (not in reply to the quote above):
People should just get used to the fact that Apple won this round and get on with their lives. Those that believe that Apple is somehow lying or dissembling about the facts they presented today are basically nutcases. One has to believe that they all got up there and lied, and that's just not credible at all. The CEO and all the top guys (who have a lawsuit against them on the issue no less), are going to get up on stage and lie about this stuff? Seriously?
I like this quote from Jobs to a reporter after the conference, I think it really illustrates what happened here:
(talking about the tech bloggers) ... "In search of eyeballs, people don?t care what they leave in their wake. ? in 34 years haven?t we earned trust and get benefit of the doubt? I am not saying we are not at fault. We are not just innocents in this."
This really sums it up for me. Apple has almost never done the kind of nefarious junk that other companies do every day, yet they get pilloried in the press over and over again. How many times does the tech press have to ascribe nasty motives to Apple and Jobs and be proven totally wrong, before they actually give these guys the benefit of the doubt once or twice?
Apple has always been a great company IMO. Why do we always (well not me but most folks), seem to assume they are lying, conniving, money-grubbing egomaniacs? There has never been any evidence that Apple is like that or that Steve jobs is like that. So why do all the tech bloggers seem to jump to that conclusion? Why do half the posters on this forum immediately look to the dark side of every comment out of Cupertino?
I say we should give these hard-working geniuses the benefit of the doubt and enjoy the wonderful phone that three years ago you wouldn't even have dreamed of. Maybe (shock!) even send Steve Jobs a thank you card once in a while.
But how hard is it to work around that? The issue, the flaw. It seems so trivial. Not ideal from a new 'masterpiece' but if that is what it is and you (as in one) love it seems like such a non issue to beat. I hate cases and bumpers but I still intend to shield the 'offending area' if it proves troublesome. But I sure as hell wont blog about or even denounce Apple on these forums. That'll just take too long. Fixing is trivial, isn't it?
I have a case on my iPhone 4. The first case I bought for a phone. Because I had many dropped calls on my iPhone 4. I had more dropped calls on my iPhone 4 in a few days then I had in 2 years of owning a iPhone 3G & 3GS. And I don't want to consciously always have to think about how to hold the phone differently then what comes naturally. I also used the speedtest.app and was shocked to see how dramatic the download/upload speed changes if I touched the seam in less then idea reception areas. The case fixes the issue, no doubt. And actually I don't mind the case now. I just don't like the way Apple is spinning and dancing around the issue. I think they should be more forthcoming of the issue, and stop pointing fingers at other phones. Because other phones do not have the issue as bad as the iPhone 4. Nor do the other phones have the critical spot in an area so easily touched by naturally holding the phone.
Apple bragged about how much testing they used when developing the iPhone 4. I'm surprised they didn't see this issue a long time ago with all that testing. Seems like they try to have it both ways. They say they do extensive testing in high tech labs, but yet they say they didn't see this issue.
Dawn of the old web standards and usher in the new great 5....
Cheers
Cheers
Cheers