You were supposed to prove my numbers wrong... You havn't done that. And you don't even answer half of my arguments...
I'm trying to find an essay written by peace activist Johan Galtung about the issues we were discussing. I'll hopefully post it shortly when I find it...
Are you gonna keep your part of the deal, or are you gonna pull a Sharon on me?
I kept my part of the deal. And don't slander Sharon. He's an honorable person who kept his word when he has given his word - even though I wish he?d not given his word on some issues. You might not like his views, but that's no reason to try to call him a liar.
Also, you might want to look at yourself a little more critically. It was interesting to watch your behavior here when cuss was around. Your silence concerning the document linking Arafat and the terror cell under his protection, and your outrage when Israel responded with force to the ceaseless murder and shredding of its citizens by those terror cells speaks volumes.
PC Killa, what Arab country has a Mossad listening post? Oman? Qatar, UAE, Barain, and Kuwait would be other guesses, but I still think Oman. I could add Jordon to that list, but they don't have a secret relationship, mainly just an overt one. They have good relations with Turkey also, but that is not Arab.
I also hear that Israel bases some of their subs in Oman (the ones that carry some of Israel's nuclear deterent.)
I havn't found the essay yet, but here are some short extracts from another article:
[quote]To draw exact borders, each community can join the side its voters prefer, the process used in 1920 to define the Danish-German border. <hr></blockquote>
[quote] At a 1995 meeting with the incoming
President of Ecuador, Johan Galtung suggested to make the disputed border territory, over which Ecuador and Peru have fought four wars since 1941, into a "binational zone with a natural park." The president was at first skeptical, but did propose it to Peru, which accepted it with minor modifications. Now they have a peace treaty.Â* <hr></blockquote>
These are very "ideal" examples. Most peacedeals involving "giving back"/redestributing land are less colorful...
[quote]I'll give you the exact numbers if those are so important to you.<hr></blockquote>
You gave me an Israeli population statistic, that has nothing to do with the population in the whole area (palestine) And that said nothing to back your claims that my numbers were wrong...
PC Killa, what Arab country has a Mossad listening post?
I?ll give you another hint, but that?s it. The information is out there if you look for it hard enough. But that?s not the hint. All I can say is that you still haven?t found it. I?m not very good at being cryptic.
quote:
And BTW, Sharon is a war criminal...
So is everyone else according to your rules and definition.
quote:
And that said nothing to back your claims that my numbers were wrong...
Ahh?!? Where are the references to your numbers? Your Jewish historian did provide you with some references, right?
quote:
listen, i'm just doing this for perverted reasons.... and not the ones yer thinking of... I wanna watch NEW and PC Killa have make-up sex...
So is everyone else according to your rules and definition. <hr></blockquote>
No, just Sharon... Want my "FACTS"?
[quote] Where are the references to your numbers? Your Jewish historian did provide you with some references, right? <hr></blockquote>
Why don't you do your job and prove me wrong...
well since you can't / won't, heres the sources:
Sources: The numbers in this table are estimates constructed from the following: Yehoshua Ben-Arieh, "The Population of the Large Towns in Palestine During the First Eighty Years of the Nineteenth Century, According to Western Sources" in Moshe Ma'oz, ed. Studies on Palestine during the Ottoman Period, Magnus, 1975; Alexander Scholch, "The Demographic Development of Palestine 1850-1882", International Journal of Middle East Studies, XII, 4, November 1985, pp. 485-505; "Palestine", Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edn, 1911; "Palestine", Encyclopedia of Islam, 1964; UN Document A/AC 14/32, 11 November 1947, p.304; Justin McCarthy, "The Population of Ottoman Syria and Iraq, 1878-1914", Asian and African Studies, XV, 1 March 1981; Kemal Karpat, "Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893", International Journal of Middle East Studies, XCI, 2, 1978; Bill Farell, "Review of Joan Peters", 'From Time Immemorial', Journal of Palestine Studies, 53, Fall 1984, pp. 126-34; Walid Khalidi, From Heaven to Conquest: Readings in Zionism and the Palestine Problem until 1948, Institute for Palestine Studies, 1971 appendix I; Janet L. Abu Lughod, "The Demographic Transformation of Palestine", in Ibrahim Abu Lughod, ed., The Transformation of Palestine: Essays on the Origin and Development of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Northwestern University Press, 1971 pp. 139-63.
And no, I didn't read all those books myself... I copied the the whole thing... just for the records...
Lebanese security officials, speaking in southern Lebanon on condition of anonymity, said Hezbollah guerrillas attacked three Israeli army outposts in the hills of Chebaa Farms with about a dozen rockets. <cm-bd>¶
\tIsraeli fighter jets then struck, firing about a dozen air-to-surface missiles in six runs on locations where guerrillas were believed to be taking cover or on the move near the towns of Chebaa and Kfar Chouba, witnesses said. <cm-bd>¶
\tThe Israeli army also responded with automatic rifle, tank and artillery fire. <cm-bd>¶
\tLate Wednesday, the jets returned to fire four more missiles after guerrillas expanded the rocketing of Israeli positions, including the radar monitoring station on Mt. Hermon above the Chebaa Farms area. Israel also expanded its action, with a nighttime strike targeting an area three miles inside Lebanon. <cm-bd>¶
\tHezbollah said in a statement that its fighters were engaged in “fierce confrontations” with six Israeli positions in the Chebaa Farms area, “scoring definite hits among enemy ranks.” In Jerusalem, the Israeli army reported that one Israeli soldier was moderately wounded in the attack. <cm-bd>¶
\tEarlier Wednesday, guerrillas exchanged mortar fire for a second day with the Israelis. Timur Goksel, spokesman for a U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon, warned there was a danger “restrained” skirmishes could get out of control. <cm-bd>¶
\tIncreased exchanges in the past week have raised the possibility of wider Arab-Israeli clashes outside the Palestinian territories where intense Israeli military operations are under way following a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings. <cm-bd>¶
\tA Hezbollah statement said a member “who was martyred performing his duty of jihad,” or holy war, was being buried Wednesday. About 1,500 people attended his funeral in eastern Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley, where some said he had died during Tuesday’s fighting. <cm-bd>¶
\tIsraeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has warned Hezbollah and Syria, which Israel says controls the guerrillas, that they are “not immune” from Israeli retaliation. <cm-bd>¶
\tHezbollah, which fought Israeli troops in southern Lebanon for 18 years until their May 2000 withdrawal, issued its own warning Wednesday to Israel against targeting Lebanon. <cm-bd>¶
He's the only war criminal? I find that hard to beleive. But if he is a war criminal the Arafat is the king of war criminals. Times ten. To the ninth power.
[quote] He's the only war criminal? I find that hard to beleive. But if he is a war criminal the Arafat is the king of war criminals. Times ten. To the ninth power. <hr></blockquote>
I didn't say that. I said my statement was only targeted at Sharon. Not "everybody else". Read the thread before you respond...
[quote]Blah, blah, blah?<hr></blockquote>
Yes, I admit it, Those sources seem like trash compared to yours...
ok, I couldn't find the essay, so here are just five quick examples of how control over land is changed as part of peacedeals/conflict resolutions. I chose some rater well-known conflicts from very different parts of the world and the century:
1. The indian Independence (1947) the crown example... Gandhi the "one-man boundary force" organizes a non-violent movement the physically loses ever "battle" but wins the "war".
2. The Norwegian and Swedish Union splits (1905) the "poster child" of conflict resolution. A strong Norwegian millitary build-up leads to a split of the Swedish-dominated union (Norway was originally given to Sweden at the Kiel peace, after the Napolen war) . Norway gains its independence but has to reduce its millitary force... Some "historically" juicy parts of Norway are now parts of Sweden and Denmark.
3. South Africa. (1993) Peacedeal between NP (de Klerks National Party) and ANC (Mandelas African National Congress), (previously labeled a terrorist organisation). If this is a real "redistribution of land" can be discussed. But at least it is a "redistribution of power over land". DeKlerk and Mandela recieved the Nobel price for this. And that Price inspired giving the Nobel price to the peacebrokers in Northern Ireland and Rabin/Perez/Arafat. But these two last peacedeals haven't been as successfull as the South African...
4. East Timor. (1999) A UN overseen vote for separation from Indonesia was first met with an increased millitary presence and Violence against the people by local millitas. But international pressur led to the ratification of the vote by Indonesia, and the implementation of an Australian led UN peaceforce to protect the civilian population.
5. Ecuador/Peru. (1995) Since its getting late, since the deal is almost to good to be true, and since we need a good example from South America, I'll just copy something I posted earlier:
At a 1995 meeting with the incoming President of Ecuador, Johan Galtung suggested to make the disputed border territory, over which Ecuador and Peru have fought four wars since 1941, into a "binational zone with a natural park." The president was at first skeptical, but did propose it to Peru, which accepted it with minor modifications. Now they have a peace treaty.
In the 4 first examples the "weaker part", having won nothing in war, is given "control over land" as a way to end a conflict...
BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) — Israeli tanks rolled into the West Bank’s largest city, Nablus, on Wednesday and other troops laid siege to a refugee camp, battling Palestinians who barricaded entrances and fought back with bombs and guns. Soldiers also encircled Palestinian gunmen holed up in the church marking Jesus’ birthplace. <cm-bd>¶
Twelve Palestinians and an Israeli soldier were killed on the sixth day of Israel’s offensive aimed at crushing Palestinian militias and stopping terror attacks on Israeli civilians. <cm-bd>¶
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon convened Cabinet ministers to approve the next stage of the open-ended “Operation Protective Wall.” Only two major West Bank towns — Hebron and Jericho — were still under Palestinian control late Wednesday. <cm-bd>¶
In the town of Ramallah, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat remained a prisoner of Israel, confined to a few rooms in his former headquarters. Raanan Gissin, a Sharon adviser, said Arafat “won’t communicate (with the outside world) until ... we see he is no longer a threat and not instigating terrorism.” <cm-bd>¶
Arafat, who is accompanied by about 300 people, including aides, security guards and several dozen foreign volunteers, still has use of a mobile phone. Israel insists it is trying to keep him relatively comfortable. <cm-bd>¶
On Wednesday, the Israeli military released a detailed list of supplies shipped to Arafat and his entourage that day, including 66 packages of yellow cheese, 55 cans of sardines, 34 cases of mineral water, 145 pounds of coffee and packages of pain killers. <cm-bd>¶
In Jordan, Arafat’s neurologist said his medical checkup is four months overdue, but that the 72-year-old leader seemed in good spirits when the two spoke by phone over the weekend. <cm-bd>¶
President Bush repeated his support for the Israeli assault. “He understands and respects Israel’s right to defend herself,” White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said. <cm-bd>¶
Secretary of State Colin Powell said he was weighing a meeting with Israeli and Arab leaders during a trip to Europe next week. <cm-bd>¶
“My mind is open,” Powell told reporters at the State Department. “We are examining all possibilities. I would not rule out meeting with anybody where it would serve a useful purpose.” <cm-bd>¶
U.S. special envoy Anthony Zinni remains in the region striving to implement a truce plan authored last June by CIA chief George Tenet. The U.S. Embassy hasn’t released any information on his activities in recent days, and no meetings were scheduled with either Israelis or Palestinians. <cm-bd>¶
But daily anti-Israeli protests in the Arab world grew more violent. Thousands of Lebanese and Palestinians clashed with security forces Wednesday outside the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, with at least 25 reported injured as protesters threw stones and security forces used tear gas and water cannons. <cm-bd>¶
Under pressure to cut off ties completely with Israel, Egypt took a more limited step Wednesday, announcing it would suspend all diplomatic contacts with Israel except those aimed at helping the Palestinians. <cm-bd>¶
In five major Palestinian towns under full Israeli control — Ramallah, Qalqiliya, Jenin, Tulkarem and Bethlehem — tanks patrolled streets, enforcing strict curfews that confined hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to their homes. In Ramallah, residents were without water after city officials said Israeli troops destroyed the main pumping station when shelling a Palestinian security compound. <cm-bd>¶
The incursion into Nablus — a city of more than 100,000 people in the northern West Bank — began Wednesday evening. Shellfire thundered as tanks began rolling into the city. Gunmen and Palestinian police were moving in the streets, closing roads with sandbags and planting mines. <cm-bd>¶
A Palestinian woman was killed and five people wounded, apparently when shells hit two apartments in downtown Nablus. <cm-bd>¶
Fighting was heaviest Wednesday in Jenin, a militant stronghold north of Nablus that Israel has invaded six times before in the past 18 months of fighting. <cm-bd>¶
Dozens of tanks entered Jenin and surrounded the adjacent refugee camp early Wednesday. Helicopters and tanks fired machine guns at gunmen who hurled grenades and fired from assault rifles. Five people, including a militia leader, a nurse and a 13-year-old boy, were killed in the fighting. An Israeli officer was also killed. <cm-bd>¶
Armed men in the camp had prepared large amounts of homemade grenades and bombs and built barricades to make it harder for Israeli tanks to enter. Militiamen claimed they damaged tracks of six tanks. <cm-bd>¶
Ali Safouri, a militia leader, said he and his men felt that, judging by Israel’s tough sweep through Ramallah, this was their last stand. He said they were trying to make every bullet count. “We use it for sniping only, we are not shooting in all directions,” Safouri said by telephone. <cm-bd>¶
In biblical Bethlehem, just south of Jerusalem, Israeli and Palestinian officials failed to resolve a standoff at the Church of the Nativity, built over the site where tradition says Jesus was born and one of Christianity’s major shrines. <cm-bd>¶
About 300 Palestinians, nearly all of them armed, have been holed up in the shrine since Tuesday, running from Israeli forces after hours of heavy gun battles near the church and adjacent Manger Square. <cm-bd>¶
Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer said Israel did not intend to break into the church, but army officials said those inside would not be allowed to go free. Five Italian journalists and an Armenian colleague, who had been trapped in the church compound by the fighting, were evacuated Wednesday. <cm-bd>¶
One of the Italian journalists, RAI TV correspondent Marc Innaro, said the gunmen “were very determined, not nervous, tired also, but not willing at all to surrender.” <cm-bd>¶
More than a dozen leaders of Christian churches in the Holy Land, including Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah, tried to reach Bethlehem on Wednesday, but were turned away at an Israeli military checkpoint. <cm-bd>¶
Several dozen Palestinians, including some who were armed, also sought sanctuary at St. Mary’s, a Roman Catholic convent near Manger Square. At one point Wednesday, a priest and seven nuns emerged from the convent, but by then the gunmen had slipped out the back, the army said. The Israeli army spokesman, Brig. Gen. Ron Kitrey, said the bound body of Palestinian man wearing a camouflage jacket was found in the building, and that the circumstance of his death were not immediately clear. <cm-bd>¶
The bodies of five more Palestinians, including at least two gunmen, were found elsewhere in Bethlehem. One of the corpses was discovered in a mosque that witnesses said had been damaged by an Israeli tank shell. <cm-bd>¶
The journalists trapped near the Church of the Nativity and several other foreigners staying at the Bethlehem Star Hotel, near Manger Square, were evacuated by security officials Wednesday and driven to safety in a convoy of five armored vehicles. Witnesses said U.S. Marines aided in the evacuation. <cm-bd>¶
Wearing flak jackets and sidearms, the U.S. officers rushed into the hotel and used a loudspeaker to call the foreigners to come out. The forces were equipped with a list of the people they were to evacuate, witnesses said. The names of the 15 or so evacuees, including Americans and Britons, were not immediately available. <cm-bd>¶
Ok. Fair enough. Obviously I?m not familiar with any of these cases. I?m gonna pick a couple to study and get back to you on these. Although, I was hoping for more details in each specific case, I understand it?s late. Maybe we can learn something from these.
Comments
I'm trying to find an essay written by peace activist Johan Galtung about the issues we were discussing. I'll hopefully post it shortly when I find it...
Are you gonna keep your part of the deal, or are you gonna pull a Sharon on me?
Also, you might want to look at yourself a little more critically. It was interesting to watch your behavior here when cuss was around. Your silence concerning the document linking Arafat and the terror cell under his protection, and your outrage when Israel responded with force to the ceaseless murder and shredding of its citizens by those terror cells speaks volumes.
mika.
snuggles,
cuss
PC Killa, what Arab country has a Mossad listening post? Oman? Qatar, UAE, Barain, and Kuwait would be other guesses, but I still think Oman. I could add Jordon to that list, but they don't have a secret relationship, mainly just an overt one. They have good relations with Turkey also, but that is not Arab.
I also hear that Israel bases some of their subs in Oman (the ones that carry some of Israel's nuclear deterent.)
So which state is it?
[quote]To draw exact borders, each community can join the side its voters prefer, the process used in 1920 to define the Danish-German border. <hr></blockquote>
[quote] At a 1995 meeting with the incoming
President of Ecuador, Johan Galtung suggested to make the disputed border territory, over which Ecuador and Peru have fought four wars since 1941, into a "binational zone with a natural park." The president was at first skeptical, but did propose it to Peru, which accepted it with minor modifications. Now they have a peace treaty.Â* <hr></blockquote>
These are very "ideal" examples. Most peacedeals involving "giving back"/redestributing land are less colorful...
More on the way.
You gave me an Israeli population statistic, that has nothing to do with the population in the whole area (palestine) And that said nothing to back your claims that my numbers were wrong...
And BTW, Sharon is a war criminal...
listen, i'm just doing this for perverted reasons.... and not the ones yer thinking of... I wanna watch NEW and PC Killa have make-up sex...
love and hand grenades,
cuss
PC Killa, what Arab country has a Mossad listening post?
I?ll give you another hint, but that?s it. The information is out there if you look for it hard enough. But that?s not the hint. All I can say is that you still haven?t found it. I?m not very good at being cryptic.
quote:
And BTW, Sharon is a war criminal...
So is everyone else according to your rules and definition.
quote:
And that said nothing to back your claims that my numbers were wrong...
Ahh?!? Where are the references to your numbers? Your Jewish historian did provide you with some references, right?
quote:
listen, i'm just doing this for perverted reasons.... and not the ones yer thinking of... I wanna watch NEW and PC Killa have make-up sex...
love and hand grenades,
cuss
Well, he does have a good sense of humor?
Mika.
you forgot yer queer-ass emoticons.
lover, not a fighter,
cuss
So is everyone else according to your rules and definition. <hr></blockquote>
No, just Sharon... Want my "FACTS"?
[quote] Where are the references to your numbers? Your Jewish historian did provide you with some references, right? <hr></blockquote>
Why don't you do your job and prove me wrong...
well since you can't / won't, heres the sources:
Sources: The numbers in this table are estimates constructed from the following: Yehoshua Ben-Arieh, "The Population of the Large Towns in Palestine During the First Eighty Years of the Nineteenth Century, According to Western Sources" in Moshe Ma'oz, ed. Studies on Palestine during the Ottoman Period, Magnus, 1975; Alexander Scholch, "The Demographic Development of Palestine 1850-1882", International Journal of Middle East Studies, XII, 4, November 1985, pp. 485-505; "Palestine", Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edn, 1911; "Palestine", Encyclopedia of Islam, 1964; UN Document A/AC 14/32, 11 November 1947, p.304; Justin McCarthy, "The Population of Ottoman Syria and Iraq, 1878-1914", Asian and African Studies, XV, 1 March 1981; Kemal Karpat, "Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893", International Journal of Middle East Studies, XCI, 2, 1978; Bill Farell, "Review of Joan Peters", 'From Time Immemorial', Journal of Palestine Studies, 53, Fall 1984, pp. 126-34; Walid Khalidi, From Heaven to Conquest: Readings in Zionism and the Palestine Problem until 1948, Institute for Palestine Studies, 1971 appendix I; Janet L. Abu Lughod, "The Demographic Transformation of Palestine", in Ibrahim Abu Lughod, ed., The Transformation of Palestine: Essays on the Origin and Development of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Northwestern University Press, 1971 pp. 139-63.
And no, I didn't read all those books myself... I copied the the whole thing... just for the records...
\tIsraeli fighter jets then struck, firing about a dozen air-to-surface missiles in six runs on locations where guerrillas were believed to be taking cover or on the move near the towns of Chebaa and Kfar Chouba, witnesses said. <cm-bd>¶
\tThe Israeli army also responded with automatic rifle, tank and artillery fire. <cm-bd>¶
\tLate Wednesday, the jets returned to fire four more missiles after guerrillas expanded the rocketing of Israeli positions, including the radar monitoring station on Mt. Hermon above the Chebaa Farms area. Israel also expanded its action, with a nighttime strike targeting an area three miles inside Lebanon. <cm-bd>¶
\tHezbollah said in a statement that its fighters were engaged in “fierce confrontations” with six Israeli positions in the Chebaa Farms area, “scoring definite hits among enemy ranks.” In Jerusalem, the Israeli army reported that one Israeli soldier was moderately wounded in the attack. <cm-bd>¶
\tEarlier Wednesday, guerrillas exchanged mortar fire for a second day with the Israelis. Timur Goksel, spokesman for a U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon, warned there was a danger “restrained” skirmishes could get out of control. <cm-bd>¶
\tIncreased exchanges in the past week have raised the possibility of wider Arab-Israeli clashes outside the Palestinian territories where intense Israeli military operations are under way following a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings. <cm-bd>¶
\tA Hezbollah statement said a member “who was martyred performing his duty of jihad,” or holy war, was being buried Wednesday. About 1,500 people attended his funeral in eastern Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley, where some said he had died during Tuesday’s fighting. <cm-bd>¶
\tIsraeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has warned Hezbollah and Syria, which Israel says controls the guerrillas, that they are “not immune” from Israeli retaliation. <cm-bd>¶
\tHezbollah, which fought Israeli troops in southern Lebanon for 18 years until their May 2000 withdrawal, issued its own warning Wednesday to Israel against targeting Lebanon. <cm-bd>¶
He's the only war criminal? I find that hard to beleive. But if he is a war criminal the Arafat is the king of war criminals. Times ten. To the ninth power.
No, just Sharon
Right. You would defend Arafat in court against charges of war crimes. But what would you plead? Insanity?
quote
Sources: The numbers in this table are estimates constructed from the following:
Blah, blah, blah?
The only primary source on your list is the ?Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893?. And that leaves a HUGE gap in the numbers.
quote:
you forgot yer queer-ass emoticons.
lover, not a fighter
cuss
Yes. We know cuss. Just don't tell the sheep that.
mika.
[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
I didn't say that. I said my statement was only targeted at Sharon. Not "everybody else". Read the thread before you respond...
[quote]Blah, blah, blah?<hr></blockquote>
Yes, I admit it, Those sources seem like trash compared to yours...
1. The indian Independence (1947) the crown example... Gandhi the "one-man boundary force" organizes a non-violent movement the physically loses ever "battle" but wins the "war".
2. The Norwegian and Swedish Union splits (1905) the "poster child" of conflict resolution. A strong Norwegian millitary build-up leads to a split of the Swedish-dominated union (Norway was originally given to Sweden at the Kiel peace, after the Napolen war) . Norway gains its independence but has to reduce its millitary force... Some "historically" juicy parts of Norway are now parts of Sweden and Denmark.
3. South Africa. (1993) Peacedeal between NP (de Klerks National Party) and ANC (Mandelas African National Congress), (previously labeled a terrorist organisation). If this is a real "redistribution of land" can be discussed. But at least it is a "redistribution of power over land". DeKlerk and Mandela recieved the Nobel price for this. And that Price inspired giving the Nobel price to the peacebrokers in Northern Ireland and Rabin/Perez/Arafat. But these two last peacedeals haven't been as successfull as the South African...
4. East Timor. (1999) A UN overseen vote for separation from Indonesia was first met with an increased millitary presence and Violence against the people by local millitas. But international pressur led to the ratification of the vote by Indonesia, and the implementation of an Australian led UN peaceforce to protect the civilian population.
5. Ecuador/Peru. (1995) Since its getting late, since the deal is almost to good to be true, and since we need a good example from South America, I'll just copy something I posted earlier:
At a 1995 meeting with the incoming President of Ecuador, Johan Galtung suggested to make the disputed border territory, over which Ecuador and Peru have fought four wars since 1941, into a "binational zone with a natural park." The president was at first skeptical, but did propose it to Peru, which accepted it with minor modifications. Now they have a peace treaty.
In the 4 first examples the "weaker part", having won nothing in war, is given "control over land" as a way to end a conflict...
BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) — Israeli tanks rolled into the West Bank’s largest city, Nablus, on Wednesday and other troops laid siege to a refugee camp, battling Palestinians who barricaded entrances and fought back with bombs and guns. Soldiers also encircled Palestinian gunmen holed up in the church marking Jesus’ birthplace. <cm-bd>¶
Twelve Palestinians and an Israeli soldier were killed on the sixth day of Israel’s offensive aimed at crushing Palestinian militias and stopping terror attacks on Israeli civilians. <cm-bd>¶
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon convened Cabinet ministers to approve the next stage of the open-ended “Operation Protective Wall.” Only two major West Bank towns — Hebron and Jericho — were still under Palestinian control late Wednesday. <cm-bd>¶
In the town of Ramallah, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat remained a prisoner of Israel, confined to a few rooms in his former headquarters. Raanan Gissin, a Sharon adviser, said Arafat “won’t communicate (with the outside world) until ... we see he is no longer a threat and not instigating terrorism.” <cm-bd>¶
Arafat, who is accompanied by about 300 people, including aides, security guards and several dozen foreign volunteers, still has use of a mobile phone. Israel insists it is trying to keep him relatively comfortable. <cm-bd>¶
On Wednesday, the Israeli military released a detailed list of supplies shipped to Arafat and his entourage that day, including 66 packages of yellow cheese, 55 cans of sardines, 34 cases of mineral water, 145 pounds of coffee and packages of pain killers. <cm-bd>¶
In Jordan, Arafat’s neurologist said his medical checkup is four months overdue, but that the 72-year-old leader seemed in good spirits when the two spoke by phone over the weekend. <cm-bd>¶
President Bush repeated his support for the Israeli assault. “He understands and respects Israel’s right to defend herself,” White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said. <cm-bd>¶
Secretary of State Colin Powell said he was weighing a meeting with Israeli and Arab leaders during a trip to Europe next week. <cm-bd>¶
“My mind is open,” Powell told reporters at the State Department. “We are examining all possibilities. I would not rule out meeting with anybody where it would serve a useful purpose.” <cm-bd>¶
U.S. special envoy Anthony Zinni remains in the region striving to implement a truce plan authored last June by CIA chief George Tenet. The U.S. Embassy hasn’t released any information on his activities in recent days, and no meetings were scheduled with either Israelis or Palestinians. <cm-bd>¶
But daily anti-Israeli protests in the Arab world grew more violent. Thousands of Lebanese and Palestinians clashed with security forces Wednesday outside the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, with at least 25 reported injured as protesters threw stones and security forces used tear gas and water cannons. <cm-bd>¶
Under pressure to cut off ties completely with Israel, Egypt took a more limited step Wednesday, announcing it would suspend all diplomatic contacts with Israel except those aimed at helping the Palestinians. <cm-bd>¶
In five major Palestinian towns under full Israeli control — Ramallah, Qalqiliya, Jenin, Tulkarem and Bethlehem — tanks patrolled streets, enforcing strict curfews that confined hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to their homes. In Ramallah, residents were without water after city officials said Israeli troops destroyed the main pumping station when shelling a Palestinian security compound. <cm-bd>¶
The incursion into Nablus — a city of more than 100,000 people in the northern West Bank — began Wednesday evening. Shellfire thundered as tanks began rolling into the city. Gunmen and Palestinian police were moving in the streets, closing roads with sandbags and planting mines. <cm-bd>¶
A Palestinian woman was killed and five people wounded, apparently when shells hit two apartments in downtown Nablus. <cm-bd>¶
Fighting was heaviest Wednesday in Jenin, a militant stronghold north of Nablus that Israel has invaded six times before in the past 18 months of fighting. <cm-bd>¶
Dozens of tanks entered Jenin and surrounded the adjacent refugee camp early Wednesday. Helicopters and tanks fired machine guns at gunmen who hurled grenades and fired from assault rifles. Five people, including a militia leader, a nurse and a 13-year-old boy, were killed in the fighting. An Israeli officer was also killed. <cm-bd>¶
Armed men in the camp had prepared large amounts of homemade grenades and bombs and built barricades to make it harder for Israeli tanks to enter. Militiamen claimed they damaged tracks of six tanks. <cm-bd>¶
Ali Safouri, a militia leader, said he and his men felt that, judging by Israel’s tough sweep through Ramallah, this was their last stand. He said they were trying to make every bullet count. “We use it for sniping only, we are not shooting in all directions,” Safouri said by telephone. <cm-bd>¶
In biblical Bethlehem, just south of Jerusalem, Israeli and Palestinian officials failed to resolve a standoff at the Church of the Nativity, built over the site where tradition says Jesus was born and one of Christianity’s major shrines. <cm-bd>¶
About 300 Palestinians, nearly all of them armed, have been holed up in the shrine since Tuesday, running from Israeli forces after hours of heavy gun battles near the church and adjacent Manger Square. <cm-bd>¶
Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer said Israel did not intend to break into the church, but army officials said those inside would not be allowed to go free. Five Italian journalists and an Armenian colleague, who had been trapped in the church compound by the fighting, were evacuated Wednesday. <cm-bd>¶
One of the Italian journalists, RAI TV correspondent Marc Innaro, said the gunmen “were very determined, not nervous, tired also, but not willing at all to surrender.” <cm-bd>¶
More than a dozen leaders of Christian churches in the Holy Land, including Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah, tried to reach Bethlehem on Wednesday, but were turned away at an Israeli military checkpoint. <cm-bd>¶
Several dozen Palestinians, including some who were armed, also sought sanctuary at St. Mary’s, a Roman Catholic convent near Manger Square. At one point Wednesday, a priest and seven nuns emerged from the convent, but by then the gunmen had slipped out the back, the army said. The Israeli army spokesman, Brig. Gen. Ron Kitrey, said the bound body of Palestinian man wearing a camouflage jacket was found in the building, and that the circumstance of his death were not immediately clear. <cm-bd>¶
The bodies of five more Palestinians, including at least two gunmen, were found elsewhere in Bethlehem. One of the corpses was discovered in a mosque that witnesses said had been damaged by an Israeli tank shell. <cm-bd>¶
The journalists trapped near the Church of the Nativity and several other foreigners staying at the Bethlehem Star Hotel, near Manger Square, were evacuated by security officials Wednesday and driven to safety in a convoy of five armored vehicles. Witnesses said U.S. Marines aided in the evacuation. <cm-bd>¶
Wearing flak jackets and sidearms, the U.S. officers rushed into the hotel and used a loudspeaker to call the foreigners to come out. The forces were equipped with a list of the people they were to evacuate, witnesses said. The names of the 15 or so evacuees, including Americans and Britons, were not immediately available. <cm-bd>¶
mika.
and goodnight,
cuss