Apple's share of U.S. PC market cracks the 10% barrier

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  • Reply 121 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Reporting purposes such as what? The article relates to the sales of a specific subcategory of computers knowns as PCs, not to "computers" broadly. Perhaps the posters here who object to the iPad being called a "computer" are really objecting to it being called a "personal computer." Hard to say, but I'd challenge that assertion too.



    I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I neither object to nor agree with calling the iPad a "personal" computer, but if you (general you, not you specifically) want to include it in these sales graphs, then where do you stop?



    To those who consider the iPad a personal computer: If size is the determining factor (because I think most people will agree that a smartphone is not a "PC"), then what size? Or is it something else?
  • Reply 122 of 148
    I've been a PC/Windows guy FOREVER, and am a software developer. But Windows has gotten incredibly slower over the past couple of years and versions, so despite incredible advances in hardware, basic tasks take much longer on my new, very expensive 8-proc desktop running Win7 versus my 8 year old single-proc PC running Windows 2000.



    On top of that, Microsoft seems to come up with an entirely new user interface in all of its products every couple of releases, so you have to learn everything you used to be able to do from scratch.



    The old argument that used to keep me on Windows machines is fading: it's NOT going to be tough to switch over and learn to use a Mac. The UI is easy in the first place, and in the second, Microsoft is going to make me learn it all over in 2 years anyway!



    Apple's earned its increased market share, and Microsoft surely deserves to lose theirs.
  • Reply 123 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Reporting purposes such as what? The article relates to the sales of a specific subcategory of computers knowns as PCs, not to "computers" broadly. Perhaps the posters here who object to the iPad being called a "computer" are really objecting to it being called a "personal computer." Hard to say, but I'd challenge that assertion too.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I neither object to nor agree with calling the iPad a "personal" computer, but if you (general you, not you specifically) want to include it in these sales graphs, then where do you stop?



    To those who consider the iPad a personal computer: If size is the determining factor (because I think most people will agree that a smartphone is not a "PC"), then what size? Or is it something else?



    That is exactly what I and others have been trying to say and oddly getting jumped on for it.



    These analysts are using the well set idea of what a PC is, and they have a right to define it as such and they need to draw the line somewhere.



    Is a modern feature phone a smartphone just because it?s smarter than the first smartphones to be given that title?



    Is a netbook note a notebook? What defines it as a netbook: the shrunken keyboard a maximum display size, the price, or the processor type? They certainly exist because of the Atom processor just as the iPad and the success of the tablet market now exist because of the advancement of ARM processors and the use of a mobile OS foundation over a classic Desktop OS.



    I scratch my head at the people that get upset that aren?t so much upset by the lack of inclusion but by the term PC not allowing it to be included after they ignorantly analyze the separate definitions of the word and it?s origins as if language works that way and meanings don?t evolve.
  • Reply 124 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I neither object to nor agree with calling the iPad a "personal" computer, but if you (general you, not you specifically) want to include it in these sales graphs, then where do you stop?



    To those who consider the iPad a personal computer: If size is the determining factor (because I think most people will agree that a smartphone is not a "PC"), then what size? Or is it something else?



    What I take away from the success of the iPad is that these categories are are rapidly becoming irrelevant, and high time it is too. Lest we forget, the entire "PC" category is arbitrary, named and defined by a hardware platform developed by IBM nearly thirty years ago. How much should such an ancient technology definition matter today?
  • Reply 125 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    What I take away from the success of the iPad is that these categories are are rapidly becoming irrelevant, and high time it is too. Lest we forget, the entire "PC" category is arbitrary, named and defined by a hardware platform developed by IBM nearly thirty years ago. How much should such an ancient technology definition matter today?



    Categories get consolidated or enlarged. Terms evolve or they simply vanish but a new category will take its place. We group everything. It?s at least in our culture and possibly in our nature.



    A few changes in my lifetime: Brontosaurus no longer exists. Homo neandertalensis is now Homo sapiens neandertalensis. Pluto is now a dwarf planet.
  • Reply 126 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Categories get consolidated or enlarged. Terms evolve or they simply vanish but a new category will take its place. We group everything. It?s at least in our culture and possibly in our nature.



    A few changes in my lifetime: Brontosaurus no longer exists. Homo neandertalensis is now Homo sapiens neandertalensis. Pluto is now a dwarf planet.



    And here I thought he was a dog in a Disney cartoon.



    The PC category has been static for a long time, far too long, particularly considering that it's a technology definition that IMO long ago outlived its usefulness. Just look at what an argument it still creates. Is the iPad a PC or is it something else? As if this is really important let alone meaningful. Who the hell cares, and why?
  • Reply 127 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    And here I thought he was a dog in a Disney cartoon.



    The PC category has been static for a long time, far too long, particularly considering that it's a technology definition that IMO long ago outlived its usefulness. Just look at what an argument it still creates. Is the iPad a PC or is it something else? As if this is really important let alone meaningful. Who the hell cares, and why?



    Personally, if one doesn?t count the iPad as a PC then I wouldn?t count the netbook as a PC. Netbooks arose from Intel?s creation of the Atom processor, and while I?m sure some use them as their only computer I doubt many do, and I?m sure the same can be said for the iPad. The difference being that netbooks come with a standard desktop OS, but this has a lot more cons than pros because the HW wasn?t designed work optimally on that device, but I can?t see Acer investing the time and money to create a decent mobile OS, but I can see them popping Android on a future netbook and tablet. Will those netbooks still be PCs? If so then what is the demarkation point; the keyboard?



    How about calling these devices satellite computers* or satellite PCs. That?s how I refer to them because that is how they tend to be used, orbiting larger, more full featured machines.





    PS: The iPhone and iPad have shown us (and probably Apple) that the entire way we desktop OSes are created is, in itself, archaic and poorly contrived. it?s not natural or comfortable for people to use or understand, yet the iPhone and iPad are. I expect to see Apple taking as much of the reduced code from the iOS and ease of use of the UI and apps in an effort to finally move personal computing into a new age.





    * Don?t be an asshat by saying that satellites have computers in them too, so we can?t call them that. You know who you are!
  • Reply 128 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Personally, if one doesn?t count the iPad as a PC then I wouldn?t count the netbook as a PC. Netbooks arose from Intel?s creation of the Atom processor, and while I?m sure some use them as their only computer I doubt many do, and I?m sure the same can be said for the iPad. The difference being that netbooks come with a standard desktop OS, but this has a lot more cons than pros because the HW wasn?t designed work optimally on that device, but I can?t see Acer investing the time and money to create a decent mobile OS, but I can see them popping Android on a future netbook and tablet. Will those netbooks still be PCs? If so then what is the demarkation point; the keyboard?



    How about calling these devices satellite computers* or satellite PCs. That?s how I refer to them because that is how they tend to be used, orbiting larger, more full featured machines.





    PS: The iPhone and iPad have shown us (and probably Apple) that the entire way we desktop OSes are created is, in itself, archaic and poorly contrived. it?s not natural or comfortable for people to use or understand, yet the iPhone and iPad are. I expect to see Apple taking as much of the reduced code from the iOS and ease of use of the UI and apps in an effort to finally move personal computing into a new age.





    * Don?t be an asshat by saying that satellites have computers in them too, so we can?t call them that. You know who you are!



    That's the best exposé of what is (should be) defined as as personal computer.



    .
  • Reply 129 of 148
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Pffft. This is s real computer:







    Those underpowered micro things are just toys. If you want to do real work, get a real computer.
  • Reply 130 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism;


    Categories get consolidated or enlarged. Terms evolve or they simply vanish but a new category will take its place. We group everything. It’s at least in our culture and possibly in our nature.



    A few changes in my lifetime: Brontosaurus no longer exists. Homo neandertalensis is now Homo sapiens neandertalensis. Pluto is now a dwarf planet.



    OMG what happened to Brontosaurus. One of the coolest dinosaurs. Always depicted as though it was stoned on weed or something. Just chillin' all the time, chewing them branches...
  • Reply 131 of 148
    That chair has a pretty sweet design... Damn Ikea, there used to be good furniture.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox;


    Pffft. This is s real computer:







    Those underpowered micro things are just toys. If you want to do real work, get a real computer.



  • Reply 132 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow;


    I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I neither object to nor agree with calling the iPad a "personal" computer, but if you (general you, not you specifically) want to include it in these sales graphs, then where do you stop?



    IT STOPS WHEN WE'VE WON. Wait. I think that's from one of the Bourne movies.
  • Reply 133 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    OMG what happened to Brontosaurus. One of the coolest dinosaurs. Always depicted as though it was stoned on weed or something. Just chillin' all the time, chewing them branches...



    Right? It was my favorite as a kid.
  • Reply 134 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Personally, if one doesn?t count the iPad as a PC then I wouldn?t count the netbook as a PC. Netbooks arose from Intel?s creation of the Atom processor, and while I?m sure some use them as their only computer I doubt many do, and I?m sure the same can be said for the iPad. The difference being that netbooks come with a standard desktop OS, but this has a lot more cons than pros because the HW wasn?t designed work optimally on that device, but I can?t see Acer investing the time and money to create a decent mobile OS, but I can see them popping Android on a future netbook and tablet. Will those netbooks still be PCs? If so then what is the demarkation point; the keyboard?



    Again I ask, who cares about these categories, except for people who get paid to count things? The only reason the entire term "PC" exists is because that's what IBM decided to name their product, and then followed the bizarre events which manifested the name with excess meaning. The entire argument over what is or isn't a PC should have died out 25 years ago.
  • Reply 135 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Again I ask, who cares about these categories, except for people who get paid to count things? The only reason the entire term "PC" exists is because that's what IBM decided to name their product, and then followed the bizarre events which manifested the name with excess meaning. The entire argument over what is or isn't a PC should have died out 25 years ago.



    I pointed this out earlier. All categories are artificial, but they are inherent to the way our species think. You can?t expect everyone to simply stop categorizing when so much of out way of life depends on it.
  • Reply 136 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism;


    The iPhone and iPad have shown us (and probably Apple) that the entire way we desktop OSes are created is, in itself, archaic and poorly contrived. it’s not natural or comfortable for people to use or understand, yet the iPhone and iPad are. I expect to see Apple taking as much of the reduced code from the iOS and ease of use of the UI and apps in an effort to finally move personal computing into a new age.[/SIZE]



    Mate, it's quite bizarre. After iOS, new users and even myself look at things like the OS X Dock and it can seem confusing. The icon is there when it's on or not on, you can remove it from the Dock but it will still be there if it is on. Windows don't maximise fully (this destroys PC switchers, it's quite funny actually). Then there's this thing called the Finder running all the time which you can't quit, nobody really knows what it does. Then, you could have a window open but if it is not the focus then the menu bar still says options for a different program. Forget about the filesystem making any sense to new users, they panic when they don't see the C Drive, get confused about "where are all my files" and do things like throw away the Library folder or System or what not. Drivers are another big thing, every time they connect some new hardware they expect to put in an Install CD. Finally new users to Mac are absolutely obsessed with cleaning up and protecting the "system" - to be fair OS X is too simple, it doesn't reassure people to forget any of this cleanup stuff... Unlike iOS, which just tells you to f*k off by not letting you touch the system at all.



    Far from a critique of OS X, but iOS and the new Mac crowd really have difficulty grasping OS X. Everyone's jumping on the bandwagon but they forgot to pack some brains with them.



    But just like Flash I think, as you mention, the current desktop UI and paradigm has reached its pinnacle.
  • Reply 137 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I pointed this out earlier. All categories are artificial, but they are inherent to the way our species think. You can?t expect everyone to simply stop categorizing when so much of out way of life depends on it.



    I categorize this reply as "vague."



    The message in what I am saying is that the PC is on its way out as a meaningful category, and good riddance to it. I think it's verging on the comical to see people struggling to keep it on life support by trying to decide if every new computing product does or doesn't fit into some ancient and arbitrary category. Reflecting on the picture posted by addabox, I have decided that my iMac is a mainframe, since it's got far more computing power than that room full of old tech. If we're going to be arbitrary, why not?
  • Reply 138 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I categorize this reply as "vague."



    The message in what I am saying is that the PC is on its way out as a meaningful category, and good riddance to it. I think it's verging on the comical to see people struggling to keep it on life support by trying to decide if every new computing product does or doesn't fit into some ancient and arbitrary category. Reflecting on the picture posted by addabox, I have decided that my iMac is a mainframe, since it's got far more computing power than that room full of old tech. If we're going to be arbitrary, why not?



    Of course it’s vague, I was addressing the concept of categorizing based on your vague comment. You are either suggesting that this will or should go away (which doesn’t make sense) or that only computing devices shouldn’t be categorized (which also doesn’t makes sense). If you meant something else I have no idea what that could be.



    The bottom line is that objects and ideas are categorized. Tell me how that will change or why it should change?





    edit: Perhaps you mean the definition of that category is becoming meaningless with the advent of new devices like the iPad. That is not the category itself becoming meaningless as I assure you the category of PC will live on for a very long time, just that the posts have moved and the term needs to be adapted to include these new devices. They did it which the netbook and also created a couple new, synonymous subcategories to differentiate it within that category. This happens all the time and the we adapt to meet these changes in society. Note that the iPad was only released in April. Language may be the only thing that can evolve faster than technology, but even 7 months is a bit fast.
  • Reply 139 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Far from a critique of OS X, but iOS and the new Mac crowd really have difficulty grasping OS X. Everyone's jumping on the bandwagon but they forgot to pack some brains with them ...



    a user interface takes time to learn. my experience with computers started (and remains) on the command line. i've adapted to various GUIs over the years as well (from X Windows on Sun Ultra boxes in the early 1990s to current OSes from Apple, Microsoft and a Linux vendors). and one chief reason i like Mac OS X is my ability to revert to the command line to perform file operations.
  • Reply 140 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Of course it?s vague, I was addressing the concept of categorizing based on your vague comment. You are either suggesting that this will or should go away (which doesn?t make sense) or that only computing devices shouldn?t be categorized (which also doesn?t makes sense). If you meant something else I have no idea what that could be.



    The bottom line is that objects and ideas are categorized. Tell me how that will change or why it should change?





    edit: Perhaps you mean the definition of that category is becoming meaningless with the advent of new devices like the iPad. That is not the category itself becoming meaningless, just that the goal posts have moved and the term needs to be adaptive. This happens all the time and the we adapt to meet these changes in society. Note that the iPad was only released in April. Language may be the only thing that can evolve faster than technology, but even 7 months is a bit fast.



    Well at least you read what I wrote. I wasn't sure the first time. In any case, I wasn't being vague, in fact I was being quite specific. The PC was always an arbitrary category (a brand name run amok), and trying to make these new products fit into it simply doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying it's gone away, not yet obviously -- only that products like the iPad will hasten its long overdue departure as a category into which computing devices must be said to either fit into or not.
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