You seem to be skipping over the issue with your repetition of “it runs on the 1st gen iPhone” with a generalized inferior v. superior ideology, without considering what kind of physics engine is available to these disparate devices or the complexities of the APIs the developer has to work. These can great affect how much processing these devices have to actually do to complete the same task.
huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.
Quote:
I don’t think the answer is as simple as older v. newer.
[/quote]
What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.
The basic point is simple: this is an issue to developers and consumers. Lets not paper over that.
How big is the issue - it depends. If Rovio are blown away by their "sales" on Android - or the ad revenue - it wont matter so much. If the iOS is making more money, it will matter as to what, and when they release stuff in future, and for what platform. Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone. In a cost benefit analysis it would have to deliver more profits. The jury is out.
I just think it's a little more complicated then you make it sound. If you read my post that you quoted you would see what I think the problem is. I don't think the computation is the problem, but I do believe it contributes on the lower end devices..
The physics are really good in Angry Birds and is one of the things that makes the came as good as it is. The game requires a reserve in computational power when the number of objects being computed at the same time increases during the more complicated levels without impacting the frame rate.
Neither of us knows their specific engine ( it is proprietary as far as I know). There are open source physics engines - like Box2d - which do this kind of thing. What we do know is that it runs on the iPhone 1st gen. I know this is a bit repetitive, but it cant really be that hard to do if the original iPhone handles it.
You may be onto something with the size of the images - thats often the slowdown in games games.
What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.
That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
...Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone.
That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.
A netbook is evidently a different device from a desktop. You are, however, acknowledging that the difference between the original iPhone and a low level Android device may be quite large.
Quote:
I believe the opposite is true.
You know what you "believe" doesn't matter. In this case Rovio have to re-write their code to run on any number of different platforms and test them all, or they have angry customers. Thats the reality of a mass produced game on the Android market.
Android's so called fragmentation is deliberate also. That giant list of Android devices does not mean fragmentation. It means choice. If I wanted to sell an Android application I would not worry about that giant list of great devices. I would target a version of the operating system.
It matters quite a bit if you want to be reasonably sure that the first inclination that your app fails isn't from a bad review on the market saying this app sucks as it doesn't work on X. This means a lot more exemplar phones and testing than with iOS...generally because of blur and sense.
Quote:
At this point it would 2.0 + for me. The UI is geared to be mostly resolution agnostic. I would test on the lowest resolutions and the highest. Sort of the same thing I would do on the iPod/iPhone/iPad.
The UI is moderately geared to be somewhat resolution agnostic if you provide all the specified assets and do all the best practices. You still need to test at all resolutions to insure that your layout doesn't suddenly look stupid because of resolution changes.
The bottom line is that Android development has been more annoying than iOS. The primary saving grace is that it is less annoying than traditional Java ME. That isn't setting the bar very high. Plus the market needs work...it feels like the work of a talented summer intern.
What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have any choice.
What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have choice.
Angry birds shouldn't be on those unsupported devices. There is no reason to go back and develop for those outdated devices. If it can't play the game, too bad. Get something that will. If you can't afford to, too bad. You don't get to play.
What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have any choice.
I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?
I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?
Funny I had bought iPod touch just to test the water if iOS would be useful to me and you know what? It exceeded my expectation. And considering I'm here for some time my expectation should be pretty high. I don't understand what you meant by "customizing desktop". Do you mean customizing homescreen?
huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.
Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.
I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.
This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
And yet it exist. Same thing is happening with Android phones. Just too many hardware variations. Apple is already dealing with quite few variations, so compared Android is lost in those variations.
Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.
I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.
This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.
So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.
I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.
And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.
All of this is fan-boy excuses.
What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.
Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.
Very quickly, I heard back from Bing. No conspiracy, no censorship. As I said, the Samsung Fascinate runs Android 2.1; the Droid 2 runs Android 2.2. Google doesn?t offer the Google Search app for Android 2.1.
That seemed weird. After all, I know there are Android 2.1 devices that do have a Google Search app on them. So, my next stop was to ask Google about this. Nope, there is no Google Search application for 2.1 devices, the company confirmed. This is because most 2.1 devices already have Google Search baked into the original operating system on the phone, through the search box widget.
Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.
So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.
I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.
And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.
All of this is fan-boy excuses.
What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.
Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.
People thinking that testing against 200 phones and testing against 3 phones, 3 iPod touches nad an iPad is the same thing and OK ARE MORE THAN CRAZY. So yes NO FRAGMENTATION, app market is a joy, SDK is kick-ass.
Completely overblown statements made by people who obviously favor the iPhone.
There isn't even a paid version of the game for Android, and the only thing that affects performance is the stupid ads! Literally, in airplane mode, the game is as smooth as silk. Turn 3g on, get ads, and watch the game's framerates drop immensely.
he's talking about the launchers and phone apps, all of which can easily be replaced, and don't come anywhere CLOSE to the impact he describes.
Articles like this are here to only reassure people made the "correct" decision in going with an iPhone. There is no CORRECT decision! It's all about what you like!
"easily replaced" to what... Seriously the market is fragmented, there are many Android phones that can not play Angry birds, most likely even most of them in use today. How is that not a fragmented mess?
Comments
You seem to be skipping over the issue with your repetition of “it runs on the 1st gen iPhone” with a generalized inferior v. superior ideology, without considering what kind of physics engine is available to these disparate devices or the complexities of the APIs the developer has to work. These can great affect how much processing these devices have to actually do to complete the same task.
huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.
I don’t think the answer is as simple as older v. newer.
[/quote]
What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.
The basic point is simple: this is an issue to developers and consumers. Lets not paper over that.
How big is the issue - it depends. If Rovio are blown away by their "sales" on Android - or the ad revenue - it wont matter so much. If the iOS is making more money, it will matter as to what, and when they release stuff in future, and for what platform. Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone. In a cost benefit analysis it would have to deliver more profits. The jury is out.
I just think it's a little more complicated then you make it sound. If you read my post that you quoted you would see what I think the problem is. I don't think the computation is the problem, but I do believe it contributes on the lower end devices..
The physics are really good in Angry Birds and is one of the things that makes the came as good as it is. The game requires a reserve in computational power when the number of objects being computed at the same time increases during the more complicated levels without impacting the frame rate.
Neither of us knows their specific engine ( it is proprietary as far as I know). There are open source physics engines - like Box2d - which do this kind of thing. What we do know is that it runs on the iPhone 1st gen. I know this is a bit repetitive, but it cant really be that hard to do if the original iPhone handles it.
You may be onto something with the size of the images - thats often the slowdown in games games.
What a funny reading of my post. Older vs Newer is something consumers would get. A device released in 2010 not able to compete with a device released in 2007, they wont.
That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.
...Clearly Android takes more development time than an iPhone.
I believe the opposite is true.
That is liking saying why doesn't my 2010 Netbook perform as well as my 2007 quad core gaming monster PC. How new a device is doesn't guarantee better performance.
A netbook is evidently a different device from a desktop. You are, however, acknowledging that the difference between the original iPhone and a low level Android device may be quite large.
I believe the opposite is true.
You know what you "believe" doesn't matter. In this case Rovio have to re-write their code to run on any number of different platforms and test them all, or they have angry customers. Thats the reality of a mass produced game on the Android market.
Android's so called fragmentation is deliberate also. That giant list of Android devices does not mean fragmentation. It means choice. If I wanted to sell an Android application I would not worry about that giant list of great devices. I would target a version of the operating system.
It matters quite a bit if you want to be reasonably sure that the first inclination that your app fails isn't from a bad review on the market saying this app sucks as it doesn't work on X. This means a lot more exemplar phones and testing than with iOS...generally because of blur and sense.
At this point it would 2.0 + for me. The UI is geared to be mostly resolution agnostic. I would test on the lowest resolutions and the highest. Sort of the same thing I would do on the iPod/iPhone/iPad.
The UI is moderately geared to be somewhat resolution agnostic if you provide all the specified assets and do all the best practices. You still need to test at all resolutions to insure that your layout doesn't suddenly look stupid because of resolution changes.
The bottom line is that Android development has been more annoying than iOS. The primary saving grace is that it is less annoying than traditional Java ME. That isn't setting the bar very high. Plus the market needs work...it feels like the work of a talented summer intern.
Buyers are not going to be cognisant that old versions of an OS are sold in the same year on a brand new device new to the market. Too confusing.
Those sorts of customers should just get an iPhone. That way, they won't be confused.
Nevertheless the people who bought Android phones mostly dont know 1.6 from 2.2. All they know is they bought this year.
That is because they are so ignorant. If they just bought an iPhone, they wouldn't need to know nothing.
Its a simple game. It runs on the original iPhone. The physics is 2D. nothing is happening in 3 dimensions.
Runs smooth on my second generation iPod touch.
What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have choice.
+1 i say.
What is this "android is choice" bull going on here? Look like someone buying stupid Google marketing big time. Yes, I have choice. Nobody put the gun on my head to buy iPhone. I have a choice between iPhone and android and I choose iPhone. There can be only so much choices from a single company before the quality goes down the drain. Anyone with a brain cell can see the difference between the marketing and reality, or they're just simply lying to themselves keeping thinking anyone who bought iPhone doesn't have any choice.
I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?
I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?
Again with this?
I have bought my iPod Touch and I now want to customize the desktop to make it more usable for me. What choices do I have now?
Funny I had bought iPod touch just to test the water if iOS would be useful to me and you know what? It exceeded my expectation. And considering I'm here for some time my expectation should be pretty high. I don't understand what you meant by "customizing desktop". Do you mean customizing homescreen?
huh? The point I am making is that it runs on an 3 year old iPhone device, and not on some of the latest Android phones. So fragmentation in the market is hampering developers who want to produce a one size fits all program for their users. No devices have physics engines, btw, thats a software abstraction. And as for the complexities the developer has to work with, that is my point. If the API is more complex as doing the same thing, it is worse.
Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.
I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.
This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
And yet it exist. Same thing is happening with Android phones. Just too many hardware variations. Apple is already dealing with quite few variations, so compared Android is lost in those variations.
Just what are you not understanding about the fact that the developer Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds in OpenGL ES 2.0 for the Android platform, which just so happens not to run great on weak hardware (and any game developer worth their salt would have instantly known that)? Rovio PURPOSELY developed Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 1.1 just so that it would work with those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods. Fact is if they had coded Angry Birds on iOS in OpenGL ES 2.0, it wouldnt run on older devices just like *gasp* Android counterparts.
I dont see you screaming Fragmentation over the fact that id Software had to make 2 versions of Rage for current iOS devices, both of which completely neglect those 2-3 year old iPhones/iPods.
This fault lies directly with Rovio choosing to go for more powerful headsets on Android. Games like Crysis and Final Fantasy XIV dont run on a netbook, and yet i dont see people screaming their heads off saying "OMG FRRAGMENTAAAAAAATIOOOOOON!!!!!!!!"
Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.
So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.
I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.
And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.
All of this is fan-boy excuses.
What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.
Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.
The Best Android Fragmentation Example: No Google Search App On Android 2.1
http://searchengineland.com/android-...-android-56582
Very quickly, I heard back from Bing. No conspiracy, no censorship. As I said, the Samsung Fascinate runs Android 2.1; the Droid 2 runs Android 2.2. Google doesn?t offer the Google Search app for Android 2.1.
That seemed weird. After all, I know there are Android 2.1 devices that do have a Google Search app on them. So, my next stop was to ask Google about this. Nope, there is no Google Search application for 2.1 devices, the company confirmed. This is because most 2.1 devices already have Google Search baked into the original operating system on the phone, through the search box widget.
Again with the NetBooks. If Android phones are netbooks, the iPhone Ist Gen is a quad core Desktop, apparently.
So if it works on iOS in OpenGL 1.1 fine, why did they not just use that? Porting would have been easier. WOuld have been a recompile.
I bet they found problems with OpenGL ES 1.1 on android devices. Their move to opengl ES 2.0 was designed to stop the app being downloaded on lower end machines. That didnt happen.
And is OpenGL ES 2.0 backwardly compatible? No. So any machine which runs Angry Birds would have to have 2.0 - unless there is some kind of weird emulation going on. That means the problems are even worse, this happens on machines designed for ( Android) 2.0.
All of this is fan-boy excuses.
What we know: It costs more to develop for Android because you have to spend developer time on this, it costs more to test, it costs more to support ( forums), you cant be certain your game will work in a device which runs Open GL ES 2.0, and you have to spend money fixing that; and nobody knows if advertising revenue will even come close to the millions this company have made in iOS.
Not a good games machine, these Androids. Still though you can re-arrange the desktop.
People thinking that testing against 200 phones and testing against 3 phones, 3 iPod touches nad an iPad is the same thing and OK ARE MORE THAN CRAZY. So yes NO FRAGMENTATION, app market is a joy, SDK is kick-ass.
Completely overblown statements made by people who obviously favor the iPhone.
There isn't even a paid version of the game for Android, and the only thing that affects performance is the stupid ads! Literally, in airplane mode, the game is as smooth as silk. Turn 3g on, get ads, and watch the game's framerates drop immensely.
he's talking about the launchers and phone apps, all of which can easily be replaced, and don't come anywhere CLOSE to the impact he describes.
Articles like this are here to only reassure people made the "correct" decision in going with an iPhone. There is no CORRECT decision! It's all about what you like!
"easily replaced" to what... Seriously the market is fragmented, there are many Android phones that can not play Angry birds, most likely even most of them in use today. How is that not a fragmented mess?