The view that only Americans are myopic and every other country (e.g., European countries) have a more balanced perspective of the world is in itself as myopic a view.
Coming from another country myself and having lived in the US for quite awhile now, I understand how many Americans can be.
Majority of Americans have never been abroad and depend so much on the mass media (mainly television) in their view of the world. But, the same can be said of most other peoples of the world.
I was surprised for example, during the Flickr censorship debate, a few years back, how many internet savvy Europeans have very distored view of the United States and Americans.
CGC
Having lived on and visited a few different continents over the past 30 years, the USA is really not that bad. Really. My top pics: Sydney, San Francisco, Northern California, Melbourne, the Netherlands. The UK, I was very disappointed with. Singapore, meh.
But... These are all personal biases, experiences and reasons. I'm in Kuala Lumpur mainly because my elderly parents are here, plus some personal medical reasons. I'd bail for Australia the first chance I get if my parents could come and I was in better health.
The big part of this whole thing is not which country is better though, the big deal is the news that Jon is even considering leaving. This does not bode well for Steve returning.
Contrary to the belief of Steve Jobs, you can't buy the love... or loyalty of company executives by showering them with lavish stock option bonuses. All that you achieve with such a lame strategy is to set the stage for a bigger disappointment later on when the executive, like Jonathan Ive, is not called upon for a higher function up the corporate ladder.
For what reason, he says, would Apple have given me such an unheard of stock option bonus if the Apple Board of directors didn't have big plans for me? And when those big plans meet with reality, the executive is so disappointed that he loses all motivation to carry on and continue his day to day job at Apple corporate headquarters. All of a sudden, the stockholders, Mac users and Mac developpers mean nothing to Jonathan Ive, just as his inspired designs for Apple.
Jonathan Ive never had any loyalty for Apple. And now, Jony has a bruised ego!
What? You're assuming Jon Ive wants more? Like being CEO? Please. He's already more or less Steve's right-hand man when it comes to products. Like I said, the big news here is that if he's considering leaving, that implies Steve may not be coming back.
I would expect that that vast majority of people in the uk have been to another country. Our countries are a lot smaller, of course. I found one figure in a quick google that says that 90% of British citizens have a passport (compared to 25% of US citizens).
Of course everyone can be and is myopic - thats part of life, you can't know everything, but by not traveling and by not caring about the world outside your country, you're only going to be more myopic...
Traveling doesn't make you any less myopic. I wouldn't be surprised if most British have traveled out of the country-straight to Disneyland.
Her parents gave up their lives in Japan and moved halfway across the world so that their child could get the best training. Why wouldn't Ives and his wife be willing to move back to the UK, from where he came, speaking the same language, and pretty much the same culture, to give his kids what he thinks is an immersion in their own culture?
It's certainly possible.
Only in this case I'm hard pressed to see what's so fantastic about the UK that you would pack up everything for.
I know I've been pretty disparaging of the UK, and I apologise if I offend anyone.
One thought I had to put down before leaving for work is this. I just hope Jon isn't moving back to relive the memories and experiences that he had. Because countries change rapidly. The UK or any country continually evolves. Many adults return after a long time away to their home countries only to find that many things are very different, and they regret having done it. I hope this doesn't happen with Jon and his family.
Only in this case I'm hard pressed to see what's so fantastic about the UK that you would pack up everything for.
You mean, he would pack up for. I've been to the UK a number of times over the years, four times the past two years, and I like much of it, quaint as it is. I really like London, though it has surprisingly few bookstores or magazine shops.
But my experiences abroad in different countries is that they're no more understanding of the world around them than is the average American.
As for Ives, he comes from there, and may have somewhat of a homesick feeling that he wants to have his kids fulfill by growing up there. It happens to expatriates all the time. People here are reading much too much into this. And we don't know if it's true!
If this is true then I hope he has trained-up people to replace him at Apple. I'm sure there are many talented designers at Apple that Mr. Ives takes credit for their work. Isn't that how it always works.
I can say from my own experience that you can't do this remotely. As much of his work is esthetic, remote viewing just doesn't do it. You have to be there, hold it, feel it, and see it without electronic imaging in the way.
I don't know just how he does his work, but there are CAD designs, physical models, even cardboard mock-ups.
You are at a big disadvantage if all this has to be aired across the Atlantic. Being in the same room as the others in your group is about as important as the rest.
But this is just another rumor so far, though it will likely mess up the stock comeback it began late last week if people take it seriously.
Perhaps conceptional design, maybe. While having everyone in a room is the ideal, and hands on time is important, it's not world we live in. At least not for most global firms. Think cars, airplanes etc. People from around the globe participate, design/do different things and bring them together via computers.
What does it say about the American educational system (even private) - when one of the most brilliant industrial designers of our time wants to leave so his kids can have a decent education?
When all the intellectuals and great minds start leaving the country... watch out.
Those comments don?t jibe. If he is brilliant then you?d expect him to seek out the best education for his children.
Now if you said that Karl Pilkington wouldn?t raise his children in the US because the education system or that Britney Spears wanted to leave the US to raise her children because of the education system then it would say something, but because a ?brilliant? engineer from the UK may have stated this expected. It would have been more of a shocker if Ives didn?t feel this way.
If you judge the US by its universities and major cities -- NY, DC, LA then it's not that bad. That's true of many supposedly undesirable nations. Unfortunately most people there don't live in major cities, nor do they have much of an education.
And while you can go from DC to LA and see many different landscapes in the US -- the culture doesn't significantly change. You have the same Wal-Marts, shitty townhouses, McDonalds, etc. For its size its incredibly monolithic.
I am a second-generation American - all my grandparents were born in Italy. And I am not suggesting that I would prefer to live in any other country - my life is quite comfortable here. But I have travelled quite extensively (especially in Europe) and I see that people, by and large, have a different perspective than most Americans do. Some of this is explained by the close proximity of different countries who fought wars and learned to live peaceably with their neighbors. It's also important that these countries built and lost their empires while the US still engages aggressively in "nation building". Most Europeans view the world differently than most Americans.
Yes there are cultural differences within the US. I grew up in California and attended an eastern university. Things were very different but I still shared a common language, history and culture with most the other students. The differences are a bit more pronounced when going from London to Paris, Paris to Amsterdam or Amsterdam to Warsaw. People are used to dealing with people vastly different than themselves.
I am not suggesting that Americans are horrible people; they are, in fact, quite generous. But ask an American where Yemen is and why it might be important and you are likely to get a blank look. For an uncomfortable evaluation of our education system, you need only turn on the Tonight Show when Leno asks people what should be simple questions that completely counfound people.
I'm sure you're aware the power of editing, right? What do you think Leno's producers are going to do... Show a segment where 10 out of 10 people answer a question correctly, or 0 out of 10 people answer a question wrongly for humorous effect?
And I'm an American who is well aware of where Yemen is.
Perhaps conceptional design, maybe. While having everyone in a room is the ideal, and hands on time is important, it's not world we live in. At least not for most global firms. Think cars, airplanes etc. People from around the globe participate, design/do different things and bring them together via computers.
Really, just how much experience do you have in this? It's easy to post about things you don't know much about. I designed a number of products for my own firm as well as for others. It's very difficult to do this without people being together for a good part of the time, looking at and handling that design from the beginning. It's one reason why so many companies are unsuccessful with their designs. Engineers are great at solving engineering problems, but rarely are they successful at design. The designer must be there from the beginning, and put his or her imprint on it right away. If you're not there, that doesn't happen, and things rapidly get away from you.
Don't be so willing to think that communications technology replaces this. Maybe someday it might, but not now.
Comments
The view that only Americans are myopic and every other country (e.g., European countries) have a more balanced perspective of the world is in itself as myopic a view.
Coming from another country myself and having lived in the US for quite awhile now, I understand how many Americans can be.
Majority of Americans have never been abroad and depend so much on the mass media (mainly television) in their view of the world. But, the same can be said of most other peoples of the world.
I was surprised for example, during the Flickr censorship debate, a few years back, how many internet savvy Europeans have very distored view of the United States and Americans.
CGC
Having lived on and visited a few different continents over the past 30 years, the USA is really not that bad. Really. My top pics: Sydney, San Francisco, Northern California, Melbourne, the Netherlands. The UK, I was very disappointed with. Singapore, meh.
But... These are all personal biases, experiences and reasons. I'm in Kuala Lumpur mainly because my elderly parents are here, plus some personal medical reasons. I'd bail for Australia the first chance I get if my parents could come and I was in better health.
The big part of this whole thing is not which country is better though, the big deal is the news that Jon is even considering leaving. This does not bode well for Steve returning.
Or he has run out of things to copy from Dieter Rams.
No kidding.
I think Ives does great work, but there are plenty of young talented new designers who are just waiting for a chance.
Sounds like you're out in the burbs or Texas. No wonder you want to leave.
You're in the wrong American city...
Indeed, there are at least several decent American cities that most people will find more favourable to most parts of the UK.
Contrary to the belief of Steve Jobs, you can't buy the love... or loyalty of company executives by showering them with lavish stock option bonuses. All that you achieve with such a lame strategy is to set the stage for a bigger disappointment later on when the executive, like Jonathan Ive, is not called upon for a higher function up the corporate ladder.
For what reason, he says, would Apple have given me such an unheard of stock option bonus if the Apple Board of directors didn't have big plans for me? And when those big plans meet with reality, the executive is so disappointed that he loses all motivation to carry on and continue his day to day job at Apple corporate headquarters. All of a sudden, the stockholders, Mac users and Mac developpers mean nothing to Jonathan Ive, just as his inspired designs for Apple.
Jonathan Ive never had any loyalty for Apple. And now, Jony has a bruised ego!
What? You're assuming Jon Ive wants more? Like being CEO? Please. He's already more or less Steve's right-hand man when it comes to products. Like I said, the big news here is that if he's considering leaving, that implies Steve may not be coming back.
No kidding.
I think Ives does great work, but there are plenty of young talented new designers who are just waiting for a chance.
Are those the ones that have been desinging Nokias or BlackBerries, by any chance?
Btw, anyone think Ive looked 56??????
Er... That's Steve, not Ive.
I would expect that that vast majority of people in the uk have been to another country. Our countries are a lot smaller, of course. I found one figure in a quick google that says that 90% of British citizens have a passport (compared to 25% of US citizens).
Of course everyone can be and is myopic - thats part of life, you can't know everything, but by not traveling and by not caring about the world outside your country, you're only going to be more myopic...
Traveling doesn't make you any less myopic. I wouldn't be surprised if most British have traveled out of the country-straight to Disneyland.
Her parents gave up their lives in Japan and moved halfway across the world so that their child could get the best training. Why wouldn't Ives and his wife be willing to move back to the UK, from where he came, speaking the same language, and pretty much the same culture, to give his kids what he thinks is an immersion in their own culture?
It's certainly possible.
Only in this case I'm hard pressed to see what's so fantastic about the UK that you would pack up everything for.
Everything in the natural world obeys this law
Birth
rising
shining
decay
death
Apple is beginning it decay stage
You left out "beleaguered".
One thought I had to put down before leaving for work is this. I just hope Jon isn't moving back to relive the memories and experiences that he had. Because countries change rapidly. The UK or any country continually evolves. Many adults return after a long time away to their home countries only to find that many things are very different, and they regret having done it. I hope this doesn't happen with Jon and his family.
Only in this case I'm hard pressed to see what's so fantastic about the UK that you would pack up everything for.
You mean, he would pack up for. I've been to the UK a number of times over the years, four times the past two years, and I like much of it, quaint as it is. I really like London, though it has surprisingly few bookstores or magazine shops.
But my experiences abroad in different countries is that they're no more understanding of the world around them than is the average American.
As for Ives, he comes from there, and may have somewhat of a homesick feeling that he wants to have his kids fulfill by growing up there. It happens to expatriates all the time. People here are reading much too much into this. And we don't know if it's true!
Traveling doesn't make you any less myopic. I wouldn't be surprised if most British have traveled out of the country-straight to Disneyland.
Traveling has a better chance than not traveling. Saying otherwise is... Myopic?
I can say from my own experience that you can't do this remotely. As much of his work is esthetic, remote viewing just doesn't do it. You have to be there, hold it, feel it, and see it without electronic imaging in the way.
I don't know just how he does his work, but there are CAD designs, physical models, even cardboard mock-ups.
You are at a big disadvantage if all this has to be aired across the Atlantic. Being in the same room as the others in your group is about as important as the rest.
But this is just another rumor so far, though it will likely mess up the stock comeback it began late last week if people take it seriously.
Perhaps conceptional design, maybe. While having everyone in a room is the ideal, and hands on time is important, it's not world we live in. At least not for most global firms. Think cars, airplanes etc. People from around the globe participate, design/do different things and bring them together via computers.
What does it say about the American educational system (even private) - when one of the most brilliant industrial designers of our time wants to leave so his kids can have a decent education?
When all the intellectuals and great minds start leaving the country... watch out.
Those comments don?t jibe. If he is brilliant then you?d expect him to seek out the best education for his children.
Now if you said that Karl Pilkington wouldn?t raise his children in the US because the education system or that Britney Spears wanted to leave the US to raise her children because of the education system then it would say something, but because a ?brilliant? engineer from the UK may have stated this expected. It would have been more of a shocker if Ives didn?t feel this way.
And while you can go from DC to LA and see many different landscapes in the US -- the culture doesn't significantly change. You have the same Wal-Marts, shitty townhouses, McDonalds, etc. For its size its incredibly monolithic.
I am a second-generation American - all my grandparents were born in Italy. And I am not suggesting that I would prefer to live in any other country - my life is quite comfortable here. But I have travelled quite extensively (especially in Europe) and I see that people, by and large, have a different perspective than most Americans do. Some of this is explained by the close proximity of different countries who fought wars and learned to live peaceably with their neighbors. It's also important that these countries built and lost their empires while the US still engages aggressively in "nation building". Most Europeans view the world differently than most Americans.
Yes there are cultural differences within the US. I grew up in California and attended an eastern university. Things were very different but I still shared a common language, history and culture with most the other students. The differences are a bit more pronounced when going from London to Paris, Paris to Amsterdam or Amsterdam to Warsaw. People are used to dealing with people vastly different than themselves.
I am not suggesting that Americans are horrible people; they are, in fact, quite generous. But ask an American where Yemen is and why it might be important and you are likely to get a blank look. For an uncomfortable evaluation of our education system, you need only turn on the Tonight Show when Leno asks people what should be simple questions that completely counfound people.
I'm sure you're aware the power of editing, right? What do you think Leno's producers are going to do... Show a segment where 10 out of 10 people answer a question correctly, or 0 out of 10 people answer a question wrongly for humorous effect?
And I'm an American who is well aware of where Yemen is.
Traveling has a better chance than not traveling. Saying otherwise is... Myopic?
Not a good try. I've traveled enough. Are you the great world traveler then? Somehow, I doubt it.
Perhaps conceptional design, maybe. While having everyone in a room is the ideal, and hands on time is important, it's not world we live in. At least not for most global firms. Think cars, airplanes etc. People from around the globe participate, design/do different things and bring them together via computers.
Really, just how much experience do you have in this? It's easy to post about things you don't know much about. I designed a number of products for my own firm as well as for others. It's very difficult to do this without people being together for a good part of the time, looking at and handling that design from the beginning. It's one reason why so many companies are unsuccessful with their designs. Engineers are great at solving engineering problems, but rarely are they successful at design. The designer must be there from the beginning, and put his or her imprint on it right away. If you're not there, that doesn't happen, and things rapidly get away from you.
Don't be so willing to think that communications technology replaces this. Maybe someday it might, but not now.