Agreed! And there is the positive effect on the environment, too. No water to bleach the cardboard for the boxes, no trees used, no toxic colored inks, no fossil fuel used to make the plastic, no manufacturing waste and no fossil fuel used to ship or go to the store to pick it up.
To insist on an optical disc is short sighted, to say the least. Good for Apple!
What about the negative effect on the environment in producing all the electricity needed for the download method?
"...posted over 1,000 wired Ethernet jacks..." Very impressive, but why no Thunderbolt ports? Installing Thunderbolt would be a great marketing tool, right?
You want a disc, make one. In fact if you want to be really clever you could
1. make a separate partition on your system
2. Install SL then upgrade to Lion
3. install all your apps, register etc as appropriate
4. Update everything for all patches etc
5. Clone it to a bootable emergency disk
Then install your data from the other partition. Now giving you a working Lion partion, a SL partion in case something is boinked under Lion and a back up disk that will put all your apps back in place if something goes south. Just add in a constant back up of your data and you are set.
Yet, I can get Cyberduck for free from Macupdate.com, but it costs $23 at the App Store. So much for lowering costs. And still no mention of a solution for corporate firewalls that block the App Store.
Apple doesn't set the software prices for developers but App Store prices are supposed to be the best price the developer offers, as per Apple's developer agreement. If a corporation chooses to block the App Store, how is that Apple's problem?
You want a disc, make one. In fact if you want to be really clever you could
1. make a separate partition on your system
2. Install SL then upgrade to Lion
3. install all your apps, register etc as appropriate
4. Update everything for all patches etc
5. Clone it to a bootable emergency disk
Then install your data from the other partition. Now giving you a working Lion partion, a SL partion in case something is boinked under Lion and a back up disk that will put all your apps back in place if something goes south. Just add in a constant back up of your data and you are set.
Or you can get even more clever and create a bootable install disc, either as a DVD or a separate partition. I've been doing the latter for years, even before Disk Utility in Snow Leopard made it cake walk to set up.
1) Show Package Contents of Install Mac OS X Lion.app in /Applications, then Mount /Content/Shared Support/InstallESD.dmg.
2) Open Disk Utility. Click on Restore on any tab. Drag InstallESD.dmg as source and drag any free ≥ 8GB partition or blank DL-DVD as source.
This may come as a shock to some (who seem to have ignorance for the laws of physics but I digress) - wired is faster than wireless and has significantly more capacity which is important when you are, say, tossing around 4GB installations of OS's and Development platforms.
That's the difference between Apple and smart a$$ forum posters - Apple = Professionals. Forum posters - well, you get the idea...
The "difference" is that Apple's engineers are aware that Gigabyte Ethernet is faster than WiFi?
Please. Setting up a network in a building is not, um, noteworthy. If it were, then the new data center would have to be a supernatural occurrence.
"...posted over 1,000 wired Ethernet jacks..." Very impressive, but why no Thunderbolt ports? Installing Thunderbolt would be a great marketing tool, right?
Except for the very very few people who actually have Thunderbolt still.
Pretty embarrassing when your developers come up to you to get new software and you can't give it to them because you don't support their computer.
When a hard drive crashes, how do people load the OS to a new drive?
And the answer is not necessarily "use your backup". I use a double backup, with TimeMachine and SuperDuper, but I know many people with NO backup at all. While I agree that is foolish, it does happen a lot.
Maybe - just maybe - Apple has considered that and devised a solution. Maybe - just maybe - they have placed a boot ROM in every machine that can at least fire up the machine and bring you to a screen where you can re-download the OS from the cloud, along with your other apps and documents.
Maybe - just maybe - Apple has considered that and devised a solution. Maybe - just maybe - they have placed a boot ROM in every machine that can at least fire up the machine and bring you to a screen where you can re-download the OS from the cloud, along with your other apps and documents.
I'm not seeing any evidence of a boot ROM but I wouldn't expect to. They have the Recovery HD in case something goes wrong with your volume/partition. That is the most likely situation and that can access your networking HW.
If the physical drive goes bad and needs to be replaced that Recovery HD volume is not applicable but savvy users would have not only copied the "Install Mac OS X Lion.app" file to another drive, but would have also used Disk Utility to make a bootable disk from the InstallESD.dmg hidden inside it.
Furthermore, this problem of your physical drive going bad is becoming less of an issue of users as Apple will move more of their devices to NAND-based boot partitions. What percentage of Mac HDDs die? What percentage of those are likely to be replaced by the owner, not fixed via Apple or a 3rd-party's repair shop in or out of warranty? I'd like the primary Lion installer to offer a "Create Lion Restore Disc" option but it's easy enough that I will not have a problem walking my parents through it's few steps.
Google "Snow Leopard internet sharing" and you'll see the top searches Google suggests are "not working, greyed out, fails, problems, issues, etc." Some people have wasted days and even weeks trying unsuccessfully to get it to work, and have posted such on the Apple Support forums.
The internet is a big place with lots of users. You can "Google" for problems with ANYTHING, and even if that thing has a super low problem rate (you know, fraction of people with problems vice those with none) you're going to get a whole bunch of hits.
In other words, "Googling" for a problem and observing how many hits you get is NOT a way to prove that something is a major problem.
If the physical drive goes bad and needs to be replaced that Recovery HD volume is not applicable but savvy users would have not only copied the "Install Mac OS X Lion.app" file to another drive, but would have also used Disk Utility to make a bootable disk from the InstallESD.dmg hidden inside it.
And hence my point: Apple can't just design to "savvy users", because that is probably less than 25% of their customer base. They must have a solution that "just works". I bet they have one, whether it is apparent right now or not. (Don't take my particular example of a "Boot ROM" too seriously.)
No, the App Store is the number one store for computer software, even though it only runs on Macs. More people buy from the Store than from Best Buy or Amazon, period. Much more impressive.
(At least, that's what Jobs said.)
Thats because users of Ipad, Ipod and Iphone don't have a choice!!
I'm with him, and also a shareholder. If Apple can ship a Lion install for 50 cents worth of bandwidth instead of $4.00 worth of packaging and material, then screw the edge cases.
I'm sure that Apple's volumes would cost less than a dollar a disc including silk screen and packaging. Seems to be about the same as the cost of bandwidth with many services.
Maybe - just maybe - Apple has considered that and devised a solution. Maybe - just maybe - they have placed a boot ROM in every machine that can at least fire up the machine and bring you to a screen where you can re-download the OS from the cloud, along with your other apps and documents.
I find this of interest - Apple's expanded view of Recovery Mode. It not only includes the reinstallation of OS X, but also the Safari app to access the Apple Support site, plus restoring from Time Machine.
Comments
Agreed! And there is the positive effect on the environment, too. No water to bleach the cardboard for the boxes, no trees used, no toxic colored inks, no fossil fuel used to make the plastic, no manufacturing waste and no fossil fuel used to ship or go to the store to pick it up.
To insist on an optical disc is short sighted, to say the least. Good for Apple!
What about the negative effect on the environment in producing all the electricity needed for the download method?
Are you for real? PC users haven't gotten DVD media in years and MS raised the price of Windows!
That's funny, because the copy of Windows 7 I got came with a DVD
Notice anything(s) missing?
We call that progress!
This?
I want a disc. No lion for me.
You want a disc, make one. In fact if you want to be really clever you could
1. make a separate partition on your system
2. Install SL then upgrade to Lion
3. install all your apps, register etc as appropriate
4. Update everything for all patches etc
5. Clone it to a bootable emergency disk
Then install your data from the other partition. Now giving you a working Lion partion, a SL partion in case something is boinked under Lion and a back up disk that will put all your apps back in place if something goes south. Just add in a constant back up of your data and you are set.
it's also the "green" solution, so we can save the dying gay baby whales. Or something.
Hmmm - irrelevant, ecologically illiterate and homophobic all in one small post.
Yet, I can get Cyberduck for free from Macupdate.com, but it costs $23 at the App Store. So much for lowering costs. And still no mention of a solution for corporate firewalls that block the App Store.
Apple doesn't set the software prices for developers but App Store prices are supposed to be the best price the developer offers, as per Apple's developer agreement. If a corporation chooses to block the App Store, how is that Apple's problem?
You want a disc, make one. In fact if you want to be really clever you could
1. make a separate partition on your system
2. Install SL then upgrade to Lion
3. install all your apps, register etc as appropriate
4. Update everything for all patches etc
5. Clone it to a bootable emergency disk
Then install your data from the other partition. Now giving you a working Lion partion, a SL partion in case something is boinked under Lion and a back up disk that will put all your apps back in place if something goes south. Just add in a constant back up of your data and you are set.
Or you can get even more clever and create a bootable install disc, either as a DVD or a separate partition. I've been doing the latter for years, even before Disk Utility in Snow Leopard made it cake walk to set up.
1) Show Package Contents of Install Mac OS X Lion.app in /Applications, then Mount /Content/Shared Support/InstallESD.dmg.
2) Open Disk Utility. Click on Restore on any tab. Drag InstallESD.dmg as source and drag any free ≥ 8GB partition or blank DL-DVD as source.
3) Click Restore button.
This may come as a shock to some (who seem to have ignorance for the laws of physics but I digress) - wired is faster than wireless and has significantly more capacity which is important when you are, say, tossing around 4GB installations of OS's and Development platforms.
That's the difference between Apple and smart a$$ forum posters - Apple = Professionals. Forum posters - well, you get the idea...
The "difference" is that Apple's engineers are aware that Gigabyte Ethernet is faster than WiFi?
Please. Setting up a network in a building is not, um, noteworthy. If it were, then the new data center would have to be a supernatural occurrence.
This is all old tech. Cisco-era stuff.
"...posted over 1,000 wired Ethernet jacks..." Very impressive, but why no Thunderbolt ports? Installing Thunderbolt would be a great marketing tool, right?
Except for the very very few people who actually have Thunderbolt still.
Pretty embarrassing when your developers come up to you to get new software and you can't give it to them because you don't support their computer.
This will work for me, but I wonder:
When a hard drive crashes, how do people load the OS to a new drive?
And the answer is not necessarily "use your backup". I use a double backup, with TimeMachine and SuperDuper, but I know many people with NO backup at all. While I agree that is foolish, it does happen a lot.
Maybe - just maybe - Apple has considered that and devised a solution. Maybe - just maybe - they have placed a boot ROM in every machine that can at least fire up the machine and bring you to a screen where you can re-download the OS from the cloud, along with your other apps and documents.
DVD install is painfully slow. Praise be to the sense to get rid of them.
Do you expect a network based install to be faster?
Maybe - just maybe - Apple has considered that and devised a solution. Maybe - just maybe - they have placed a boot ROM in every machine that can at least fire up the machine and bring you to a screen where you can re-download the OS from the cloud, along with your other apps and documents.
I'm not seeing any evidence of a boot ROM but I wouldn't expect to. They have the Recovery HD in case something goes wrong with your volume/partition. That is the most likely situation and that can access your networking HW.
If the physical drive goes bad and needs to be replaced that Recovery HD volume is not applicable but savvy users would have not only copied the "Install Mac OS X Lion.app" file to another drive, but would have also used Disk Utility to make a bootable disk from the InstallESD.dmg hidden inside it.
Furthermore, this problem of your physical drive going bad is becoming less of an issue of users as Apple will move more of their devices to NAND-based boot partitions. What percentage of Mac HDDs die? What percentage of those are likely to be replaced by the owner, not fixed via Apple or a 3rd-party's repair shop in or out of warranty? I'd like the primary Lion installer to offer a "Create Lion Restore Disc" option but it's easy enough that I will not have a problem walking my parents through it's few steps.
Google "Snow Leopard internet sharing" and you'll see the top searches Google suggests are "not working, greyed out, fails, problems, issues, etc." Some people have wasted days and even weeks trying unsuccessfully to get it to work, and have posted such on the Apple Support forums.
The internet is a big place with lots of users. You can "Google" for problems with ANYTHING, and even if that thing has a super low problem rate (you know, fraction of people with problems vice those with none) you're going to get a whole bunch of hits.
In other words, "Googling" for a problem and observing how many hits you get is NOT a way to prove that something is a major problem.
Thompson
If the physical drive goes bad and needs to be replaced that Recovery HD volume is not applicable but savvy users would have not only copied the "Install Mac OS X Lion.app" file to another drive, but would have also used Disk Utility to make a bootable disk from the InstallESD.dmg hidden inside it.
And hence my point: Apple can't just design to "savvy users", because that is probably less than 25% of their customer base. They must have a solution that "just works". I bet they have one, whether it is apparent right now or not. (Don't take my particular example of a "Boot ROM" too seriously.)
Thompson
I want a disc. No lion for me.
Interpretation: I want a horse. No mechanized buggy for me.
NOTE: Nothing personal :-)
No, the App Store is the number one store for computer software, even though it only runs on Macs. More people buy from the Store than from Best Buy or Amazon, period. Much more impressive.
(At least, that's what Jobs said.)
Thats because users of Ipad, Ipod and Iphone don't have a choice!!
Thats because users of Ipad, Ipod and Iphone don't have a choice!!
This has absolutely nothing to do with the App Store on iOS devices. This is talking about the Mac App Store.
I'm with him, and also a shareholder. If Apple can ship a Lion install for 50 cents worth of bandwidth instead of $4.00 worth of packaging and material, then screw the edge cases.
I'm sure that Apple's volumes would cost less than a dollar a disc including silk screen and packaging. Seems to be about the same as the cost of bandwidth with many services.
Maybe - just maybe - Apple has considered that and devised a solution. Maybe - just maybe - they have placed a boot ROM in every machine that can at least fire up the machine and bring you to a screen where you can re-download the OS from the cloud, along with your other apps and documents.
I find this of interest - Apple's expanded view of Recovery Mode. It not only includes the reinstallation of OS X, but also the Safari app to access the Apple Support site, plus restoring from Time Machine.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-ne...nternetrestore