Microsoft's preview of Windows 8 has developers 'horrified' - report

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  • Reply 21 of 84
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webmail View Post


    This isn't a joke, but the developer who was used to comment on Windows 8 obviously is



    The dashboard is based on html5/css3 which is SHOULD BE, that doesn't mean you write your application in HTML 5, it just means if you want a front end that shows on the dashboard tiles you write it with HTML 5, which is a good thing.



    You can't tell me you know how to write C++ but can't write HTML5, it's too easy.



    Actually, anyone can write HTML5 but they just may not be good at it. HTML like any other language takes years to master even when you know other languages. People simply don't give it the full attention it deserves to their own detriment.



    I actually agree that people should be moving to cross platform solutions like HTML5 particularly for the UIs. MSFT actually has the right idea here. Developers are going to have to re-train themselves. They complain about proprietary products and now MSFT is rightfully telling them to learn the cross platform ways of doing things. HTML5, CSS3, Javascript.
  • Reply 22 of 84
    bdkennedy1bdkennedy1 Posts: 1,459member
    That developer is the reason Windows sucks. Windows developers don't want to move forward because it costs them money. This same thing happened with the DOS to Windows XP transition.
  • Reply 23 of 84
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post


    Microsoft has created a modern platform for mobile devices - its called Windows Phone 7, which is loosely based on Silverlight. We won't know any more details about Windows 8 until later this September at the BUILD conference, but its apparent to me that Silverlight will continue to play a role in the new platform. Why not? It's already running on ARM, so cross-compatibility with x86 is still possible.



    Except the article is explicitly stating that Microsoft has explicitly stated that Silverlight will *not* be the development environment for Windows 8, nor will it be the development environment for the Windows 8 'layer," (for those who believe that's what they are talking about.)



    These things may change, but for the moment, those are the facts.
  • Reply 24 of 84
    gprovidagprovida Posts: 258member
    MS adoption of emerging standards will be within MS world. They went thru this with Netscape. They want to disrupt their operations and short circuit Apple, Google, HP WebOS, with MS development capabilities and Windows everywhere.



    At the same time they will keep their current legacy tools etc fully functional and evolving. They want to compete with Apple MacOS, think Visual Basic, with Google Chrome and WebOS think Silverlight. And .NET, and with Android and iPhone iPad apps.



    Jobs would just move on to the future. MS wants to not loose what it has and get the new disruptive. This will be hard and rarely works, but it did with Windows from

    Apple and Internet from Netscape, and .Net from JAVA. Not so well for media players, social, cloud, and Search.





    So stand by for quite the ride.
  • Reply 25 of 84
    gustavgustav Posts: 827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    Actually, anyone can write HTML5 but they just may not be good at it. HTML like any other language takes years to master even when you know other languages.



    No, HTML takes weeks to master. Javascript takes a few more months. Being able to design a nice web page with it is another story.
  • Reply 26 of 84
    yuusharoyuusharo Posts: 311member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Except the article is explicitly stating that Microsoft has explicitly stated that Silverlight will *not* be the development environment for Windows 8, nor will it be the development environment for the Windows 8 'layer," (for those who believe that's what they are talking about.)



    These things may change, but for the moment, those are the facts.



    Eh, what part of the article explicitly states that Microsoft is not using Silverlight in the development environment for Windows 8? They've never said any such thing. The only information we have is essentially all contained in that 5-minute preview video, which leaves a lot of unanswered questions including the fate of Silverlight.



    Anyone spouting something "definitive" about Windows 8 right now is either guessing or lying, since we don't have any additional info yet. The facts, as you put it, are that Windows 8 will introduce a new platform that will exist across Desktops, Laptops, Tablets and Phones, and that platform (for now) is based on HTML, CSS and Javascript.



    We'll know more in September.
  • Reply 27 of 84
    Anyone else starting to wonder if Ballmer is on Apple's payroll?
  • Reply 28 of 84
    This is more about Microsoft being unable to articulate the way the touch layer and the "hardcore" OS layer are going to work together. Microsoft is nothing if not beholden to the needs of its legacy users and long-term developers.



    This does underscore how poor a job they did explaining the "2 UI" identity of Windows 8 and how utterly focused they were about serving something up that responded to iOS.
  • Reply 29 of 84
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EyeNsteinNo View Post


    Developers horrified !!!, Just think of the billions of windows end-users that will be horrified !!!!



    Make it simple, just do a new Windows BOB OS so one size fits all.







    BOB for Tablet would be wonderful for Windows users ;-)
  • Reply 30 of 84
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,744member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    I actually agree that people should be moving to cross platform solutions like HTML5 particularly for the UIs. MSFT actually has the right idea here. Developers are going to have to re-train themselves. They complain about proprietary products and now MSFT is rightfully telling them to learn the cross platform ways of doing things. HTML5, CSS3, Javascript.



    I'm old enough to have lived through the "write once, run anywhere" promise of many development technologies (Java, Python, Ruby, etc) and I'm still not buying it.



    Companies which create and sell a platform have no incentive to allow you to create apps which work on competitors platforms. They may begrudgingly support cross-platform development technologies (so that they can market their platform as having many existing applications), but they'd much rather tie you to their platform in the long run. I'd count on Microsoft to extend Javascript in proprietary ways.



    Show me a single HTML5 application that can receive multitouch input and gestures on every device which supports it, or access the camera/video camera on all devices and show images/video from it, etc, etc.



    There are such a wide variety of devices out there, combined with the number of different HTML5 engines (customized for each platform), that I seriously doubt there will ever be a way to have a complex HTML5 application work the same way on every device. Simple HTML5 applications, sure, but not complex ones which make use of the unique features of each device.
  • Reply 31 of 84
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheMacadvocate View Post


    This does underscore how poor a job they did explaining the "2 UI" identity of Windows 8 and how utterly focused they were about serving something up that responded to iOS.



    ... and more importantly (to M$), Android/Honeycomb.
  • Reply 32 of 84
    jonamacjonamac Posts: 388member
    My understanding was that this HTML5/JavaScript layer was just a layer of icing on the traditional Windows cake. This seems like a huge overreaction based on extremely limited information. Microsoft not commenting on this situation is precisely what Apple would do too. Not too excited about Windows 8 myself, but let's not jump the gun.



    I have to say I'm disappointed in AI. The quoting of 'horrified' was only in the title of the linked article and was not itself a quote from any developer in the linked article. It's not good journalism IMO.
  • Reply 33 of 84
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post


    Microsoft has created a modern platform for mobile devices - its called Windows Phone 7, which is loosely based on Silverlight. We won't know any more details about Windows 8 until later this September at the BUILD conference, but its apparent to me that Silverlight will continue to play a role in the new platform. Why not? It's already running on ARM, so cross-compatibility with x86 is still possible.



    MS has said, over and over, that Windows Phone 7 will NOT be used for tablets. Silverlight does not need to be ported to x86, because this is where it comes from.



    MS wants to be on tablets, without cannibalizing their core business. That is why they draw the (useless) line between phones and tablets. A phone OS does not bring enough fees from the OEMs, people do not pay hundreds for Exchange, Sharepoint and Windows Server CALs for a phone OS, and people do not pay up to $400 for an office suite on a phone OS. Heck, there is not even a possible up-sell to Professional and Ultimate versions here.



    Of course, Ballmer is again wrong here. OEMs can't even compete with Apple's iPad using the free Android. How interested will they be in $25 - $100 Windows licenses?
  • Reply 34 of 84
    I agree that developers need to realize that 20 yrs worth of reference has to go away if they want to get ahead like mac... but JS? it's almost like saying, we're going to take 3 steps forward, but two steps backward....



    Windows 8/9 needs to be evolutionary... not revolutionary
  • Reply 35 of 84
    mn3416mn3416 Posts: 13member
    "The developers that the company should be courting are being given good reason to doubt the future of the platform," Bright wrote. "And they're genuinely angry and worried by this. The prospect of being stuck with HTML5 and JavaScript for their development is encouraging them to jump ship."



    Jump ship? Seriously?? Where are they going to "jump ship" to? Are all these disgruntled developers going to suddenly start writing code for Apple or Linux? I think not.



    It's not like Windows 8 will see 100% adoption immediately following release. Windows 7 is going to be around for quite a while so they can slowly transition to the new technology as needed.



    Of course I am not a developer... so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
  • Reply 36 of 84
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    A potential Microsoft dev rebellion? I love it!
  • Reply 37 of 84
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    I have a great platform they can develop for that is mature and productive and runs on the most popular devices in the world (hint hint)
  • Reply 38 of 84
    maccherrymaccherry Posts: 924member
    I could careless. I'm all Apple baby! I'll be programing for the iPad and starting my business in a few years. Good times ahead. Big ideas abound.
  • Reply 39 of 84
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jkichline View Post


    I have a great platform they can develop for that is mature and productive and runs on the most popular devices in the world (hint hint)



    Maybe more and more MS devs will see the wisdom of developing for iOS. Wheeee!
  • Reply 40 of 84
    Instead of courting developers with their opinions on how and what they would like to see as an evolution or even revolution from a developer's standpoint, MS went ahead, arrogantly as always, and finally decided to screw the pooch.



    Good going MS. Glad I don't belong to that camp.
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