As multimedia tablet at 40% of the iPad's lowest price point I think the Kindle Fire stands an excellent chance of competing with the iPad in unit sales in the long run. It does have a much more limited usage range than the iPad, but the iPad was also doomed to fail by analysts because it didn't offer the full range of OS capabilities of desktop OS.
This is what I don't understand. Apple claims that they don't make any money from iTunes sales. Amazon sells the same content, often at slightly lower prices. So, Amazon cannot be making much from its contents business. Amazon Prime at $79/mo is a fantastic deal for the customer. Must be a money loser for Amazon.
Now, Apple has 35% plus margins on its hardware sales. If Amazon will be selling the Kindle Fire at a loss, its entire contents business (including hardware) will be a money loser for quite some time.
Their strategy seems to be to increase share even if they lose money for a while. Pretty risky, I think.
It will be interesting to see how Google responds. They have all the same kind of Content. Now that they have Motorola maybe we will see a $199 competitor built by Motorola.
Let them go at it I say. It would be entertaining.
I'm not claiming that the Kindle Fire is going to flop, far from it. I'm sure that there are plenty of poor people around,
Don't for get all those horrible people who just simply hate anything Apple. And all of the good kind people that the greedy salesmen talk into buying one because it is "just like an iPad".
It worked in the smartphone biz, so why not the tablet biz?
Poor.
Bad.
Gullible.
Pick one or more to explain why Android is kicking Apples butt in the phone market, and then extend that to the tablet market. Maybe Apple should have stuck with selling to elite people instead of Grandma.
Amazon wants to open a few more branches. The kindle fire is just another shop front.
Owners of Android devices spend far less on paid content than do owners of iOS devices. If kindle fire owners don't buy much from amazon, what are they going to do with their new toy?
Amazon's business plan with the kindle fire is the exact opposite of Apple's. Apple sells content at break-even and makes money on the hardware. Amazon aims to break-even or possibly takes a loss on the hardware in order to make money on content sales.
If anyone can pull it off, it is Amazon, if they don't loose too much money on the hardware.
If somebody is wealthy, educated and over 30, then they probably already have an iPad!
That was actually my point.
Quote:
The original Kindle definitely caught on with people who were probably well educated and had money, because people who read a lot of books tend to be smarter than people who don't. That's just a personal observation. But I wonder if many of them will be attracted to the color Kindle, because I'm pretty sure that what made the original Kindles good was the e-ink screen and the huge battery life.
... and that was another of my points. Amazon will definitely sell plenty of e-ink devices.
I'm lazy and don't feel like researching it but can anyone tell me if Amazon sells its content (other than books) through any other device maker (ie. Samsung smartphones or tablets)?
Pick one or more to explain why Android is kicking Apples butt in the phone market, and then extend that to the tablet market. Maybe Apple should have stuck with selling to elite people instead of Grandma.
please explain to me how market share translates to kicking Apple butt? Don't forget the bottom line. Dont forget to look at Nokia market share of all phones worldwide.
Don't for get all those horrible people who just simply hate anything Apple.
Not too many of those kind of people actually exist. There are a few loud, ignorant individuals on the internet who would fit into that deranged category, but their numbers are small and they have zero effect on the market.
Losing around $50 on each, I thought was the consensus.
You know this is a bunch of crap yet you posted it anyway. If they are losing anything per tablet I doubt it's much. If it is the case anyway it's tied to high manufacturing costs early on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
This is what I don't understand. Apple claims that they don't make any money from iTunes sales. Amazon sells the same content, often at slightly lower prices. So, Amazon cannot be making much from its contents business. Amazon Prime at $79/mo is a fantastic deal for the customer. Must be a money loser for Amazon.
Now, Apple has 35% plus margins on its hardware sales. If Amazon will be selling the Kindle Fire at a loss, its entire contents business (including hardware) will be a money loser for quite some time.
Their strategy seems to be to increase share even if they lose money for a while. Pretty risky, I think.
I didn't know Apple claimed that. Amazon never claimed it was a loss on each. An analyst did so with whatever numbers they used to calculate manufacturing costs. I highly doubt they've set this up to be a loss leader.
What I've noticed here is that when these analysts say something bad about Apple (I can't actually think of one of their reviews that has been correct), everyone gets angry. I thought the analyst that claimed Amazon was losing significantly on these was one with a poor track record on their predictions.
I'm lazy and don't feel like researching it but can anyone tell me if Amazon sells its content (other than books) through any other device maker (ie. Samsung smartphones or tablets)?
They sell everything that they carry through the iPad.
In a way, Kindle Fire and iPad sit on the opposite spectrum. Apple provides contents ecosystem to make money from the hardware business. Amazon sells cheap hardware to make money from the contents business. So if you want good hardware and wide range of contents, you pay more and buy iPad. If you want cheap hardware and contents from Amazon, buy Kindle Fire.
I notice the word good was missing from the Amazon side of the equation, replaced by cheap.
And in relation to the hardware too, where cheap has meant bad things for the Android tablet market so far. This alleged "tablet" isn't even running the tablet version of Android!
That's equal to the number of shares multiplied by the price per share which doesn't really tell us about the specific markets they are in. There are very specific stats that show that Apple is leading the handset, tablet, PMP, and personal computer markets in every relevant sense. Most notably they get an overwhelmingly high profit of all these market segments while most vendors using Android can't even seem to get in the black and the others seem to barely be able to tread water. Now that they have the additional weight of the MS, Oracle and Apple looming and Google unwilling to back them we may see these vendors start to drop Android in short order or fork it so they can distance themselves from the costly penalties associated with stolen goods.
Not too many of those kind of people actually exist. There are a few loud, ignorant individuals on the internet who would fit into that deranged category, but their numbers are small and they have zero effect on the market.
So then why are Android phones outselling iOS phones at a greater than 2 to 1 margin? Are they all selling to poor people?
And I can watch Lovefilm on a bigger screen, on my iPad. Amazon doesn't own the content in Lovefilm, so they still have o be careful not to piss off the content owners with their ways (a la cloud player).
As multimedia tablet at 40% of the iPad's lowest price point I think the Kindle Fire stands an excellent chance of competing with the iPad in unit sales in the long run. It does have a much more limited usage range than the iPad, but the iPad was also doomed to fail by analysts because it didn't offer the full range of OS capabilities of desktop OS.
It's 40% of the iPad's price, but it's also only 40% of the size, and has about 40% of the features. Together, that may be enough to satisfy some. It also my wet their thirst for the real thing.
A poor man's iPad. Sure Amazon is targeting purchasers for their market. But they are also giving out enough for simple interests.
They will have an Internet connection. Okay so they need WiFi. There are quite a few places that have free WiFi. McDonalds won't bother you if you hang out there. Plenty of Libraries out there.
Amazon has Music, Movie, and also they have their very own Android App Store (simplified)
And with Internet, you should be able to use all of Googles' free stuff too.
Or am I not understanding what the 'Fire' or all the other tablets from them offer.
Comments
Losing around $50 on each, I thought was the consensus.
Nope. Not a consensus. Just one lone analyst. Just one bit of the "noise" JP Morgan speaks about.
This is what I don't understand. Apple claims that they don't make any money from iTunes sales. Amazon sells the same content, often at slightly lower prices. So, Amazon cannot be making much from its contents business. Amazon Prime at $79/mo is a fantastic deal for the customer. Must be a money loser for Amazon.
Now, Apple has 35% plus margins on its hardware sales. If Amazon will be selling the Kindle Fire at a loss, its entire contents business (including hardware) will be a money loser for quite some time.
Their strategy seems to be to increase share even if they lose money for a while. Pretty risky, I think.
It will be interesting to see how Google responds. They have all the same kind of Content. Now that they have Motorola maybe we will see a $199 competitor built by Motorola.
Let them go at it I say. It would be entertaining.
I'm not claiming that the Kindle Fire is going to flop, far from it. I'm sure that there are plenty of poor people around,
Don't for get all those horrible people who just simply hate anything Apple. And all of the good kind people that the greedy salesmen talk into buying one because it is "just like an iPad".
It worked in the smartphone biz, so why not the tablet biz?
Poor.
Bad.
Gullible.
Pick one or more to explain why Android is kicking Apples butt in the phone market, and then extend that to the tablet market. Maybe Apple should have stuck with selling to elite people instead of Grandma.
Owners of Android devices spend far less on paid content than do owners of iOS devices. If kindle fire owners don't buy much from amazon, what are they going to do with their new toy?
Amazon's business plan with the kindle fire is the exact opposite of Apple's. Apple sells content at break-even and makes money on the hardware. Amazon aims to break-even or possibly takes a loss on the hardware in order to make money on content sales.
If anyone can pull it off, it is Amazon, if they don't loose too much money on the hardware.
If somebody is wealthy, educated and over 30, then they probably already have an iPad!
That was actually my point.
The original Kindle definitely caught on with people who were probably well educated and had money, because people who read a lot of books tend to be smarter than people who don't. That's just a personal observation. But I wonder if many of them will be attracted to the color Kindle, because I'm pretty sure that what made the original Kindles good was the e-ink screen and the huge battery life.
... and that was another of my points. Amazon will definitely sell plenty of e-ink devices.
I'm lazy and don't feel like researching it but can anyone tell me if Amazon sells its content (other than books) through any other device maker (ie. Samsung smartphones or tablets)?
D
Pick one or more to explain why Android is kicking Apples butt in the phone market, and then extend that to the tablet market. Maybe Apple should have stuck with selling to elite people instead of Grandma.
please explain to me how market share translates to kicking Apple butt? Don't forget the bottom line. Dont forget to look at Nokia market share of all phones worldwide.
valuation at close of market today:
Apple value: $362.1 Billion
Google value: $179.3 Billion
Microsoft value: $213.2 Billion
Nokia value: $21.4 Billion
Daring Fireball's analysis is much better than anything on Wall Street.
Don't for get all those horrible people who just simply hate anything Apple.
Not too many of those kind of people actually exist. There are a few loud, ignorant individuals on the internet who would fit into that deranged category, but their numbers are small and they have zero effect on the market.
Losing around $50 on each, I thought was the consensus.
You know this is a bunch of crap yet you posted it anyway. If they are losing anything per tablet I doubt it's much. If it is the case anyway it's tied to high manufacturing costs early on.
This is what I don't understand. Apple claims that they don't make any money from iTunes sales. Amazon sells the same content, often at slightly lower prices. So, Amazon cannot be making much from its contents business. Amazon Prime at $79/mo is a fantastic deal for the customer. Must be a money loser for Amazon.
Now, Apple has 35% plus margins on its hardware sales. If Amazon will be selling the Kindle Fire at a loss, its entire contents business (including hardware) will be a money loser for quite some time.
Their strategy seems to be to increase share even if they lose money for a while. Pretty risky, I think.
I didn't know Apple claimed that. Amazon never claimed it was a loss on each. An analyst did so with whatever numbers they used to calculate manufacturing costs. I highly doubt they've set this up to be a loss leader.
What I've noticed here is that when these analysts say something bad about Apple (I can't actually think of one of their reviews that has been correct), everyone gets angry. I thought the analyst that claimed Amazon was losing significantly on these was one with a poor track record on their predictions.
I'm lazy and don't feel like researching it but can anyone tell me if Amazon sells its content (other than books) through any other device maker (ie. Samsung smartphones or tablets)?
They sell everything that they carry through the iPad.
please explain to me how market share translates to kicking Apple butt?
I meant kicking Apple's butt WRT market share. Android outsells iOS at a greater than 2 to 1 ratio.
In a way, Kindle Fire and iPad sit on the opposite spectrum. Apple provides contents ecosystem to make money from the hardware business. Amazon sells cheap hardware to make money from the contents business. So if you want good hardware and wide range of contents, you pay more and buy iPad. If you want cheap hardware and contents from Amazon, buy Kindle Fire.
I notice the word good was missing from the Amazon side of the equation, replaced by cheap.
And in relation to the hardware too, where cheap has meant bad things for the Android tablet market so far. This alleged "tablet" isn't even running the tablet version of Android!
valuation at close of market today:
Apple value: $362.1 Billion
Google value: $179.3 Billion
Microsoft value: $213.2 Billion
That's equal to the number of shares multiplied by the price per share which doesn't really tell us about the specific markets they are in. There are very specific stats that show that Apple is leading the handset, tablet, PMP, and personal computer markets in every relevant sense. Most notably they get an overwhelmingly high profit of all these market segments while most vendors using Android can't even seem to get in the black and the others seem to barely be able to tread water. Now that they have the additional weight of the MS, Oracle and Apple looming and Google unwilling to back them we may see these vendors start to drop Android in short order or fork it so they can distance themselves from the costly penalties associated with stolen goods.
Not too many of those kind of people actually exist. There are a few loud, ignorant individuals on the internet who would fit into that deranged category, but their numbers are small and they have zero effect on the market.
So then why are Android phones outselling iOS phones at a greater than 2 to 1 margin? Are they all selling to poor people?
Amazon owns the biggest movie rental company in Europe, who also offer streaming movies just like Netflix do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoveFilm
And I can watch Lovefilm on a bigger screen, on my iPad. Amazon doesn't own the content in Lovefilm, so they still have o be careful not to piss off the content owners with their ways (a la cloud player).
I meant kicking Apple's butt WRT market share. Android outsells iOS at a greater than 2 to 1 ratio.
Google nor Apple sell those OSes.
Moskowitz said he believes users have come to expect certain features in a tablet.
Like flash support?
As multimedia tablet at 40% of the iPad's lowest price point I think the Kindle Fire stands an excellent chance of competing with the iPad in unit sales in the long run. It does have a much more limited usage range than the iPad, but the iPad was also doomed to fail by analysts because it didn't offer the full range of OS capabilities of desktop OS.
It's 40% of the iPad's price, but it's also only 40% of the size, and has about 40% of the features. Together, that may be enough to satisfy some. It also my wet their thirst for the real thing.
A poor man's iPad. Sure Amazon is targeting purchasers for their market. But they are also giving out enough for simple interests.
They will have an Internet connection. Okay so they need WiFi. There are quite a few places that have free WiFi. McDonalds won't bother you if you hang out there. Plenty of Libraries out there.
Amazon has Music, Movie, and also they have their very own Android App Store (simplified)
And with Internet, you should be able to use all of Googles' free stuff too.
Or am I not understanding what the 'Fire' or all the other tablets from them offer.