For me, I was already to switch over to Lion Server ... until I found out that it no longer supports MySQL. That makes it really hard since I have a lot of php/mysql websites. Installing MySQL is possible, but creates a lot more work to reconfigure things.
Do you honestly think those issues have to do with Apple? It is Adobe being lazy as usual. You can run Lion and Snow Leopard Together using something like Fusion or Parallels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxwebdesigner
One word Adobe!
I think I speak for most designers and developers that issues with Adobe after upgrading to lion. It may sound trivial but after reading the bug issues that adobe reports on its website of "known issues" is enough to keep me from upgrading.
I have things to do that's why I bought a Mac. If I wanted to "trick" the operating system to do what I want it to, I would have bought a PC. I don't have time nor the patients to beta test an operating system that is available for retail.
Nothig personal apple I love yah :-) but I'm sure that others in the design world feel the same way I do. If I'm not mistaken the design market is a fairly large percentage...
I suspect as the article says it's partly the iOS feature-creep that some don't like, along with removal of Rosetta, and perhaps even the lack of Java (although it's auto-installed when needed). Also, I bet quite a high proportion of people are refraining because they don't have access to a high speed connection to download, or simply prefer to have a physical copy of the OS. Paying much more for a USB version isn't going to help matters.
Well no problem with bandwidth here but you hit the nail on the head with Rosetta. I've updated a MacBook to Lion so that I could have a play with it, but I have three other iMacs that are are staying put on Snow Leopard until Apple or a third party provide a solution to being able to run orphaned PPC software. Even then I'd still not be ecstatic with what Lion has done to Spaces but I suppose I could learn to live with it.
I'm in the 84% and will not upgrade until I have no choice when I buy a new machine. The reason is simple - no Rosetta. Dumping a bunch of perfectly functional apps will be costly and inconvenient so I will put that off for as long as possible. Even with a new purchase, I intend to make a boot drive running 10.6 so I can still use those occasional and hard to replace apps.
If anything I think the Required specs weren't high enough. My 2010 MBP is really quite slow on Lion. I did a clean install and everything and sometimes I can literally count to ten before Safari loads a page. Just today I tried switching users three times with the computer seemingly ignoring the clicks, I quit a few apps and then it caught the actions. Honestly unacceptable, i am strongly consider going back to SL, only thing is I do quite like the multi touch gestures, iCloud of course, resume, Airdrop, etc...
It's just too resource hungry... the suggested 4GB of RAM is really ludicrous. When a one year old machine crawls with the new update, either there's a memory leak or a bad decision here and there.
I have Lion installed but have issues with it that almost make me want to roll back to Snow Leopard. One of the biggest problems I have is with Quicktime X, it is not all configurable and it auto pops up any last clips played and remembers the last movies you played (no way to set that easily), won't loop a lot of movies looks like mostly .wmv (yes I have flip4mac) and sometimes won't open movies at all. I don't understand why they let such a crap version of Quicktime go out and won't fix it. Also Safari freaks out on me sometimes and I can't get it to open any webpages (try checking Yahoo mail) and I have to reset it and restart it to get it to work. There are other gripes, I love it though but those issues sometimes make me want to go back to the good ole days. Yes I am mac savvy and have repaired permissions, etc.
.. if you have to re-download you get the latest version without having to reinstall all the updates afterwards, and you still get the ability to burn to disc if you so desire.
I purchased Lion through the app store on my MacBook Pro. So far, I have not had to reinstall. However, every time Apple updates Lion, I get notified that there is an update to the Lion install package sitting on my HD and it wants to download it. All 4+ GBs of it. This is on top of the active Lion installation getting updates through software update.
Sure, I don't have to download the update to the install package but there is no way to set the system to ignore it so the App store is constantly notifying me that a piece of software needs updating. Personally, I much rather have the base install of Lion and then have it go out and get the updates as needed if I reinstall rather than have it want to update a 4+ GB piece of software over and over again that I may actually never need.
I guess most people would consider this a minor issue and if it was any other company I would agree. But for a company like Apple to have such a screwed up system it is inexcusable.
Apple needs to sell Lion on optical media for the same price as the app store. And they need a way to tell the App store to ignore updates on any purchases if a user so chooses.
Bertrand Serlet -> Craig Federighi is looking like a distinct downgrade. But that's probably being unfair, it is pretty clear the A team work on iOS, the B team work on Macintosh software.
The performance of Lion is not so good. They need to concentrate a bit more on fundamentals.
I'm in the 84% and will not upgrade until I have no choice when I buy a new machine. The reason is simple - no Rosetta. Dumping a bunch of perfectly functional apps will be costly and inconvenient so I will put that off for as long as possible. Even with a new purchase, I intend to make a boot drive running 10.6 so I can still use those occasional and hard to replace apps.
Exactly. No Rosetta. Fix that, and most everyone else will switch over. Bad move, Apple.
If anything I think the Required specs weren't high enough. My 2010 MBP is really quite slow on Lion. I did a clean install and everything and sometimes I can literally count to ten before Safari loads a page. Just today I tried switching users three times with the computer seemingly ignoring the clicks, I quit a few apps and then it caught the actions. Honestly unacceptable, i am strongly consider going back to SL, only thing is I do quite like the multi touch gestures, iCloud of course, resume, Airdrop, etc...
It's just too resource hungry... the suggested 4GB of RAM is really ludicrous. When a one year old machine crawls with the new update, either there's a memory leak or a bad decision here and there.
There is definitely a memory leak with Lion, after a few days all 4gig of ram is used and "wired"! Safari is bar far the worst offender
Do you honestly think those issues have to do with Apple? It is Adobe being lazy as usual. You can run Lion and Snow Leopard Together using something like Fusion or Parallels.
All I'm saying is the design world is big with apple. They go hand in hand and it should have been addressed before it was launched "RETAIL" to the public. (Not the beta for developers... that's why they have beta to address this before it goes live)
Not that I like Microsoft but lets just say they came out with a new operating system and just never checked out how Microsoft word or excel worked on the operating system. A pretty big after thought I think.
The point is its live now and it still isn't corrected that's why I haven't updated. That was the question "why havent users updated" and this is my answer.
Sure, I don't have to download the update to the install package but there is no way to set the system to ignore it so the App store is constantly notifying me that a piece of software needs updating.
Go into Mac App Store under Purchased and then click on the litle (x) that appears before Update for Lion's entry.
Frankly, I am not surprised at all by this. Of the six Macs in active use in our household, I have upgraded one (and the other, an MBAir bought a couple of months ago came with it), and I have left the others untouched.
It has all sorts of connectivity issues -- Bluetooth and wifi connectivity has been a mess -- and I am not at all a fan of the autosave crap, now modified with a messy "Unlock, Duplicate....." etc nonsense that pops up (please bring back "Save As", Apple, save me the extra step). I have not used it in Launchpad mode once. And, many types of software I use (e.g., SPSS, Camtasia) are not compatible with it. Xcode has all kinds of issues. I could go on.....
So far, it has been a somewhat marginal, eye-candy, cute-sy, gee-look-we-have-something-new-for-the-sake-of-something-new upgrade for me.
Apple used to charge $129 for a major update. That included a box disk. It provided a single user a license. For a family license, Apple charged $199. Now you get the same caliber of update for $29. If you really need a hard copy, you can get that for $69. This license allows you install the OS on any computer using the same Apple ID. I'd say Apple is being more the generous. For proof, go compare Apple's options to the options Microsoft gives. Apple rocks.
Apple is giving people the price break because it doesn't want to ship physical media. With physical media, Apple has to pay more for shipping, packaging, an handling. Further, it has to price the update high enough for third parties selling the physical media to make some sort of profit. Finally, Apple has to account for unsold inventory every quarter, which negatively effects earnings.
You might be right about the delivery method being an issue for some people, but paying $69 for an update that several years ago people would have happily paid $129 seems a bit silly.
I have absolutely no complaint about the App Store method of upgrading (I thought it was a damn impressive feat), though I do feel the cost of the USB stick is a little high. Of course there are more costs involved in a USB stick, but Lion's going to be around for a few years yet so they've plenty of time to sell them all. Snow Leopard was $29 on DVD iirc. I do agree that it's a great price for Lion to be just $29, though there doesn't seem to be as many features packed into each release as there used to be in the Jaguar - Leopard years. I guess as the OS is becoming more mature, it's becoming more difficult to add unique new features. The majority don't seem to see any thing useful to them in Lion, and so think it's a waste of money to upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
I don't think its any of the complicated reasons. Its the same reason so many people still use XP.
There isn't much motivation to upgrade.
I agree, the only real thing I noticed in Lion is the extra speed. Though many seem to have had slow downs. The Finder is near enough the same as it has been since Panther, albeit with a rather less configurable sidebar. Apple's trying to take the filesystem away from us, but at the same time not really providing a decent way to access files. What the hell use is "All my files" for anyone who's owned a computer for more than a week?
I don't really use any of the other features in Lion, Mission Control is worse than Expose imo, you can't see individual windows of an app as easily. Launchpad is a complete gimmick, I spent more time messing with the different backgrounds I could get through command+option+b than I ever did launching an app through it. Spotlight is much faster as an app launcher. It seems Apple's iOS-ification of OS X isn't going down that well.
I am quite excited by Lion, but I didn't upgrade because Focusrite plug-ins are not compatible with Lion yet, also I am a bit reluctant to lose my PPC games. I guess a lot of people must be delaying the upgrade because of compatibility issues.
Oh well it is almost Christmas, so 'tis the season to kvetch and moan.
Here is my number one gripe with Lion: in the Finder in SL I can see how much disk space i have left. But not on Lion. On one occasion I was without knowing it very close to a full hard drive. I was transferring HD movies to the drive and it failed for lack of HD space. But there was not one warning that it would fail, and not one warning that it had failed. It was not until I looked at the folders some time later that I noticed that there were no files in them.
Now that is just brain dead. Who the hell thought that it was a good idea to take away information on file transfers and hard drive capacity?
The interface is slick and pretty, but a lot of the decisions seem to have been made by people who don't use computers for real tasks.
Snow leopard broke many drivers and apps, so no upgrade
Lion dropped PPC support, obsoleting my apps, so no up-upgrqade
Not interested in sandboxed apps
Not interested in walled garden app store, or giving apple 30% to dumb down apps
Not interested in "single screen" apps or other IOS-ery (IOS needs to move towards OSX, not the other way around)
Leopard is very amenable to Hackintoshery, which I think I'm going to need (Macpros? When?)
Leopard has actual install media... it's like XP, it will live for many, many years
Leopard has everything I need -- seriously, there's no reason to go further at this time.
Leopard is now seeing fixes from the community, since Apple hasn't fixed their bugs after 4 years (invalid console error messages from cron, anyone?)
Virtualization means that I can provide a proper environment for Leopard over the forseeable future in non-native machines.
No need to upgrade.
Apple *could* get me back. They'd have to produce a freaking awesome Macpro to replace my current one, which is still powerful enough for me today (8 cores, 3 ghz, 8 GB ram)... I'd be severely tempted by a four CPU, 24 core, 48 thread machine with lots of memory and PCI lanes/cards/capacity so I can continue enjoying my multiple display antics; and to this, they'd have to add a version of OSX with PPC emulation restored and under which a good number of the apps they broke began to work again. I don't expect any of that, but that's ok... HP makes some awesome hardware suitable for Hackintoshing. Leopard is a terrific OS with everything I love about the Mac pretty well nailed down. Beginning with Snow Leopard, OSX began moving in the wrong direction, and Lion... Lion is just a complete mess. Leopard supports 64-bit data models, that's the key tech that ensures the OS can handle big jobs. 64-bit program space isn't particularly significant.
The screwups with IOS5 don't exactly inspire confidence, either. The wifi sync works under XP, a 10 year old os, but not Leopard? Good job Apple, way to leave 20+% of your users and financial supporters in the cold while sucking up to windows. Not that it's worth much, considering you have to have iTunes on and the iPad plugged in to power for "wireless" sync to work -- lol. And then there are all the apps that crash or won't even start under IOS5, and the power problems, and the bookshelf taking up useless space, and the loss of the Kindle store link in the Kindle app... I don't think the Apple I see today is the Apple I bought my computer from, and that's not a good thing.
Comments
One word Adobe!
I think I speak for most designers and developers that issues with Adobe after upgrading to lion. It may sound trivial but after reading the bug issues that adobe reports on its website of "known issues" is enough to keep me from upgrading.
I have things to do that's why I bought a Mac. If I wanted to "trick" the operating system to do what I want it to, I would have bought a PC. I don't have time nor the patients to beta test an operating system that is available for retail.
Nothig personal apple I love yah :-) but I'm sure that others in the design world feel the same way I do. If I'm not mistaken the design market is a fairly large percentage...
http://www.obxwebdesigner.com
I suspect as the article says it's partly the iOS feature-creep that some don't like, along with removal of Rosetta, and perhaps even the lack of Java (although it's auto-installed when needed). Also, I bet quite a high proportion of people are refraining because they don't have access to a high speed connection to download, or simply prefer to have a physical copy of the OS. Paying much more for a USB version isn't going to help matters.
Well no problem with bandwidth here but you hit the nail on the head with Rosetta. I've updated a MacBook to Lion so that I could have a play with it, but I have three other iMacs that are are staying put on Snow Leopard until Apple or a third party provide a solution to being able to run orphaned PPC software. Even then I'd still not be ecstatic with what Lion has done to Spaces but I suppose I could learn to live with it.
It's just too resource hungry... the suggested 4GB of RAM is really ludicrous. When a one year old machine crawls with the new update, either there's a memory leak or a bad decision here and there.
until Apple or a third party provide a solution to being able to run orphaned PPC software.
.. if you have to re-download you get the latest version without having to reinstall all the updates afterwards, and you still get the ability to burn to disc if you so desire.
I purchased Lion through the app store on my MacBook Pro. So far, I have not had to reinstall. However, every time Apple updates Lion, I get notified that there is an update to the Lion install package sitting on my HD and it wants to download it. All 4+ GBs of it. This is on top of the active Lion installation getting updates through software update.
Sure, I don't have to download the update to the install package but there is no way to set the system to ignore it so the App store is constantly notifying me that a piece of software needs updating. Personally, I much rather have the base install of Lion and then have it go out and get the updates as needed if I reinstall rather than have it want to update a 4+ GB piece of software over and over again that I may actually never need.
I guess most people would consider this a minor issue and if it was any other company I would agree. But for a company like Apple to have such a screwed up system it is inexcusable.
Apple needs to sell Lion on optical media for the same price as the app store. And they need a way to tell the App store to ignore updates on any purchases if a user so chooses.
-kpluck
The performance of Lion is not so good. They need to concentrate a bit more on fundamentals.
I'm in the 84% and will not upgrade until I have no choice when I buy a new machine. The reason is simple - no Rosetta. Dumping a bunch of perfectly functional apps will be costly and inconvenient so I will put that off for as long as possible. Even with a new purchase, I intend to make a boot drive running 10.6 so I can still use those occasional and hard to replace apps.
Exactly. No Rosetta. Fix that, and most everyone else will switch over. Bad move, Apple.
If anything I think the Required specs weren't high enough. My 2010 MBP is really quite slow on Lion. I did a clean install and everything and sometimes I can literally count to ten before Safari loads a page. Just today I tried switching users three times with the computer seemingly ignoring the clicks, I quit a few apps and then it caught the actions. Honestly unacceptable, i am strongly consider going back to SL, only thing is I do quite like the multi touch gestures, iCloud of course, resume, Airdrop, etc...
It's just too resource hungry... the suggested 4GB of RAM is really ludicrous. When a one year old machine crawls with the new update, either there's a memory leak or a bad decision here and there.
There is definitely a memory leak with Lion, after a few days all 4gig of ram is used and "wired"! Safari is bar far the worst offender
Do you honestly think those issues have to do with Apple? It is Adobe being lazy as usual. You can run Lion and Snow Leopard Together using something like Fusion or Parallels.
All I'm saying is the design world is big with apple. They go hand in hand and it should have been addressed before it was launched "RETAIL" to the public. (Not the beta for developers... that's why they have beta to address this before it goes live)
Not that I like Microsoft but lets just say they came out with a new operating system and just never checked out how Microsoft word or excel worked on the operating system. A pretty big after thought I think.
The point is its live now and it still isn't corrected that's why I haven't updated. That was the question "why havent users updated" and this is my answer.
Sure, I don't have to download the update to the install package but there is no way to set the system to ignore it so the App store is constantly notifying me that a piece of software needs updating.
Go into Mac App Store under Purchased and then click on the litle (x) that appears before Update for Lion's entry.
It has all sorts of connectivity issues -- Bluetooth and wifi connectivity has been a mess -- and I am not at all a fan of the autosave crap, now modified with a messy "Unlock, Duplicate....." etc nonsense that pops up (please bring back "Save As", Apple, save me the extra step). I have not used it in Launchpad mode once. And, many types of software I use (e.g., SPSS, Camtasia) are not compatible with it. Xcode has all kinds of issues. I could go on.....
So far, it has been a somewhat marginal, eye-candy, cute-sy, gee-look-we-have-something-new-for-the-sake-of-something-new upgrade for me.
Bottom line: People are not stupid.
Apple used to charge $129 for a major update. That included a box disk. It provided a single user a license. For a family license, Apple charged $199. Now you get the same caliber of update for $29. If you really need a hard copy, you can get that for $69. This license allows you install the OS on any computer using the same Apple ID. I'd say Apple is being more the generous. For proof, go compare Apple's options to the options Microsoft gives. Apple rocks.
Apple is giving people the price break because it doesn't want to ship physical media. With physical media, Apple has to pay more for shipping, packaging, an handling. Further, it has to price the update high enough for third parties selling the physical media to make some sort of profit. Finally, Apple has to account for unsold inventory every quarter, which negatively effects earnings.
You might be right about the delivery method being an issue for some people, but paying $69 for an update that several years ago people would have happily paid $129 seems a bit silly.
I have absolutely no complaint about the App Store method of upgrading (I thought it was a damn impressive feat), though I do feel the cost of the USB stick is a little high. Of course there are more costs involved in a USB stick, but Lion's going to be around for a few years yet so they've plenty of time to sell them all. Snow Leopard was $29 on DVD iirc. I do agree that it's a great price for Lion to be just $29, though there doesn't seem to be as many features packed into each release as there used to be in the Jaguar - Leopard years. I guess as the OS is becoming more mature, it's becoming more difficult to add unique new features. The majority don't seem to see any thing useful to them in Lion, and so think it's a waste of money to upgrade.
I don't think its any of the complicated reasons. Its the same reason so many people still use XP.
There isn't much motivation to upgrade.
I agree, the only real thing I noticed in Lion is the extra speed. Though many seem to have had slow downs. The Finder is near enough the same as it has been since Panther, albeit with a rather less configurable sidebar. Apple's trying to take the filesystem away from us, but at the same time not really providing a decent way to access files. What the hell use is "All my files" for anyone who's owned a computer for more than a week?
I don't really use any of the other features in Lion, Mission Control is worse than Expose imo, you can't see individual windows of an app as easily. Launchpad is a complete gimmick, I spent more time messing with the different backgrounds I could get through command+option+b than I ever did launching an app through it. Spotlight is much faster as an app launcher. It seems Apple's iOS-ification of OS X isn't going down that well.
Here is my number one gripe with Lion: in the Finder in SL I can see how much disk space i have left. But not on Lion. On one occasion I was without knowing it very close to a full hard drive. I was transferring HD movies to the drive and it failed for lack of HD space. But there was not one warning that it would fail, and not one warning that it had failed. It was not until I looked at the folders some time later that I noticed that there were no files in them.
Now that is just brain dead. Who the hell thought that it was a good idea to take away information on file transfers and hard drive capacity?
The interface is slick and pretty, but a lot of the decisions seem to have been made by people who don't use computers for real tasks.
- Snow leopard broke many drivers and apps, so no upgrade
- Lion dropped PPC support, obsoleting my apps, so no up-upgrqade
- Not interested in sandboxed apps
- Not interested in walled garden app store, or giving apple 30% to dumb down apps
- Not interested in "single screen" apps or other IOS-ery (IOS needs to move towards OSX, not the other way around)
- Leopard is very amenable to Hackintoshery, which I think I'm going to need (Macpros? When?)
- Leopard has actual install media... it's like XP, it will live for many, many years
- Leopard has everything I need -- seriously, there's no reason to go further at this time.
- Leopard is now seeing fixes from the community, since Apple hasn't fixed their bugs after 4 years (invalid console error messages from cron, anyone?)
- Virtualization means that I can provide a proper environment for Leopard over the forseeable future in non-native machines.
- No need to upgrade.
Apple *could* get me back. They'd have to produce a freaking awesome Macpro to replace my current one, which is still powerful enough for me today (8 cores, 3 ghz, 8 GB ram)... I'd be severely tempted by a four CPU, 24 core, 48 thread machine with lots of memory and PCI lanes/cards/capacity so I can continue enjoying my multiple display antics; and to this, they'd have to add a version of OSX with PPC emulation restored and under which a good number of the apps they broke began to work again. I don't expect any of that, but that's ok... HP makes some awesome hardware suitable for Hackintoshing. Leopard is a terrific OS with everything I love about the Mac pretty well nailed down. Beginning with Snow Leopard, OSX began moving in the wrong direction, and Lion... Lion is just a complete mess. Leopard supports 64-bit data models, that's the key tech that ensures the OS can handle big jobs. 64-bit program space isn't particularly significant.The screwups with IOS5 don't exactly inspire confidence, either. The wifi sync works under XP, a 10 year old os, but not Leopard? Good job Apple, way to leave 20+% of your users and financial supporters in the cold while sucking up to windows. Not that it's worth much, considering you have to have iTunes on and the iPad plugged in to power for "wireless" sync to work -- lol. And then there are all the apps that crash or won't even start under IOS5, and the power problems, and the bookshelf taking up useless space, and the loss of the Kindle store link in the Kindle app... I don't think the Apple I see today is the Apple I bought my computer from, and that's not a good thing.