Unless Apple's maps have turn-by-turn directions that automatically update to the next location and speak directions, it will be a complete failure and everyone will use this instead.
I think that sums up the argument about a new Maps app in iOS 6.
Are you saying that an article about the assumed Apple mapping system said it will do that?
I'm saying that an article in the Wall Street Journal said, quoting people who worked on the mapping project in the past, that Apple was aiming at solving problems like that, not just make prettier maps.
Let's face it, the 3D is cool and all inasmuch as it allows you to visualize locations better and improve usability. But if I could get the information I need without looking at a map, then 3D is just for show.
I think it's very clever. It's not just pictures from a plane because they are able to process the images and figure out the dimensions of objects.
Well everyone is used to the Google Maps cars, time to get used to the planes Actually with their work on autodrive, I wonder how long until the Google cars start driving themselves around, and airborne drones too for the above.
Mapping bots could become a permanent feature of the cityscape... and they could attach WiFi base stations to them and, and, and... oh wait getting too strategic.
I think it's very clever. It's not just pictures from a plane because they are able to process the images and figure out the dimensions of objects.
Well everyone is used to the Google Maps cars, time to get used to the planes Actually with their work on autodrive, I wonder how long until the Google cars start driving themselves around, and airborne drones too for the above.
Mapping bots could become a permanent feature of the cityscape... and they could attach WiFi base stations to them and, and, and... oh wait getting too strategic.
From what I'm able to determine, Google is running a sophisticated program that extracts 3D data from pictures, which would make this essentially photogrammetry. This is not new, but extracting such detailed models from this information automatically is a bit of a step up. There are significant 3D mesh flaws using such a technique, however. Just take a close look at some of the details on their models versus the C3 models.
Where are you getting your information on normal use? On my Galaxy Nexus (yes, I have an Android phone) I use turn by turn navigation a couple times a week. I never use street view because navigation lets me watch the road and simply listen to prompts. Plus, the street view image of your destination is shown when you're close enough to see the building. If Apple builds in turn by turn navigation into iOS maps, you'll quickly realize that it is the key feature to any mobile maps application.
+1
To the average person, turn-by-turn is immensely useful. And I'd argue that it was one of the key factors in helping Android gain popularity. Until Google Maps Navigation came along, companies like Nokia would charge for map packs, etc. Google made Navigation a standard feature and is utterly decimating the standalone GPS market. It's forced Nokia to make Nokia Drive free. MS followed with turn-by-turn on Windows Phone with Bing Maps for free. And now it's Apple's turns.
And yeah, once you have it, you can't go back. Tom Tom app is nice. But there's nothing like an integrated maps app.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat@me
Nokia and Navteq have been doing everything that Google just announced. They have 3D maps, Offline usage on mobile, Turn by Turn, Routing, etc. Seems like Google was trying to pre-empt the Apple announcement and play some catch up to Nokia/Navteq
+1
To be fair, (if I'm not mistaken) Nokia doesn't cache a local area, they let you download map packs. That does take up space on the phone. Being able to simply save the map of an area you are in is pretty handy. I travelled to Europe last summer and did just that. Simply downloaded the map for the 10 square miles of the area I was in, on wifi, before leaving the hotel.
The one benefit about Google Maps though is universal service. Nokia maps is pretty much terrible outside Europe and a few urban centres. I live in a condo that's 5 years old in Ottawa. Doesn't show up on Nokia Maps. And there's no way Nokia Maps will give you transit directions on the suburban rail and bus network in Mumbai, like Google Maps did for me, on vacation this past Christmas. Navigation on transit is actually pretty decent feature, especially if you're in an unfamiliar place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
Well he was just responding to standard response 358 out of iphone handbook
"Android is just ripping off "insert feature" from iOS"
On another note, at the end of the day. To the NORMAL person (90% of iphone buyers, those that have never even heard of what an A5 chip is) buying an iphone, the fact of the matter is if the mapping app that comes with the phone is good enough (gives turn by turn and tell you where the nearest gas station is), they will never use anything else. Apple know that. They don't NEED to map out the inside of every shopping mall. All of those are awesome features to have, but unless you ever used an android phone you won't even know it exists, and hence wouldn't care about it.
Bottom line, Apple releases a 'good enough app' that does its PRIMARY function (get you from point A to point , they win.
I mostly agree with this. To simply retain their customers, basic map functionality is good enough. I would actually suggest that Apple may even avoid turn-by-turn functionality just so they don't kill off sales for navigation apps (and the cut they get).
I would disagree though that users aren't going to find out added features on Google Maps. You forget that lots of people do use Google Maps on their desktop. The mobile function is an extension of that. You can be sure, they'll be exposed to whatever Google is cooking up on maps.
I'm curious to see Apple's solution. Native maps is one of my three requirements for me to consider moving from Android to the iPhone (the other two being a bigger screen and support for my carrier). Google Maps with Navigation is amazing. Not just for the car turn-by-turn stuff. I use Transit directions a ton. I'm curious to see what Apple does for directions, points of interest, turn-by-turn navigation, transit directions, etc. 3D Maps? Meh. Nice aesthetic gimmick I suppose.
uhhhh.....first of all, how can you me too a product that doesn't exist. Matter of fact, Apple very much seems to be me-tooing google maps. kinda like Samsung making an iphone knock-off with a few extra features, at the end of the day, its still a knock off. Sad apple feel they need to, but hey, whatever. BUt also remember
1. Google mpas has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
2. This 3d isn't a bird eye view still pic, it can be rotated and interacted with, like a a game.
3. Content. Just the content from street view alone (streets, ski slopes, mountain treks, indoor buildings) would take apple years to do. Satellites and planes are all well and good, but even they can't give you mountain treks and indoor maps.
4. Lets not forget google sky and google ocean as well. They aren't just mapping cities, They are mapping the world, and by google sky, mapping the universe.
Now, having said all this. What does the typical mobile maps user need?
Space maps? No
Ocean Maps? No
3d maps? cool to have, but no
street view of a back corner of a shady town part of vietnam? No
Turn by turn? yes
driving Routes? yes
biking routes? yes
traffic? yes
train, buses and walking routes? Yes
If apple just manage to focus on these five very basic things which most mapping services already do equally well (more or less at least in major cities) they should be fine. Everything else are cool things to have that you will never use in a mobile situation.
OK. If you say so. Why do you think Google rushed this announcement right before Apple's WWDC?
Because Google is about to lose over half of their mobile map users.
Apples been working on their maps for 4+ years, Google hear about what is involved release another "preview" which is really just a slapped together "gotta be first" mess. This is Googles problem, previewing stuff before its ready and making it look better than it really is. Cant wait til their glasses are released and show they are nothing like what they have amped them up to be. Should spend a bit less money getting famous people to wear them and more money on development and usability.
Apples been working on their maps for 4+ years, Google hear about what is involved release another "preview" which is really just a slapped together "gotta be first" mess. This is Googles problem, previewing stuff before its ready and making it look better than it really is. Cant wait til their glasses are released and show they are nothing like what they have amped them up to be. Should spend a bit less money getting famous people to wear them and more money on development and usability.
Can someone remind me of an example of a company throwing together a half-assed presentation or product to beat out Apple that ended up actually working out for them?
I can recall in 2009 of the rampant Apple tablet rumours that seem to lead to an excessive number of tablets at CES that were almost unanimously canned after Apple introduced the iPad. I can recall in 2009 Palm rushing to get the unfinished Pre on shelves for June 6th, just before the iPhone. But I can't recall any success stories from "me first" releases.
Can someone remind me of an example of a company throwing together a half-assed presentation or product to beat out Apple that ended up actually working out for them?
Samsung's in the process of doing it with a bunch of products, each of which is discontinued about six months later. They seem to have some marketshare.
I'll let you know how that works out for them in the long run.
You know... I have watched the Google presentation here...
... and I must say that I have developed a greater appreciation for their history, what they have done and what they are working on for the future. I wish them well.
It's just too bad that because of business reasons they have to go at it alone with the exception of user created maps. They'll have to duplicate efforts that could have been collaborated with others.
I think the open source model is better because many large corporations can use and contribute information while still benefiting financially.
For example, I think the C3 technology is faster and more accurate for the 3D mapping.
Google's 3D effort and resources could be applied to other mapping layers or to augment and speed up other efforts in a BSD type open source model. I hope Apple and others (including Google) can work together to greatly and quickly enhance OpenStreetMaps to cover the world and the universe.
Can someone remind me of an example of a company throwing together a half-assed presentation or product to beat out Apple that ended up actually working out for them?
I can recall in 2009 of the rampant Apple tablet rumours that seem to lead to an excessive number of tablets at CES that were almost unanimously canned after Apple introduced the iPad. I can recall in 2009 Palm rushing to get the unfinished Pre on shelves for June 6th, just before the iPhone. But I can't recall any success stories from "me first" releases.
Well this is an enhancement to an existing product not a new product.
The big message here seems not to be the 3D (which I assume is pretty similar to what Apple will announce next week) but just how difficult maps are to make. The history of Google Maps had some huge numbers such as 20 petabytes of imagery and 5 million miles of street view. It took Google years to get the maps to their current state and shows what an enormous task Apple is undertaking to create a competing service.
Well this is an enhancement to an existing product not a new product.
The big message here seems not to be the 3D (which I assume is pretty similar to what Apple will announce next week) but just how difficult maps are to make. The history of Google Maps had some huge numbers such as 20 petabytes of imagery and 5 million miles of street view. It took Google years to get the maps to their current state and shows what an enormous task Apple is undertaking to create a competing service.
Apple has a huge advantage because of the C3 Technology.
From 500 meters in the air, they can get accuracy to 10 cm on the grown. They can also cover 100 square km in about an hour.
These stats are from SAAB and may have been improved by Apple. Check it out...
Well this is an enhancement to an existing product not a new product.
The big message here seems not to be the 3D (which I assume is pretty similar to what Apple will announce next week) but just how difficult maps are to make. The history of Google Maps had some huge numbers such as 20 petabytes of imagery and 5 million miles of street view. It took Google years to get the maps to their current state and shows what an enormous task Apple is undertaking to create a competing service.
Apple has a huge advantage because of the C3 Technology.
From 500 meters in the air, they can get accuracy to 10 cm on the grown. They can also cover 100 square km in about an hour. They also have an automated process to generate more consistent 3D maps.
These stats are from SAAB and may have been improved by Apple. Check it out...
Comments
Unless Apple's maps have turn-by-turn directions that automatically update to the next location and speak directions, it will be a complete failure and everyone will use this instead.
I think that sums up the argument about a new Maps app in iOS 6.
Are you saying that an article about the assumed Apple mapping system said it will do that?
I'm saying that an article in the Wall Street Journal said, quoting people who worked on the mapping project in the past, that Apple was aiming at solving problems like that, not just make prettier maps.
Let's face it, the 3D is cool and all inasmuch as it allows you to visualize locations better and improve usability. But if I could get the information I need without looking at a map, then 3D is just for show.
Is that Barbara Striesand's house?
I think it's very clever. It's not just pictures from a plane because they are able to process the images and figure out the dimensions of objects.
Well everyone is used to the Google Maps cars, time to get used to the planes
Mapping bots could become a permanent feature of the cityscape... and they could attach WiFi base stations to them and, and, and... oh wait getting too strategic.
Apple's (C3's) maps look more detailed and more sophisticated because they are based off of LIDAR data. Far more information than Google's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulldecent
Is that Barbara Striesand's house?
Is she pointing a weapon at the Google plane?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I think it's very clever. It's not just pictures from a plane because they are able to process the images and figure out the dimensions of objects.
Well everyone is used to the Google Maps cars, time to get used to the planes
Mapping bots could become a permanent feature of the cityscape... and they could attach WiFi base stations to them and, and, and... oh wait getting too strategic.
From what I'm able to determine, Google is running a sophisticated program that extracts 3D data from pictures, which would make this essentially photogrammetry. This is not new, but extracting such detailed models from this information automatically is a bit of a step up. There are significant 3D mesh flaws using such a technique, however. Just take a close look at some of the details on their models versus the C3 models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance
Where are you getting your information on normal use? On my Galaxy Nexus (yes, I have an Android phone) I use turn by turn navigation a couple times a week. I never use street view because navigation lets me watch the road and simply listen to prompts. Plus, the street view image of your destination is shown when you're close enough to see the building. If Apple builds in turn by turn navigation into iOS maps, you'll quickly realize that it is the key feature to any mobile maps application.
+1
To the average person, turn-by-turn is immensely useful. And I'd argue that it was one of the key factors in helping Android gain popularity. Until Google Maps Navigation came along, companies like Nokia would charge for map packs, etc. Google made Navigation a standard feature and is utterly decimating the standalone GPS market. It's forced Nokia to make Nokia Drive free. MS followed with turn-by-turn on Windows Phone with Bing Maps for free. And now it's Apple's turns.
And yeah, once you have it, you can't go back. Tom Tom app is nice. But there's nothing like an integrated maps app.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat@me
Nokia and Navteq have been doing everything that Google just announced. They have 3D maps, Offline usage on mobile, Turn by Turn, Routing, etc. Seems like Google was trying to pre-empt the Apple announcement and play some catch up to Nokia/Navteq
+1
To be fair, (if I'm not mistaken) Nokia doesn't cache a local area, they let you download map packs. That does take up space on the phone. Being able to simply save the map of an area you are in is pretty handy. I travelled to Europe last summer and did just that. Simply downloaded the map for the 10 square miles of the area I was in, on wifi, before leaving the hotel.
The one benefit about Google Maps though is universal service. Nokia maps is pretty much terrible outside Europe and a few urban centres. I live in a condo that's 5 years old in Ottawa. Doesn't show up on Nokia Maps. And there's no way Nokia Maps will give you transit directions on the suburban rail and bus network in Mumbai, like Google Maps did for me, on vacation this past Christmas. Navigation on transit is actually pretty decent feature, especially if you're in an unfamiliar place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
Well he was just responding to standard response 358 out of iphone handbook
"Android is just ripping off "insert feature" from iOS"
On another note, at the end of the day. To the NORMAL person (90% of iphone buyers, those that have never even heard of what an A5 chip is) buying an iphone, the fact of the matter is if the mapping app that comes with the phone is good enough (gives turn by turn and tell you where the nearest gas station is), they will never use anything else. Apple know that. They don't NEED to map out the inside of every shopping mall. All of those are awesome features to have, but unless you ever used an android phone you won't even know it exists, and hence wouldn't care about it.
Bottom line, Apple releases a 'good enough app' that does its PRIMARY function (get you from point A to point
I mostly agree with this. To simply retain their customers, basic map functionality is good enough. I would actually suggest that Apple may even avoid turn-by-turn functionality just so they don't kill off sales for navigation apps (and the cut they get).
I would disagree though that users aren't going to find out added features on Google Maps. You forget that lots of people do use Google Maps on their desktop. The mobile function is an extension of that. You can be sure, they'll be exposed to whatever Google is cooking up on maps.
I'm curious to see Apple's solution. Native maps is one of my three requirements for me to consider moving from Android to the iPhone (the other two being a bigger screen and support for my carrier). Google Maps with Navigation is amazing. Not just for the car turn-by-turn stuff. I use Transit directions a ton. I'm curious to see what Apple does for directions, points of interest, turn-by-turn navigation, transit directions, etc. 3D Maps? Meh. Nice aesthetic gimmick I suppose.
3D is nice, but C3 looks better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub
They used an iPad and it still crashed 4 times. Had they used an android tablet the damn thing probably wouldn't have even executed.
They showed it on iPad more likely because:
They don't want to alienate iOS users
They want iOS users to know this is coming - Android users will be getting this by default, bundled in OS update
Number of iPads is, at present, still dwarfing number of Android tablets
"I agree...But people really thought (think?) Siri is AI and had some seriously Star Trek esque high hopes for it."
It still a beta...why are you talking about Siri like it has been out for years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
uhhhh.....first of all, how can you me too a product that doesn't exist. Matter of fact, Apple very much seems to be me-tooing google maps. kinda like Samsung making an iphone knock-off with a few extra features, at the end of the day, its still a knock off. Sad apple feel they need to, but hey, whatever. BUt also remember
1. Google mpas has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
2. This 3d isn't a bird eye view still pic, it can be rotated and interacted with, like a a game.
3. Content. Just the content from street view alone (streets, ski slopes, mountain treks, indoor buildings) would take apple years to do. Satellites and planes are all well and good, but even they can't give you mountain treks and indoor maps.
4. Lets not forget google sky and google ocean as well. They aren't just mapping cities, They are mapping the world, and by google sky, mapping the universe.
Now, having said all this. What does the typical mobile maps user need?
Space maps? No
Ocean Maps? No
3d maps? cool to have, but no
street view of a back corner of a shady town part of vietnam? No
Turn by turn? yes
driving Routes? yes
biking routes? yes
traffic? yes
train, buses and walking routes? Yes
If apple just manage to focus on these five very basic things which most mapping services already do equally well (more or less at least in major cities) they should be fine. Everything else are cool things to have that you will never use in a mobile situation.
OK. If you say so. Why do you think Google rushed this announcement right before Apple's WWDC?
Because Google is about to lose over half of their mobile map users.
Time will tell.
Apples been working on their maps for 4+ years, Google hear about what is involved release another "preview" which is really just a slapped together "gotta be first" mess. This is Googles problem, previewing stuff before its ready and making it look better than it really is. Cant wait til their glasses are released and show they are nothing like what they have amped them up to be. Should spend a bit less money getting famous people to wear them and more money on development and usability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoadm
Apples been working on their maps for 4+ years, Google hear about what is involved release another "preview" which is really just a slapped together "gotta be first" mess. This is Googles problem, previewing stuff before its ready and making it look better than it really is. Cant wait til their glasses are released and show they are nothing like what they have amped them up to be. Should spend a bit less money getting famous people to wear them and more money on development and usability.
Google is really becoming Microsoft.
I can recall in 2009 of the rampant Apple tablet rumours that seem to lead to an excessive number of tablets at CES that were almost unanimously canned after Apple introduced the iPad. I can recall in 2009 Palm rushing to get the unfinished Pre on shelves for June 6th, just before the iPhone. But I can't recall any success stories from "me first" releases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Can someone remind me of an example of a company throwing together a half-assed presentation or product to beat out Apple that ended up actually working out for them?
Samsung's in the process of doing it with a bunch of products, each of which is discontinued about six months later. They seem to have some marketshare.
I'll let you know how that works out for them in the long run.
You know... I have watched the Google presentation here...
... and I must say that I have developed a greater appreciation for their history, what they have done and what they are working on for the future. I wish them well.
It's just too bad that because of business reasons they have to go at it alone with the exception of user created maps. They'll have to duplicate efforts that could have been collaborated with others.
I think the open source model is better because many large corporations can use and contribute information while still benefiting financially.
For example, I think the C3 technology is faster and more accurate for the 3D mapping.
Google's 3D effort and resources could be applied to other mapping layers or to augment and speed up other efforts in a BSD type open source model. I hope Apple and others (including Google) can work together to greatly and quickly enhance OpenStreetMaps to cover the world and the universe.
This is a big job that requires collaboration.
Time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Can someone remind me of an example of a company throwing together a half-assed presentation or product to beat out Apple that ended up actually working out for them?
I can recall in 2009 of the rampant Apple tablet rumours that seem to lead to an excessive number of tablets at CES that were almost unanimously canned after Apple introduced the iPad. I can recall in 2009 Palm rushing to get the unfinished Pre on shelves for June 6th, just before the iPhone. But I can't recall any success stories from "me first" releases.
Well this is an enhancement to an existing product not a new product.
The big message here seems not to be the 3D (which I assume is pretty similar to what Apple will announce next week) but just how difficult maps are to make. The history of Google Maps had some huge numbers such as 20 petabytes of imagery and 5 million miles of street view. It took Google years to get the maps to their current state and shows what an enormous task Apple is undertaking to create a competing service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
Well this is an enhancement to an existing product not a new product.
The big message here seems not to be the 3D (which I assume is pretty similar to what Apple will announce next week) but just how difficult maps are to make. The history of Google Maps had some huge numbers such as 20 petabytes of imagery and 5 million miles of street view. It took Google years to get the maps to their current state and shows what an enormous task Apple is undertaking to create a competing service.
Apple has a huge advantage because of the C3 Technology.
From 500 meters in the air, they can get accuracy to 10 cm on the grown. They can also cover 100 square km in about an hour.
These stats are from SAAB and may have been improved by Apple. Check it out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNemPTHOKWg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
Well this is an enhancement to an existing product not a new product.
The big message here seems not to be the 3D (which I assume is pretty similar to what Apple will announce next week) but just how difficult maps are to make. The history of Google Maps had some huge numbers such as 20 petabytes of imagery and 5 million miles of street view. It took Google years to get the maps to their current state and shows what an enormous task Apple is undertaking to create a competing service.
Apple has a huge advantage because of the C3 Technology.
From 500 meters in the air, they can get accuracy to 10 cm on the grown. They can also cover 100 square km in about an hour. They also have an automated process to generate more consistent 3D maps.
These stats are from SAAB and may have been improved by Apple. Check it out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNemPTHOKWg